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101090 discussions

64bit data 128Bit address...Re: Building a Z-80 (64bit!!!)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> "Max Eskin" <maxeskin(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >> No application _requires_ any number of bits > 1. It's a question of >> performance. After all, a Z80 could have 512M RAM, just not >> contiguously (and would probably require a lot of hardware to access >> it). > > OK, then the Z80 system will require 19 bits of address. Sure, some of those > bits aren't coming directly out of the CPU, but they're coming from > somewhere. Actually the figure is 29 bits (it was 512M not 512K) but I agree with you 100% in principle. The way I look at it is this: Memory sizes are growing exponentially. So address bus widths can be expected to grow linearly. It has taken roughly 30 years between 64K words or bytes getting tight (early '70s, DEC up the Unibus from 16 bit addressing to 18 bit, but there's probably an example >from the late '60s) and now, when the 4 GWord or GByte address space of 32 bit addressing looks like it might get tight. (Note this is on small computers. On large computers, I'd estimate 10 years earlier in each case.) I therefore see address buses growing at 16 bits every 30 years. That's just over a bit every 2 years - slower than I expected but not much. Someone (I forget who) said that memory chips double in capacity every 18 months. This would give 16 bits in 24 years. I claim that the assertion that we'll see even 64-bit address spaces being used anything like up by 2003 is unfounded. According to that growth rate above, we will start hitting the limit of 48-bit addressing - 256 TWord - in the '20s, and the limit of 64-bit addressing, 16 exawords (or exabytes, possibly), in the '50s (or '40s at 1 bit per 18 months). Many of us will probably still be alive then (I shall be celebrating my 83rd birthday in March of 2050) - and I for one would like to see what sort of technology will be used to store 16 exabytes in a space smaller than a mountain! Philip.

27 years, 10 months

Analog computer manuals available

by dcoward＠pressstart.com

Someone a while back mention that Heath's manual replacement service no longer carries manuals for the EC-1 computer. On a lark I decided to check if they carry manuals for Heath's original analog computer, the ES-400, introduced in 1956. They do! Here's a picture to refresh your memory. http://www.sou.edu/biology/analog.html#EAC If you went to VCF 2 and joined the tour of the Computer History Center's visual storage, you would have been able to touch one. I got these model numbers out of the 1959 catalog. So here are the model numbers and prices of the manuals that I know that Heathkit has: $35 ES-400 Cabinet and Front Panel $25 ES-201 DC Amplifier (the op-amps on top of the cabinet) $25 ES-100 Initial Condition Power Supply $25 ES-2 Amplifier Power Supply $20 ES-50 Reference Power Supply $20 ES-151 Relay Power Supply I received the last three, a week ago, and was extremely surprised to find that they had sent me original manuals and not copies. They told me that it was not a mistake, they had extra manuals. These 3 1960 manuals look just like new. I'm still searching for the Operations Manual for this computer. ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA =========================================

27 years, 10 months

Acron (was:Re: Educational subsidies)

by franke＠sbs.de

>> Slashdot.org has a story explaining that the UK school system can't >> afford NT 5 and are considering another OS. In light of this, people >> were bringing up Apple's success in schools in contrast to the current >> situation. > I thought that Acorn dominated the UK school system? Perhaps I heard > wrong. And speaking of Acorn - If I'm right informed they have just descided to stop building RISC-PCs - end of one more independant line of computers. I belive the last with roots in the 80s, and the last beside Apple. Or is there any other non Win/Intel/IBM manufacturer (beside Apple) for the consumer/non niche market manufacturer left ? Gruss H. -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

eVay

by franke＠sbs.de

>> There's also an Altair case (supposed to be like new) starting at $100 on there > I have been curious about what the January 1975 issue of Popular Electronics > would bring on ebay, and now we can all find out. Current price is $40.61 > and it will close at 21:20 PDT. The URL for anyone interested is > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=37472905. I would > think that the Jan and Feb issues would be a bit more desireable, or for > that matter, all of the 1975, 1976, 1977, and maybe later volumes. Geeeee - I should sell any of my old issues on eVay - and some I even have tripple. Gruss H. (future millionaire) -- Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK

27 years, 10 months

Microvaxen bits etc.

by dburrows＠netpath.net

>Any Aussies out there know a good place to look for an ethernet adapter >that will fit a Microvax II? I have a nice machine, complete with VMS 5.4, >freshly rescued from a scrap metal yard, but it has no network adapter. For your ref. the delqa is a M7516 and add -YM for the "turbo" version. I just checked the DDA for any listed in Australia and none are listed. If you want I will go through the subscriber list and find some for you. >While I'm at it, AUI-10Base2(or t) transceivers are also getting rare, >(around here anyway) since I have a Vax 6220 in need as well, any good >sources? >S/H preferred. I'd like 2 or 3 if possible. I know it doesn't help much for shipping concerns but Datacom Warehouse carries them for about $25 either 10base2 or 10baset. www.warehouse.com >BTW, Huw, did you ever come across a source for a Vax 8530-Console cable? >(With that subject line, I just know you'll read this!) Which console cable are you looking for? I may have one. Dan Burrows 336-376-0468 dburrows(a)netpath.net

27 years, 10 months

bit addressing, alignment, bus errors, and VM (was Re: PDP-10 arch question)

by Philip.Belben＠pgen.com

> Incidentally, a quick quiz. Assuming all the virtual address space was > physical memory and you wanted to make a copy onto a disk drive > (32 Trillion Bytes - we didn't even have GigaBytes back in 1972, let alone > TeraBytes), how long would a sustained WRITE at 1 MByte/second take? > Hint: Answer should be in ONE digit of precision along with a time interval. > Eager beavers who want to give us 8 significant figures of precision > are disqualified. Just over 1 year Just under 400 days Quite a bit under 60 weeks Just under 13 months ... oops, that was 2 sig. figs. Rather more than 10 months then. If you want even sillier units, and at the risk of reviving an off-topic debate, rather more than 30 megaseconds. Could these disks do a megabyte per second in 1972? Sounds rather fast to me... Philip.

27 years, 10 months

11/70 front panel

by CLASSICCMP＠trailing-edge.com

> > What you probably have is the 11/70 Remote Diagnostic Console > > which allowed DEC to remotely diagnose the 11/70 (even when hung > > in a microcode loop or power fail routine) from Colorado. >Yes. It's the RDC console. I forgot the term. They both still have >their modems in the racks (but the yahoos from maintenance cut the lines >going in :-P ) Technically, the modem and the certain bits of the RDC could never be owned by the customer; these were always the property of Digital and the customer was forced to lease (well, the number was rolled into the field service contract.) When the field service contract ended, Digital was supposed to come remove these bits and reinstall the "real" front panel, but often neglected to do so. Tim.

27 years, 10 months

Microvaxen bits etc.

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

-----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland <jim(a)calico.litterbox.com> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu> Date: Monday, 26 October 1998 20:07 Subject: Re: Microvaxen bits etc. >When last I looked - and this was 1993 or so - you could still buy the ethernet >interfaces for uVAX IIs from used system dealers. Dealers in things Digital are scarce around here. That's part of the problem. > Whatever you do, don't get stuck with a deqna board. Nothing after VMS 5.3 supports them. Ah. Ok, thanks for that. >You want a delqa or delqa YM board. The YM is the high performance version of >the delqa. In 1993 they cost about 300 bucks(US) a whack Ok, I'll try for one of those. Thank you. >They're probably more or less worthless now. *sigh* :) A$400 a tonne. At selected "Hi-Tech" scrap yards. FWIW, I got the MVII, plus 2 VS4000's, (a 90 & a 60), a swag of RZ55's, couple TK50's, couple VT220 & 320 terms a DS3100, a VS3100/M38, 2 Data General 88000 based Aviions running DGUX 5.4 V3.10 (Sys 5 R4 + bits of BSD) and 2 Interpro 19" Colour RGBHV monitors for $160. Plus sundry keyboards etc. The MVII and a couple of the VS still have VMS 5.4 or 5.5 on them. (A small cluster is in the works :^) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 10 months

Microvaxen bits etc.

by geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au

Hi all, Any Aussies out there know a good place to look for an ethernet adapter that will fit a Microvax II? I have a nice machine, complete with VMS 5.4, freshly rescued from a scrap metal yard, but it has no network adapter. While I'm at it, AUI-10Base2(or t) transceivers are also getting rare, (around here anyway) since I have a Vax 6220 in need as well, any good sources? S/H preferred. I'd like 2 or 3 if possible. BTW, Huw, did you ever come across a source for a Vax 8530-Console cable? (With that subject line, I just know you'll read this!) You mentioned some time back that you might know where one was. The Pro380 console for it now has a new hard disk, with the console software successfully installed, it just needs a cable to make the poor old beast functional. (Backplane permitting) I see what you mean about the backplane too. Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College Port Pirie South Australia. My ICQ# is 1970476 Ph. 61-411-623-978 (Mobile) 61-8-8633-0619 (Home) 61-8-8633-8834 (Work-Direct) 61-8-8633-0104 (Fax)

27 years, 10 months

Emulation or the real thing?

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 12:14 PM 21-10-98 -0700, Sam Ismail wrote: >On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, John Foust wrote: > >> This reminds me of a claim I hear in Y2K discussions, but can hardly >> believe: that businesses are running the same *executables* since >> the 1950s/60s/70s, and that they don't have the source code to fix it. Well, here is an edited directory listing from our main VMS cluster: MPCASM.DOC;1 24-NOV-1980 16:33:05.00 MPCASM.EXE;1 24-NOV-1980 16:33:06.00 TEKLIB.OLB;1 24-NOV-1980 16:33:14.66 Now the hardware is considerably newer than the files, but I can guarantee that I don't have the sources for these. (MPCASM is an assembler for a 6800 and TEKLIB is a library for Tektronix 4010 terminals...). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "If God had wanted soccer played in the Melbourne Australia 3083 | air, the sky would be painted green"

27 years, 10 months

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