Why do you think that is? It shouldn't be too difficult to duplicate a
VT100; after all, the specs are available. I do agree with you, though.
Every communications program I've used always messes up on _something_.
While one might work with BBS A but give weird characters with B, the other
one is the other way around, even if they both use VT100, or ANSI, or
whatever the case might be. I think it may partially be the fault of the BBS
program, but when connecting to a DEC system, this is of course not an
issue.
>Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have
>yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct
>VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have
>very similar key layouts. They are universally broken.
>Allison
>
>Why do you think that is? It shouldn't be too difficult to duplicate a
>VT100; after all, the specs are available.
Yeah - that's what all the emulator writers think, too :-).
> I do agree with you, though.
>Every communications program I've used always messes up on _something_.
>While one might work with BBS A but give weird characters with B, the other
>one is the other way around, even if they both use VT100, or ANSI, or
>whatever the case might be.
This is sort-of a "creeping freaturitis". Some emulator supports
some non-standard command/control string, the BBS writers use it
and include this string in their display. Another emulator - or
the real terminal - makes garbage on the screen when presented
with this code. Call up the folks who wrote the BBS, it'll turn
out they never saw the real terminal.
> I think it may partially be the fault of the BBS
>program, but when connecting to a DEC system, this is of course not an
>issue.
And other times the emulator doesn't do everything that it's supposed
to!
Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
I have a mfm 3.5" drive I just got and would like data on it.
it is a WD10i, also marked Fuji Electric FK301 (also 508100625). Looks
to be '84-85 vintage from date codes.
Size, geometry info is desired.
Allison
I have not tried using 2 RD5x drives in a BA23 because the power supply
can't handle it according to the manuals.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Fine <jhfine(a)idirect.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?
>Daniel T. Burrows wrote:
> The RD53's were Micropolis 1325's. If you can find a 1325 you need to
> install a jumper in R7 location on the main board to make it look like an
> RD53. Also install jumper blocks on W1, W2, and DS3.
> Dan
Jerome Fine replies:
Almost correct, as far as I know, but if you do so, you will likely
lose DUA0: if it is not WRITE PROTECTED when you boot.
IF YOU ARE USING TWO HARD DRIVES IN A BA23
BOX, YOU MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SET THE SECOND
DRIVE AS DS4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The last time (and only) I set both drives on DS3, I lost the format
on both and could not recover DU0: - it was on a PDP-11, but
I doubt that the DS3 / DS4 setting requirements are different on
a uVAX II.
Note that the settings on a BA123 with the special I/O distribution
board in slot 13 are very different in that 4 hard drives are allowed
of you don't have any floppies AND all hard drives are set for DS3!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Computer Room Internet Cafe <netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 5:36 AM
> Subject: 85mb Micropolis in a Microvax II?
>
> >Hi all,
> >
> >Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM
286.
> >Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506.
> >Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently
has
> >a single RD53, as a second drive?
> >If so, is there deep magic involved in the install?
> >I seem to recall seeing something about needing special
> >software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a
> >non DEC drive.
> >The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Geoff Roberts
> >Computer Room Internet Cafe
> >Port Pirie
> >South Australia.
> >netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au
> >
On a PDP-11, there are DEC formatting programs, but I don't know
what you use on a VAX/VMS? I suggest that you take great care.
I also suggest that you either backup DUA0:
Also, the format for an RD53 on an RQDX2 is incompatible with the
format on an RQDX3.
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict
(Almost no one wants Y2K Patches for any version of RT-11)
>I have a VT 102. The only info I can find thru searches is that it is very
>similar to the VT 100 and has some sort of paging capability like a
>Tektroniks 4014 terminal.
Not exactly - the VT102 features were usually called "local editing".
The 102 also came, by default, with 132-column capability and a few
other bells and whistles that were options on the VT100.
I'm not sure what you mean by "paging capability"...
The VT132 added block-mode capability, ala IBM mainframe terminals.
> Also, there were a lot of pointers to terminal
>emulators that have VT 102 compatibility. No help from them either.
You didn't find Rick Shuford's archive of terminal info, then :-).
The DEC-Specific page starts at
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/dec.html
and the more generic terminal-cell page starts at
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal_index.html
Rick's pages are a truly wonderful model of what web pages should be.
Many good indices to useful information, remarkably little self-
congratulatory graphics!
>Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I
>have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)?
VMS will work quite happily with the VT102. What exactly do you want
to make it do?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
> <begin quote>
> The xterm program is a terminal emulator for the X Window System. It
> The VT102 and Tektronix 4014 terminals each have their own window so that
> you can edit text in one
> and look at graphics in the other at the same time.
> <end quote>
This means that xterm has two distinct windows: VT102 and Tek 4014.
It'll switch between them when receiving the right control codes.
>>You didn't find Rick Shuford's archive of terminal info, then :-).
>No, dang it! Here we go again, like you were questioning a few days ago
>Tim: why don't some things get indexed?
Life isn't fair. Many search engines tend to be heavily oriented
towards flashy, glitzy sites that overload on META tags, have little
in the way of actual information, but lots of useless pictures.
(Sorry if I just insulted 97% of the web sites in existence, but
it's true.) Some search sites pride themselves at removing web
pages from their index if the information is more than a few weeks
old. (Hotbot, in particular, though others are now adopting this
strategy in response to hotbot's heavy TV advertising.)
>>>Could anybody point me to info on this terminal or at least describe what I
>>>have got and if it would be useable with VMS (the paging feature)?
>>VMS will work quite happily with the VT102. What exactly do you want
>>to make it do?
>Obviously, I would need some sort of way to use the windowing feature of
>the 102.
I think that you're talking about the xterm auto-switching between
Tek 4014 window and VT102 window when receiving the appropriate
control codes. As your VT102 doesn't do Tek 4014, this isn't
applicable.
(For those who haven't been using X-windows for the past decade,
"xterm" is a commonly used terminal emulator for X-windows.)
One gripe about terminal emulators: *never ever* assume that
because an emulator supports an escape code, feature, or function
key, that the item being emulated supports it. An example from
an article of mine that Rick thought was relevant enough to
include in his archive
(http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal/emulation_how_to_news.txt):
The worst offender I've found is a commercial editor that requires
VT100 users to hit F5 through F10 to access certain abilities
that are rather necessary - such as exiting the editor. Despite
repeated phone calls to the company, I've yet to convince them that
a VT100 does NOT have F5 through F10 function keys. They claim that
because some popular Windows-based emulators implement these function
keys in VT100 mode, a real VT100 must as well. Arrggghhh!!!! I'm
tempted to deliver a half-dozen true VT100's to their corporate
offices via catapult.
> From the Neosoft site mentioned in the last msg to Zane, xterm
>would have to be used but it won't work on VMS as it doesn't run the X
>windowing system.
Gees, that's news to me. I've been running X-windows, and all the
big X-windows applications, under VMS for most of a decade now.
> However, am I correct in assuming
>DECwindows under VMS is the ticket here?
Yep. DECWindows = X-windows+Motif. Don't get too wrapped up in names :-)
When you do manage to get it up and going, head straight for one of
the big OpenVMS freeware sites (for example,
http://www.decus.org/libcatalog/description_html/vs0185.html
) and have some fun!
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
In that heap of goodies I'm keeping from that DEC Haul back in the summer I
found a DEC 5.25" floppy disk package containing five floppies of the
following:
BL-T540B-M1 CZUFDB1 USER TESTS
BL-T541B-M1 CZXD1B1 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 1
BL-T542B-MC CZXD2B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 2
BL-T565B-MC CZXD3B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 3
BL-T583B-MC CZXD4B0 FIELD SERVICE TESTS 4
All evidently are diagnostic tests for some sort of DEC machine which uses
a 5.25" floppy drive. Could anyone identify which machine given the above
info?
Thanks, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/
< Just pulled a Micropolis 85Mb MFM Hdd out of a genuine, but dead, IBM 28
< Model is 1335, and is also marked as being an ST506.
It's mfm so it can be connected if the jumpers are set right. No I don't
have that info for 1335, only 1325s.
< Am I correct in assuming it would work in a Microvax II that presently h
< a single RD53, as a second drive?
likely.
< If so, is there deep magic involved in the install?
two things, it will have to be LLformatted (you need standalone utility)
and the drives jumpers ahve to be set right.
< I seem to recall seeing something about needing special
< software that is not supplied with the Microvax to put in a
< non DEC drive. The Microvax is currently running VMS 5.4
Yes a standalone formatter.
Allison
< VT100 users to hit F5 through F10 to access certain abilities
< that are rather necessary - such as exiting the editor. Despite
< repeated phone calls to the company, I've yet to convince them that
< a VT100 does NOT have F5 through F10 function keys. They claim that
< because some popular Windows-based emulators implement these function
< keys in VT100 mode, a real VT100 must as well. Arrggghhh!!!! I'm
My answer to them is, if I jump off a bridge will you too? They may have
confused Vt100 with Vt220(and later) as they do have the function keys.
What PCs do/did should never count as valid.
< tempted to deliver a half-dozen true VT100's to their corporate
< offices via catapult.
Tim,
Big time right on. Being an exDEC terminals and printers widget I have
yet to find a terminal emulation on the PC that does a correct
VT100(series) or remotely passable Vt2xx/3xx even the the latter have
very similar key layouts. They are universally broken.
My local solution is the use of RealTerminal (TM) IE: a in the flesh
vt100/102, H19, Vt320, VT340 or vt1200. I know they are honest.
Allison
> Jerome Fine
> RT-11/TSX-PLUS User/Addict
> (Almost no one wants Y2K Patches for any version of RT-11)
I don't know about "patches", but Compaq and Mentec already have
orders for several hundred copies of RT-11 5.7, the Y2K compliant
version, which began shipping late last week.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
