>pretty much a non-starter. The Altair was an improvement, but it was a
>pretty much a non-starter that fizzled after about 10,000 units. The
it that day 10,000 was a lot of systems!
< >Altair was the grandfather of the S-100 bus and CP/M, both of which
< >fizzled and left only a minor mark on MS-DOS, which didn't fizzle.
S100 would be dominent through the mid 80s. S100 system were being built
with 80386s and ran faster than the PCs with same.
I have a Compupro 8086/8088 10mhz that was faster than any IBM PC
hardware in 1982.
CP/M left a major mark on MS-dos being the source point!
Also the idea of a BIOS is a CP/M concept.
< >survivor. So, if somebody were really looking at collecting Altairs as
< >machine that "started it all", I think they have been misled and would
< >better off collecting the IBM PC, early Apples, early HP desktops, the
< >PDP-8, and all of the PDP-1's they can find :-)
To many slighly older PDP-8 and HPs were the early for runners for the
small size and proximate affordability.
< money, the prices lept ahead - but only in the brands which the collecto
< recognised. The Altair is recognised as significant, is relativly
< uncommon, and every article on computer history sings it's praises. You
< could almost guarentee that the prices would go up.
It's significance was that it was real and well exposed by Popular
Electronics. The Mark-8 was less real in that it wasn't available as a
complete kit or well presented. There are predecessor machines to both.
If we want the first Microcomputer why not the intel MCS-8? You could buy
one complete before either Mark-8 or Altair by many years.
As to extoling the virtues, altair was in teh right place at the right
time. Technically it was a DOG. The IMSAI was a vastly superior machine.
Allison
Geez, I'll bet our own Jim Willing is pretty disappointed that his only sold
for $4213.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24405966
What the heck is with that? Two Altairs auctioned simultaneously, with a 3x
price differential.
Guess I'm sitting on a fortune with my 5 Altairs, but I'd never sell them
(and I mean that, whereas Jim used to say he'd never sell his either).
Kai
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Yowza [mailto:yowza@yowza.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 13, 1998 12:34 PM
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
Subject: Altair prices
$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570
(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do you
think?)
That's a 600% increase from the last batch, and even beats the last Apple
1 sale I know of. I'll bet that the bidders get solicitations for about
100 Altairs in the next few days.
-- Doug
I spent part of the morning troubleshooting my BA123, turns out that I
didn't have a blown powersupply <whew>, instead I had managed to short the
power plug that goes to the TK-50, got that fixed, and it powers up just
fine. So I then pulled out the MicroVAX II CPU, memory, and some other
boards, and turned it into a PDP-11/23 :^)
However, I'm finding myself fighting the path that 'snakes' through the
backplane. Would someone be kind enough to explain it to me? I wish DEC
had done like SMS did and print it on the case! It's real easy to add and
remove Q-Bus cards from my SMS-1000's. I'm interested in both the BA23 and
BA123 backplanes.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
< Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not been
< able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came with a PCjr
I've seen it on PC xts, DEC VAXmates and S100 8086 boxen.
I still have disks with the original distribution markings (long since
reformatted).
Allison
Being the custodian of an Altair, an IMSAI system, a clutch of
NorthStars, etc., etc.... I am of the opinion that any activity
which tends to *preserve* the items of our interest is intrinsically
a Good Thing.
I am a user and a collector of old systems, and I empathasize
strongly with the "Collect to Use" folks on this list. BUT: having
spent many years in the electronic surplus business, I also know that
side of things. Bob is making a good living in collectible computers
just now... 16 hrs a day 7 days a week (my kind of hours!!).... he
has discovered and turned over many classic systems... which would
be *where* today if not for his efforts??
I understand the frustration when dilletantes invade and a
collectible 'fad' develops... it does, unfortunately, prevent some
of us from having the hardware we want. I wish that wasn't so, but
it *is* the free market.
There are, however, many aspects of this hobby... and there are
some who collect to use, some who 'warehouse', some who collect to
trade.
To me, it all means that fewer Altairs will be lost forever....
My $.02, anyway.
Cheers
John
PS: My Altair came from a big rack of 70's-era aerospace test
systems... I first saw it in one of the buildings of the surplus
company I worked for from 78 - 82. At that time, it was just one of
those wierd old S-100 machines... and I couldn't afford the IMSAI I
wanted... I ended up with a Cromemco Z2H. It was not until I
joined this list that I remembered about the Altair.. so I went
back to the old place, got the keys to the room.. and there it was,
dusty and forgotten. I paid my ex-boss $50 for it, and the rescue
was done. No, there aren't any more... trust me, I *looked* ;}
J
OK... that's the -last- time I try to write something coherent when it's
the night after a 90-degree day, near midnight, with a temperature still in
the high 70's.
Bob, I must apologize to both you and the list. You caught the brunt of
one of my foulest moods to date. It's all to easy to forget that if the
seller and buyer are both happy with the price, fine. A good deal was struck.
However it's done, keeping vintage machines out of the hands of scrappers
is always a worthy goal. I may not always agree about pricing, but that's me.
I'll see a bunch of you at VCF 2.0. ;-)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272)
(Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin(a)jps.net)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
At 04:12 AM 8/14/98 -0400, Doug Spence wrote:
>Yes, it is odd that these models have no serial port. I remember bringing
>this up before about my 1000EX and being told I must've somehow missed
>seeing the port. :)
You mean I'm not crazy for not seeing this "invisible port" everyone was
talking about? :)
BTW, I never did return to the flea market to retreive that 1000 HX. It was
raining, I had the baby with me, it was bad karma all around. Maybe next
year...
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
This is good. If I'm lucky and things keep going like they are, my Apple
collection, which at original list prices is worth around $60k, should soon be
worth twice that. And, my PS/2 Model 80, which originally listed for $10k, will
bring that price again.
All we can hope for is that this craze will go the way of collectible sports cars --
after a short period of total insanity in which people were willing to pay $90k
OVER LIST PRICE just to get on a waiting list for an Acura NSX or a Viper, the
bottom fell out and nobody wanted to buy them from the morons who paid
double price for 'em.
I just hope that Jag XKE's come down to reality sometime again so I can own
one. And, I'd actually drive the damn thing instead of putting it up on blocks
under a cover in a locked, climate-controlled garage...........
Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware(a)laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware
