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101090 discussions

Fix for 4.3BSD-Quasijarus bootstrap on CMD SCSI controllers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Josh Dersch > Thought I'd share this fix with you all just in case someone in the > future might make use of it. To help disseminate it, I uploaded the fix to the Computer History wiki: http://gunkies.org/wiki/CDU-710/M_disk_controller > From: Lars Brinkhoff > There's no central repository for fixes like these? Well, the CH wiki would be a good place, but creating new accounts on it is proving to be difficult. I'm trying to get ahold of one of the two bureacrats, to make me an admin (I've been one on Wikipedia since the Devonian), so I can create accounts for people, but so far no luck. Noel

8 years, 3 months

National Semiconductor IMP mini

by vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net

-------- Original message -------- From: Raymond Wiker <rwiker at gmail.com> Date: 2017-01-02 11:01 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini I see he also has an Apple II that he wants $2000 for --- it's listed as "NON WORKING ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS FROM EXTREME AGE", and from date codes and copyright markings it appears to be far from original. In fact, the motherboard seems to be a Rev 7 RFI motherboard, and the processor is (I think) from 1985. If that one is worth $2000, my Apple IIs must be worth at least $6000 each :-) On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 5:24 AM, jim stephens <jwsmail at jwsss.com> wrote: > > > On 1/2/2017 8:08 PM, Josh Dersch wrote: > >> On 1/2/17 7:58 PM, Brad H wrote: >> >> >>> -------- Original message -------- >>> From: Josh Dersch <derschjo at gmail.com> >>> Date: 2017-01-02? 7:37 PM? (GMT-08:00) >>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" < >>> cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>> Subject: Re: National Semiconductor IMP mini >>> >>> >>> On 1/2/17 7:22 PM, jim stephens wrote: >>> >>>> This system looks pretty interesting, though pricey. I'm thinking it >>>> is going to be a development machine as all the switches and display >>>> would not probably have been on a production machine. >>>> >>>> I don't think National made many minicomputer format machines, in >>>> their history, someone correct me.? That might make this pretty rare >>>> on that front as well. >>>> >>>> thanks >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> Beautiful-1974-NATIONAL-SEMICONDUCTOR-COMPUTER-model-imp-16p/ >>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/252700755919 >>>> >>>> Yeah, it's pretty cool but I don't think the seller has reasonable >>> expectations for actually selling it -- the auction started (I believe) >>> at $1500 (which may have been a reasonable price), then the seller >>> raised it to $2500, now it's at $3500 (which is fairly outrageous, in my >>> >>>> opinion).? I'm not sure what his strategy is. >>>> Bitsavers has manuals (of course...) >>>> - Josh >>>> >>> I think he figured toggle switches and lights = $$$$.? He might be >>> correct, given the obscene money I've seen laid out just for a PDP 8/e >>> faceplate. You never know a) what will motivate a collector and b) when >>> just the right collector for a given item will show up.? Every day I thank >>> my lucky stars they didn't, for whatever reason, show up for my Mark-8 >>> boards. >>> >> >> With the "No shipping cash on pickup" proviso the seller provides, I feel >> fairly certain no one's biting.? But I've been surprised before... >> >> - Josh >> > > I also passed on a PDP8/M he had, which was quite rangy then posted this > auction.? I had not come across the listing from before. > > The "Oh it must be worth a fortune", even canceling an auction 2 weeks ago > on me.? I didn't think to pay for it on auction closing, since I'd been > sniping it, or I could have really reamed the seller.? I have not gotten a > straight response from them since then. > > I would not have noted this other than what i think is a rarity. Sad that > the guy is holding it hostage from someone who could get hold of it and run > it.? I think there is one in the CHM collection from what i was told when I > checked on it before sharing here, so there is one preserved.? However > would be interesting to see one in such as Josh's or Ian's hands running. > (or many others, just share a lot with them and they are lighting blink'n > lights more than me right now). > > thanks > Jim > > I brought the RFI thing up with him. ?No response. ?There is a legit Rev 1 there too asking $3500. ?I don't find Apple IIs below Rev 0 that interesting anymore, personally. ?I think even the legit guy would struggle to get much above $1500.

8 years, 3 months

was: National Semi... is Apple ][ collectability (if any)

by vintagecomputer＠bettercomputing.net

-------- Original message -------- From: "drlegendre ." <drlegendre at gmail.com> Date: 2017-01-03 8:03 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: was: National Semi... is Apple ][ collectability (if any) "Vent-less case" - LoL!! Add some RAM, maybe a DISC-II card and those things overheated even +with+ the vents.. that's why the Cider fan became popular, among other things. When I was in high school, we'd pop the case tops open, and run them that way. Otherwise, they'd overheat and start screwing up after the first or second class period. On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Brad H <vintagecomputer at bettercomputing.net > wrote: > >On 1/2/2017 11:26 PM, Brad H wrote: > > I brought the RFI thing up with him.? No response.? There is a legit Rev > 1 there too asking $3500.? I don't find Apple IIs below Rev 0 that > interesting anymore, personally.? I think even the legit guy would struggle > to get much above $1500. > >The vintagecomputer museum guy on epay is selling mounted and framed > motherboards now for $1500 (might not >work noted). > > >I guess someone would care about low ref Apple 2's but I'm not sure why > there would be any interest.? I've got one >I bought with the original > packing box, which I have picked and moved twice, which is rare for my > collecting, but I >don't know what makes any Apple 2 like that > collectible.? As in why are they collectible with low serials / part > >numbers. > > >is there any documentation as to when they were made with those numbers > that would make them significant?? >The numbers made as Raymond said would > make most of us with Apple 2's millionaires I'd think unless they have > >some other significance. > > >just curious. > >thanks > >Jim > > When I got into collecting an original Apple II was as rare as hen's teeth > on ebay, etc.? Those got huge bucks, regardless of rev.? Then sellers > caught on and stuff started coming out of closets, basements, estate > sales.? I actually track Apple II sales and prices have massively declined > since 15 years ago.? I mean, there's 60000+ out there theoretically, and > II+ shared the same components and production lines for a time.? Only diff > was the ROMs.? Now Rev 0 is where it's at, especially a rare ventless > case.? Oh, and late SNs in the 70000 range for some reason still get > $700-800.? I don't know why. > > The one thing I can tell you is, if an 'expert' tells you something about > original II production, there's a good chance they are wrong.? Some > authoritative sources claimed no Rev 02 boards went into public hands, for > example, but I have one in my SN 16000s machine.? Some would claim that > can't be original, but it is.. the date code on it is the same as the > keyboard and case, all right in the range of other 16000 series machines, > which on either side of mine have Rev 03.? Apple didn't use the same rev > consistently.. sometimes they just grabbed from the pile.? It's kind of a > dogs breakfast after Rev 0. > > My Rev 02 operates no differently, other than Integer BASIC, than my RFI > II+.? More and more I'm not finding IIs to be all that amazing or worth > fighting over.? A Rev 0, just owing to the few truly unique design > features, is the only one I might want now. > > > > Yeah. ?We were on to IIes when I was in grade school and then Commodores and PCs after that.. original IIs and II+ were long gone. ?I have four units and never have any issue but come to think of it I do tend to run them case top off. ?I imagine other users might have run them with the monitor (another massive heat source) sitting right on top. I think the ventless cases also were made of a weaker plastic that melted and warped just from the heat of the innards. ?The few examples I've seen are almost invariably somewhat concave. ?

8 years, 3 months

Desparately seeking Cromemco chassis (UK)

by james＠attfield.co.uk

Wishing all here a very Happy New Year! Along with some other folks in 2017 I have decided I am going to ripple through all of my vintage systems and warm their beautiful and friendly caches. I won't have a problem with my BBC Micro, Atari 1040ST, Amiga 500's, 2000's, 3000 and 4000 and the PowerMac's but what I really would like is to bring my Cromemco back on line. I have the cards (DPU, 256KZ, 16FDC plus sundry others e.g. Quadart, IOP) and drives (Tandon TM100 5" and dual TM848 8") but although I have a naked Blitz Bus I lack a decent chassis. This is a plea for any kind soul with a spare or unwanted chassis who is prepared to let one go to help me out. Ideally a CS/3 chassis would be preferable however a Z2D, Z2 or even a System 1 chassis would be gratefully given a loving and permanent home. Naturally, given the weight of same, I expect I would have to pick up or arrange transport so regretfully any offers would have to be UK-based. The CS/3, and the Z2/Z2D had power supplies designed to handle a fully loaded bus of 21 S-100 cards (although I never handled one with more than 12 or so) and were one of those rare systems which could pass Navy certification i.e. survive being stood on by a rating in full gear and boots so were quite substantial. I would also be very interested in a 64FDC and any 5Mb or 20Mb IMI drives as I have a WDI-II controller, alternatively an STDC controller. James ---- James Attfield West Midlands, UK G8ZMP

8 years, 3 months

LGP-30 Memory Drum Update

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

In a message dated 1/3/2017 11:11:54 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, elson at pico-systems.com writes: On 01/03/2017 10:58 AM, Cory Heisterkamp wrote: > While waiting for the machine, I decided to investigate the stuck drum. > This unit has 71 read/write heads plus what appears to be an inductive > pickup for the system clock. Upon closer examination I discovered multiple > heads in contact with the drum surface preventing rotation. And in the > process of removing the mounting bars that secure the heads only then did > damage become visible on a couple of tracks (scored oxide under the heads). Most likely the same issue as the G-15 we had. Dust was allowed to get into the drum area and pack under the heads. Probably if you pull the heads and clean them, it will restore clearance. Of course, the bearings may be bad, or will have to be replaced anyway as the grease may have hardened. > > > What I?m wondering is if anyone is familiar with the setup/adjustment > procedure for getting the heads set correctly. There *might* be a couple of > unused tracks I can relocate heads to, but my thought is that if half a > dozen heads were already in contact, then the rest may be perilously close > as well (swelled drum?). My odds of setting 71 heads perfectly on a 50 year > old worn drum is?well?not great. > If the drum can be set up to run true again (may need attention to bearings) then I think setting the heads up won't be that tough. I suspect it is done with a feeler gauge, this is low-resolution stuff with large gaps in the heads, so the heads probably run with a gap of at least .005" (~ 0.1mm) (I'd think, without actually knowing). > > For kicks, I tried to use a piece of cheap (=thin) (0.004?) notebook paper > as a feeler gage to see if I could identify the offending heads prior to > support removal. This was a no-go as clearance was too tight. So, is it > true these ride 0.001? off the surface? Well, it could be. That sounds really close for the vintage involved. So, maybe the drum or oxide has swelled. Anyway, if there is much damage to the oxide, it may not make sense to try to repair it. if the heads that jammed it left divots in the drum, or the surface is uneven (likely if swelling actually occurred) then it may require extreme efforts to repair. > > I suspect with temp and humidity changes, and given the age, I would be > better off building a solid state drum emulator for the 4KW mem, but > retaining the drum for the clock and possibly the 3 fast registers..if I > can get those (7) heads set correctly. > > > > Why not just replace the whole works? If you are going to replace the long lines with electronic memory, doing the short lines and the clock track should be trivial. I think a mid-sized FPGA could do it all quite easily. My guess is that if the surface is uneven, it may not read back data reliably. The high spots might be fine, the low spots will have dropouts. This is all assuming swelling was the culprit. It is also possible that machined parts suffered stress relief over the years. Wrought metal has stress imparted to it when rolled, and then machining will partially relieve the stresses, causing warpage. The warping continues over time. To eliminate this, critical parts are machined close to size, heat treated to relieve the stress, and then finish ground to exact dimensions. It is possible some of the stress wasn't relieved during manufacture. And, nobody expected a 195x machine to be running in 2017, especially as anybody in the computer business knew those transistors were right around the corner, and would almost certainly replace tubes. Jon Cory - then what holds the oxide to the drum? Horrible thoughts of what happens to binder layers on mag tape... flaking, sticky shed.... ecccshhh! I deal with this problem all the time on some of the historic video tape we have done conversion on out of our media lab.....

8 years, 3 months

PDP-10 Foonex

by bygg＠cafax.se

> Appeared here: > > http://github.com/PDP-10/FOONEX The web says: "Initial checkin whilst I figure out what format the files are" I took a quick look and guessed a little: #include <stdio.h> typedef unsigned long long w36; void pchar(char c) { c &= 0177; if ((c < ' ') || (c == 0177)) c = ' '; putchar(c); } int main(int argc, char* argv[]) { int wnum = 0; int c1, c2, c3, c4, c5; w36 w; int lh, rh; for (;;) { w = getchar(); w <<= 8; w |= getchar(); w <<= 8; w |= getchar(); w <<= 8; w |= getchar(); w <<= 4; c5 = getchar(); if (c5 == EOF) break; w |= (c5 & 0x0f); lh = w >> 18; rh = w & 0777777; c1 = (w >> 29) & 0177; c2 = (w >> 22) & 0177; c3 = (w >> 15) & 0177; c4 = (w >> 8) & 0177; c5 = (w >> 1) & 0177; printf(" %6o: %9llx %06o,,%06o", wnum, w, lh, rh); printf(" %3o %3o %3o %3o %3o \"", c1, c2, c3, c4, c5); pchar(c1); pchar(c2); pchar(c3); pchar(c4); pchar(c5); printf("\"\n"); wnum += 1; } return 0; } resulted in: 0: 7000037 000700,,000067 0 34 0 0 33 " " 1: 21f30 000000,,417460 0 0 4 37 30 " " 2: 894e5ba78 422471,,335170 104 123 113 72 74 "DSK:<" 3: 8d3e7ce8a 432371,,747212 106 117 117 116 105 "FOONE" 4: b0fa1c882 541750,,344202 130 76 103 110 101 "X>CHA" 5: 9f4d74d82 476465,,646602 117 123 56 115 101 "OS.MA" 6: 86ed9b972 415666,,334562 103 73 63 71 71 "C;399" 7: 0 000000,,000000 0 0 0 0 0 " " [snip] 777: 0 000000,,000000 0 0 0 0 0 " " 1000: 774e94374 356472,,241564 73 123 122 103 72 ";SRC:" 1001: 794ecd35c 362473,,151534 74 123 131 123 56 "<SYS." 1002: 9b3e749a8 466371,,644650 115 117 116 111 124 "MONIT" 1003: 9f49f4390 476447,,641620 117 122 76 103 110 "OR>CH" 1004: 833e9ae9a 406372,,327232 101 117 123 56 115 "AOS.M" 1005: 830d73372 406065,,631562 101 103 56 63 71 "AC.39" 1006: 6e810375a 335004,,033532 67 40 40 67 55 "7 7-" 1007: 9b87cad70 467037,,126560 115 141 171 55 70 "May-8" 1010: 62818b974 305006,,134564 61 40 61 71 72 "1 19:" 1011: 66d5d346c 315527,,232154 63 65 72 64 66 "35:46" 1012: 58822e4d2 261010,,562322 54 40 105 144 151 ", Edi" 1013: e88317940 721014,,274500 164 40 142 171 40 "t by " 1014: 9b361cd1a 466330,,346432 115 115 103 115 15 "MMCM " [and so on] Looks like a tape in core-dump format with a header page. Should be kindof trivial to process these into plain text automagically. --Johnny

8 years, 3 months

PDP-10 Foonex

by lars＠nocrew.org

Appeared here: http://github.com/PDP-10/FOONEX

8 years, 3 months

IA-1010 Z-80 board difficulties!

by Mark＠Misty.com

Hi, On Mon, Jan 02, 2017 at 10:32:28PM -0800, Richard Pope wrote: > Walter, > . . . . I appreciate all of this information. I have a revision 2.0 > board and my info shows U8 as a 96S02 multivibrator chip. I have tried > to find a replacement for this and I have not been successful. I believe this is a suitable replacement. I found it while getting the parts together necessary to build my bare IA-1010 Z-80 board. "AM26S02PC - Schottky Monostable Multivibrator ( 5 pcs ) - 16 Pin DIP Plastic" http://www.ebay.com/itm/261370092245 Mark -- Mark G. Thomas (Mark at Misty.com), KC3DRE

8 years, 3 months

ISO Compugraphic MCS-10 keyboard

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Pics of what I'm trying to find at http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/compugraphic/mcs_keyb/ Bought one w/o kb or monitor and managed to locate a few floppies for it. CP/M 86 was available from CG, but I don't think there's much chance of ever finding that. Even just a dump of the microcontroller in the kb would be helpful. I'm not quite sure who the contact would be at retrocomputing.net to ask if they could dump the one in theirs. I have the PALs dumped and disassembled, will have those up on bitsavers later this morning.

8 years, 3 months

Hollerith cars available (ebay warning).

by jwsmail＠jwsss.com

Sorry for posting the National machine w/o an Ebay warning. Anyway anyone that has a home keypunch will possibly be interested in this guy. I have ordered up a pile, as I doubt they will show up this cheap unless someone takes it on themselves to manufacture them as the earlier discussions suggested. Not holding my breath for that. I don't personally care that there is a lot of crap printed on them, rather than the column indexes. The machines don't read that, and the top band is clear for my keypunches to write there with whatever is on the card. thanks Jim Has cases of 2000 and also cases of 5 x 2000 = 10000 cards (look for the 5 case auction separately) http://www.ebay.com/itm/272488557055

8 years, 3 months

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