On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:> I HATE object oriented stuff. Hate it, hate it, hate it. At least
:>in C++, Java, and Visual Basic, which have been my only expoures
:>to it.
we disagree. there are several flavors (sic) of object-oriented
programming, and whilst some of them are the invention of a sick and
twisted mind (c++), some of them are just damn fine coffee... ;> visual
basic isn't OO, don't be confused. and strongly typed OO systems should
probably not be used for anything small or prototypical.
however, we'd urge you to take a look at some other object oriented
languages. smalltalk, common lisp, self, oberon, etc. *much* nicer. and
then grab a forth and roll your own :>
:I'be not tried VB, and almost zero Java, but I had to use Ada for
:three years.
oh, someone else. we had to do that, thanks to bradford university's oh
so wonderful degree course. and to think that the oxonians were moaning
about modula-2...
we've used vb and java reasonably extensively. both are far too typed.
vb doesn't even have inheritance, which renders it pretty much useless.
:Ada 95 has a lot of OO features (though you needn't
:use it that way). It is my most unfavourite language. Some of us
:have described Ada as a read-only language (cf. C as a write-only
:language).
not even that. it takes up too much space, and the preferred format
places variable names in capitals, rendering them almost entirely
unreadable. and the OO features are only a glorified type-extension
mechanism - oberon's idea, but done by committee in ada95.
ada is a disgusting language, not because it is verbose or hard to
program, but because it introduces another language - and a vast one at
that - without giving anything *new*; it doesn't give value for money.
size without content.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
max eskin:
:a)If you think about it, a neuron in the brain is very much like an
:AND gate or a transistor. It has multiple inputs and needs a certain
:amount of electricty across them for its single output to go high.
erm, yes, but neurons have to also "learn" what inputs should lead to
one state in their outputs. they can also connect inputs and outputs
as necessary, though we doubt they can reconnect.
and that's assuming that the universe is entirely deterministic and
humans have no souls. we're atheist, but we aren't willing to go there
to stay.
:b)I heard that people are working on computers with transistors so
:small, they would be affected by quantum laws, and thus be analog
transistors are, and always have been, analogue. look inside an old amp
if you doubt this. even mosfets are analogue (they apparently have
distortion characteristics more similar to valves when used in audio
applications - can anyone confirm, express preferences, etc?) - the
switching properties are a handy side-effect. quantum effects make
transistors unreliable, not [more] analogue.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
On 1998-03-16 classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu said to lisard(a)zetnet.co.uk
:> make sure you set the "send mail as text only" property somewhere
:> obscure in the settings.
:Doesn't that shut down HTML for ALL mail though? You'd think a
:person could specify what type messages (easily) to each person
:individually instead of as a whole.
you would, wouldn't you...? *sigh*
we used ie4 for all of 2 weeks, and during that time killing html mail
entirely was what we wanted. you can, though, turn it on again for
individual *mails* in the properties for that mail, whilst you compose
it. what you can't do is set it at any grain 'twixt the twain.
--
Communa (together) we remember... we'll see you falling
you know soft spoken changes nothing to sing within her...
David Wollmann <dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com> wrote:
> Why not steer those who can do nntp to alt.folklore.computers? a.f.c
> carries discussions on all aspects of computer history, including many of
> the topics discussed here.
Seconded. I can think of a few recent threads that might make more
sense in a.f.c (or maybe even comp.arch) than here. Oh all right,
I'll be openly opinionated: host names, AI, rational numbers, and
digital vs. analog computing. My opinions only, if you want to flame
me for 'em do it privately.
Lest y'all think I'm suggesting exiling some threads to the
Usenet/alt-net ghetto: I read a.f.c too, and sometimes browse
comp.arch, and would be more inclined to participate in those threads
in a.f.c because I do find them interesting or amusing, I'm just not
sure they're appropriate for this list.
The MIME/HTML vs. plain text e-mail thread is meta-discussion, and its
existence makes me wonder whether the FAQ should include a Q&A on list
e-mail etiquette, or more properly things to do to get your message
read by more people (post as plain text, trim quoted text, format for
display on an 80-column terminal screen).
For that matter, should the FAQ include references to a.f.c and other
Usenet resources?
> Before flaming folk for ignoring the FAQ, make it readily available. Stick
> the FAQ URL at the bottom of every re-mailed message to act as a constant
> reminder.
How about a periodic repost of the FAQ, or parts thereof? Some folks
can do e-mail but can't webulate.
And having said all these things about the FAQ, I'm willing to do some
work on it, like writing updated entries and/or making regular
reposts happen.
-Frank McConnell
>
<> If the problem is fast sneaky pulses, how do I detect this? What's the
<> easiest way and, barring that, what's the most effective way even if it
<> difficult?
<>
<> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead
Cheat, lift (bend) the D input pin so it's not in the socket and pull it
up to +5v through a resistor (1k-or most anything). lacking that let it
float unconnected and see what the output does. Guarentees a logic one
in and Q=1 out.
Allison
What kind of stores are you hitting that you are having such luck?
Today - I stopped into a local pawn shop - a rare place in the suburbs -
and picked up an Atari 520ST and an Atari SF354 disk drive sans cables
and power supplies. My first pawn shop find. I passed on a IIgs they
had, but I was tempted. What I'm really looking for is a IIe.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: rigdonj(a)intellistar.net [mailto:MIME @INTERNET
{rigdonj(a)intellistar.net}]
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 7:18 AM
To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Question for the Faq - If there is one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mike,
I'm in the central Florida area and I've had darned good luck here. In
the last couple of months I have acquired; Altair 8800a, IBM 5100, 2 AT&T
3B2s, AT&T 3B1, 2 Tandy 6000s, a bunch of HPs, and two Commodore Pets,
etc.
I pass up Compaq and KayPro luggables, Timexs, NCRs, and stuff like that
*EVERY* day. Even passed up a DEC last week. If you get down this way,
I'll
give you a tour of some good places to hit.
Joe
At 12:48 PM 3/17/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>If there's no FAQ there probably should be one. I'd start one myself
but
>I'm no where near qualified to do so.
>
>Anyhow, here's something that I'm sure has been asked and probably will
>be asked again - What are the top ten hotspots for finding old
>equipment?
>
>Thanks - Mike
>
>
This message is directed to those individuals who care that this mailing
list has slowly degraded into a usenet newsgroup. The rest of you can
continue to be unconcerned and skip this message.
Its obvious that this mailing list needs an overhaul. Any attempts to
steer it back to its proper course of discussion have been either
ridiculed or ignored.
Again, this goes back to my argument a few weeks back when the noise was
at its loudest, which is that it all boils down to common courtesy and
respect.
In my normal life, I make it a point to break the rules and live against
convention. I can do that without disturbing the rest of my fellow humans
because the impact of my actions doesn't reach very far. Plus I don't
flout convention just to flout convention, thereby inconveniencing others.
However, in this tight-knit community where the slightest ripple builds
into a wave and then a tsunami, it is not appropriate to continually
transcend the intended use of this forum for one's own personal amusement.
When you're in close quarters, you don't fart unless you're an asshole.
The quality of the PEOPLE on this mailing list has declined considerably.
It used to be that Bill screened participants before they were allowed to
join, thereby filtering out the potential riff raff. The community we
used to have, although semi-exclusive, did produce some excellent
discussion material. However, now that Bill has fallen off the face of
the earth and just about anyone with half a brain can join, a good
majority of the discussion at times is off-topic and boorish. The worst
case is the one-line reply to the hundred line quoted message. It used to
be fun to read about classic computers. Now its pretty lame reading about
[insert off-topic shit here].
I think the best approach to this would be to let this stupid mailing list
die out and start an alternate forum. So I'm going to do just that. I'm
beginning work on a web BBS which will have multiple topic areas. It will
be semi-moderated and any inkling of off-topic blather will be expunged
promptly. Better yet, I may even decide to turn it into a classic BBS
running on a classic system (I can resurrect the never finished BBS
software I was writing on my Apple //e). That way, those interested in
joining will have to take some effort to do so, which will eliminate the
casual turd.
I'll let interested parties know when this is completed and ready for
beta. Please e-mail me (need I add "privately"?) with any tips or
suggestions you may have. Your input would be greatly appreciated. Your
criticisms will be answered with fantasticly cruel insults and derision.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
I would think that constructive suggestions would accomplish much more than
flame bait like calling folk "turds".
Suggestions:
Why not steer those who can do nntp to alt.folklore.computers? a.f.c
carries discussions on all aspects of computer history, including many of
the topics discussed here.
Before flaming folk for ignoring the FAQ, make it readily available. Stick
the FAQ URL at the bottom of every re-mailed message to act as a constant
reminder.
Experienced users tend to ignore belligerent posts rather then respond to
them and waste time with pointless arguments. A gentle reminder to read the
FAQ will often suffice.
Finally: moderate, or get off the pot. Have you ever been a member of a
committee without a chairman? Can you say: slugfest?
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
Don't forget the above phrase. It CAN'T stand. Make no mistake. Sam,
you've made some mistakes. LETS NOT LOSE ANY MEMBERS OVER THIS. IT'S
IMPORTANT, AT LEAST TO ME. I KNOW THAT I'VE BEEN PART OF THE PROBLEM, BUT I
WANT TO BE A GREATER PART OF THE SOLUTION.
Tim D. Hotze
