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101090 discussions

A 'good-enough' H960 |d|i|g|i|t|a|l| PDP11 masthead replica

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Steven Malikoff > a replica PDP11 masthead panel for the DEC H960 rack. That would be great! (I'd buy one! Or more!) But how are you going to produce the plastic housing? I suspect that's going to be harder than the inset coloured panel. > I need some help from the list, if possible - I would like the > dimensions of the width and height. The inset (the coloured part) is 8.45 cm high (it's slightly smaller than the inset in the plastic housing, by about .5 mm); alas, I don't have a metric ruler long enough to measure the width directly, but in Imperial it's 3-21/64" by 18-9/16". I don't have a good way to accurately measure the radius in the corners, but it seems to be about 8.5 to 9.5 mm. > I also would like to know of the outer edge of the masthead is a beige > colour, or even silver. The raised edge around the inset panel is painted a dull silver - like the old silver paint, but with a touch of grey in it. The edge itself is 4.1mm wide, according to my calipers. > The panel would be the inner bit with the radiused corners, the edges > being a seperately cut panel which is in front of the the detailed one. Not sure I follow this? The entire top unit, including the raised edge around the coloured inset, is a moderately complex injection moulded plastic piece; behind the front, it's kind of like a box that's open at the back, and there's a ridge around the back edge on three sides; the bottom edge is shorter, and the top edge is extended further back. Finally, there are a couple of internal tabs where it actually connects to the H960. If you want an original to copy, TopLine has one for sale on eBay (ignore the ridiculous price they've got on it, they are very reasonable). > I would also like to know how deep the recess is for the front. I > suspect the same as the filler panel bezel edge, about 3mm. 4.0 mm by my 0.5 mm ruler. > And also the depth of the plastic backing. You mean, how thick is the plastic in the housing? 2.7 mm in one place, 2.8 mm in another, 2.3 mm in a third? Interestingly, IYWR, in previous thread we'd mentioned how other people produced their own insets; one for a terminal server, and one for the LISP Machine. I looked at my LISP Machine one, which I had assumed was in a similar housing, but it's not! It does indeed fit on an H960 (the early LISP Machines were built in H960's), but it's quite different. It's in an extruded aluminium unit (of constant cross-section), with no end pieces (although the bottom plate has small squared cut out of the corners); the extrusion's cross-section is exact a capital 'F', but upside down. There are little square 'serifs' on the 'back' of the 'F' (the front side, when installed), and the printed panel fits in between them. Now that I look at it, it looks very similar to me to some things I seem to vaguely recall being used on earlier DEC machines (either a PDP-6, or a KA-10, I don't recall where it looks familar from). It being a more-expensive aluminium extrusion makes sense; that was back when that sort of thing (along with lots of lights! :-) was acceptable. Noel

10 years, 11 months

How many use old browsers (e.g. =< Netscape 4 or IE 6) as their ONLY source of web content?

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

>Liam Proven wrote: >>On 3 July 2015 at 18:22, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote: > > >>I understand that Netscape has been replaced by Mozilla. HOWEVER, >>since CHROME seems to be the most widely used, would CHROME >>be able to support the retention of ALL of my old e-mails and posts >>from usenet? Over the past 15 years, I probably have accumulated >>over 100,000 e-mails and posts in about 130 folders! So I would like >>an easy upgrade path which supports being able to view and modify those >>old e-mails and usenet posts. Can CHROME support that? >> >> > > >Chrome is just a web browser. It does not do email at all. > >However, the program that was called Netscape 6.x & 7.x is alive and >well. It was the "Mozilla Internet Suite" -- the final Netscape >releases were Mozilla, rebadged. As Mozilla Inc now focuses on >Firefox, the old Internet Suite was forked and is now called >SeaMonkey. > >http://www.seamonkey-project.org/ > >SeaMonkey will run fine on Windows 7. > >What you may have to do is this: > >[1] Use an old version of Thunderbird (Mozilla's standalone email >client) to import your Netscape 7 profile. Details here: > >http://kb.mozillazine.org/Migrate_from_Mozilla_Suite_or_Netscape_to_Thunder… > >[2] Use a newer version of Thunderbird to import the profile from old >Thunderbird: > >http://kb.mozillazine.org/Profile_migration_-_SeaMonkey > >This should import your entire Netscape profile and continue to work just fine. > >However, in the first instance, copy your whole Netscape 7.2 profile >from the Win98 machine to your unused Win7 machine. Reinstall Netscape >7.2 on the new machine and check it works. > >You can download it here: >http://sillydog.org/narchive/full67.php > >Then install SeaMonkey. It *should* notice and import your profile. > >It is very important to install Netscape *before* SeaMonkey. > Check

10 years, 11 months

[SPAM key] - Re: How many use old browsers (e.g. =< Netscape 4 or IE 6) as their ONLY source of web content?

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

>Jerome H. Fine wrote: > >Terry Stewart wrote: > >> I'm engaged in a Retrochallenge project where I'm recoding my >> classic-computers.org.nz site to make it suitable for mobile >> platforms. I >> want to modernise the code as well, making it as close to HTML5 >> standard as >> I can >> >> The RetroChallenge blog site is here. >> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-06-29-recoding-classic-comput… > > > I checked this site under WinXP and found no problems. The software > is very old, but a quick search did not locate the version. As I mentioned, I backup up my Win98SE system, then accessed all of the links under Netscape 7.2 without any problems. >> In doing this, I will probably need to say goodbye to old browser >> compatibility. As in old I mean Netscape 4 or earlier, and other >> pre-2000 >> browsers (and possibly IE 6, as it's not very standard). > > As I noted in the statistics, I am one of the VERY, VERY, VERY few > still using 32-bit Win98SE and Netscape 7.2 for e-mail and sending this > reply. While I prefer to stay with Win98SE, I may upgrade to 64-bit Win7 > so I can use a faster computer to run the emulator that I use: Ersatz-11. I understand that Netscape has been replaced by Mozilla. HOWEVER, since CHROME seems to be the most widely used, would CHROME be able to support the retention of ALL of my old e-mails and posts >from usenet? Over the past 15 years, I probably have accumulated over 100,000 e-mails and posts in about 130 folders! So I would like an easy upgrade path which supports being able to view and modify those old e-mails and usenet posts. Can CHROME support that? >> The website does have a few articles and resources of interest to >> vintage >> computer hobbyists, which I wouldn't want to make inaccessible. The >> question is, how many guys like us, those who dabble with old tech, are >> likely to use ancient browsers as their ONLY source of web content. I >> suspect not many. Should I worry about it? Any comments welcome. >> >> On a related note, I'd be interested if anyone on the list CAN'T read >> this >> page properly: >> http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/temp.html > > This link also found no problems under WinXP. > > I have not checked out either of the links under Netscape 7.2 since > any problems might be difficult to correct. After I perform a backup > of my C: drive and it will be possible to easily restore my system, I > will try them. As I mentioned, I backup up my C: drive, then accessed all of the links via Netscape 7.2 and found then all without any problems. >> It's a new blog page template I've developed using HTML5 and is mobile >> friendly. If it doesn't show up properly I'll be interested to know >> what >> browser you're using. >> >> Please be kind about the HTML5 and CCS code. I don't do this for a job, >> and it's a big learning curve for me. >> >> P.S. Here are some interesting stats. For myself, I've been a Chrome >> user >> for a number of years now. >> http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp >> >> Terry (Tez) > > Obviously, I am in the negligible category for still using Win98SE and > Netscape 7.2 along with 1280 by 1024 for my video display. However, > at least I upgraded to a flat screen monitor after both of my previous > tube monitors died a few years ago. As I mentioned above, I will access > the 3 links you provide after I backup my C: drive. I normally avoid any > links to the internet on this Win98SE system and always restore the > C: drive after I do so. If there is a link that looks interesting, I > send > an e-mail to the WinXP system and check the link there. And just in case, I did perform a restore to my C: drive again. However, under Netscape 7.2, I am able to CLEAN CACHE and that did seem to restore everything back to before I accessed the links. At the very least, all of the files that were placed into the \cache\ sub-driectory were removed and the total number of files and sub-directories reduced to the original value from before the links were accessed. I don't know if making sure that there are no extra files and sub- directories around after I use Netscape 7.2 to download my e-mail, but I use that criteria to determine if anything that should not be present has been added to the C: drive. I realize that pre-existing files could have been corrupted, but I can't monitor everything. Also, after I download the incoming e-mails, I physically disconnect the cable to the router so that any e-mails with links that could be activated to files that might cause a problem can't be completed without the internet being available. If anyone who has read this far has any comments or suggestions, they would be very much appreciated! > Under WinXP, I looked over your page on emulators. I don't know > if you consider the PDP-11 and the VAX as classic, but they were not > included. The PDP-11 has many emulators including Ersatz-11 produced > by John Wilson at dbit. The SimH emulator also supports the PDP-11 along > with the VAX and a number of other hardware platforms. > > Do you not consider the PDP-11 a classic system? I realize that most of > the software is still legally proprietary, but hobby users are allowed to > legally use early versions of the software under SimH. Mentec, who > acquired most of the frequently used software from DEC, is no longer > active with the PDP-11. The software IP seems to be with another, > but that is difficult to verify, let alone to confirm whom to contact. Terry, I have not seem any response yet. Did you see my reply? Jerome Fine

10 years, 11 months

VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> > Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2015 00:25:01 +0100 > From: Antonio Carlini <a.carlini at ntlworld.com> > Subject: Re: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750) > > If the intention is to avoid a huge list then excluding MicroVAXes and > VAXstations should produce a list of VAXen > that you probably cannot easily simply carry home on the bus. > > That would unfortunately exclude the VAXstation 8000, which is pretty > rare AFAIK. It would also exclude the VAXstation I, > which I imagine is also relatively rare these days. > > I don't think you can easily come up with a simple set of criteria based > on power connectors or buses or similar. > > Perhaps "too big to hug" is what you really want :-) > > Antonio > My VAXstation 8000 (Missing the E&S chassis) is too big and heavy to carry home on a bus. -- Michael Thompson

10 years, 11 months

FW: VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

by bob＠jfcl.com

>Perhaps SDI is a typo for SBI, as in the 11/780? Yeah, exactly. Sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain :-) Synchronous Backplane Interconnect - the system bus used on the 78x and some of the 8000 machines. Bob

10 years, 11 months

VAX-11/750 registry (Was: Reviving a VAX-11/750)

by bob＠jfcl.com

>Johnny Billquist bqt at update.uu.se wrote: >some of the 8000-series stuff are probably the biggest ... Not all of them. The 82xx/83xx family was just one 10-1/2" chassis for the CPU - the same physical size as a 11/730, yet they were genuine single or dual CPU BI bus VAXen. Of course, many of their brothers were quite a bit bigger. And don't forget the VAXstation-8000... Bob

10 years, 11 months

cctech Digest, Vol 13, Issue 5

by clemc＠ccc.com

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 1:00 PM, <cctech-request at classiccmp.org> wrote: > Having the primary CPU just stall, and have the second CPU normally just > be idle until a page fault happens on the other hand is something I can see > how it could be done. ?Indeed that is exactly how it was done on the Masscomp MC-500 and I believe the original Apollo - this was know as "Forest Baskett Mode" - who wrote up the idea in a letter/comment to one of the architecture groups in the late 1970s when the chip was first released. The primary processor is called the "executor" and the second ?is called the "fixer." The fixer is either halted or runs a small loop keeping the translation buffer (TB) full. When the TB logic detects a fault for the executor, it is put in wait state and the fixer is restarted (if ned be) and refills the TB. When it's valid the executor is allowed to come out of wait state (a very slow memory fill). When the 68010 was released we make a small change the CPU board (a couple of PALs) and allowed the executor to actually fault. But the fixer still did the TB fill. But the executor could do a task switch and run some other code, while the fill was taking place. I'm not sure if Apollo updated their original CPU board or just designed a new one with the 68010, I would have to ask some one like Les Crudele to find out for sure. And Sun never did the Forest Baskett dual 68K trick. Sun-1's with 68000 ran a V7 version of swapping Unix (originally from Unisoft) until the 68010 came out when they could support VM on the "SUN-2" and Joy et all moved BSD 4.1 to it. One other note about the MC-500. If was the first commercial Multiprocessor UNIX (predating the 386 bases symmetric boxes but a few years) as well as being the first real time UNIX box. I still have working one in my basement. It has 4 CPU boards in it with a 68010 and 68000 on each, plus a 68000 in the display processor, a number of 29000's in the FP and APP's units, more 29000 logic in the Data Acq Unit, as well as 80186 in the network processor. All in all, a pretty neat federation of processors each doing their thing. Pretty cool for early 1980s' Clem

10 years, 11 months

List Gripes

by chocolatejollis38＠gmail.com

Well, I am once again re-subscribed to this list. Why it or its moderators decide to unceremoniously unsubscribe me every few months without warning is beyond me. Especially annoying when subscription requests always take 2-3 days to process. It would be _really_ nice to do a warning message to people who haven't broken any list rules and haven't asked to be removed before dumping them, especially if this is an automatically-triggered event based on the member's lack of posting activity. Just my two cents.

10 years, 11 months

SDK-86 Chess source code, anybody?

by rdawson16＠hotmail.com

I have the docs and the ROM images from Nigel, but not the source. I did my share of googling, nothing but a piece or two, and not the whole thing. Anybody have this? Thanks, Randy

10 years, 11 months

Looking for SGI Onyx parts

by ian.finder＠gmail.com

I recently picked up a full rack ( https://instagram.com/p/4yEZlYNSxx/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n) It was an awesome project, now that I have a home where I can install 220v. Unfortunately, one of the 4x R4400 @ 150mhz boards is shot, and the System Controller is shot. I borrowed the latter from another Onyx system, but don't like leaving systems in inoperable states. Does anyone have these or other ONYX parts they'd be willing to part with or sell? Thanks! - Ian -- Ian Finder (206) 395-MIPS ian.finder at gmail.com

10 years, 11 months

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