Johnny, I appreciate the thought, but there are over 1500 pins on this board
and soldering them all would be a major undertaking in itself... I don't
have a wave soldering machine ;)
The first error flagged today is on D1 CA 3, the Command Register A bit 3.
Scope loops definitely identify this bus as trouble and it's part of the
disk address register too.
The command register is two 'LS174 hex D-flops, and it drives the input of a
'165 shift register (disk address) and the input of an 8234 (2-1
multiplexer/driver) back onto the data bus, and that's it. Should be
simple... ha!
The voltage on that output pin will go up and down as set by the loop until
the board is flexed - then it will wander up to around 1-2 volts (measured
at the pin with a DIP clip).
However, I measured its ability to drive a 510 ohm load to 3.5 volts, and
sink at least 10 ma (measured directly) staying below 0.8 volts. And the
inputs to those two gates can be pulled to 0 with only a fraction of a
milliamp, and go high when the driving D-flop is disconnected! I couldn't
reproduce the problem while flexing the board either, but then I'd need
three or four hands.
So I changed the LS174 anyway. No luck - the card passes diagnostics until
the board is flexed. All three of those chips are in the same general area
of the board, too.
Close inspection of the driven '165 shows a lot of black oxidation on its
pins... don't those tend to grow crud inside the package and cause problems
too?
But... read on ;)
After perusing the schematic several more times this evening, I found one
more place I'd overlooked where D1 CA 3 (the "flaky" line) connects... to an
AND gate E96 in the center of the card, that has a solderable jumper for
RL01/02. I had moved that jumper to RL01 for testing by another member (as
that is the drive he has), and back to RL02 when I got the card back from
him.
Lo and behold, underneath that piece of wire was a tiny solder whisker, at
the moment shorting the CA 3 line to (something else?) but it was definitely
continuity to another trace.
Don't know how long that whisker might have been there, quite possibly from
before I changed it for the test!
Anyway I cleared it, and I've flexed the board numerous times while running
AJRLAC controller diagnostic, and made 8 passes without an error. So far so
good.
So I connected the drives, booted up SerialDisk and can read their
directories (only C & D, but that's a PIP version problem that I corrected
on my RL02 image).
Drives seem to be working :) ... of course R20A: (the SYS directory) is
clobbered, so I'll have to remake the pack with my known-good image, but I
was able to format the pack in Drive 1 without errors. Even wiggling the
board several times. Now I'm running read/write tests (AJRLIA.DG) on Drive
1. No errors so far after two ten-minute passes :)
THIS time maybe I really got it... CA 3 is the 4th bit of course where all
the problems were occurring. Will let it run for a while longer.
David Gesswein just sent me a version of dumprest for RL that he's just
written, modified for my Omni-USB port at 40/41.
If that works I'll be able to upload an entire RL02 in about 2 minutes
instead of 3 hours with vtserver...
-Charles
Jay, Mike, John,
Thanks for the helpful information. It just dawned onto me that these were
"write once" PROMs, not modern EEPROMs. Duh. So you get one shot at doing it
right...
The Data I/Os on ebay seem to be quite a bit more than $100 right now, I'll
keep looking. I guess none of the modern ebay Chinese ones would do? Also
where can you get the blanks? Any modern equivalents here too?
Marc
-------------------------
Jay West wrote:
The Data I/O 29B works perfectly for those old fusable link proms.
John Robertson wrote:
One can pick up a Data I/O 29B and Unipak II off eBay starting around
$100USD (ish). There is a very good support group on yahoo groups:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Data_IO_EPROM
Mike Loewen wrote:
I used a Data I/O 29B programmer to burn the PROMs, with a Unipak 2B.
The blank PROMs were variously Signetics N82S141, MMI 6341-1 and National
74S474. Along with the 12821A HP-IB board, you also need a Boot Loader
PROM, 12992H (12992-80004). The boot loader PROM is a Signetics N82S129 or
equivalent. For installation information about the firmware PROMs, see
manual 12791-90001 (HP 1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and
Reference Manual). For boot loader information, see manual 12792-90001 (HP
12992 Loader ROMs Installation Manual).
------------------------
I know this is a pretty long shot, but does anyone happen to have any service or maintenance manuals on the DG 6050 disk drive that have a procedure for adjusting the servo control circuit board? Or does anyone know anything about doing this? Thanks
> From: Johnny Billquist
> Early DMA controllers were all multiple cards, so having their own
> dedicated backplanes were a pretty sane idea.
Well, there was also that large intermediate generation which still had their
own backplanes, but they were 'system unit' (for lack of a defined term for
this form factor) backplanes (e.g. RK11-D, RH11, etc), which fit into e.g. a
BA11-K, along with other 'generic' UNIBUS backplanes (i.e. DD11-C, etc).
That first generation I spoke of (the one with backplanes that mounted
directly in H960's) are marked by the use of lots of small Flip Chip cards,
not the larger quad/hex boards that one finds in the 'second generation'
(above). I guess the larger board versions were cheaper to manufacture, which
is why they got rid of the first generation ones in favour of the second
generation (which were often functionally identical to the first-generation
ones they replaced, e.g. RK11-C and -D).
Those first-generation one used very similar construction technique to the
KA10 generation of machines, which also used that size Flip Chip (although a
different series, mostly with individual transistors), and heavier wire on the
bacplanes. What did KI10's use, does anyone know? I have this bit set that
they used roughly the same kind of Flip Chips as the 'first generation' PDP-11
DMA devices, but I've never seen a KI in person.
Noel
As a result of remodeling my house, I now have less space for the
collection and need to thin it out a bit. The following items are
free for pick-up in the Los Angeles area. Priority will be given to
the first person who will take everything. Almost all of these are
"portables" so it isn't that much volume. Some work; some don't and
are projects. The Seequa (dual DOS-CP/M unit) and Access Matrix
"Actrix" could be very cool pieces if brought into working condition.
1. Seequa Chameleon Plus: Powers up; no video - otherwise in
nice condition
2. Corona ATP: Works, boots off floppy to MS-DOS 2.11 disc
(included) - nice condition
3. Sanyo MBC-775: Powers up, no video; though external RCA video
works - shows boot error in ROM - nice condition
4. Sanyo MBC-675: Works - missing one floppy drive - boots off
floppy (not included) to MS-DOS 2.11, broken foot - rough condition
5. Access Matrix - Actrix: Powers up, video good, floppy drive B:
cycles and won't boot (comes with case, manual and software)
6. Sony SMC-70G Genlocker: Works (tested RCA out), asks for
system disk
7. NEC PowerMate Portable SX: powers up, no video, possible HDD
crash based on screeching noise
8. Kaypro II: Lights flash on floppy drives, no video, constant
beeping noise in sync with flashing floppy drive lights
9. Kaypro 2X: Works - boots to screen asking for disk (seem to
recall that one of the floppy drives may need realignment)
Please PM me if you are interested.
> From: Ethan Dicks
> That looks like a great haul.
We're talking about the guy on eBay whom I posted a pointer to a couple of
days back, the one with large lots of QBUS CPUs, memory, DLV11s, etc?
> I hope they are working cards.
All the ones I've gotten from the guy above which I was able to test (couldn't
test, e.g. the RK05 cards 'cause I don't have a working RK05 yet) were OK -
QBUS memory, 11/23's, etc.
Noel
was it a 160 or a 160A?
Ed#
In a message dated 9/6/2015 9:13:38 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
coryheisterkamp at gmail.com writes:
I'd be curious, too. I was *this close* to throwing in a bid seeing as
this turned up within driving distance...until I was politely reminded that I
have a few other projects around here. The coffee can of 'spare parts' also
gave me pause. -C
On Sep 5, 2015, at 9:08 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
> On 9/5/2015 7:10 PM, william degnan wrote:
>> Anyone here get the Control Data 160 (Ebay 252070822992)? I must admit
>> time, money, and space aside I would love to have had this one! (I have
>> the manuals at least)
>>
>
> I would not be terribly surprised if that auction result flushed out one
> or two more. Ya never know.
>
> JRJ
>
> From: Holm Tiffe
> Sorry, I couldn't find a mailing about Schematics for the KDJ11-AA,
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-September/011849.html
> I've read that you got some documentation and want to scan it, 600dpi
> with some TIFF compression or so.. that's all.
Well, now I'm really confused, because AFAIK the message that talked about
the 600dpi and TIFF is the same one that thas the URL for the FMPS. So I
don't understand how you don't have them. Oh well.
> No, I'm not reading every singe mailing from that list.
I don't either - there's often too much. But I do read everything that looks
like it could be DEC-related, and most of the other stuff too (it's kind of
fun to read about the really old machines, etc).
Noel
> we now have the 11/73 prints, which I will be scanning Real Soon Now.
OK, done:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/MP01890_KDJ11-A_Jan84.pdf
Can the appropriate people please download this to all the right places
(e.g. repositories)?
Don't be misled by the svelte 1.5MB size; they were scanned at 600dpi, and
there is a _ton_ of resolution in there (you can go way past the '100%'
setting on Adobe Reader without getting pixellation).
The originals were in really rough shape (torn, written on, etc), but I think
the results are fully legible. I looked quickly, and found a couple of issues,
where there was writing which obscured things on the scans, and fixed the
images manually to show what's on the original prints. However, I didn't have
the energy to look at every detail of every page, so if something comes up
un-readable, let me know, and I'll issue a fixed set.
(There are some places which aren't legible, e.g. lower right pins of E9 on
K3, but the original prints aren't legible there either, so there's nothing I
can do about that; it's possible to work out what the pin numbers are,
though.)
And a _HUGE_ 'Thank You' to Paul Anderson for lending me the print set so I
could scan them for everyone!
> That does leave us needing the 11/83/84 CPU prints, so if anyone has a
> set...
Can I repeat my appeal for these? They are for the KDJ11-B (M8190). With this
board being so recent, surely someone must have a set? I'd be happy to do the
work of scanning them, if someone has originals but isn't up to the scanning
part.
Noel
So I have one of these Mostek memory cards, and it was non-functional, and a
Google didn't reveal _anything_ online about them.
The fault was a couple of picked bits, so I started off tracing the signal
paths for those bits from the bus fingers, to the transceivers, to an octal
latch, etc - and then it dawned on me that this card has two banks (i.e. it
has a 9x4 array of xx64 64Kx1 chips; i.e. to provide 16 bits wide plus byte
parity, there are two groups of 18 chips), and one bank was picking, and the
other was not. So that meant that data paths were all OK, it was a simple
matter of finding some bad memory chips.
(It turns out that diagnostic heuristic is quite useful, since many PDP-11
semiconductor memory cards have two banks of xxKx1 chips; so if you have
dropped/picked bits, look to see if both banks have the same fault. If 'no',
it's pretty much guaranteed to be a memory chip, and it should be easy to
find. I just fixed for someone an M8044 with this failure mode, without doing
any hardware debugging at all; the symptoms, and the prints, were all I
needed.)
There was nothing to indicate which banks/bits were where on the MK8022, but
by pulling memory chips (luckily, they were socketed, so this was pretty
painless), I managed to work it out (unlike many memory cards, it's not
semi-random). For reference for others, here it is:
Low bank:
01 - H1
...
0200 - H8
0400 - E1
...
0100000 - E8
High bank:
01 - F1
...
0200 - F8
0400 - D1
...
0100000 - D8
D-H9 seem to be parity.
If anyone has one of these cards, and it's busted and they're not up to
dealing with it, let me know. Depending on the failure mode, I _may_ be
able to help (no documentation of any kind, after all...)
Noel
