I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky. They've
got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around
in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with.
I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using
computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers
were too expensive. I had one design based on a //c, but this was around
1986 when the //c was still relatively new.
Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable
computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of),
disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers
to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for
just a few bucks.
An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea
market parts. It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program
"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
board. This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.
Man, I wish I was a kid again!
Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever onward.
September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 09/12/98]
OKay, for 2000 bonus points and the game, what was Micrografx Designer
when it was first
released under windows 1.X? (this is on topic as that was more than ten
years ago).
On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:09:48 -0400 "Albert J. McCann, Jr."
<amc358(a)interserv.com> writes:
>> On Friday, September 18, 1998 3:42 AM,
>> CLASSICCMP-owner(a)u.washington.edu
>> wrote:
>
>> >client was a stand-alone GEOS app. I know there were stand-alone
>Win
>> >apps, but I can't remember any names.
>
>> The only one I've ever seen was the game "Balance of Power".
>> It's Windows 1.x
>
>Micrografx Designer was another. It ran a stand alone 2.x Windows.
>
>Al McCann
>
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Slightly off-topic, yet topical...
I have, over the years taught many ham-radio license classes to
hundreds of people, a good percentage of them kids, generally from
age 10-11 and up. Apart from the required information relevant to
the actual FCC questions.. I stress science, technology, and D-I-Y
projects.. from the simplest 555-based LED flasher to working radio
sets and computer interfacing. I go to ham radio swap meets and buy
up all the old scopes and meters I can find, and then make them
available to kids for the price of promising to *use* the gear.
I like to use junk printers for robot supplies, because the
control and drive electronics are already there, as well as an easy
way of making them move via print commands sent to a parallel or
serial port of any computer. Sam and those of you who are robot
aficianados... I have seem some pretty fancy devices made up of the
steppers and servos from old unwanted printers... especially the
big old wide carriage dot-matrix units from 10 or more years ago,
whose motors were big and pwerful.
And there are a few young scientists left out there, in and among
the Beavis And Butthead clones thronging our schools. Sigh. Don't
get me started....
Cheers
John
At 04:51 PM 9/18/98 -0700, Sam wrote:
>
>I don't have a variac or anything and don't have the time or money to get
>one, but I need to bring up an IMSAI power supply that probably hasn't
>been powered in over a decade perhaps. What can I do to warm up the caps
>and transformer before bringing it fully online? Anything?
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
Connect a light bulb in series with the 120 volt line and power supply. Say
60 watts. The large caps you can estimate their capacity by seeing how long
they will light a small lamp after the supply is turned off. (12 Volts for
the +8Volt line, 24V for the +/-18 volt). Or you can time the discharge from
the bleeder resistors.
-Dave
What's keeping you?
I had the same wishes when I was a kid and somehow I still have them.
Unfortunately they have evolved too: as a kid I wished I had a robot that
could stack blocks (whoopee) or one that would run around without bumping in
the furnitures (prety advanced). Today I wish I had one that would vacuum
when it's needed, pick up the toys the kids leave all around the house, wash
my car and changes the cat litter.
What I'm getting at is that what we dreamed of as kids is not, by todays
standards, dream material anymore: you have those programable cars and all
sorts of talking toys (some of them animated) so the novelty and feeling of
innovation or creation is not the same. Dreaming of building a robot that
can pile blocks or solve the hanoi towers is not quite as fascinating as
beating the big bad dude on level four of the latest nintendo game.
But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and
gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I have
the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have
recorded in notebooks.
In 1994 I started working on one "project" thinking to bring it to market,
built a prototype thought of a better way to do it and wanted to make a
second proto but it involved much more money than what I had at the time and
it got filed with the rest. That is until I saw my idea in a catalog earlier
this week. So I fired Quake II and logged on a server and fragged for the
rest of the evening.
Boy I feel like rambling today.
Anyway there is not much that prevents from building the stuff you want, you
just need to know what you want and how you want to do it and stick to it.
Or did you loose that drive, that desire to build and bring innanimate
things to (artificial) life?
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 4:10 PM
Subject: Kids these days
>
>I was just thinking about how kids these days are so damn lucky. They've
>got all this cheap, extraodinarily useful computer hardware sitting around
>in massive quantities that they can do all sorts of killer things with.
>
>I remember when I was a kid I was dreaming about building robots and using
>computers to control them, but all the parts and expecially the computers
>were too expensive. I had one design based on a //c, but this was around
>1986 when the //c was still relatively new.
>
>Today, a kid could go to a thrift store and buy all manner of salvageable
>computer parts, including printers (to get the steppers and gears out of),
>disk drives (for the motors and gear shafts) and of course the computers
>to control their projects with easy to use languages built in, all for
>just a few bucks.
>
>An entire robot could be built for under $100 with thrift store and flea
>market parts. It could include a fairly powerful and easy to program
>"brain" in the form of a Commodore 64, a Tandy CoCo, even an Apple ][
>board. This stuff is everywhere and extremely simple to hack.
>
>Man, I wish I was a kid again!
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
>Sure. But that's what I was getting at. There's so much advanced
>tinkering that can be done very cheaply that we didn't have available to
>us.
I see the lego and K'nex stuff, follow the directions and there you are!
>I don't think that's true at all. I think the really creative kids would
>much rather build their own robot or program their own computer than sit
>on their ass all day and play games. The problem is the atmosphere is
>different. Everything is so nicely packaged that you don't need to get
>inside your machine and learn about it. I think this needs to change.
Exactly, with todays "creative sets" all the creativity is removed and
prepackaged: you can buld a dino or a tower of death then you play with it
for five minutes and get bored. Then you go back to your nintendo where you
still have to figure out the secret of the grotto on level twelve.
I'm not against nintendo and the such but they make entertainment easy and
readilly available: no looking for parts, no playing with sharp objects or
solvent based glue, they are the ideal "babysitters".
>> But I still go and build stuff from spare parts, still keep steppers and
>> gears in neatly ordered cabinets and still dream that one day, when I
have
>> the time, I'll build that robot or one of the numerous projects I have
>> recorded in notebooks.
>Me too. But my parts are all stashed in thrift stores, waiting for me to
>pick them up :)
I used to build stuff from old recycled materials, a few nails and lots of
paint, they were "analog robots" (kid power)
>What idea was that?
Do a web seach on "Slam Man"
>I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the fun the nerdy kids these
>days could be having if they discovered classic computers.
Got your point and I aggree but I guess the problem is more the shortage of
nerdy kids rather than their lack of imagination. As a classic collector you
must have gone to quite a few swapmeets or hamfest. I have not attended one
without seeing at least half a dozen kids with caddies or huge backpacks and
filling them up with anything marked free.
I think they are (the nerdy kids) having a bunch of fun with classics.
I can tell you that my kids (I hope they end up like me:) will have lots of
stuff available for them to tinker with.
>Actually, there is one kid I've been talking to in e-mail (although he's
>19 now so "kid" may not be appropriate anymore). He built some sort of
>digital logic contraption with relays out of an old elevator controller!
>It sounds wild. He said it can do actual useful work, such as image
>processing. I don't know the total details, but I'm trying to get him to
>exhibit it at the Vintage Computer Festival. He said its very large and
>would be a burden to move, but I'm trying to figure out a way to help him
>get it to the venue. That sort of project should inspire many people
>around his age to embark on similar projects of their own.
Please keep pressuring him.
I wish I could help local kids in projects and getting they interest on
classic computers but there are no programs that deal with that here and
it's a real pain to set one up if you don't have an educator's degree.
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
A couple of times, I've used old pie tins. I would make a mold out of
something (like packed sand), and hold the pie tin with a tong-thing, and
melt it into the mold using a blow torch. It's not the world's best thing,
but it works pretty good for making things like wheels.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Kids these days
> Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 8:16 PM
>
> On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Max Eskin wrote:
>
> > But what about the metal parts? Those aren't any cheaper...but you're
>
> Metal can be found very cheaply at the big home stores. Also, look
> around! Scrap yards, flea markets, etc. You can find many sources for
> the raw materials for the framework.
>
> Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
Did Microsoft actually make the hardware, like this thing and the
Softcard? I'm pretty sure that their modern hardware (mice, joysticks
talking barney) are licensed from someone else.
>
>> since im known at work as a packrat of old computer junk, someone
gave me
>> something called a microsoft <!> mach 20. turns out it's a full
length 8 bit
>> card that has a 286-8 and 2 meg and high density floppy controller on
it. it
>
>How funny. Back then they didn't have the clout to force computer
>manufacturers to make faster hardware to run their slow, bloated
>software, so they had to manufacture their own :)
>
>Sam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ever onward.
>
> September 26 & 27...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0
> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 09/12/98]
>
>
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I'm looking for a G104 and G227 cards for a PDP-8 (these are two of the
three cards needed for a 4K core stack) Alternatively a complete 4K or
8K core stack would be sufficient :-)
--Chuck McManis
