I wonder how many other people on this list have worked on pinball
>>machines/video games (coin ops)?
>
>Guilty! Still do!!
>
>One of my first electronics based paying jobs was with a now long gone
>outfit called "Digital Design Concepts", whos main claim to fame was a
>video game (called the "Video 5" which played five different (more or
less,
>all 'pong' styled) games.
>
>Quite radical for the time...
>
>-jim
Don't know if you are aware of it but the video arcade game
collecting hobby is about as close as it can get
to being a mirror image of the classic computer hobby.
It started at roughly the same time and has a very active
and fast growing newsgroup <rec.games.video.arcade.collecting>.
And, as I'm sure you know,
all of the innovations and developments put into the
coin-ops essentially follow the timeline of that for
computers. And that is the foundation of their collecting
interest as well. Many of them are employed by the computer
industry as chip designers, software specialists, etc.
And, eerily, their newsgroup recently devoted
a great many long threads to the resistance of many to price
increases just as is happening to computer collecting.
Interestingly, though, while game collecting and
computer collecting have so much in common - I am unaware
of anyone who is a serious participant of both. Don't
know why that is. But if you have not yet visited their
newsgroup I think you will find it entertaining.
Bob Wood
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OK, I just had my "Big Haul" delivered (you've got to love people that want
to get rid of stuff so bad that they deliver it to you). I'll have more on
this later. At the moment, I've got a question about packs. Are "NASHUA
4443" Packs RL01 packs? Also is there a way to tell RL01 and RL02 packs
that aren't DEC packs apart?
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
but I can't
>say that I will look forward to your posts either, especially if they
are
>about latest acquisitions/sales...
>
> Megan Gentry
>
>Not a problem Megan. As I said in the first post I
anticipated exactly your reaction. I have been reading
the list for months and I realize what it is intended
for and what it means to y'all (excuse that, I am a
Southern boy). I have never had any intention to become
a regular contributor because I really am not capable
of any type of contribution that the list was intended
for. The only reason that I spewed forth with it this time
is that I was bursting to tell someone and if I told
anyone else but you guys they wouldn't even know what
the hell an Altair was.
There will be no more acqusitions to tell about. I stumbled
onto a way to get them and now it is all over with. So
unless somewhere they are building some more used Altairs
that is it for me.
Let me say one other thing in passing to all the people
who have pointed out that I have missed out on something
by never learning the fun of poking around in these computers
to see how they tick. You are right! I am sitting here with
a Proc Tech factory made copy of Star Trek on cassette.
Being a very serious video arcade game buff it is just
about killing me that I cannot see it work. I have
no earthly idea how to get my SOL to show it to me. And
I want to see it bad, bad, bad! I am extremely fortunate
enough to have both it and all the hardware to allow
me to see it. But because I never tinkered around inside
these computers I may never be able to see it play.
So I am not the enemy believe me. I truly respect all
of you folks for the abilities you have. And I want
to chime in here and fully agree with a post from yesterday
which stated that of all of the places on the Internet which
I have ever visited this one, hands down, has the most thoughtful
people of any I have ever encountered.
I hope you can keep your hobby as pure as you want it
to be. I would never want to do anything to interfere
with that.
Thanks for listening to my ramblings and, who knows,
maybe someday I will be lucky enough to actually meet
some of you at the Computer Festival. I hope so.
Regards,
Your friend and supporter.
Bob Wood
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
In a message dated 98-08-14 21:36:00 EDT, Kees put forth:
<< PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive
access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was
so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was
the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were
versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added. >>
I dont understand the issue about the floppy drive "slowed down" AFAIK, its
just a regular old 360k drive. I think it may be the same drive as what's on
the 5155 machine. It probably has more to do with the lack of DMA on the pcjr
rather than anything else.
david
>> >$12100 for the world's flakiest S-100 box:
>> > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24409570
>> >
>> >(and the reserve was still not met, but I bet the guy sells, what do
you
>> >think?)
>>
>> I think this whole auction reeks of bull-shit! Everything from
the
>> opening bid of $2500 to reserve of OVER $12,000 and the seller's
>> insistance of 1 day UPS delivery smells of being a FAKE!
>
>Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise
>the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of
>them on the market.
>
>Or someone may just be that stupid.
>
>Two theories. Take your pick.
Before this wild speculation goes any further let me
try to sets your minds somewhat at ease.
As you would expect it was my natural reflex
to offer a computer to the 2nd bidder. I have now had
several back and forth emails with him. He is, like
yourselves, an avid classic computer collector with
500 pieces including An Apple 1. He has Altairs but
not the original 8800. Hi explanation for the wide
difference in his bids on the two auctions is that
he put great value on the additional boards (the S-100
Hayes modem, a rare CPU, the video cards, etc. etc. etc.)
He is willing to pay no more for the straight computer than
his bid on Willing's auction. Now I know that most will
not agree with his assessment but that is not the point.
The point is that he is indeed a legitimate participant
I cannot, however, get into the mind of the woman who
entered the high bid. After having listed several hundred
Ebay items I can guess though. In a word - impulsiveness.
I have seen it time and again with my own auctions. In
my experience about 15% of my high bidders renig. When
I then offer the items to my 2nd bidders they will choose
not to accept about 95% of the time. This is nothing new
to online auctions (excepting that it is harder to renig
in a live auction). Auction bidding is done impulsively
and when given an opportunity to change their minds
most bidders will choose to do so.
So for whatever appeal the Altair has to her she probably
got caught up in the last minute frenzy and may have plenty
of money to be able to do so with no pain whatsoever. Or,
who knows, maybe she was buying it for someone else. There is
no way to know unless she chooses to tell us. Maybe someone has
been in contact with her and will tell us.
Of course there is always the possibility that she was a
shill. However, it is highly unlikely, given how the auction
ended.
Keep in mind that there was no offical transaction here. With
the reserve not met no one was committed to buy anything.
Much more interesting to me, than the bidders in this auction,
was the seller. What must he have been thinking to come up with such
a laughably unrealsitic reserve (and we don't know how laughable
because we don't know how high it was). I thought I had seen
just about every abberation Ebay could offer but I cannot
get into his head at all.
The bottom line is that this auction in no way contributes
to our trying to get a handle on how others now value an Altair.
Willing's outcome, however, is a more valid indicator of that.
But any auction price is only a contributing factor and should
be taken only that way.
To answer your other question, Sam, sure I would be glad to
reveal how I bought the MITS stuff. But all it would serve
to do is piss off others because it is something that every single
reader of this list could just as easily have done. Frankly,
I remained amazed for the year and a half I had it to myself,
that no one figured it out. But if I lay it out I will again
be chastised. I will be told that it is materialistic and irrelevant
because all that
matters is tinkering with the computers. Are you sure you want
to hear all that again?
Bob
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
It is likely that I am the only person on this
list who is a total "outsider". I am a collectibles
dealer. I never touched a computer keyboard until
two years ago. I will now probably be asked to leave
but before that happens I would like to share my
Altair "experiences" with you. This will be long
winded so if you are only interested in "sound-bite"
length messages hit your back button now. This little story
cannot be told in a couple of sentences.
I no longer remember how I learned of the existence
of the Altair 8800 but it was about a year and a half
ago. I learned about the history of it and it's
association with the beginning of Gates' and Allen's
business careers. I decided that the Altair's potentially could
be a big deal so I started looking for them.
Almost immediately I discovered a source. I bought eight
of them for from $100 to $300 apiece in about two months time.
At that time the price edged up to $3-500 so I said to
hell with it and stopped buying. I then put it all on the back
burner for six months.
Then, earlier this year, someone
offered to buy one from me for $800. I thought this was a sucker
price so gladly let it go. Two weeks later, that last
batch of Altairs and drives went on Ebay. The computers
sold for roughly $2K apiece. As a lark, I immediately listed a
MITS serial board and modem board on Ebay. At the time
I was so ignorant about what I had that I listed them
separately. I did not even know that together they are
a cassette interface. One brought $250 and the other $200.
I could not believe it. $450!
Like everyone on this list, I was somewhat shocked that
the computers had actually sold for $2K. When I first discovered
this list (six months ago) I posted asking for your opinions
of the value
of an Altair 8800. As always, you all were very responsive.
I vividly remember Jim Willing stating that, in his opinion,
the 8800 was worth $250.
So I concluded that the $2000 Ebay bids
must be the "real" sucker price. I offered the
buyer of my boards one of my 8800's
for $2K. Sold it.
Then a week later sold him two more for $1500 each.
I now had payed for every Altair item I had ever
bought and had a tidy profit as well. I was ecstatic.
Then, needless to say, I started to actively buy them again.
Went back to my one (and only) source and bought four more
8800's, one 8800a, two 8800b's, one turnkey b, one Attache, seven
Altair floppy drives, two MITS hard drives, controllers,
four Imsai's, three Sol 20's, every iminaginable software,
and enough docs and literature to fill a four
drawer filing cabinet. And I stumbled onto what
may be the only surviving example of a still unassembled
Altair 8800 kit. Up until last week I had been able
to have it all shipped to me but the last load was too much
to ship so I drove almost 2000 miles round trip to retrieve
it.
When I returned Friday a friend informed me that two
Altairs had been listed the day before on Ebay.
(I still do not understand the amazing coincidence
of two separate sellers listing Altair's within 35 minutes
of each other since it had been four months since the last
ones were listed).
It occurred to me that since the Altair's were about to be
hyped again that I should participate. Since I had just
come home with five Altair floppy drives, I decided that
was the logical thing to sell. The auction ends today (Friday).
My source for buying ended abruptly last week (that is
another whole story). So it is unlikely that I will be able
to buy any
more. I now think of the six months I passed on them because
I would have had to pay $400. If I had kept buying during that
time I would have a great many more of them now.
But I feel very fortunate to have the ones I do.
Why am I telling you all of this? It is because I have
been engaged in buying and selling collectibles for
25 years. I was in on the beginnings of many other
of these kinds of phenomena (jukeboxes, antique radio,
Coca-Cola, the list is long). But I have never had so
much fun as I have had with this. There is no doubt that
my involvement with it is totally different from that
of everyone else on this list. And I am certain that
(based on much of what I have read here) that many
will find it deplorable that someone like me is a
subscriber.
But the personal computer is now as important as the electric
lamp was 100 years ago. And, over time, the first examples
will be regarded with the same reverance as Edison's first
light bulbs. I feel lucky to be one of the people witnessing
the birth of that.
Bob Wood
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Well I still have alot to sort out but here is a short list of finds for
this week:
1) Beckman model 999 IC tester have not powered it up yet
2) Two Radius MacII Page Display cards
3) About 30+ different books, spec sheets, and manual
4) 28 game cartridges for the Vic20
5) 4 2600 game cartridges
6) 2 C64 cartridges
7) Various Apple II cards
8) A clone Numeric keypad for the Apple II
9) 2 Vic20 power supplies not tested
10) 1 Plus/4 power supply not tested
11) HES Mon mini assember for use with Vic20 in box with manual
12) Cardram 16k memory expansion cartridge for thr Vic20
13) Radio Shack and other brand computer cassette tapes - new
That's all I can list for now as I still have a van loaded with boxes and
about 6 boxes of items to sort in the garage. I will update later with
anything of importance. Keep Computing!! John
On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:56:27 +0200 (CEST), colan said:
cl>Someone posted saying that there in fact was a 2.11 which I've not
cl>been able to find reference to. By any chance was that what came
cl>with a PCjr?
PCDOS 2.1 was released specifically for the PCjr. 2.1's floppy drive
access was slowed down considerably because the drive in the PCjr was
so flimsy that it would break if it was used faster. MSDOS 2.11 was
the generic version available from Microsoft, and there also were
versions 2.2 and 2.25 with specific international support added.
"In march 1984, a year after the PC-XT introduction, IBM released DOS
version 2.1 to excise these software errors [that were in verson 2.0]
and to handle a hardware error it produced, called the PCjr."
Try to find "DOS Power Tools" by Paul Somerson, ISBN 0-553-34526-5,
Bantam computer books, from which is the above quote. It has very
detailed explanations of the workings of DOS, a great many tips and
tricks, a disk with 200 PC Magazine machine code utilities, and a
long chapter on the development of DOS, from 1.0 to 3.3, which was
the latest version when the book was printed.
Kees
--
Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - pb0aia at amsat dot org
Sysadmin and DEC PDP/VAX preservationist - http://vaxarchive.ml.org
Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered
>Interesting point. This auction could have been staged simply to raise
>the perceived value of the Altair 8800 just before someone dumps 25 of
>them on the market.
>
>Or someone may just be that stupid.
>
>Two theories. Take your pick.
What's the old saying?
"Never attribute to malice what should be attributed to stupidity?"
(Or something like that)
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
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