At 09:56 PM 8/17/98 -0500, Doug Yowza wrote:
>OK, it's been killing me, so I've just gotta ask. What do you do with a
>C64 running at 20MHz? Play a *really* fast game of Ms. Pacman?
>
>-- Doug (from his 200MHz IMSAI 8080)
Tsk, tsk! ONLY 200mhz??? Didn't you see the IMSAI overclocking FAQ???
:)
-
- john higginbotham ____________________________
- webmaster www.pntprinting.com -
- limbo limbo.netpath.net -
< Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of
< Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it
< goin'.
Sounds like a good thing. There are people in RI and south RI doing
this as well.
Allison
< then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down
< to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized
< 'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the
< backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was
< a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large
< holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting
< corresponding pins of successive backplane slots...
I have a bunch of them still, for exactly that use! Handy for home made
backplanes!
Allison
< two minutes? that is slow... I can boot my TU-58 based system
< in 30 seconds... (I engineered an optimized TU58 many years
< ago when people within Digital were asking how to get it to boot
< faster). It involves specific placement of various RT-11
< files on one of the four recording tracks. For those who wanted
< the system to run faster once booted, you could additionally take
< the step of loading stuff into VM and rebooting it it...
Having done that (I have a system I can demonstrate) plus the VM: trick
it's possible to build a really nice system using TU58 only! It's in the
V5 RT11 doc set.
FYI for the 11/730 hackers the TU58 boot tape for that beast also has an
optimum order for faster booting.
< (depending on the rev of the 11/23... only Rev.C could
< do so).
I've found earlier revs do, but not all and they may fail diagnostics
while appearing to work normally. I try to reserve 11/23 (KDF11-A M8186)
to 256k unless I've verified it's a REV-C or later and tested it.
The later 11/23B (KDF11-B M8189) is Q22 and saves needing a boot rom/card.
They are common enough.
Allison
More like a crummy computer. I think the school had bought it used for $50
(or it was donated), and it wouldn't even run Win 3.1. It had Win 3.0 (1
MEG RAM). When I was looking at it, the power supply (this is from 1991)
pumped out a huge 32 watts. I'm surprised that the thing lasted as long as
it did.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Allison J Parent <allisonp(a)world.std.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Philips XT with 768K/heat
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 6:51 AM
>
>
> < Would excessive heat caused the bearings in the fan to freeze? The fan
> < working when the computer was turned on, but was totally frozen (VERY
ti
>
> The heat may have helped the fan fail but the do fail, the result is not
> good for some systems.
>
> Likely it was a crummy fan.
>
> Allison
>
The last VT103 I configured went to RCS/RI and it was tested with a
11/23B in it.
< Well, I always thought that RSX and RSTS/E were far
< better of with more memory. Also, with V5.0 of
< RT-11, the availability of 4 MBytes and a VM: was highly
< useful - not needed, but very nice. Of course, until
< recently, DEC memory boards were so expensive that
< more than 1/4 MByte was not worth while in any case as
< opposed to SIMMs with the PC. However, a half MByte
< board (M8067) is now so inexpensive that it is no longer
< a problem.
I have systems with 256k and more, with a hard disk having a ramdisk is
cute but not required. Doing a a non hacked system is far easier.
Also 4mb of DEC qbus ram (1mb cards) will severely load the BA11S boxes
I have never mind the Vt103 PS, I've done it. That box with 11/73, RQDX3,
DLV11j, LAV-11, RLV12, RXV211 and 4 memory cards overloaded the 340watt
PS! The disks were off seperate power. Heck the two RD52s and RX33
requires a 70W power supply.
< > A good package is a 11/23, 256kram, DLV11j, RQDX3, BDV11.
< > That gives you 4 serial ports, full memory without backplane mods,
< > RX50/RX33 floppy and MSCP hard disk (RDxx) and the BDV terminates
< > the bus plus supplies some of the desireable boots (no mscp).
<
< What hardware did you use to connect the RQDX3 to the RX50/RX33
< floppy drives? In general, I found the floppy to be far too slow
< and if I was jumping up the an RX33, for the same price (at current
< cost for a hard drive) I would prefer at least an RD51.
The BA123 disk distribution card M9058. I use both RX33 and RX50.
generally stuff for RX50 being more common I use that more though the
rx50 will read/write RX50. for a hard disk 30mb Quantum D540s (RD52)
as they are fast and reliable plus plenty of space. RD50, RD51, RD31,
RD32 are not worth the effort as they are slow or old.
< You can always power the disk drives with an auxiliary power
< supply from a PC. In that case, you can even have 2 hard
< drives and 2 floppies. Otherwise, with just the one hard
Danger Will Robinson. External MFM drives on seperate power means YOU
MUST POWER OFF THE DRIVE FIRST THEN THE SYSTEM. Failure to do so will
mean writing garbage to the disk at what ever track it's on. The fix is
easy reformat and reload the disk... Not something you want to do. It's
ok if they both power off at the same time. Many PC power supplies have
a switched outlet that can power the VT103.
< drive (under the tube), it is indeed on the edge of the PS
< if the VT103 supplies all the power. One other option I
Don't, the drives generate serious heat and that spot is poorly cooled.
< mentioned is that a SIGMA RQD11-B (MFM controller)
< uses about the same power as an RQDX3, but has BOOT
< ROMS. As a result, you can use just the dual 11/23 and
< no BDV11. Then there is enough internal power to run
That's handy but the disk is 30-37W and it's the back breaker. Going
with over 256k of ram invites the same problem. If you want a big system
get a decent box with adaquate cooling and power and use that.
< YES!! If run for a long time. But for short demos of
< an hour or less, the VT103 was highly effective. Most
< individuals who were familiar with the VT100 did not
< recognize the VT103. So when the demo was given,
< the first reaction was to ask about the computer - they
< saw only a VT100. We used to say that we had substituted
< clever squirrels inside the VT100 instead.
there were three differnt similar systems. PDT11/130 with TU58, VT103
and a MDS11-A. The latter two woere similar but slightly different
backplane.
< I even heard that someone had re-wired the backplane
< to allow a MicroVax II (ABCD slots for the first 2).
It would be easier to use a H9276 or other correct backplane in the
available space. Still the microvaxII and memory eats power in
a serious way.
< Now imagine if DEC had sprung the VT103 on the
< PC world as a PC at PC prices with a 150 watt power
Try more like a 300W ps to build want your talking about.
< supply (and a bigger fan) to easily allow hard drives under
< the tube. And later, had gone to the MicroVax II as
Why not the pro350/380, a well designed PDP-11 desktop system.
If you want a tiny vax get a VS2000 or one of the 3100 series.
< a standard option. The 10 year late DEC PCs would
< have been initially based on the PDP-11 and could
10 years late???? The Pro350 was in the market the same time as the PCxt
and the PDT11/150 predates the PC by a few years.
< then have used the VAX. The only thing lacking was
< a pricing model to compete with the XT and the AT
The PRO350 competed with a loaded PCxt with CGA color and a hard disk for
very similar $$$$. for similar $$$ inthe PCxt space was the Rainbow100.
< I understand that a total of 32 solder connections are
< required. I once saw the re-wired backplane. It
< seemed to have been done with wire-wrap wire
< since the solder points were so small.
The ones I did had longer WW pins on the backplane (BDV-11s) and I used
a standard bussing strip I have. Saves megga pain WW'ing a backplane.
Allison
>> < If anyone has a VT103 and needs some help with
>> < how to set it up as well to convert to a 22 bit backplane,
>> < likely both Megan Gentry and I are able to supply the
>> < necessary technical information.
>>
>> I've built a few and have data as well.
>>
>> Allison
>>
>Someone -- post the wire wrap info...
If I remember correctly, you buss pins BC1, BD1, BE1 and BF1...
With a Q/CD backplane, that would mean just four sets of
wires down the AB side (BC1-BC2-BC3, etc, BD1-BD2-BD3, etc, etc)
For a Q/Q backplane, that would mean
BC1-DC1-DC2-BC2-BC3-DC3, etc (maintaining the serpentine)
BD1-DD1-DD2-BD2-BD3-DD3, etc...
BE1...
BF1...
or you could do what I did... bus the AB and CD sides separately,
then wire-wrap one slot AB<->CD... Also, when I did it, I went down
to one of the Digital Stockrooms and picked up some specialized
'power strips' which were generally used for bussing DC on the
backplane, but could also be used to connect signal pins. It was
a copper strip which had alternating pin-sized holes and large
holes which wouldn't contact the pin... Perfect for connecting
corresponding pins of successive backplane slots...
Megan Gentry
Former RT-11 Developer
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry zk3.dec.com |
| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg world.std.com |
| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of ' ' |
| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ |
| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler |
| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg |
+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Well, Joan did want to start a club called Computer Preservationists of
Massachusetts (CPM for short). Maybe this might be the time to get it
goin'.
Tony (who runs off to find a home for the Data General arriving in
september)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: allisonp(a)world.std.com [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 1998 12:43 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: RE: Tony - SOL docs and MIT flea market
>
>
> < Dare we attempt to create a Boston area computer users
> group with our
> < raggedy group?
>
> Tony,
>
> That may be a good idea. Basic meetings would be the first step.
>
> Allison
>
OK, last night I tried copying the damaged RL02's that contain what is
supposed to be a RSX-11M v4.1 distribution. Unfortunatly two of the disks
seem to be damaged. I was able to recover 3/4 of one, and boot it in the
Supnik emulator, the other wouldn't even mount.
Now, I've got a question about these packs, and thier labels.
RSX-11M V4.1 |
RSXM35 V1 | I was able to copy 8,638,976 bytes of
RLUTIL V2 | 10,485,760. It will boot.
Copied 06/19/84 | Fault light now comes on when try to load
RSX-11M V4.1
EXCPRV V1
HLPDCL V2
Copied 06/19/84
RSX-11M V4.1
MCRSRC V1
Copied 06/19/84
RSX-11M V4.1 |
ACSQ22 V1 | Fault light comes on when I try to load it.
UPDATE V2 |
ACS MODS V3 |
Copied 06/19/84 rev 06/14/84 |
Unfortuntaly I suspect that the first pack is the most important, and based
on the SYSGEN documentation, I need the first three packs to do a SYSGEN.
What on earth is the third pack?
Also, is this the standard way for a RSX-11M distribution to be packaged?
On a semi positive note, the drives (2 RL02, and 2 RL01) came with 2 RL02
packs and a RL01 pack in them. The two RL02's contain a bootable system
that appears to have the Whitesmith C on it. I'm not sure about the RL01.
I'm still hoping the Whitesmith C distribution on RL01 is OK.
Once I've got archival copies made of all this I'll be more willing to play
with the packs. On a positive note, I can play with the images in the
emulator while copying them. I think I've still got over a dozen packs to
go through. I'll probably finish the RL02's tonite.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ |
