> From: Uncle Roger <sinasohn(a)ricochet.net>
> Subject: Re: Corrections to trivia
>
> At 09:51 PM 10/7/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Intel came out the winners; they wanted it the most. But it would have
> >happened with or without them. You had the 6800, the 6502 and a whole
> >slew of others. The computers built around those processors were just as
> >relevant and would have happened anyway.
>
> I will admit up front that I don't know everything, and I am not an EE
> (dropped out of community college) but it seems to me that Intel hadn't won
> anything until ~81 when IBM came out with their PC. Until then, the Z80
> and 6502 were as dominant (if not more so) than the 8080/8085?
I'd believe that: Z80 (CP/M) 6502 (Apple).
> In fact, I'll go so far as to suggest that perhaps if IBM had gone with,
> say, the z8000, Intel would not be anywhere near as big as it is?
>
> It seems to me that what really got the "cheap computer revolution" going
> was the Z80 (CP/M, TRS-80, etc.) and the 6502 (Atari, Commodore, Apple II).
> Because no matter what the tech-heads are doing in their garages, nothing
> is a revolution until you can buy it at Sears.
One of the driving forces behind the prevelance of non-Intel micros in the 70s
was that Intel processors were expensive (actually they still are!). I think
the 8080 was about $200 when MOS started selling 6502s for under $40. Of
course with that Intel lowered thier prices (to about $100 or so). Not to say
that the Z80, 6502 and others were bad CPUs, it's just that Intel was not
looking for the hobbiest/home market at all, and if it wern't for a big
business name (IBM) behind it it would still be looking for a 'killer box'
(like 'killer app' is to software) to be used in.
And IBM was known for the safe route, proven chips and designs, (no innovation
made cloning alot easier) and Intel had the name and a good track record among
business machine microprocessors.
--
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Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (300-2400bd) (209) 754-1363
Visit my Commodore 8-Bit web page at:
http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/commodore.html
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> Then again, even today, people seem to think that Europe and Asia are
> separate continents, even with vastly better maps and roads and rails
> crossing the border between them in many places.
They are, at least in the same way as Europe ans Africa.
Gruss
H.
BTW: is there _any_ African Computer known ? Maybe Kits or other
Homebrew from SA or even a 'real' homecomputer/Bussinessystem ?
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
I'd like to thank everybody who gave me info on the PC Jr. I got it
going late last week. It turns out it needs two power supplies for the
cpu. Apparently the people who owned it before me had it upgraded and the
upgrade requires it's own power. I saw the second power plug, but it
wasn't marked and I didn't think of it needing a second supply. Anyway, it
runs like a top now. All of the info was greatly appreciated.
Aaron
I was cleaning out the garage and came across my one real documentation
treasure, the doc binder for my Cipher F880 tape drive. The nifty thing is
that they put all of the schematics, engineering data (including a price
breakdown of every individual component), and mechanical diagrams (lots of
blowups) in there too.
Does anyone have a pressing need for this documentation? I won't give up
the original, but if someone expresses some real interest I could scan it
in and post it on a web server or something. It's a lot of material, but
it's interesting that they give so much detailed technical information in
there. I'll get around to it eventually anyway, just for archival
purposes...
Aaron
Hey, I've got a couple of E&L MMD-2's here. These are neat little
8080 educational SBC's. Hex keypad, "function" keypad, 7-segment
LED's, and three sets of 8 LED's for I/O ports 0, 1, 2. Includes
a cassette interface, bus expansion connector, serial interface,
and even an EPROM programmer for 2708/2716's. Most impressive!
But I didn't get any sort of manuals with them. I've figured
out most of the obvious stuff, but it would be nice to know the
format expected by the "load" function, the meaning of a few
unlabelled switches/jumpers, the meaning of "BRL HI" and "BRL LO",
and so on.
Anybody remember these things?
Thanks,
Bill.
PS. These things seem to be using the word "pop" to mean "burn",
as in "popping an EPROM". Was this a widespread usage? I've
heard the words "burn", "blow", and "program" used this way,
but "pop" is new to me.
I can't believe I am doing this much research on a computer I have already
sold, but it is interesting.
I found the Havac (that is it's name) in the "what's New?" column in Byte,
May, 1984.
It is an Apple work-alike and they also call it a transportable Computer. It
uses the 6502 processor and a 164K 5 1/4" floppy. 64K of ram and 8K of rom
and has high res color graphics. The manufacturer claims that over a 1000
Apple II programs will run on it. It is supposed to have printer, serial and
Game ports beside the external floppy connector. It's suggested list was $850.
I couldn't find an advertisement though, only the announcement.
the good news is that I found a couple of boot disks in my archives which I
will send to Kai.
Paxton
Actually, I don't think the apple was the standard multi-colored apple. I
think it was just red (If I remember correctly). It had the black face,
with the front flip-down latch/door, and it had a metal enclosure.
However, thinking back, I think it had a P/S in it (I no longer have it,
because it wouldn't work with anything). I'm not sure about the P/S, but I
do remember a round cord coming out of it.
--
-Jason
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#-1730318
----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Picture up (RE: Microsci HAVAC)
> Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 8:53 PM
>
> And you are sure this was a full-height, Apple manufactured, metal
> enclosure, black face plate with the colorful apple logo, Disk ][?
>
> Sellam Alternate e-mail:
dastar(a)siconic.com
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Ever onward.
>
> Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
> See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
> [Last web site update: 09/21/98]
>
< So, is Columbus less important because the Vikings reached the Americas
< before him? Or is it only important that most of the lasting effects
< descend from Columbus?
since I'm not a student of this general branch of history I can't comment
accuractly. It would seem to me the big differnece was the wave of
colonization that resulted.
Better put, the vikings were here. Columbus told the world two things,
it's not flat and there are great riches in the east. Somewhere in ther
is the difference in those explorations goals.
< Yes this is OT, but it mirrors one of the recent arguments on ClassicCmp
< and it could be argued either way because both arguments have validity.
< It comes down to what the individual thinks is 'important'.
True. The consideration is not the indiviual importance of any item but
it's impact on the collective picture. What is significant is the picture
was in some respects a collection of snapshots in time without continuity
or context. There were/are pieces missing from the puzzle and it would
be nice to fill them in. For example; Two of the oldest computing models
Harvard and Von Neuman date back to the first machines yet they influence
machines still. To make the picture complete we also need to know if
there are other models and what they are.
An aside to this is while Intel is currently the apparent successful
leader en masse we still don't know how it will play over time yet to
come. There have been near reversals in the past and it would only take
the next design leap to change the current course. Also the industry is
only 30 years old in a century where we are still developing fundemental
technologies.
My example for that is in the late 70s and early '80s everyone said that
16bit CPUs would wipe the 8bitters away. It sorta did, but not to the
projected extent. There would be a wave of 8bitters like the Kaypro,
ampro, SB180 to name a few in the 84-86 window and later. The 16 bit
machine really didn't reflect enough of an improvement as the next level
needed more. I'd say Apple knew (tripped on) this when they did the jump
>from 6502 to 68000 (internally 32bit). It would be 32 bit cpus that would
have the real impact. I expect that while Merced and Alpha are having an
impact we have yet to see the next significant impactor. While we are
going much faster, the way we compute is still logically similar to some
very old machines.
Allison
>#19 is the hardest to find.
How about the demo cart #2? Is that a har to find Item?
Francois
-------------------------------------------------------------
Visit the desperately in need of update
Sanctuary at: http://www.pclink.com/fauradon
jeez,. if anyone needs a 64, ive got 3 i want to get rid of. i'm apple ][
biased. =D
In a message dated 10/12/98 8:37:42 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
eric(a)brouhaha.com writes:
> Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> writes:
> > Well, I reassembled the 64, after cutting a manilla file folder to
replace
> > the paper between the metal shield on the back and the back of the board.
> ...
> > So okay, where DO I get a replacement keyboard for this thing? Also a
> case
> > in nicer condition would be nice. This one had a keyboard cover hinge
> > permanently cemented to the top.
>
> It would be much easier just to find an entire 64 in good condition. Keep
> the one you have now for spare parts.
