> C'mon. Even I basically know this one. A hard sectored diskette has tiny
> little holes (IIRC, near the inside), so that the computer would move from
> one to the next in a mechanical manner (hardware), while MOST soft sectored
> diskettes had a single hole used for refference. From there, it would just
> spin around, and control the rest by software. The Apple II, however,
> COMPLETELY ignored this. It could use hard sectored or soft sectored
> diskettes, or even diskettes with no little hole at all. It was completely
> software driven.
Likewise the Commodore 8-bitters. In the early 1980s, I was one of the
first in my school (I was 14 or so at the time) to own a floppy disk
(yes, a disk, not a drive). I had heard of "flippy disks" with two
index holes, which you could turn over, thus using both surfaces in a
single sided drive. But I didn't realise you needed to give it a second
index hole.
So I just cut a second write-permit notch and turned it over. It
worked! Commodore 4040 didn't use the index hole!
Philip.
><> And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages
><> I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic.
><> [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the
><> circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts
><> directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term]
> Mechanical: man or motor powered, bars cams, wheels
> Electric: Relays, steppers, solonoids and contacts has logic tree.
> Electronic: uses active devices, tubes, transistors, ICs some types of
> diodes and neon filled tubes.
A good definition, I could agree, althrough I've seen
Electric and Electronic the same, since a relay isn't
diferent from a transistor or a tube for the effekt
(beside the current).
Servus
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Sorry, folks. We have some intermittent mail problems here and I
accidentally got set to POSTPONE again.
If Hans Franke (or anyone else) has posted a reply to my Robotron query,
please send me - privately - another copy. Address,
Philip.Belben(a)powertech.co.uk
Thanks.
Philip.
> Recently, I just got an old Mac IIci, which has 40M HDD & 8M RAM. After
> all, I added the RAM to 32M, and also want to change the stupid 40M SCSI
> HDD to a larger one.... But the problem is, I just can't find a diskette
> version of Mac OS 7.5.x for it... What can I do...??
> If anyone has the old Mac OS, would you all pls make a copy for me?? I will
> pay the shipping and diskette cost..... (Coz, I don't think if I can get a
> new copy from APPLE.. :( )
Buy a external SCSI CD-ROM and install from CD - they should be
sill availabe at Apple dealers (the CDs) - maybe they even give
the CD away for free. Maybe they even lend you the CD drive for a
small fee. The other solution is just to keep the 40 MB drive
and use it as boot drive or, third solution, just use it once
paralell to copy the system folder. If you plan to use the ci
futher, a CD is a must to auire new soft.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
>> The first programable general purpose computer is for shure
>> the Z1. And the first electronic computer is the Z3 since
>> the Z1 was just mechanical. Also both are the first binary
>> floating point computers (Babage used decimal wheels).
> Hey! They can't both be the first floating point binary machine!
> Presumably the Z1 was.
Z1 first computer, first floating point and binary computer
but mechanical. Z3 the same (but better) and electronical.
> And (though no doubt I'll find I'm wrong when I look at those web pages)
> I thought Z3 was a relay machine, not electronic.
> [Distinction. Relay - switching is performed by moving parts of the
> circuit. Electronic, whether tubes or solid state, switching acts
> directly on the electrons (or holes), hence the term]
Different definition:
In mechanical computers (and calculators) the information is
proccessed and transported by mechanical actions/things - like
wheels or pushin/pulling bars.
In electronical computers information is processed and transported
by flow of electricity.
So the Z1 is pure mechanical (the only electrcal component
was (is) the motor to drive all bars), while the Z3 is
electronical. The Z2 was in fact a mixed up - The storage
memory was mechanical (used from the Z1) but the CPU was
electronic (Relais). You see ? There are mix ups already
in the early evolution - Zuse even thought about using
tubes instead of relais, but they have been way to expensive.
Later on there have been again mixed ups. Relais + mechanical
+ tubes - or Tubes plus transistors + relais ... and so on.
(Oh and even my APPPLE ][+ was a mixed up - he utilized
a relay on the 80 colum card for switching :)
> Was the Z3 like the Z4 in using old 35mm cine film for punched tape?
> (don't try and read it with an optical reader!!!!)
Never heard of opto-mechanics ? *g*
In fact all early Zuse computers used old cine tapes.
Z1, Z2, Z3, Z4.
>> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of
>> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623.
> What date was Pascal's calculator, someone?
1642
> Irony of the week: the
> Pascal calculator in the London Science Museum is a decimal model. That
> in the Deutches Museum is a Pounds, Shillings and Pence model. :-)
Afaik they also own a decimal one, but Pounds, Shillings and Pence
ar _way_way_way_ more exotic :) - It gets a lot more attention than
'just' decimal calculaters, althrough the difference are only some
of the wheels.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
>>> P.S.: The first calculatin machine might be the one of
>>> Wilhelm Schickard from 1623.
>> Johann Kepler tried to build some kind of calculator too I think.
> Does Blaise Pascal's box count?
19 Jears to late - Pascals machine is dated 1942.
But thinking again, we should define what a 'calulatoer'
is for our search of the first one - Right now I prefer
the definition of a macanic machine to add and subtract
numbers, displayed in (decimal) digits by pointers or
similar, without restrictions to special numbers. This
excludes analogous calculators and special purpose thingis.
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
At 02:04 AM 6/19/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, dave dameron wrote:
>
>> I have a bunch of stuff on the 8008, some too much for me to easily copy
>> completely, including the MCS-8 8008 Users Manual (126 pages).
>
>That sounds interesting. How much of that is just instruction set? If
>that chapter is smallish, a copy would be great! I'm looking for info
>sufficient to write a simulator, so ISA + exceptions/interrupts/etc.
>should do the trick.
>
The stuff on instructions, timing states, interrupts, etc. is about 12 pages.
The 8008 instructions (48) are simple enough that someone just learning how
to write a computer program (Me back then) could understand all of them.
Interesting, back then, 1973, Intel sold a simulator as a Fortran IV program, or
it could be run on a time-share service. Also a cross assembler. The
resident assembler took 2k - 8 1702 EPROMS for their SIM8 microcomputer board.
>> In the 1976 Intel Data catalog, there is a 7 page data sheet:
>> Page 1 Title and block diag.
>> page 2 Photomicrograph
>> Page 3 Functional pin description
>> Page 4,5 Instruction set
>> Page 6 Ratings, D.C., A.C. characteristics
>> Page 7 Timing Diagram
>
>Good stuff, but I've already had one offer for a copy. Since it's small,
>I'll try to get around to web-izing it. (Intel copyright lawyers be
>damned! (At least until they ask me to take it down.))
>
>-- Doug
>
-Dave
I just picked up a bag full of 5.25" disks, that are completely
soaked by rain. How do I dry them so that
a)they are usable at least long enough to transfer the software
b)I run a reasonable chance of saving the labels
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
You might want to check out the MDP-8008 Assembler Users Manual at:
http://jldh449-1.intmed.mcw.edu/assembler-doc.html
-Mike
----------
From: dave dameron
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 5:47 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: 8008 Datasheets
Hi Doug and all,
At 05:04 PM 6/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anybody have Intel 8008 datasheets that they're willing to copy for
>me? I'll gladly pay for the copying/shipping.
>
>
I have a bunch of stuff on the 8008, some too much for me to easily copy
completely, including the MCS-8 8008 Users Manual (126 pages).
In the 1976 Intel Data catalog, there is a 7 page data sheet:
Page 1 Title and block diag.
page 2 Photomicrograph
Page 3 Functional pin description
Page 4,5 Instruction set
Page 6 Ratings, D.C., A.C. characteristics
Page 7 Timing Diagram
-Dave
They're on the web at:
www.sunrem.com
Mike
----------
From: Ken Yaksa
Sent: Friday, June 19, 1998 2:06 AM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Re: Old Mac OS.... Help PLS!
Hi Pamela Allison:
> If you can't find one, check with Sun Remarketing in Smithfield Utah.
They will sell all the way back to version 3.2 on 400 k disks.
But the problem is that I live in Hong Kong.... :(
