Hi. It just occured to me: Apple is known (with the ][) to have pioneered
low cost floppy drives. They're the ones that made it a good alternitive to
tape. But still, I agree, floppies arn't really an important part today,
other than a remembrance of the past. (Has anyone seen those "Download
warehouses" wherer you download software?)
Tim D. Hotze
-----Original Message-----
From: Kai Kaltenbach <kaikal(a)MICROSOFT.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, May 08, 1998 3:34 AM
Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac
>I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless",
since
>the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have
>about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in
>the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The
>big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so
>turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's
>nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube
>it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me.
>
>Kai
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org]
>Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM
>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
>Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac
>
>
>At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote:
>>One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy)
>
>Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which
>worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been
>the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring
>the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of
>evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with.
>
>__________________________________________
>Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
> http://www.chac.org/index.html
>Computer History Association of California
>
<From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)wco.com>
<Now contrast this with an analog filter, which performs a singular
<function based on the laws of physics. No instructions, no codes, no
<processing unit. Therein lies the distinction.
The explanations of physics is based on the core of mathmatics.
That's one way to look at it. Consider it from the perspective of a
mathmatics view. Signal goes in FNC(x) is performed on it and signal
comes out. FNC(x) can be performed using a DSP or analog circuits
>from the outside of the black box dos it make much difference how?
Computing is a process of calculation. Analogue functions perform
calculation vastly different than the digital forms it does not negate
the calculation performed. If this wasn't true digial signal processing
would not be possible.
I still have the Popular Electronics article that simulates the bounce of
a ball in analogue form using opamps while displaying it graphically on a
scope. Yes the ball would even flatten at the bottom of the bounce.
Years later I would write a program to do the same, the mathmatics were
unchanged as where the physics. The analogue form was faster at showing
how small changes had an effect, it could be real time. The digital form
allowed me to express those as floatingpoint numbers. Even on a PDP11 at
the time, it would never approach real time.
Allison
I don't know if I'd characterize the Sony 400K as "totally blameless", since
the floppy drives in all of my other old systems (both 5.25" and 3.5") have
about a 5% dead-on-acquire rate, while the Mac 128s I find are maybe 75% in
the dead floppy department. The 800K drives were much more reliable. The
big 400K chassis has lots of lubricant on it which after 10 years or so
turns into a rubber cement consistency and gums up the works. There's
nothing to do but to hit the whole thing with TV Tuner cleaner and re-lube
it. Pain in the butt, if you ask me.
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Kip Crosby [mailto:engine@chac.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 4:47 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: RE: the new Apple iMac
At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote:
>One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy)
Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which
worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been
the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring
the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of
evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
>If this new Mac has no removeable media, what happens when the hard
>drive breaks? How do you re-install the OS?
No doubt you'll re-install the OS from the built-in CD-ROM drive, as all
Apple machines already do now.
>
>Good plan, system administrators will love this machine. No doubt
>corporate types will beat down Apple's door to buy it.
Quite clearly, this machine is not designed as a Corporate machine. One
look at the physical design alone is enough to establish that this is for
home use. Apple continues to sell quite traditionally designed machines
for THAT market segment.
----
And now that we've all hashed and re-hashed the merits of this day-old
computer, can we return to discussing our 10-year old classics? Let's all
agree to meet and re-evaluate the iMac in 2008.
<Non electronic digital _computers_ are a lot rarer. If we decide that a
<computer has to have a sequence of operations and some kind of
<conditional branching, I can't think of any at the moment. Mechanical
<sequencers, based normally on camshafts are common, of course.
You kidding, air logic has been around for years and frequently used in
atmospheres or other considerations that would prohibit using electronic
or electically power controls. The basic elements such as switchs valves
and oneshots all exist and can be combined into digital functions. I know
I demonstrated a system where several inputs (switches) had to be true
before a sequenced action using two bistable elements and a oneshot. It's
not fast but fun to watch!
<Are you thinking of 'Digital circuits are built from analogue parts' ?
Not a valid concept. both OR and AND gates can be done using totally
non amplifying devices (diodes).
It was Vonda that postulated that digital was analogue with a precision
of two states, true and false. The realm of analogue is one of infinite
precision but possibly of limited accuracy. The digital realm is one of
limited precision and absolute accuracy.
<As a practical point for this list, if just about all (analogue) circuits
<are analogue computers, then they are on-topic here :-). No I don't
As a final thought, analogue circuits often perform complex functions.
This very aspect and the realization that precision and accuracy are
very differnt commodities are why some fuction are easy to do using an
analogue approach and can be very difficult to do digitally.
Allison
I can imagine a floppy disk stealing his college thesis. Pretty
likely, actually. AFAIK, though, NO NeXT has shipped with floppies,
but rather with MOs, which are pretty annoying because of the many
formats and price per disk.
Actually, if I were to design a computer, I would consider not
including a floppy drive, or at least making it so that it doesn't
depend on it.
Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges
>personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his
sister?
>Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own?
>
>Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past,
>it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long.
>
>> Tom
>
>-Seth
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
At 16:15 5/7/98 -0700, Kai wrote:
>One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy)
Agreed, but: The Twiggy drive was superseded by the Sony 400K 3.5, which
worked fine in the Lisa, went on to work fine in the Mac 128, and has been
the progenitor of a line of totally blameless drives. If Steve is tarring
the 3.5 with the brush of the Twiggy, he's doing it in the teeth of
evidence that he's thoroughly familiar with.
__________________________________________
Kip Crosby engine(a)chac.org
http://www.chac.org/index.html
Computer History Association of California
Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges
>personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his
sister?
>Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own?
One word....Twiggy
Anyone who ever used a twiggy floppy drive would swear off floppies
forever.
Jack Peacock
Well I found agood home for the otherwise in my way terminals and the
new owner is in need of a keyboard for the VT 100 and the VT 220. A few
people wrote me in the past but I'm not sure who it was but if you email
me direct I can relay your message to this person in New Hamster and he
can contact you about them. He is getting working units for the cost of
shipping and I imagine he has some collection intent for them
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
ICQ UIN #1714857
AOL Instant Messenger "RHBLAKEMAN"
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Jobs is known to hold grudges
>personally against floppies. Did a floppy drive try to kill his
sister?
>Insult his family? Steal his college thesis and claim it as its own?
>
>Whatever grievous harm a floppy drive has done to him in the past,
>it must have been quite bad for him to hold a grudge this long.
One word: "Twiggy". (Lisa 1 floppy)
Kai
