Before we mount a full-scale Salem Witch hunt... allow me to say
that I have had many pleasant dealings with my friends on this list,
and other lists... the percentage of deals gone sour has been very
low. Andrew Carnegie said: "It is better to be occasionally
cheated, than forever suspicious.."
And I can confess that there a few Nice People here on Classicmp
to whom I have promised to send various items; the promise still
exists but I have flaked out so far. Sorry Eric, Dave, Megan, Ian,
.... :] (In my defense: absolutely *no money* is involved in these
deals, most I am even shipping myself. And packing. And lugging..)
If I have sent you money, and you cannot complete your end of it
for some reason... send me the money back. Or tell me *when* you
can complete the deal. Or offer me something else I might want. Or
at least **tell** me that the item(s) and my money are no longer
available, and why that is so. Shit happens....at least give me the
true info and let me see what I can do.
But disappearing with someone else's funds is.. theft. That's all.
Confess your sins! Con-feesss you sins!! con-fesss your siiiins!!!
Or we shall torture you wiiiithhhh... The COMFY CHAIR!!!!!
Cheers
John
Larry:
Buck:
<
<Given your start in computing in the mid-fifties, you must now be
<in your mid-sixties. I was one who started in the early 70's (as
<early as my 12-th year) and am now 41. The machine was
<an IBM 370/155 with 1MB of main memory, and the language was
<APL (APL*PLUS from Scientific Time Sharing).
I have at 46 te dubious honor of bridging both. I started however with
small computers in the late 60s and the PDP-8 the whole of wich was
three 6' racks was my idea of an approachable system. I was also
priesthood incarnate in that for the small computer revolution I was there
and part of it. To me a "big" cpu weighed about 80-110 pounds and only
partially filled one of those racks. The 8008 (1972-3) and later the 8080
were part of my life as I was there on the edge pushing it.
I never put a "good old" or "bad old" sticker as that was where things
were and even then it was clear the target was a fast moving one.
Allison
Hi all,
thank you for the extensive replies. What I meant was
"available for a reasonable price", which is not more than a few
hundred $ in my mind, so the PUPS offering really appeals
to me most.
Thanks and regards
John G. Zabolitzky
Yesterday's snow kept all but about 8 tailgaters from coming to the York
Springfest, resulting in a rather dissapointing show. I managed to get
an Apple IIe for $2, an IBM Model 25 for $5, and a bunch of manuals
(including some for the IBM System/36), but that was about it.
I got two copies of "IBM Maintenance Library - 3278 Display Station
Models 1,2,3,and 4 Maintenance Information". Anybody want the second one
($5 shipped), or wish to trade for it (intersted in books on interfacing
the Apple II)?
I also purchased a book called "Master Transistor/IC Substitution
Handbook. A GIANT one-stop, easy-to-use manual that gives you commonly
available replacements for over 80,000 U.S. and foreign tranistors and
ICs...plus basing diagrams." (c)1977, 517 pages. Looks like it could be
a useful reference, if the the replacement part numbers are still up to
date. If somebody _really_ has a use for this book, let me know.
Tom Owad
Does anyone know what this computer goes for? When i start it up, the
screen is full of strange characters. I hit the orange button and then
the drive lights go on and the bottom drive light stays on. The prompt
is: Diskette?
I don't have any disks for it. I just picked it up yesterday. What's
wrong with it? How can i fix it? does anyone have any disks for it?
Also, there is a guy at a flea market where i live who has a room full
of old computer junk. That's where i picked up this computer. I've
seen an Apple II plus with disk drive, a couple of TI99 4/As, and many
old modems. There is also a very old Compaq portable, and about 5
Commadores. Who knows what else is in there. Is anyone interested in
any of these? Let me know.
-----Original Message-----
From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org>
>of toxic wastes were *legally* disposed of with all the associated
>government regulations that the government is now coming back and looking
>for money to clean up sites they had approved as safe. A favorite saying of
>mine is "There would be no such thing as the environmental movement were it
>not for scientific illiteracy." Yes, it is an overstatement, but there is
That resonates well with one of my favorites: If you add a drop of wine to
a barrell of shit, you have a barrell of shit. If you add a drop of shit to
a barrell of wine, you have a barrell of shit.
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
>Since I don't have a class two license, I can't get a truck with a
>lift gate,
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Several times I've rented a
lift-gate truck, usually from Budget, to move a machine. Now this
was always on the West Coast, and it's possible that on the other
coast that the laws are different, or that the truck companies
just don't want to risk renting to folks who probably don't know
how to run a lift. You might also try some of the non-UHaul-non-Budget-
non-Ryder companies in your neighborhood (the kind that rent tractors
and bulldozers) and see if they'll rent you a liftgate.
> so I was planning on unloaded all the boxes from the racks
>(CPU, disks, anything else) and placing them on shipping pads, the
>disks with foam pads underneath. I was planning on tipping the racks
>over onto dollies to be wheeled up the ramp into the truck where they
>would travel on their sides, on mats.
Sounds like a fine plan. Note that many medium-sized station wagons
will hold a single H960, too. Get yourself nice dollies with pneumatic
wheels if at all possible.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Larry:
Given your start in computing in the mid-fifties, you must now be
in your mid-sixties. I was one who started in the early 70's (as
early as my 12-th year) and am now 41. The machine was
an IBM 370/155 with 1MB of main memory, and the language was
APL (APL*PLUS from Scientific Time Sharing).
Well, it is true that the machines of the 50's were the so called
Unit Record devices and the low quality mainframes of the day,
like the 7090, the 1620 (if I get the numbering correct) and the
1401 (all of IBM fame). I had the privilege of working with such
Unit Record devices, and even to have programmed a few of the
old style plug boards.
I am greatful that those days are over!
William R. Buckley
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Walker <lwalker(a)mail.interlog.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Date: Friday, March 12, 1999 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: Got a question....PDP? VAX?
On 12 Mar 99 at 17:53, Mike Ford wrote:
> >Hi!
> >
> >I've been growing up in the age of "IBM era" of computers. The only
non-IBM
> >(compatible) computers that I've worked on was an apple //c and a TRS-80
> >model III that nearly caught my basement on fire. I'm 16 years old, so I
> >haven't had any experience with any pre 1980's stuff (other than the
//c).
> >
> >What I'm wondering, is what exactly is a PDP, or a VAX, or an Altair, or
any
> >of the other things that come up frequently on the list. Also - how is
one
> >of the computers (such as the Altair) operated, with all the switches and
> >indicators? Is there a keyboard or a monitor with it?
>
> Wow, do you want the one or two paragraph history of computing as we know
it?
>
> Maybe Moore's law explains it best, every couple of years computers get
> twice as fast, for half the money and size. Now Start with a typical
> present day Pentibum II 400 Mhz 128 MB ram 10 GB hard drive that sells for
> $2000 and go back in time 20 years (about 10 of Moore's cycles). Computers
> were 1000 times slower, bigger, and more expensive. That was a different
> world, and you had to treat such valuable resources differently. People,
> and really only a small favored few, had to share the computers, and time
> 24 hours a day was highly prized.
>
> Around 1970 a computer about as powerfull as a present day $100 calculator
> cost about $10 million and required a large secure and temperature
> controlled room. That was the mainstream of mainframe computers. The
> computer was the size of a kids play house, and all around it in the large
> room were "peripherals" designed to keep the main cpu busy working all the
> time.
>
> Away from the main IBM oriented data processing shops, dozens of smaller
> companies fought for the minicomputer market. Smaller, and less powerfull
> in absolute terms, these units were targeted at the scientific and
> industrial users who needed the computational or control that only
> computers allowed. Minicomputers weren't that different from mainframes,
> just scaled down in some senses, and optimized in others.
>
> Digital Equipment Corporation, DEC was one of these minicomputer
companies,
> and its PDP line was hugely popular in many areas. Industry, banking,
> telephone, and most important universities. The DEC PDP series became the
> platform that many computer scientists experiemented on, and many students
> still didn't get to use. As Moores law improved the lot, the VAX line came
> out, and people logged on with gusto forever after.
>
> Oh, those switches and lights are mostly because the hardware and software
> used to screw up fairly often, and by looking at the lights, and flipping
> switches the operation of the computer could be single stepped (one
> instruction per button push) and errors identified so they could be
> corrected.
>
Wow, great thread. Thanks Jason.
I tend to think of the evolution of computers in physical relation to
myself.
In an incarnation in the mid-fifties, I worked for a large government
department as a "junior IBM operator" I worked sorting IBM cards,
reproducing
cards that were "bent, mutillated, and spindalled", and wired peg-boards to
interpret the data contained on those cards, which were "punched" by a
room-full of typist "punch-card operators". Even tho this was a large gov.
apparatus, the machines could only be "leased" not bought from IBM and
even some programs were rented. In a temperature-controlled room
filled with machines spinning large metal tape-reels were the "high priests"
of this genre. I never entered that room. It had windows where you could see
the esoteric operatives at work.
In the 70's I worked for a large railway keeping track of boxcars entering
and
leaving the Yard. I would write up a report each day and submit it to the
computer room. Again, a temperature and environment controlled room, but
the "priests" were fellow workers who, tho aloof, I could talk to. And I
could
even enter the "temple"
Fast forward to the early eighties in a tech school.
Each student had a terminal ID to access the main computers but they were
at another location which I never saw. The school could even have been
renting
service space from another provider. But in the course I actually used a
real
computer more or less, an ET3400, to explore the godlike ways. We also had
a trainer in which you could enter and step thru each program using switches
with LED indicators. In a tech-course a few years later I was introduced to
floppydisks using an Osbourne. We smoked and drank cokes using them.
To me the great flowering of the 8-bits was the demystifying of computer
arts. Unfortunately, I feel OS2, Win9x, and NT are removing us from
that control ,as against the "high Priests" of VAX. It's amusing to
remember that my professors looked blank when I asked them about Unix
in 83 after reading about it in "Electronics" magazine. I explained it as
simply a method of disk storage organisation and access.
Altho the computer world has changed mightily I think the "deification"
remains with the minis and mainframes and Unix is it's theology. I
appreciate Linux precisely because it has an empowering feel to it.
That is the glory of the personal computer.
I have a PDP-8 maintenance manual and an IBM VS360/370 programmers
manual and at some point I will study them. But neither can give me the joy
of
an old "populist" 8-bit programming manual, with a code-bloatless program to
automate your toaster on a 64k ram machine. That was elegance.
Flame away.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
For those individuals interested in HPIB stuff that's unusual, I have an
MSC 9305 HPIB ST-506 interface hard disk controller. This product was one
I bought in 1981 and never used, but since the hardware and its
documentation are in the same place at the moment, I thought I'd see if
someone wanted it worse than I do. It has great potential as a data logger
or even a traffic recorder. I'm up for a trade, with my target being some
sort of fairly simple SBC with resident firmware and documentation. An
evaluation board from MOT or somthing on that order would suffice, I think,
provided it's functional and documented.
regards,
Dick
----------
> From: Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: wanted: muMath and/or muLisp for Apple II or CP/M
> Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 4:38 PM
>
> Eric-
>
> Check with me next time you're in Denver. I may still have the software
> somewhere, but I know I had the CP/M-version documents in my hand about a
> week ago.
>
> Dick
>
> ----------
> > From: Eric Smith <eric(a)brouhaha.com>
> > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> <classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> > Subject: wanted: muMath and/or muLisp for Apple II or CP/M
> > Date: Sunday, March 14, 1999 3:22 PM
> >
> > I seem to have misplaced my copies of muMath and muLisp for
> > the Apple II. If anyone would like to sell their old ones
> > to me, please let me know. The CP/M version would also be
> > of interest. If all else fails, I could live with the
> > PC-DOS version, but I don't want Derive (the product that
> > replaced muMath).
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Eric
