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101090 discussions

by Innfogra＠aol.com

The IBM 4224 is a 200 to 400 CPS dot matrix printer (usually 18 pin) for use on IBM networks. It sounds like you have the Twinax interface, about 1" in diameter, screw connector, with two pin holes. It is not usable on anything but a twinax network. I bellieve that IBM made 3 versions of varieing speeds in two interfaces. The second interface is a BNC Coax for the 3270 systems. While the networks are over 10 yrs old I doubt the printer is. Paxton

27 years, 11 months

Microsci HAVAC

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

This weekend I picked up this wacky little 6502 computer called the Microsci HAVAC. Has anyone else ever seen one of these, or better yet, does anyone have a boot disk for it? The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a spiral-grooved disc! The machine is about 16" deep, 10" wide, 8" tall, with the floppy drive in the center front (there is no door on the drive, just a slot and the funny lever -- no eject mechanism either, just pull the disc out manually). There is a small external keyboard about 10" by 13", no numeric pad, connects via a D-sub connector. On the back of the system unit, there are serial, "printer" (parallel?), 2nd floppy, and RCA video output connectors. I fired it up, and it displayed a HAVAC logo, ROM version 1.3, then the expected "no disk" error. I examined the system board, which is dated 1983, and has a 6502 CPU. There is no info anywhere on the net about this machine, that I can find. Any info appreciated, thanks Kai

27 years, 11 months

Microsci HAVAC

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a < center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a < spiral-grooved disc! Sounds like the shugart sa400 series. Allison

27 years, 11 months

dishwasher + mainboards

by allisonp＠world.std.com

< Unless I have my capacitors crossed, some dishwashing agents are < chlorine-based, and H20 <=> OH- + H+; mix a free Cl- ion in and you hav < hydrochloric acid. Which is why most are not CL- based. I thin their majik is a sodium ion. Allison

27 years, 11 months

Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by mbg＠world.std.com

>First, I didn't pick the example of Microsoft. Microsoft and IBM were >held up as examples of success through marketing when this thread >started, remember? Are you using a Microsoft product? I thought so. >Now, think real hard: was Microsoft lucky to get you to use their >software? No? Did you use their software because they were determined? >No? Did they convince you to use their software by playing "Start me >up!" real loud? No? No, those running MS software are doing so mostly because MS was the only game in town way back when... not hard to be 'best' when you're the only one... also not hard to be 'worst'... Personally, I avoid MS-anything like the plague... I have a linux system which has been up for more than a week straight... running W95, I'm lucking if I *don't* have to reboot several times a day either because the system has simply crashed, or wedged itself... Megan

27 years, 11 months

Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)

by kaikal＠MICROSOFT.com

OK, I snapped a quick shot of the HAVAC, it's not the greatest picture but it'll do :) http://www.geocities.com/~compcloset/MicrosciHavac.htm Kai -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail [mailto:dastar@ncal.verio.com] Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 6:42 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Microsci HAVAC On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: > This weekend I picked up this wacky little 6502 computer called the Microsci > HAVAC. Has anyone else ever seen one of these, or better yet, does anyone > have a boot disk for it? Sounds neat. Can you supply us with a GIF? > The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a > center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a > spiral-grooved disc! The Apple Disk ][ used the same mechanism. Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Ever onward. Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! [Last web site update: 09/21/98]

27 years, 11 months

Microsci HAVAC

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

>> The HAVAC has the weirdest floppy drive I've ever seen. It has a >> center-mounted clamp lever, and the head positioning is done via a >> spiral-grooved disc! >The Apple Disk ][ used the same mechanism. And they're both derivatives of the Shugart SA390. Tim.

27 years, 11 months

Corrections to trivia

by sinasohn＠ricochet.net

At 09:51 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote: >Intel came out the winners; they wanted it the most. But it would have >happened with or without them. You had the 6800, the 6502 and a whole >slew of others. The computers built around those processors were just as >relevant and would have happened anyway. I will admit up front that I don't know everything, and I am not an EE (dropped out of community college) but it seems to me that Intel hadn't won anything until ~81 when IBM came out with their PC. Until then, the Z80 and 6502 were as dominant (if not more so) than the 8080/8085? In fact, I'll go so far as to suggest that perhaps if IBM had gone with, say, the z8000, Intel would not be anywhere near as big as it is? It seems to me that what really got the "cheap computer revolution" going was the Z80 (CP/M, TRS-80, etc.) and the 6502 (Atari, Commodore, Apple II). Because no matter what the tech-heads are doing in their garages, nothing is a revolution until you can buy it at Sears. There is a similar situation with digital recording -- it's been around and available for eons, but mostly was only available to those with lots of $$$ (big studios/record companies) or tech-heads. Now, with the soundblaster/CD-R combo and some software (which, if it isn't available as shareware, I would be extremely surprised!) anyone can cut a full-digital (DDD) CD at home. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger(a)sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/

27 years, 11 months

Marketing (was Re: Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

I think that the amount of marketing necessary is related to the quality and value of the product itself. After all, if a computer is reeealy good, only a simple demonstration is necessary and it will be bought. If the product is nothing new, then $150m will be spent making it successfull. >> >> > Perhaps I'm cynical, ... >> > But I maintain that what determines the course of the industry is NOT the >> > quality of the technology, but the marketing. How else do you explain >> > the successes of IBM, MS, etc.? Surely not due to their superior >> > quality?!? >> >> No, not the "M" word! We just had a "marketing" thread and the term was >> tossed around like it was this magical thing that was responsible for >> everything that couldn't be explained by technical merit. > >It doesn't explain everything, but you'd be a fool to think marketing is >not responsible for at least 50% of a product's success (and that's being >conservative). > >> First of all, IBM can hardly be called successful. *In spite* of all the >> "marketing" they did, Taiwanese with no marketing at all were able to >> completely erode their PC market share. > >Let me get this straight...you're saying IBM can hardly be called >successful? This must be a typo. > I have seen several who think IBM is a failure. Once, I was at a computer store with another person, getting a computer repaired. THe other person asked the tech 'So, do you think Apple will survive?' The answer was quick: 'Sure, IBM survived, didn't it?' I asked her what she meant. She said, 'Well, their entire PS/2 line was killed off'. For one thing, the PS/2 shows that with great marketing and technology, a product can still fail. Secondly, it would appear that in most people's minds, everything before the PC is a haze. >where they did today. > >Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ever onward. > > Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0 > See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details! > [Last web site update: 09/21/98] > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

Columbus analogy (Was: Corrections to trivia

by maxeskin＠hotmail.com

> >> < So, is Columbus less important because the Vikings reached the Americas >> < before him? Or is it only important that most of the lasting effects >> < descend from Columbus? > >Columbus is a superb analogy for this thread! Not that the results >necessarily match, but that MANY related issues are also present. > >Columbus is the "canonical" discoverer, in spite of the Vikings, or even >the previously existing "colonists" who had been living there for a LONG >time ever since coming over the Bering straits? Well, that 'canonicity' of this is beginning to change. >Likewise, the Intel 4004 is the "canonical" first microprocessor, in >spite of other previous units that might or might not meet various >definitions. Unlike the columbus question, most people neither know nor care who made the first microprocessor or what serial number it was. Just about every m.p. is considered first by _someone_. >> . . . >> Better put, the vikings were here. Columbus told the world two things, >> it's not flat and there are great riches in the east. Somewhere in ther >> is the difference in those explorations goals. > >Since FEW have ever heard anything about this other than TOTAL BS in school, >it bears looking at some of the distortions. What is taught in school is >even less accurate than would be a history of computers by MS, IBM, >Intel, or Apple. In line with the use of it as an analogy, it is useful >to look at how distorted it has become, and realize that the same thing >happens quite quickly in fields such as ours. It happens in all fields. It will always happen. We're doing it now. There is nothing new under the sun. >but quite costly. > >Columbus did NOT tell the world that it wasn't flat. By the time of >Columbus, that was well known and accepted by all educated people. The >only ones who still thought that it was flat are now paying dollars per >minute for telephone psychic readings. Although there were some fears of >dangers, sailing off the edge was NOT taken seriously as a possibility by >anybody with any education. As a matter of fact, the Romans knew that the world was round. The knowledge was lost for about 8 centuries. >it was just too far going that way. Even the diameter and circumference >of the earth had been reasonably accurately computed (showing that the >shortest route to the Indies was still to the east). > >But Columbus had an inaccurate, wrong, crackpot theory that the earth was >about one third the size that had been calculated. Thus, he was convinced >that it WOULD be shorter going west. There are a lot of other issues >involved with his funding, etc. Never knew that. All progress is made by unreasonable men... >He set off, and lo and behold, encountered land somewhere near to where >the Indies would have been if he had been right about his 1/3 size theory. > >BTW, his very first recorded words about the existing inhabitants were: >"a good source for slaves". > >> An aside to this is while Intel is currently the apparent successful >> leader en masse we still don't know how it will play over time yet to >> come. There have been near reversals in the past and it would only take >> the next design leap to change the current course. Also the industry is >> only 30 years old in a century where we are still developing fundemental >> technologies. > >Perhaps I'm cynical, ... >But I maintain that what determines the course of the industry is NOT the >quality of the technology, but the marketing. How else do you explain >the successes of IBM, MS, etc.? Surely not due to their superior >quality?!? Well, IBM really had very little competition. DEC and Data General were quite successful too. But, since IBM was already around making typewriters and card punchers, it was already firmly established in the market. Did NCR ever venture into mainframes and minis, BTW? I have seen a nicely designed AT clone of theirs. > >And progressive improvement in hardware ... Only among people who submit to marketing and not quality. >Fred Cisin cisin(a)xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

27 years, 11 months

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