>>> I definitely notice the 50Hz vs 60Hz difference on my computer.
>> It is visible when using a still picture like a computer
>> output.
> Well, I can see the 50Hz flicker when running demos, too. It's not just
> because the picture is stable.
> Of course, I also have 60Hz lights. When running European software I'll
> often shut off the lights and I notice the flicker less.
Maybe this adds some interferences - but are you shure you
had 50 Hz display, or a 50 to 60Hz full screen conversation ?
Often they just add pictures wich results in a strange effect
giving a kind of cartoon feeling.
>> 60 Hz gives a more stable view, but on the other
>> hand, the poor NTSC coulour signal just damages the view
>> again, so again the result is bas - taking this and the
>> lower resolution (less horizontal and vertical lines in NTSC)
>> I'll prefer the flicker.
> Less horizontal lines? Televisions are analog horizontally, and all of
> the computers I know of generate the same number of pixels horizontally
> whether they're in Europe or North America.
Shure, they are analog, but still a real world application.
And every signal needs time to rise and fall. And since
analog isn't digital (in fact nothing is digital in real
world), the signal has to go from black to white thru
all shades inbetween (and all shades will be transmitted :).
Only a digital signal could go from blac to white without
any delay - but as I said before the world isn't digital
even digital signals are analog and need their time between
their levels.
Within the 5MHz (b&w) BAS video signal (transmitted withing
the 7 or 8 MHz chanal) the shortest black to white and back
transition (one line) is withing 0.2 us witch gives some
310 theoretical lines within one screen line (horizontal).
But such a signal would be displayed as some kind of gray.
The real resolution within a b&w signal is often less than
250 lines on a real screen.
>> THe best was still using PAL with
>> 60 Hz - some homecomputers of the 80s could be programmed
>> for that - less flicker and high resolution and biliant
>> (or at least as briliant as a narow band colour signal
>> can be) colours.
> Certain European Amiga models would be able to generate 60Hz PAL. I don't
> know what else could, but I've never come across a European computer.
Same for Atari STs and AFAIR C64s, almost all MSXes...
>>> I might
>>> not notice it with a TV signal, though - I've never watched PAL
>>> television. (But I've watched 50Hz 'EuroDemos' on the TV.)
>> EuroDemos ? Whats that ?
> Demonstrations of music, special effects, artwork, etc, done on the
> computer. Part of C64 and Amiga culture. Called either 'demos', or
> 'Eurodemos' because they're usually written by European demogroups and
Oh, nust a missunderstanding - I thought about some
kind of demo show on TV.
> they often completely fail to run on 60Hz screens. (I think they take
> pride in making their programs not work on North American computers.)
Maybe the same ignorance as US programmers have for any spot
outside their littele hometown ? Serious, these demos are
so tight packed with the FBAS / TV timeing that changing any
parameter just kills funktion, especialy on the C64. If you
want to manipulate scrren colours within a screen line (hor.)
the CPU cycles are just attached to the colours, content and
FBAS timing. And a screen line (hor.) in PAL is about 62.5 us
while a NTSC line is 57us (AFAIR). So, PAL allowes up to 3
additional 6502 operation to be performed within a line.
These demos are sometimes real tight ...
> There are still demoparties in Europe with prizes for Amiga and C64
> entries.
Shure - they are BIG events - sometimes several hundred
participants.
>> I used an SONY TV for the ATARI ST, 10 years ago.
> My brother used a Sony TV for his C64. Which kind of sucked because it
> only had composite input.
I just mentioned SONY as an example for Japaneese TV where
SCART and RGB and 50/60 Hz switch are common features since
more than 10 years.
Servus
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
Hi Group,
I was doing some work on my collection this weekend.
In particular I was reviewing my MICRO magazines (that
deal with the KIM, PET, and various 6502 systems).
I noticed that the latest copy I have is issue #18. I was
wondering if anyone knew if there were issues beyond
this or if the name of the magazine changed into something
else and I'm just not making the connection?
By the way, in the range of issues #1-18, I am missing
issues #15 & #16. I do however have duplicates of some
of the other issues. If anyone has duplicates of those two
issues, in good shape, and you're interested in trading,
one-for-one, let me know which issues you need and I'll
see if that's one of the ones that I have duplicates of.
I should have noted which ones I have copies of but I forgot
and they're not here with me.
Jon
Hello everyone!
I have a Mac Portable. I also have an Apple //c.
I'm wondering if there's a version of AppleWorks, AppleSoft BASIC, and Apple
LOGO that will run on the MAC. I'm also looking for either the 3.5" floppy
for the //c, or a 5.25" floppy for the Mac (the 3.5 for the //c would be
better). The drives don't necessarily have to Apple brand, as long as
they'll work.
As always,
ThAnX in advance,
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)ncal.verio.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: MAC/ Apple //c compatibility questions
>
>As far as I know there was never a 5.25" drive produced for the Mac. I
>wouldn't be surprised if I am wrong, but I doubt it.
>
Would an external 5.25" for the //c work on the Mac? The plugs are the same
(although that usually doesn't mean much). Would it work under the
emulator?
--
-Jason Willgruber
(roblwill(a)usaor.net)
ICQ#: 1730318
<http://members.tripod.com/general_1>
Hello,
I have compiled an extensive mailing list of enthusiasts and collectors of the
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On 13 Nov 1998 Eric Smith wrote:
>That's my point. The Syquest SyJet and Sparq drives, and the Iomgea
>Jaz drive, appear to use what you have listed as configuration 2.
>They have to, in order to get .75 to 1.0G density per platter.
>Configuration 1 can't get the head close enough to the media. And even
>if they did use configuration 1 and get the head close enough to the
>media, then it would be just as susceptible to foreign particles as
>configuration 2.
>
>That's precisely why they are so f*&#ing unreliable.
>
>Out of over 30 SyJet and Sparq drives, I don't think we've had a single
>one last more than 100 cartridge insert/eject cycles.
I'm surprised more people don't use MO (magneto-optical) drives. 640MB on a
3.5" MO disk, no head contact with disk surface (data read using laser), not
susceptible to magnetic fields, media life at least 30 years, cheap media
compared to Jaz, Zip etc. (12 pounds for a 640MB disk)
If the disk surface ever gets really dusty (and this will take a very long
time) you can just use a cleaning kit; basically this involves wiping the disk
surface with a cloth moistened with fluid, like you would to clean a CD-ROM
disc.
-- Mark
>I'm wondering if there's a version of AppleWorks, AppleSoft BASIC, and Apple
>LOGO that will run on the MAC.
Take a look at <www.emulation.net>. The one Apple II emulator you'll
find there (I forget its name) is made specifically for emulating
Appleworks (not sure if it will run on a Portable, though). As for BASIC
and LOGO, I'm don't think you'll find Apple versions, but take a look at
chipmunk-BASIC. I've seen a few LOGO hypercard stacks that didn't
impress me much, not sure if there's anything better.
Alternatively, you could use the "][ in a Mac" emulator. That would give
you AppleSoft BASIC, as well as Appleworks and LOGO, if you can put up
with the small screen. If you're interested, I'll send you a copy.
>I'm also looking for either the 3.5" floppy
>for the //c, or a 5.25" floppy for the Mac (the 3.5 for the //c would be
>better). The drives don't necessarily have to Apple brand, as long as
>they'll work.
Tom Owad
The System/34 is on wheels. You do need to lock the hard drive heads
if there's a hard drive. To do this: slide a coin or screwdriver
into the little slots on the sides of the machine to open the panels.
Once you've found the hard drive, there is one variety I can help
you with. In this one, there is a metal box to the right of the
motor, spindle, etc. On one side of this box is a single screw
which you have to remove. This will allow you to swing the metal box
out of the way on its hinges. Once done, you will find a white
plastic wheel on the bottom edge of the drive. TUrn it all the way
in the direction that it will turn. THere should be directions on the
metal box as well.
> plus some manuals and tapes. Everything is supposed to be in working
> order- they upgraded and pulled the plug.
>
> 1. How much do these things weigh? The computer person there
estimated
> 2000 lb. for the 34, 1000 lb. for the 36, 700 lb. on the printers and
500
> lb. on the tape drives. Does that sound about right?
>
>The weights are about right. A good loading dock or a good forklift is
>necessary.
>
> 2. How possible is partial dismantling for transport? I didn't get
to
> tear into them to look. Loading access is fairly good in the building
> they are in, but unloading the 34 could be tricky. It would help if I
> could lighten them up.
>
>Genarally they are on wheels and are not taken apart to be moved. I
don't know
>the configuation of the 34. It is possible it could be composed of
several
>parts, but looking at the model number I think it is one piece.. I have
moved
>several of these systems and usually I rent a truck with a railgate
type of
>liftgate on it. These have a larger deck and ride flatter. Hopefully
the truck
>matches the dock. Use a flat dock plate. If there is a mismatch put a
piece of
>sheet steel over the dock plate to reate a smooth surface to roll on.
IBM made
>a little wire U shaped clip (bent at the bottom of the U) that is used
to keep
>the wheels from rolling. This can hold the unit still untill you can
tie it
>down. Remember there is lots of mass involved. It is best to tie off
each
>machine.
>
> 3. What needs to be done before moving? Head locking, moving or
removing
> anything, stuff like that.
>
>At each corner near the wheels are leveling screws. these need to be
raised
>with a crescent wrench, all the way up.
>
> Other less important stuff that I'm curious about:
>
> 4. What kind of interface does it have to the terminals?
>
> 5. What kind of power does it need? I'd assume 3 phase 220v.
>
>It could be single phase.
>
> 6. How much computing power is this? Compared to a VAX 11/750, say.
>
> 7. How will these things tolerate living in an unheated building over
> winter? I live in IL.
>
>They should survive if you don't try to power them up. They want to be
warm to
>run.
>
> Any other hints and tips would be greatly appreciated. I'd really
like to
> be able to move these machines without damage (to the machines or me).
>
> I went there today mainly as a recon mission, but they convinced me to
> take home a Wang word processing system. The server is a model
OIS-60X,
> and it has 4 terminals hooked up by RS336 (?) over coax (BNC
connectors),
> plus a laser printer. I think the printer weighs more than the
server.
> I got a bunch of cartridges for it, and some Canon copier cartridges
too,
> "because they're almost the same". I think not.
> >>
>If the Laser printer is an LDP-8 then the Canon Carts should work. The
engine
>is a Canon SX I think.
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Monday, 16 November 1998 7:52
Subject: Help verify contents of MVII
>Briefly, I have a Microvax II that I got in that big haul of DEC gear this
>past July.
Sorry, must have been before I was in the list, what did you get? :^)
>FWIW: the hard disk is an RD53, there's no FD.
As I understand it, the FDD/TK50 was an either/or thing.
>I also got a raggy looking VT220 I still need to check out which I
>understand is needed for MVII's.
Not necessarily a 220. A VT100 would do, or even a pc running a terminal
emulation.
The trick is more to do with the pinout of the console port on the MVII
which is not what
you probably expect.
>The Ethernet modules were already missing from the two big VAXen and maybe
>from one of the PDPs that I got in that haul so there could have been
>Ethernet cards in a couple of these MVII slots which could account for part
>of the empties.
I could have a spare VAXBI Ethernet adaptor if you get stuck. What model
Vaxen?
>Would like to wire Ethernet into this house to interconnect
>machines, but first things first (such as *finishing* work on the house and
>getting machines to just _run_!)
Good starting point.
>Other than the obvious, such as checking PSU, etc. before lighting it up,
>are there any other words of wisdom or MVII info sources anyone could
>direct me to? I have basically no documentation except for most of a set of
>VMS 5.4 manuals -
Microvax FAQ is the best spot, there is a section there on the MVII and it's
console connections.
URl is http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq_text.html
There is also a lot of useful stuff in the VMS FAQ, I don't have the url
handy here, I'll
post it from work later today. I strongly recommend reading both docs,
there is some
duplication, but I found things in the VMS faq (like the pinout of the MVII
console port) that
are not in the MVII FAQ.
>and I of course do not yet know what OS this machine runs
>(but likely VMS of some version I suspect.)
Almost certainly. 5.4 or 5.5 most likely. The docs are not a lot different
for the versions.
I have a vms 5.5 manual set that I use for a vms 6 system.
>
>There's a few online URLs I have scrounged that have some MVII info bits
>but as I said, none talk specifically about this bus thing. (So maybe it's
>a non-issue but I don't know . . .)
There is some archived email/ng correspondence in the MVII FAQ that
discusses such
things, ie moving cards around, removing cards etc.
That may be of help.
Cheers
Geoff
Computer Room Internet Cafe
Port Pirie
South Australia.
netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
Not all (actually relatively few) PDP-11s had 8008s in them, and
then only on one specific board that *I* know of... it was an
option that was generally ordered with the initial system.
If this is going to turn into another one of those "tear down a
System to get one part and chuck the rest" deals.. (reminds me of
ivory poachers...) I am thinking of programming a PAL or something
to emulate the functions of the uP chip... another project, just
what I need.
Or is anyone else out there thinking the same thing? Might 'save'
a system if All Else Fails (as it often does).
4004 trivia: I was told by the Fujitsu Elevator tech where I work
that the five machines in our building are all controlled by a
4004-based system.. that apparently Fuji is still supplying in one
form or another.
Disclaimer:
I am *NOT* responsible if they all stop working mysteriously.. I
do *NOT* have the keys to the equipment room, I have *NOT* been up
there in ages... ;}
Cheers
John
