test-drb

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

101090 discussions

by rcini＠msn.com

Allison: >>the mod was to bring out ras* cas* and MUX* with terminating resistors at one or both ends. These signals went through the EI cable but timing was critical at best. the later EIs derived cas* and mux* off of ras* inside rather than pipe them over. Generally speaking the mod was one where if it was mostly working it MIGHT help, sometimes it made it worse. There was another mod after that called the buffered EI cable...not a good idea either. Fixing the EI was the solution.<< One of the two units that I have has the mod and the other doesn't. The one without came with the buffered EI cable, so what you said makes sense. Thanks for the info; now I can trace the mod on the new schematics. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking

28 years, 5 months

Datamaster troubles

by rcini＠msn.com

Philip: Thanks for the error codes. I have no manuals for the Datamaster, so I'm flying blind. The code "09" is inverse-blinking, so there is a real problem. I'll try to pull the chips and re-seat them. The machine worked last summer and wasn't used since then, so I can't imagine the chip going like that. Thanks again for the help. I'll let you know what I find. My company has a UK office (Burdale-Holdings, a trade finance company). If I do need a new chip, maybe we could arrange it so that you could drop it off at our London office (if you're near it) and they could send it to me. ------------------------ Rich Cini/WUGNET - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCPS Windows 95/Networking Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 09:05:06 BST From: Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Datamaster troubles Message-ID: <9706158689.AA868982856(a)compsci.powertech.co.uk> Rich Cini wrote: > Well, I'm reviving my Datamaster. Last year, it worked fine (I at least > could get into Basic). This year, I can't even get it to boot. I have no > manuals for the darned thing, so I have no idea what the numbers on the screen > during the POST mean. I have one reverse-highlighted number: "09" and I'm > assuming that this is a hardware failure code. As promised, I have hunted through my various IBM System/23 (Datamaster) manuals, and found the meanings of the POD (Power-on Diagnostics) error codes. Here is a summary: FF} 00} CPU Failure (!) 01} 02 Failure of first ROS module (Read Only Storage module, i.e. ROM chip) 03 Reserved. If this is highlighted, panic. 04 Failure in bottom 16k of storage, or of storage controller 05 CRT (presumably actually monitor) or DMA failure 06} CRT interface 07} 08 Page registers 09-} ROS failure. There follows a little diagram to tell you which chip 19 } to replace. Yes, the diagram in the manual is made of text, too. ** TOP VIEW OF PLANAR SEEN FROM THE REAR ** _______________________________________________ | ====== ====== <-- NOT FOUND ON | | | 10 | | 11 | <-- SOME EARLY | | =3=40= =3=60= <-- MACHINES | | | | ====== ====== | | | 19 | | 0D | | | =7=60= =1=60= | | *********************** | | =PATCH= ====== * PHYSICAL LOCATION * | | | 18 | | 0C | * OF ROS MODULES * | | =7=40== =1=40= * FOR EACH ERROR CODE * | | *********************** | | ====== ====== | | | 17 | | 0B | -KEY- | | =6=60= =0=60= ====== | | | XX | | | ====== ====== =Y=ZZ= | | | 16 | | 0A | XX=POD ERROR CODE | | =6=40= =0=40= Y=ROS PAGE VALUE | | ZZ=HIGH ORDER BYTE OF | | ====== ====== FIRST ADDRESS IN | | | 15 | | 09 | ROS MODULE. | | =5=60= =0=20= | | ---(CABLE)-------------- | | ====== ====== | ====== | | | | 14 | | 02 | | | 09 | CO-PLANAR | | | =5=40= =0=00= | =0=20= BOARD. | | | | (FOUND ON | | | ====== | ====== SOME EARLY | | | | 13 | | | 10 | MACHINES.) | | | =4=60= | =3=40= | | | | | | | ====== | ====== | | | | 12 | | | 11 | | | | =4=40= | =3=60= | | | ------------------------ | ----------------------------------------------- 1A-} ROS failure on feature card 26 } 27 ROS failure on 2nd printer card 28} ROS failure on feature card 29} 2A-} RAM failure. Table (which I shan't include) of how codes 30 } relate to different sizes of machine. 31 RAM page access failure 32 DMA page register failure 33 Interrupt controller failure 34 Timer interrupt failure 35 Keyboard error. If flashing, keyboard controller. If not flashing, you pressed a key at the wrong moment :-) 36 Printer failure 37 Printer not switched on 38 Diskette attachment failure 39 24 volt rail not reading 24 volts 3A-} belong to add-ons not to the system. I didn't bring the FE } relevant manual pages. General rules for interpretation: Flashing inverse video = fatal error. Non-flashing inverse video = error. Press the Error-reset key and let the machine finish booting. Then run the diagnostics dikette, I suppose. To summarise, it appears you have a dud ROM chip. I imagine the solution is to copy a ROM chip from another Datamaster. If necessary, I can arrange to copy mine, but I don't know off-hand what sort of chips they are. I would also suggest that, unless you too are in England, logistics of getting the chip to you might be hard... Philip. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Philip Belben <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Das Feuer brennt, das Feuer nennt die Luft sein Schwesterelement - und frisst sie doch (samt dem Ozon)! Das ist die Liebe, lieber Sohn. Poem by Christian Morgenstern - Message by Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk

28 years, 5 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by manney＠nwohio.com

> Hello there, I run a fileserver that has 2 ST-225 20 meg drives, and 1 NEC > 420 meg IDE drive, this system runs 24/7, and has been running for 2 months > continuous now. My question is what is the life expectancy of these drives, > it is often said that the ST-225 series are not reliable, however they > continue to run strong. also these things run so hot that you can fry an egg > on it! :) Where is the heat localized? The logic board gets hot around the bearing (bushing), but the case itself shouldn't get hot. I'd be worried. I deal with a *lot* of old systems, and I don't see any more dead ST-225's than others. I always keep an ST-225 around, 'cause I *know* it'll go on #2 in the ROM drive table if I can't locate the listing in the BIOS.

28 years, 5 months

PAM computer, Convergent?

by allisonp＠world.std.com

->On the OUTSIDE, in their scrap yard, is where most of the computer ->stuff ends up. I once found a WICAT *and* an EXORCISOR II out ->there-- both filled with water. (Sob!). Heh, I would have used that to get them cheap. Then I'd take them home wash them out throughly and disassembled and dried them well. Generally water is not that damaging. Just done power them wet. Allison

28 years, 5 months

While the cat's away...

by bw＠booster.bothell.washington.edu

;) Hi all. Due to a major computer disaster here at work I haven't been reading list mail and probably won't for a few more days. So, I'm not ignoring anyone and if anything is really important e-mail me directly (bill(a)booster.u.washington.edu). And, if anyone can tell me why 11 NT servers in a single domain would crash one at a time every 4 minutes and 20 seconds until the whole network is gone - please let me know ;). Bill

28 years, 5 months

Computer Museums

by manney＠nwohio.com

> What should be on display considering: > 1) space limitation > 2) Mainframes, minis, micros > 3) What would most attract visitors > 4) What would most attract funding :) Three things which have changed radically over the years.are - 01 Power (including speed) - 10 Cost - 11 Display capabilities (on affordable systems, that is) You might want to consider comparing the above parameters system-by-system. Software has become less klunky over the years. Try having an ancient word processor running so people can see, say, the number of steps required to open a file. Don't forget output technology...compare an old daisy wheel to a laser, a superannuated 9 pin to a modern 24 pin, get a thermal printer, and a thinkjet (really raunchy output, but FAST). I'm collecting historically significant micros (such as the C64 -- they're cheap, so everyone got one.) If you can get the dirt on why, for example, CBM shot themselves in the foot, that would be interesting. Why aren't Apples more common, for example?

28 years, 5 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 01:18 PM 7/15/97 +0000, you wrote: >simply too small try first: under the width of drive cage, seal the >grille holes on metal sheet and on case cover on right side, seal >that underside holes, all with a good tape. On that XT PSU, how much >airflow blowing out back, weak? Look for a replacement fan that does >better than this el cheapo fans. Try AT type case if you can, they >has bigger, powerful fan. Ok, I checked it out, and it appears that there already is a vinyl plastic glued to the front, with a 5160 sticker on it. I also put a cardboard cover in the empty bay, and this seems to work. the PSU is actually not IBM made, it is an aftermarket brand that has a strong fan in it, stronger than what I find on NEW Yackard Hells! <G> >XT case design especially in cooling department is bit goofy, blamed >by IBM for this ill. :) It continues to amaze me on just WHY whatever IBM made, as flawed as it is, the public jumped on it and supported it... look at winsucks 95..... >> there is good air flow, just they seem to run this >> hot. >More power to air flow is needed, see the tips.. >> I never ran these drives before and have no idea how hot they should >> be. as for power cycling, they get NONE. this system has been running for 2 >> months continous, without any powerdowns since they were installed, so for 2 >> months now, the thermal stability has (hopefully) stayed the same. >> thanx >Hey, no problem! >Jason D. >

28 years, 5 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by cerebral＠michianatoday.com

At 09:34 AM 7/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >First off why bother withg the st225s? They are slow (st251s are >faster!) and their reliability is at best ok. FYI: st225s live far I would if I had a ST-251, but I got 4 ST-225's, and 2 of them are in use, and the other 2 are spares. they are slow, but they do work nicely. I also like the sound of old hardware, the new drives you can hardly hear them run, with these, you can hear them a mile away! :) The cooling fan on this machine is as loud as the hard disks, and moves lots of warm air.. >longer if they are cooled. If the fan isn't noisy it isn't moving enough >air past them, seriously! Also if they are in the smae box as all the >other hardware they raise the other components temperature lowering their it is in an XT case, which is huge, and has one slot free for air to move.. and my room is not air condidtioned, but the house is, but the cold never travels in here! <G> >life. Heat is not your friend, this is why computer rooms are air >conditioned an usuialy under 70 degrees F. > >Allison > >

28 years, 5 months

New surplus outlet!

by kyrrin＠wizards.net

Denizens of the Bay Area, check this out! HMR Recycling (www.hmr-usa.com), when I had the opportunity to visit, reminded me greatly of one of the Surplus Warehouses of Olde. Reasonable prices, huge assortment to choose from, and 100,000 sq. feet of warehouse to peruse! Example: Nearly new-looking Tektronix 7844 dual-beam O-scope, with a pair each of 7B92A timebase and 7A26 vertical plugins, with cart: $400. Other examples: Emulex P3000 print server, $20. DEC RRD42 SCSI CD-ROM drive, $20. Exabyte EXB-8200 2.3 gig 8mm tape drive, $125. One of my finds there was a pair of DEC storage expansion cabinets at $45 each (bargained down from $50 since I bought both of them). They each contained a pair of DEC RZ57 drives (made by Micropolis, 1.0 gigs each, all SCSI). Heck of a deal! They get new stuff in literally every day. I went there twice on different days, and found some neat deals both times. 08:00-16:30, Monday-Friday only, minimum purchase $20.00, and you need to sign the visitor log and wear a visitor badge while looking around. Other than that, enjoy! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."

28 years, 5 months

What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers

by allisonp＠world.std.com

>>>jpero... Sorry if this is long but it is important to users of classic machines. <I gently disagree with this assertion that ST251 series is good than <ST225 series. I got too many dead ST251 series compared to ST225's <due to weaker structral design, pushed design by driving steppers too <hard byond 40ms average and not as rugged as ST225's. Can't say I disagree. You however confused my assertion of better performace in terms of access times, with reliability. Its faster and more storage for less power and heat than two st225s. I never said it was more reliable. My expereince is that the st251 is less tolerrent of heat but if cooled it seems to do as well as most st225s (n=10k+). An experience with a customer in Austrailia using both 225s and 251s proved it. FYI neither like heat! <goal set by designers. If one wants faster seeking time, go voice <coil! I am dreaming wishing that ST251 drive was fitted with voice <coil instead of stepper and better motor design...sigh. true, but there are voice coil dries out there that do not hold up well too. It's a design trade made by some companies thinking the mechanics will never outlive the electronics. Much of it is process quality and handling. Most bad drives I've seen were from warm enviornments or dropped in their life. <reliably. Whole problem was that design of this ST251 spindle motor <is ill-designed to begin with in my opinion: Trying to fit all the <coils and one bearing INSIDE that spindle results in weak axle that <gets bent easily due to this design and the bearings failure rate on <this one is high too. It has a problem with gyroscopc precession, this makes it very susceptable to small shocks when running. The bearing does not like sideloads either. I agree it could have been better thought out. generally going to the smaller 3.5" was actaully an improvement in reliability for disks as it took less power to spin it and also move the heads. With less mass in the media the motors, bearings and all could be more rigid for it's size. The lower heat made bearing life better and also helped dimesional stability. < Recently I pulled this ST225 out of dumpter and fixed up the XT with < this hd and LLF'ed it. Gave whole thing to poor guy to use vax at < college. Still works. Most 225s were not fails, just retired due to small space available. FYI you get better results if the disk is LLF'd in situ and well warmed up. I must have 6 st225s of them all good and solid. I use them but, when I need speed I try to use others (quantum q540 30mb is nice!). <I tore down all kinds of drives from old and 3 years old types for <post-failure analysis which gave pretty good info for me. Same here, mostly limited to: St506, st412, st225, st251, micropolus1325 and quantum Q540, Q2190s and a few other dec disks. I have an st238 that refuses to die! <Snip! Tales of positive things about cooling... <Actually, all drives old and new benefits from cooling and boards <likes the flowing cooling air. Very true, vacuuming the vents from time to time also is a good thing. The big advantage of the newer drives is they consume less power therfore produce less damaging heat enhancing reliability. <We have no choice as many do not have AC so they ran in warm air <but if you are careful, enough fans to make hurriance out of it and <put a fan or two on monitor as well. My 17" needs two otherwise the <HOT transistor will pop again. ARRGgghhh. Tell me! I run microvaxen, Q-bus PDP-11s and s100 systems and 20 years of experince (and reliability studies) has taught me 90F is a hard ceiling and to shutdown with fans running if it gets hotter. I know this from my days at DEC in the mill when my office system (11/23) was fried by an AC failure, the area hit 98f and the 11 went down for the count. I've been pulling the plug regularly this year as we've had a lot of warm here in MA. ;-) Even without AC, every effort to remove heat is good! Even if you can't lower the ambient, keeping the guts closer to it will help greatly. My s100 crate has two 5" 120cfm fans pushing air up through the cage and it runs stone cold. The original layout had an 80cfm fan in the PS section pulling the air around and the boards ran HOT. It makes a racket but compared the the 8" drive and considering it's 20 years old... it still runs. Even my ba123 microvax, I replaced the fans to blow up as someone put them in backwards for less noise. You fight convection and lose cooling efficiencty. Since I have few spares I prefer to keep it going and tolerate a slight increase in noise. This is something to watch for on older systems where things may have been replaced but with the wrong (underrated) items. One last item. MAKE BACKUPS OF EVERYTHING. make duplicate backups and test the backups for integrity. Disks fail, and the cheapest insurance is a boot and backup package that works when you replace/repair the offending drive. Allison

28 years, 5 months

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test-drb