Doug Yowza <yowza(a)yowza.com> wrote:
] To be fair, analog computers can do things digital computers can't. For
] example, a digital computer can only approximate 1.0/3.0 whereas an
] analog box has no trouble with this. Certain ops would also be much
Actually, you've got that backwards. Contained in your message above
is a totally accurate digital representation of 1/3. Oh, there it is
again, at the end of that sentence. It is an analog measure of this
that would lack precision.
OBCC: Is there any such thing as a stored-program analog computer?
I guess Babbage's analytic engine would fit that category, but all
of the other analog "computers" that I've heard of (not many) just
performed some fixed calculation. In my book, a stored program with
sequence-control makes the difference between a computer and a
calculator, manufacturer's labelling notwithstanding.
Bill.
The other day someone re-posted section 2.8 of the FAQ and I thought
it might be a good idea to repost sections 1 and 2 in their entirety,
as they address what the list is about and what sorts of traffic are
appropriate.
I didn't write this. Bill Whitson did, and posted it to the list in
early July 1977 (thanks, Bill). All I did was snarf it from
http://www.heydon.org/kevan/classiccmp/1997-07/msg00028.html (thanks,
Kevan).
I have no comment on this. I am merely posting it for the benefit of
those who haven't seen it before, and those who have, but (like me)
didn't have a copy handy and need a refresher to figure out just what
is irritating some folks so.
-Frank McConnell
--- begin included text ---
1.1 What is ClassicCmp?
It's a mailing list for the discussion of classic computers. Topics center
on collection, restoration, and operation. It is also an appropriate place
for stories and reminiscences of classic computers. Lofty discussions
dealing with the philosophical and/or metaphysical aspects of computers are
often better handled in private e-mail.
1.2 Why is ClassicCmp?
Uh, why not? There are lots of people who love these old machines and it
seems like a fun idea to get together and talk about them.
1.3 What is a Classic Computer?
_Any computer_ that has not been manufactured for 10 years is a classic.
This definition is one I made up and it's entirely arbitrary. It seems to
work OK, so I've kept it.
1.4 Who runs this thing?
That would be me, Bill Whitson - email bcw(a)u.washington.edu.
1.5 How come I can never reach this so-called list operator?
Sorry. It does often take me several days (sometimes weeks!) to respond
to e-mail. I am often away for days at a time and when I'm not I'm still
probably busy doing real work. I receive more than double the amount of
mail that goes to the list in the form of spam, bounced messages, odd
user requests, general bitching, etc. and I still have to filter out the
messages I actually have to respond to, to remain employed ;). I will get
back to you eventually.
1.6 Do you know you're just duplicating work other people have done.
I get a "reinventing the wheel" e-mail at least once a week. If you show
me another group of computer collectors that claims a membership as large
as this one I'll show you a group that must be very hard to find. Obviously
there are other groups of collectors and I'm cheering them on - I don't see
a problem with duplicating and reduplicating lore that's quickly disappearing
anyway.
1.7 How much mail should I expect to get on this list?
The daily load varies widely from about 10 messages to over 100. Average
seems to be about 44 messages a day. There are times where the message
load peaks for as much as a week.
[][][][][][][][][]
2.1 What can I talk about?
Anything related to classic computers as defined above. There are many
people on this list that really know what they're talking about, so you might
want to check facts before you start shooting off messages. It's also a
good idea to actually read the FAQs and check the archives a little before
posting.
2.2 Can I talk about PCs?
Yes. PCs which haven't been manufactured for 10 years. Even then, be
aware that in many cases you would get a better response posting to PC
newsgroups.
2.3 Can I talk about Minis/MainFrames/WorkStations/Gigantic Talking Boxes
with Flashing Lights & Coundown Timers/Robots from Alien Civilizations?
There has apparently been some misconception that this is a list for
micros/home computers only. You'll note I said "misconception".
2.4 Can I post advertisements?
Sure. As long as they're related to _classic_ computers. And, of course,
use your brain - don't spam. Also, please state up-front whether or not
you are willing to ship the items you sell outside your country as there
are members of this list in a number of different countries.
2.5 Can I ask people to sell/give me their computers?
Sure. But you're not likely to get a very nice response. Mine, for example,
would be: Get your own f***ing computer! There are several people on
usenet who will vouch for this. When someone posts about one of their
machines without offering to sell it - it's really a pretty good bet that
they're not secretly trolling for offers. See section 5 for info on how to
find yourself a computer.
2.6 Can I ask for help fixing item x.
Yes. Be aware that it may be difficult to help you fix things if you don't
have much knowledge of how computers work or of how to use basic
electronics tools (VOM/DMM, soldering iron, EPROM burner, etc). I'm no whiz
with this stuff and the little knowledge I have has come from asking
questions and then buying books to find out what "Simple... Just check
the voltage on the caps in the PS to make sure one of them isn't flaking
out!" exactly means.
2.7 Where can I look before posting a dumb question?
It might be a good idea to take a look at what's available in the Archive
section of the ClassicCmp web site (see below).
2.8 Can I type obscenities about Microsoft in ALL CAPS!?!
(Or, in general, be unreasonable with reagard to advocacy posts?)
Check your anti-MS baggage at the door, please. For that matter, drop
any posts that serve only to perpetuate the holy wars.
2.9 Can I post trophy lists?
Ahem. Er... I'm not going to go to the extent of banning this practise
but it is considered bad manners. Don't whine to me because I used to be
guilty of this and curbed myself ;). Post lists of newly acquired goods
if you actually need info on them, not just to show off.
2.10 Can I use obscene language in my posts?
Yes. Although I'm sure many people would prefer you did not. A number of
people have complained about this. I'm not going to outlaw swearing - now
that I've informed you that it bothers people you can make your choice.
--- end included text ---
Hello folks. I just moved into the SF bay area and found myself
terribly uncomfortable without my trusty pdp11, which I had to leave in
Pennsylvania due to space constraints. I just now subscribed to this
list, so I haven't seen any of the messages lately. My question is:
Are there any pdp11s being offered for sale/free anywhere near oakland,
ca?
thanks for any replies.
jake
>The dos geneology is roughly...
>
>DEC PDP-8 OS/8 (pip, stat, dir)-->
RT-11/RSTS/RSX11-->
> CPM-80-->
> CPM86-->
> dos-1.0-->
>
>The VAX OS line up VMS is off the RSX11 part fo the PDP-11
tree.
>
>DOS was a translation of 8080 CPM-80 to 8086 by seattle
computer. Unix
>has been an influence but largely not that great.
>
>UNIX has it's own tree and there are to say the least many
flavors some
>of which even resemble each other.
>Allison
To add in a bit more....
CP/M comes directly from RT-11 and the RSTS tree. Even the PIP
command (peripheral interchance program) was very similar to the
RT-11 version of PIP. CP/M had a more sophisticated file system
than RT-11, but less sophisticated device drivers.
VMS was not the first virtual memory OS that DEC wrote.
TOPS-20, for the PDP-20 (that was a PDP-10 with virtual memory)
was the first virtual system. TOPS-20 was not the same as
TOPS-10, even the system calls were invoked a different way.
(My first real systems programming job was on a 20/40, a joy to
work on, tho slow by modern standards).
Jack Peacock
Any idea where I might find documentation for Intel PDS-100? Same
place I can find a winning powerball lottery ticket I suppose?
Marty
______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100
Author: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu at internet
Date: 3/17/98 12:51 PM
<Marty wrote:
<>
<> I have an Intel PDS-100 Personal Development System but no manuals or
<> information on this unit. It is from 1979-1982 I believe, and has two
<> prom programming boards with it. The unit is the size of a slightly
<> large pc, has a carrying handle with built in monitor, keyboard and
<> two 5 1/4" half height floppy drives.
It was introduced later in the 1983-85 time frame. 1979 would have been
the more expensive and heavy MDS-2xx series.
I believe the native OS was ISIS though it's possible that IRMX was also
available and CPM as well from third parties.
Allison
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From: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: INTEL PDS-100
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
I have two one for $30 at Goodwill and one for $15 from scrape dealer. Now
the same Goodwill has sold about 10 more complete with mouse and everything
for $20 each. Good Luck with yours. John
At 04:12 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I found one for sale with OS and extras, can anyone give me some feedback
>on it? Maybe what a fair price would be?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Aaron
>
>
>
No, that's not the problem. I can hear the other end howling away
on the modem's speaker, but the modem doesn't recognize it for some
reason. I want this thing to work so I could replace my 1200.
>To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Re: PN2400SA
>
>
>
>>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier.
>>I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and
>>the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT
>>reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have
>>a feeling it's something else. Ideas?
>>
>Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are
using
>Line and not Phone
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message with no relevant information, and especially having nothing to
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier.
I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and
the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT
reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have
a feeling it's something else. Ideas?
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>I typed AT&F, the modem said OK, but it still ignored the carrier.
>I even tried ATZ. I looked at its current settings with AT&V, and
>the ones that I knew were fine. The ones that were not in my AT
>reference guide (to another modem) were, for example &Qx. But I have
>a feeling it's something else. Ideas?
>
Does this one have separate Line and Phone jacks? Make sure you are using
Line and not Phone
