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101090 discussions

by jpw＠netwizards.net

>2) 80-Micro, TRS-80 Microcomputing News, Computer News 80, and 80-US >Journal magazines, etc. I think we have every issue of 80-Micro from Issue 1 to sometime in 1989(?) when it became 100% PC based and we let the subscription lapse. We even still have the 1982 (or was it 1983?) special 500+ page Christmas special. I can see if we are willing to part with it if you are interested. Later, --John

28 years, 4 months

Altairs (was RE: Collector Article)

by H.Davies＠latrobe.edu.au

At 10:53 PM 6/19/97 -0400, Mr. Self Destruct wrote: >On Thu, 19 Jun 1997, Marvin wrote: > >> Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >> > >> > I'm kind of curious how many Altairs we have on this list. I've got >> > 3... I know that Jim has at least 2. Who else? >> > >> >> I have three. >> > >I have none. :( Me too :-( OK, so I've always wanted to post a "Me too" response, and I've finally done it :-) Are there any other Australians on the list, and if so, any pointers to getting an Altair down under? In addition, I'm looking for an Epson PX-8 (aka Geneva). Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies(a)latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways"

28 years, 4 months

Collector Article

by dastar＠crl.com

Here's an article Doug Coward forwarded to me. You guys will get a kick out of it, especially the price list at the end. $200-$400 for an Apple ][...yeah right. I have some property on the moon... Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass 02490420 60320 THE CUTTING EDGE A Byte of History Techies Taking a Scroll Down Memory Lane Los Angeles Times (LT) - MONDAY August 12, 1996 By: GREG MILLER; TIMES STAFF WRITER Edition: Home Edition Section: Business Page: 1 Pt. D Story Type: Main Story; Infobox Word Count: 1,797 TEXT: The nerds are getting nostalgic. Barely 20 years into the personal computer revolution, techies across the country are growing increasingly sentimental about the machines and programs that changed their lives and ushered in the Information Age. For them, booting up a vintage Commodore PET computer can conjure misty-eyed memories. Toggling the switches of an Altair 8800 is better than gripping the gearshift of a first car. And a shrink-wrapped copy of VisiCalc software beats a mint-condition Mickey Mantle baseball card any day. This is the memorabilia of the PC generation, and after spending much of the last decade or two collecting dust in suburban garages from Silicon Valley to Boston's Route 128, it's starting to make a comeback. Virtual museums of vintage hardware and software are sprouting up all over the Internet's World Wide Web, as are online classified ads placed by collectors desperate to reacquire the technological wonders of their youth. Some rare PCs are fetching much higher prices now than they did when they were brand-new, and even revered institutions such as the Smithsonian are bolstering their computer collections. "The amount of activity that I see is amazing," said Kip Crosby, president of the Computer History Assn. of California in Palo Alto. "People are always asking me: 'Can you find me an Altair? Can you find this or that?' I get 10 to 20 phone calls and e-mails a month, twice as many as a year ago." Most of these early machines and programs, which didn't work very well when they were new, are even more troublesome to maintain now--and have been rendered obsolete by wave after wave of new equipment. But like certain cars or baseball cards, high-tech relics are somehow enhanced by the passage of time. Collectors see them as the symbols of a more colorful computer age populated by legendary personalities who became billionaires--or, in some cases, went bust. "That's why I'm interested in computer history," said Co Ho, 30, an Internet administrator at Fullerton College. "Many people could have made it big, but they fell asleep and ended up having somebody else eating their cake." Ho collects vintage software, especially programs that changed the computing landscape but somehow faltered. One of his favorite pieces is CP/M, an early operating system created by Digital Research. CP/M might have become the operating system had Digital Research's founder, the late Gary Kildall, been more hospitable when IBM came calling to license his software. In a legendary blunder, Kildall and his wife refused to sign IBM's confidentiality agreement, and IBM executives took their business to a then-tiny company known as Microsoft. "CP/M missed the boat because of casual behavior," Ho said. "It's really a sad story." Ho is one of the few people who collect software. More collect hardware, and one of the most sought-after machines is the Altair 8800, introduced by MITS Inc. of Albuquerque in 1975. It didn't have a keyboard or a monitor, only rows of switches on the front of the box. The Altair kit sold for $395 when it was new, but one in good condition today can fetch as much as $1,500 because of the exalted position it holds in computer history. Widely regarded as the first mass-market personal computer, it launched a craze when it appeared on the cover of the January 1975 issue of Popular Electronics. Bill Gates even dropped out of Harvard to develop an early version of the Basic programming language for the Altair. The Altair "established Bill Gates in business," said Gwen Bell, founder of the Computer Museum, a Boston mecca for computer lovers. "One of our prize treasures is the original Basic tape that Bill Gates developed on the Altair." Collectors tend to pass over some of the most popular early machines, such as the original IBM PC and the 1984 Apple Macintosh, because there are just too many of them. Scarcity counts, which helps explain why the most valuable collectible is the Apple I. Introduced by Steven Jobs and Stephen Wozniak in 1976, the Apple I was nothing more than a circuit board. It had no keyboard, no monitor, not even a case. It sold for $666, and only a few hundred were produced. A well-preserved Apple I can fetch as much as $12,000 today, sometimes more. An Apple I signed by Jobs and Wozniak sold for $22,000 at a fund-raiser auction for the Computer Museum several months ago, Bell said. That kind of appreciation has attracted the attention of even non-techie collectors. "I got a call from an investment advisor for a Wall Street banker," Bell said. "He asked: 'Should I get him into collecting old computers? Will they increase in value more than art?' I said, 'I don't know--I'm not a dealer.' " In fact, there aren't any prominent dealers of antique computers, at least not yet. But a few collectors are hoping to change that, including David Greelish, founder of the Historical Computer Society in Jacksonville, Fla. Greelish, a computer repairman, has spent about $2,600 in recent years building a collection of 35 computers, mostly by trolling for bargains on the Internet. He uses search engines such as Yahoo to root out online classified ads for Altairs and other vintage machines, and he keeps an eye on alt.folklore.computers, a newsgroup where history buffs hang out. "Ultimately, I would like to see (the Historical Computer Society) grow and publish magazines and books," he said. "I'd like to start displaying our collection and even restoring computers for sale." Greelish and others said would-be collectors should look for machines that look clean, have all the original equipment and documentation and still run. A number of guidebooks are available, including Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by WorldComm in Asheville, N.C., and "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis. Experts urge caution, however. There's no guarantee that old computers will grow in value, and they are very difficult to maintain. "If you've never opened up your computer and looked inside, this is probably not the collectible for you," Bell said. Instead, experts say, this is a hobby better left to people who were enthralled by the recent PBS documentary "Triumph of the Nerds," people who still have a soft spot for monochrome terminals, "Chiclet" keyboards and the odd shapes of the early machines. But even among techies, there are plenty of people who scoff at this new fad, including Kim Nelson, service manager at ACP Superstore in Santa Ana. Founded 20 years ago, ACP is one of the oldest computer stores in Southern California, holds swap meets that attract legions of collectors, and might be one of the region's best unofficial museums. The store's top shelves are crammed with artifacts of computer history, although Nelson calls it junk. "Isn't it amazing that we have computer folklore now," he said, walking with a reporter along rows of vintage Commodores, Imsais and Tandys. "That's kind of sad when you think about it. Seems to me there are things that are a lot more important." But as he uttered those words, service technician John Krill walked by and surveyed the line of creaky machines. Almost against his will, Nelson was sucked into an episode of technology reverie. "Look at that Kaypro," Krill said. "That company grew so fast they were warehousing their inventory in tents." "Weren't they the ones that had the fire too?" asked Nelson, perking up just a bit and eager to demonstrate his techno-trivia prowess. The conversation drifted from machine to machine. "When I was in college, I would just leave my Osborne up in the library," Krill said with a laugh, recalling the immobility of the first portable computer. "The damned thing weighed 27 pounds. I didn't want to lug it around." Fifteen minutes passed before the two realized that their walk down memory lane might have strained the attention span of their guest. "That's enough, John," Nelson finally said with an embarrassed grin. "You're boring him." Greg Miller can be reached via e-mail at greg.miller atimes.com (BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC) Computer Collectibles Here are some of the PCs attracting the attention of nostalgic techies: Model: Apple I Year introduced: 1976 Original price: $666 Current value: $10,000-$12,000 * Model: Mark-8 Year introduced: 1974 Original price: $250 Current value: $3,500-$4,000 * Model: Scelbi 8H Year introduced: 1973 Original price: $440 Current value: $1,200-$1,500 * Model: Altair 8800 Year introduced: 1975 Original price: $395 Current value: $1,200-$1,500 * Model: Imsai 8080 Year introduced: 1975 Original price: $440 Current value: $400-$600 * Model: Apple II Year introduced: 1977 Original price: $1,195 Current value: $200-$400 * Model: Osborne I Year introduced: 1981 Original price: $1,795 Current value: $200-$300 Descriptions: Apple I: With no monitor, no keyboard and no case, the Apple I was little more than a circuit board. Only a few hundred were produced. Mark-8: A kit computer that was the subject of the first magazine article describing how to build a computer. The article appeared in Radio Electronics Magazine in 1974. Scelbi: Predated the Altair and was the first computer based on a microprocessor advertised for sale. Only a small number was made. Altair 8800: Programmed by switches, the Altair 8800 had no keyboard, no monitor and just 256 bytes of memory. But it is widely regarded as the first mass-market personal computer. The Altair, based on an Intel processor, started a craze when it appeared on the cover of Popular Electronics magazine in January 1975. Imsai 8080: Modeled on the Altair, the Imsai had several technological advances and a more polished look. Had no keyboard or monitor but was briefly the fastest-selling personal computer. Apple II: This is the machine that launched the company--and the personal computer industry. Apple II computers came with a keyboard, monitor and two disk drives. Most important, they ran VisiCalc, the original spreadsheet program that was the personal computer's "killer application." Osborne I: Considered the first portable computer, even though it weighed about 30 pounds and was the size of a suitcase. It had a 5-inch screen, two floppy disk drives and 64K of RAM. Sources: Stan Veit's "History of the Personal Computer," published by WorldComm, Asheville, N.C.; David Greelish, president, Historical Computer Society, Jacksonville, Fla.; "A Collector's Guide to Personal Computers and Pocket Calculators," published by Krause Publications in Iola, Wis. AL SCHABEN / Los Angeles Times

28 years, 4 months

C64 CP/M carts (was: Re: Yet another weekend haul story)

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 05:10 PM 6/19/97 BST, you wrote: >I really don't see the interest in emulators if the real hardware still >exists. I'd much rather have the real thing, and have all the fun of >maintaining it, than have a piece of software (probably without source) >running on a PC that I can't get spare chips for. Perhaps it's because I'm >a hardware hacker, but emulators seem to lack so much compared to the >phyusical machine. Perhaps it's because you have a bigger apartment? I know a lot of folks running ST emulators on PC's because they wanted both, but didn't have the room... "lack so much compared to the physical machine..." yeah, 2nd ps, 2nd keyboard, 2nd monitor... 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

Victor 9000

by sinasohn＠crl.com

At 07:38 AM 6/19/97 -0400, you wrote: >> standard (IIRC). Was the first computer to use variable speed disk drives Okay, I dug up where I got that idea from (ACM/Computer Museum Computer Bowl, 1994, Round 3, Toss up question #6): "6. The Victor 9000 computer featured an innovative design in its disk drives. What was unique about the disk drives?" and the answer was: "6. Variable speed" So in between reading that, and now, "innovative" transmogrified into "first of its kind". Sorry about that! >That's how it gets 21 sectors on tracks 1 to 17, 20 sectors on tracks 18 >to 24, 18 sectors on tracks 24 to 30, and 17 sectors on tracks 31 to 35. I thought the idea of variable speed drives was to have the same number/sized sectors on each track? Perhaps I goofed there too... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/

28 years, 4 months

Digilog 1500

by fmc＠reanimators.org

Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> writes: > It seems every time I turn around, I find something else I either > haven't seen in a while, or don't know anything about it. In this case, > I picked up a brand new Digilog 1500 some number of years ago. It is > not on the "Big List" so does anyone know anything about this? I seem I wonder if this is the same Digilog that made the Digilog 600 that is sitting in my office at work. It is not a general-purpose computer, but instead a serial line analyzer: one of those things that you plug in between two uncooperative serial communications devices to divine the nature of their uncooperativeness. It's also got a breakout box built in, and you can tell it's portable because it's got a handle (think Osborne 1 for some idea of its arm-lengthening properties, though). And a 3.5" stiffy drive for saving and replaying traces. I last used it in 1995, and have moved it along with me to different offices because no-one else wants it. It works well enough for what it is, but it doesn't understand IP, SLIP or PPP-in-HDLC at all. That is the sort of stuff we need to look at these days and we have better tools for doing that. -Frank McConnell

28 years, 4 months

the wonderful sound of big iron

by clark_geisler＠nortel-nsm.com

dseagrav @ bsdserver.tek-star.net wrote: >I like my real PDP better than the emulated one. The real one has one >feature that E11, and Supnik 2.2, and all the rest can NEVER have that >annoys my family to no end - THE EAR-SPLITTING NOISE! :) It drives them >Nuts, and I can't get enough of it! There's nothing like powering up the >11/23 and hearing that "Bwaaaaa!" as it all spins up - then it becomes a >gentle roar (I don't have a rack or case of it, so it sits out on a >table). Everyone leaves, and I'm free to hack alone. Not to mention the >emotional satisfaction that you own a piece of history - No matter how big >or inefficient the piece! Which was the primary reason I went out of my >way to get one. And the reason I kept my CoCo, and my C64. Has anyone who has their mini collection displayed on a web page put the *sound* of their machines on the net? I especially love the sound of those big fans and hard drives powering up. Whenever I get around to fixing up my 11/730, I'll definitely have to get a recording of it powering up: from the turn of the key, to the ratcheting sound of the TU58 microcode boot tape, to the sound of the LA-120 printing terminal printing the 'enter date and time' prompt. Actually, I don't have the LA-120, but remember the sounds. Clark Geisler Test Engineer Nortel

28 years, 4 months

CLASSICCMP digest 88

by ghjorth＠sn.no

Would somebody please unsubscribe me from this list? Thank you.

28 years, 4 months

Here are the Tandy 600 specs

by zmerch＠northernway.net

Due to massive amounts of caffeine & sleep deprivation, Kai Kaltenbach said: >Tandy 600 > >Introduced: > October 28, 1985 FYI: Mine was built in September, 1985, so I would imagine they would need some time to ramp up production for the introduction. >Storage: > Internal 3.5" 360K floppy > (storage only, not bootable) Not bootable, 'cause it boots from ROM. BTW, SSDD 80 Track, 9SPT. >Ports: > RS-232 and Centronics parallel >Bus: > Proprietary for external floppy or "other peripherals" I'm at work, 600 at home (awaiting new internal nicads...) but unless Tandy or Zenith (OEM) designed a floppy-port-based whatever, the external floppy port is a 1-for-1 pinout of a standard floppy interface... so you can hook up either a 3.5" or 5.25" floppy, provided it's 80 tracks or more. (That means I could hook up my 2" floppy, if I designed an interface cable, as it only has a 22-pin cable (all standard signals, plus power... just need to align the signals.) > One option ROM socket (accessible by removing > Multiplan) that holds BASIC or other ROMs >Power: > AC adapter, and built-in NiCd batteries AC adapter is 8V DC, 1.5A, IIRC. (hafta look when I get home...) >Modem: > Internal 300 baud >Operating System: > Proprietary ROM It's called HH/OS, (Hand-Held Operating System... tho I doubt you'd call the 600 a hand-held!) and it was produced by MicroSoft. >Applications: > Built-in System Manager, Word, Calendar, File, > Telcom and Multiplan >BASIC: > Optional ROM cartridge >Keyboard: > 72-key > >Pricing: > Base system $1599 > BASIC ROM $129 > 96K RAM upgrade $399 Didn't the Basic ROM originally cost $139.95, or did it go up from original? (I'll have to look that one up in my '89 catalog...) Tandy still sells the ROM, and they still want $120 for it!!!!! :-( HTH, "Merch" -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should zmerch(a)northernway.net | *not* be your first career choice.

28 years, 4 months

Apple ][e software?

by BROBSTONA＠wartburg.edu

>You do need the system disks in order to make copies of disks. Maybe. For the longest time, I didn't have a DOS 3.3 System Master for my IIGS. I thought DOS 3.3 was a neat OS because you could make your own bootable disks easily. (You can with ProDOS too, but I didn't know that at the time.) I managed to get DOS 3.3 by finding a game or something that ran on DOS 3.3, halting it with Control-C to get to the Applesoft BASIC prompt, then using the file commands such as INIT to make a new disk. I can't remember if DOS 3.3 has a built-in command that will copy a disk... There's probably a way to do it. -- Andy Brobston brobstona(a)wartburg.edu ***NEW URL BELOW*** http://www.wartburg.edu/people/docs/personalPages/BrobstonA/home.html My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Wartburg College as a whole.

28 years, 4 months

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