On May 6, 13:06, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote:
> Subject: What's an Emulex TC12?
> Just dug one out of the board pile.
> What is it?
> Is it a 9-track controller? (Please, oh please...)
I think so; I expect it's the Unibus equivalent of my QBus TC02. I've got
the manual if you need to ask about it.
>Oh, I'll be gentle with them, and polite, at least to start with. But
>when _I'm_ paying for the call (often at a premium rate), or even worse
>am paying for so-called tech support, I expect a little more than a
>person who treats me like somebody who can't even read. In other words I
>expect _technical_ support on the product that they supplied me with.
Exactly. I also expect if the technical support is not via phone (IE from
e-mail, web based, etc.) to get a timely answer. With my old soundcard, it
was 3 months, by which time I'd gotten so fed up I'd figured it out anyway.
Now I use a real Sound Blaster AWE 64. I like the cool sound.
>> Have you ever gotten a response?
>
>Other than the obvious 'we don't support that any more' or 'A bug in a 20
>year product, you must be mad to expect us to do anything about it', no,
>not really.
Well, yeah, but if you're lucky and get the right people...
Or if you say that it had a "lifetime warranty."
Tim D. Hotze
I was at the scrap yard yesterday, picking up some aluminum blocks to
play with on my new CNC milling machine, and decided to take a stroll
out where they occasionally dump old mainframe parts. It's just this
huge mud lot about 2 blocks square, with big mounds of twisted metal,
wire, cable, crushed cars, and all kinds of other junk, with a bunch
of bits of electronics thrown in more or less at random. I wasn't in
the mood for a lot of climbing, so I just poked around the edges. I
found a board about 18" square sitting on top of a barrel. When I
picked it up, it was *way* too heavy for the size. Flipped it over
and saw another, smaller board screwed to the bottom. It was marked
"DataRAM". I thought "Oh no - surely not. It can't be core memory!
But it's so *heavy*! What is it?" I took it along. I also found an
old controller module of some kind with an RCA 1802 and support chips
on it; now maybe I can finally build a real Elf. Anyway, they sell
everything by the pound, and the two pieces cost me about $2. Brought
it home, removed all the screws around the edge, pulled off the
smaller board, and guess what? Acres of core! Tiny little ones, too
- I haven't seen that much core, but the other small piece I have has
cores with a center hole about the size of a pencil lead. These were
so small they looked like grains of sand, or salt. Had to use a 12x
magnifier to see them clearly. By my count, there are about 100 per
inch in both directions, and it's about 8"x10", with a few gaps here
and there, so this gives... ummm... (square root of 7, carry the 9...)
uh... something under 800k-bits or so? Does this sound right?
Anyway, I was pretty pumped. I may go back and do some serious
climbing and burrowing this weekend...
-Bill Richman
bill_r(a)inetnebr.com
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r
(Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!)
I have no clue what this guy considers a 'serious' offer. Maybe
someone on the list can 'offer' to haul it away...? ;-)
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote:
>>From: rmweiss(a)aol.com (RMWeiss)
>>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
>>Subject: pdp11/73 for sale-fully functioning
>>Lines: 6
>>Message-ID: <1998050401492500.VAA29644(a)ladder01.news.aol.com>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
>>X-Admin: news(a)aol.com
>>Date: 04 May 1998 01:49:25 GMT
>>Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news.burgoyne.com!news.eecs.umich.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
>>
>>located in New Jersey, very recently retired system. stand alone case, 1meg
>>mem,160 meg Fujitsu drive, tape backup, peripherals, etc. Please address any
>>serious offers and questions to Ronny at RMWeiss(a)aol.com or call (800) 526-3192
>>M-F 9-5 EDT.
>>Thanks for your interest.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
Here's a twist. Anyone in or near Scotland care to take a stab at this
rescue?
Attachment follows.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
On Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100, in vmsnet.pdp-11 you wrote:
>>From: Ian A McDonald <iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk>
>>Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
>>Subject: PDP-11/84's going free
>>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:34:19 +0100
>>Organization: St. Andrews University
>>Lines: 23
>>Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980506223042.10932A-100000@maths>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: maths.st-and.ac.uk
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>>NNTP-Posting-User: iam
>>X-Sender: iam(a)st-andrews.ac.uk
>>Path: blushng.jps.net!news.eli.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!server6.netnews.ja.net!st-and!maths!iam
>>
>>St. Andrews, Fife, Scotland
>>
>>2 off pdp-11/84 2mb
>>Processors fine,
>>disks dead,
>>
>>free to anyone who cares enough to save them from the skip.
>>I know little about their internals, but we've been ordered to skip them.
>>I'm hoping for a good home for them.
>>Unfortunately, it's a buyer collect deal, but we're asking no money.
>>
>>--
>>Ian
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Oh, God is playing marbles,
>>With His Planets and his Stars, 1084 New Hall,
>>Creating havoc through my life, St Andrews,
>>With his influence on Mars ... Fife,
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, SysOp,
The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272)
kyrrin {at} j<p>s d[o]t n=e=t
"...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe
an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly
define any of them!..."
At 03:56 29/04/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Believe it or not, I think there *was* a "Lemon" Apple clone. My father
>and I still occasionally joke about it. And we didn't get it from BYTE.
True!
Here in Italy there was a manufacturer that called theyr Apple clones "LEMON".
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONES ?
? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ?
? Pager(DTMF PHONES)=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ?
? where*=asterisk key |4 help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ?
? e-mail=chemif(a)mbox.queen.it ?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
<be interested. Will they be SYSGEN-able? That's one thing I miss in
<the RT-11 image that came with the emulator. But I'm not going to look
<a gift horse in the mouth.
Rt-11 does not require sysgening like RSX or RSTS So just the binaries of
the standard monitors (SJ, FB, XM and BJ) and the standard drivers
is all that's needed to use it effectively. RT-11 really only requires
the disk used to boot to have the boot blocks installed (copy/boot)
and it will run on all PDP11s and most all disks. Known disks supported
in v5 were the all the RXnn drives regardless of controller
(rx01/2/3/50/33) all the RD drives, RK drives, pro350(DW/DZ), TU58
tape(bootable and useable as system device) and most of the mag tapes.
V5 includes a ramdisk called VM that can even be booted assuming you have
plenty of ram. An 11/23 with 1meg ram running RT11FB will have plenty of
space in VM (about 1900 blocks) for a useful system. I know as I run it
on 11/03, 11/23, 11/73 using RL02, RD5x, RX50, RX33, rx02, TU58 and VM:.
A useable system fits on any 256k(497 blocks) dual device (tu58 or RX01).
A rx50(800blocks) system is fairly roomy. Any hard disk is fast and
plenty of room even small 5meg(10,000 blocks) RD50s. The full V5 kit
minus .mac files fits in about 4-5000 blocks. Removing the unused drivers
and other misc files really cuts this down. A block is 512bytes.
I didn't mention but RT-11 is NOT a memory hog and even a PDP-11 with
16kw can run a useful system. Being a low fat OS it is also very fast
permitting even slow PDP-11 processors a chance to look good. It's
basic commands look just like PC dos.
An emulated V4 system should be useable to do PDP-11 program development
and run standard monitors. the minimum hardware needed is any PDP11
(even the falcon card!) 16kw ram, mass storage (floppy or hard disk)
and at least one DL serial line (console). The boot an even be toggled
by hand.
Allison
Allison quoted me as having written:
> <What's that got to do with it? Diodes are analogue parts - the output
> <(current) is a continuous function of the input (voltage), not a
> <discrete one (to me the difference between an analogue and a digital
>
> Yes, but they don't (generally) amplify.
I think you may be confusing my remark with Tony's. I remarked that
"all circuits are amplifiers" meaning that the general circuit can be
modelled as taking an input, applying some sort of gain, and producing
an output. A gross oversimplification, but I wasn't talking about the
active/passive issue (gain>1 => active, etc.) Tony made a slightly
different remark, "Digital circuits are built with analogue parts".
Unlike mine, this is not an oversimplification, it is absolutely true.
And has nothing to do with amplifiers. You can build a digital circuit
element with diodes; they are analogue parts, and they don't amplify.
Clear now?
> <component). In fact, Allison, you were saying only a few days ago that
> <you don't need any amplification to make an analogue _computer_ (with
> <which I agree - although some of your examples I wouldn't call
> <computers).
>
> I still hold that amplification is a factor in the equation that an analog
> function may contain but it is not required.
I never (intensionally) disputed this!
> This is an analogue function, take a shot at the equation it solves.
I couldn't quite read your diagram, I'm afraid. Was it series capacitor
followed by shunt diode? Looks like it refers the input to the lowest
value it (the input) ever takes, rather than to ground or a fixed
reference.
> <For non-electronic digital computers, where do Facit mechanical
> <calculators lie? I have one (which is driven by an electric motor but
>
> Computers, mechanical, fixed program.
Roughly what I thought. I wasn't sure whether people would class it as
a computer, but I think it is no less of one than a 4-function pocket
calculator.
[pneumatics]
> You've not seen a modern production line that uses air logic. I've worked
No. I've seen some of the components in catalogues, though, and
wondered if they'd be of use in organ building, though!
> on one that was used to produce pharaceuticals that were in flamable bases
> (ethanol). There was some fairly complex logic in that system. Working
Sounds fun!
> with it is like designing with relays.
I can imagine.
Philip.
Is there a limit to how big a RSTS filesystem can be?
I'm told 8.0-07 doesn't support RA92s. But the fact that INIT knows what
it is tells me otherwise. All I have to do is find the CMP instruction
stopping me from formatting this disk and off we go. The question is,
is the RSTS filesystem used in 8.0-07 able to handle a drive this size?
Is there some filesystem-induced wall I'm about to walk into?
-------
Of course everything I've dragged home in the last few months simply pales
in comparison to the prototype Apple //c I brought home today.
I was on my way back to work in the early afternoon and was trying to
decide if I should stop at my favorite thrift store on the way which would
put me in traffic, or if I should cut across the hills to get back
quicker. I thought to myself that there may just be something at the
thrift store that would make the trip worth it, so the thoughts of finding
something cool won over my need to get back to the office. This is one
case where I'm glad I let my irrational urges get the best of me.
The first thing I saw when I got to the electronics section was an Apple
//c, and I thought to myself, "Hmmm...do I want another //c?" (since I
have like 3 already). But when I picked it up I noticed something strange
about it. The case was smooth instead of having the normal texture. I
flipped it over and noticed there was a small green sticker on the bottom
instead of the normal grey one with the Apple //c wording and part
numbers, etc. The sticker read "Apple Computer Inc., PCSD MFG, 3087 North
First Street, San Jose, CA 95134" then the words "Prototype" and "Test
Equipment" with check boxes next to each. "Prototype" was checked off.
Of course phrases like "holy shit" went through my head. The label also
had a serial number of "P1160" and at the bottom was "WARNING: PROPRIETARY
PRODUCT". Now this was too cool for words to describe (<--- isn't that
deliciously nerdy?)
When I got home I opened it up along with a regular production //c and
started comparing the motherboards of the two. There were several minor
differences. Some silkscreen lettering was different and there were a
couple minor component changes, but nothing significant and for the most
part the board layout was identical.
I pulled out the power supply on the prototype and the production model
which unveiled the following:
Prototype Production
--------- ----------
TERI MAIN LOGIC MAIN LOGIC
820-0115-0 820-0115-C
(c) 1983 APPLE COMPUTER
APPLE COMPUTER (c) 1983
Was "TERI" the codename for the Apple //c?
A couple other interesting differences: on the prototype, there was a
small board with the labeling "Apple Computer Network SKA156-00" in the
place near the serial port where on the production model is a simple
transistor pack. The "network" board simply has transistors on it. Also,
at location C19 on the proto is a 74LS161 whereas on the production there
is a 1.8432 Mhz crystal. On the proto, the CHAR GEN EPROM is socketed and
the system ROM is an EPROM with a sticker which has "v1.0 5/19 5F85"
written on it. Lastly, for the motherboard product number (all Apple
components have a product number in the form of xxx-xxxx-x) the proto had
6xx-xxxx-whereas the production has 612-0128-E.
Oh yeah, the proto had a spider living in the connector of the power
supply. Spiders find the stupidest places to spin their web. What the
hell did he expect to come crawling through there!? I was just going to
flick him off into the room but if my wife found him a couple days from
now she would've fainted, so I did away with the poor little sucker.
R.I.P.
Here's where you envious types shoot yourself: I paid $2.98 for it.
:)
I've found some of the best stuff in thrift stores, but this beats all.
It will be proudly displayed right next to my prototype Apple //gs at the
next Vintage Computer Festival.
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't blame me...I voted for Satan.
Coming in September...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details!
[Last web page update: 05/03/98]
