Sent to massyr(a)washpost.com copied to classiccomp:
My cut on a nook in computer history. It's mine as I was only of
those nutty kids hacking a pdp-8 in highschool in 1969 wondering about
31 years lateer and how that would not fit into a 12 bit word used to
express date.
<i'm working on a piece here at the Washington Post about the Year
<2000 bug, and
<although there is plenty of info about what it is and how to combat
<it, there is very little
<history available.
<specifically, i'm trying to find out 1) who were the co-authors of
<the COBOL language
<along with Grace Murray Hopper,
Since she was military (LT at the time if memory serves) her fellows would
be military members as well. That may help you.
2) who decided to use two digits for the year instead of four,
Rather than answer that question directly as I cannot I'll supply resoning
instead. Computers over the years have come down in price, up in speed
and increased greatly in storage and memory. Those last two items are
significant to the discussion.
Starting in the early 50s a computer with 4000 words of memory and sorage
of say several hundred thousand words of data were large and scarce. The
technology for making memory and bulk storage were new. This would remian
true for many years, through the 60s. Because of the cost for even a few
bits of storage it was resonable to not store obvious data like the first
two digits of the date, after all tht was known and the lifetime of the
mache was like five years at best. So programming languages like Cobol
and more importantly the operating systems that managed the machine would
only keep the minimum amount of storage for the variable part of the date
(month, day, year). Memory was a premium for many machines and costly way
waste it on storing things that are assumed.
This habit persisted will into the '80s as while memories got larger and
machines smaller many would be expected to run the same or related
programs from their older parents. the scene is now set. Another thing
was the emergence of standard programming languages where certain aspect
of the language were expected to behave the same on sometimes radically
different machines.
The rest is history as many programming languages like cobol were expected
to be dead. However conservitive users like banking, government insisted
on tried and proven programming tools and languages thus propagating abd
prolonging the life of these burdend items. The burden was they had to
behave like their ancestors right down to little things like the date!
3) who discovered the Y2K problem?
It wasn't "discovered" nor was it a new problem. Some manchines and
operating systems had the equivelent of the Y2k problem several times
over and well before the year 2000. The example I know best is the
Digital Equipment Corp PDP-8, in teh mid to late 60s this machine was
introduced with the following attributes, small, low cost. It would
persist well in to the 1980's in various smaller and more compact forms.
The significance of the machine was it's the first "minicomputer" to be
sold in volume. In it's time thousands was big volumes. Now, it was
also a small machine in memory. The designeers for one of the popular
operating systems for it (known as OS/8) knowing that memory was a
precious commodity used the minimum needed to implment time and date.
The year portion was accorded a platry three bits meaning it could only
count from 0 through 7. Since this was introduced in roughly 1969 their
Y2k problem would occur every 7 years!. This was not the only machine or
company, just an example.
I know I was asking some of my friends what was going to happen as far
back as in the late 60' and early 70s when as high schools and college
students we were asking what happens if this machine should still be
running in the year 2000? Some of us considered that unlikely as the
pace for new machines at the time suggested it's life was maybe five
years and that pace was accelerating. Was was missed was the persistance
of some applications programming languages. While the PDP-8 has been out
of production for over 15 years many are still in use. While Cobol has
dropped as a mainstream language for over 10 years the problems that
are now tried and proven persist. This is true for several other
languages and some operating systems as well.
So no, the year 2000 problem wasn't discovered, save maybe for the media
person to finally put into print what every programmer and systems person
already knew. "We didn't use enough bits and were running out".
Allison
In IBM's description of the PS/2 Model 70, the said that it ran
DOS 3.3 and higher, OS/2 1.0x and higher, and AIX PS/2. Does anyone
have possession/experience with the last item? I guess it's a form
of UNIX.
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got a card labeled SUPERTALKER II by mountain computer. i've heard of the
company, but not of the card. seems to be speech synthesis or similar. web
search on the company and the card brought up nothing. anyone have more info?
david
It occurs to me that, whilst we have heard several opinions about what to do
with old data, these posts are being achived! If someone who is thinking of
disposing of a machine sees that some on the list appear to have less
respect (IMHO) for the confidentiality of old data than others might this
not put them off giving a machine away.
FWIW I believe that we should make it clear on all 'collection associated'
web sites that any old data, whatever its nature, will be treated in the
strictest of confidence.
Regards
Pete
(Dons asbestos suit and runs for cover ;-)
Sounds like it is meant to go with early multisync monitors like NEC
Multisync I and II which have a 9 pin socket so in reality it is probably
just an EGA card.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aaron Christopher Finney <aaron(a)wfi-inc.com>
The little bit I could find on the video card claims that it uses a
multisync monitor. It has the two rca jacks and a db-9; how do I wire an
adapter for db-9 to hd-15?
The budding started tonight for a TRS-80 Model 3 network computer which
has the serial # of 0000510!! Check out this URL to get in on it if you
wish:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=10391298
Thanks,
CORD COSLOR
--
___________________________________________________
| Cord G. Coslor : archive(a)navix.net |\
| Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue(a)navix.net | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | |
|---------------------------------------------------| |
| PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | |
|___________________________________________________| |
\____________________________________________________\|
Toshiba also has files listing specs of older machines, and a file that
lists prices of discontinued items. See:
http://www.csd.toshiba.com/tais/csd/support/files/product.htm
P.S., the other page wasn't 100% complete (had the T5200 but not the
T5100) but still was pretty good. This one looks to have most (older)
models.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
[Autocad not requiring math coprocessor]
Well, version 12 for Dos, which is what I have, seems to require it.
It refuses to start up, quitting with "80x87 required, but not
present". Whoever said it doesn't, maybe you have a lower version.
If so, which and what's it like? I would certainly be interested in
an older version, such a 7 or 8.
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At 11:47 PM 4/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> >* I'll return or destroy any personal data I find on a machine I acquire.
>>
>> ...acquire, keeping it in the strictest confidence should I find it
>> necessary to view it.
>
>More like...if the person(s) that ditched the computer in whatever form
didn't
>feel the need to safeguard the information prior to release of their
>personal/corporate property, then it's of no reason to follow through with
any
>protection of data/software contained on the machine or disks. If you buy a
Except, that people may feel it's easier (and/or safer) to just destroy the
machine than it is to try and make sure no one can read their data. What
if some one told you, "yeah, I had one of those imsai computers, but I had
it smashed up to make sure no one could get at my old tax returns." Not a
pleasant thought.
I agree that people should be responsible for their own data, but I also
feel that we, as collectors, need to hold ourselves to a higher standard,
so that people will feel comfortable giving us their old machines.
Similarly, would you tell your analyst/doctor/lawyer as much as you do, if
you thought they might be telling everyone in the pub what you told them?
>camcorder at a consignment or pawn shop and the last owners left a tape of
>their after-hours playtime in the camcorder, is it my responsibility to
erase,
>safeguard or return it? I think not. I feel the same should apply to personal
It's your responsibility to post it on the internet! 8^)
Camcorders are reasonably well understood items; what if it were a digital
camera? Someone might decide not to pass it on if they thought they might
not have erased everything...
Most of the people here probably know how to wipe a hard drive so it can't
be read. (My best guess is a low-level format, then fill it with worthless
data? Good thing I have nothing to hide!) But the average AOL user
doesn't. When Grandpa passes on, you don't want the grandkids trashing all
his old computers because they don't know how to make sure that no one will
know about all the porno sites he visited on the web.
>Roger: Very nice page of your collection. A few more pics of each item and it
>should become a very informative source for those interested in the world of
>the obsolete (the computers, not you).
I tried to get pics of each side and any important features... You think
even more pics would be appropriate? Or do you mean pics of more computers?
P.S., for them what was interested, I'm still working (in my Copious Spare
Time) on documenting the programs I use to generate the pages. I'll post
when I get them finished and uploaded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
Got this in the mail... Please respond to Ed at ed(a)estival.com...
>X-Persona: <Roger(a)Sinasohn.Com>
>X-Originating-IP: [32.100.144.158]
>From: "Ed Schreiber" <edschreiber(a)hotmail.com>
>To: roger(a)sinasohn.com
>Subject: Franklin computer available
>Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 20:34:11 PDT
>
>To computer museums and serious collectors:
>
>There is a Franklin 1000 computer available for donation (Apple II
>clone). Monitor, two floppy drives, all cables, some software, still
>works.
>
>If interested, please respond.
>
>Ed Schreiber
>http://estival.com
>ed(a)estival.com
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/
