Hi all.
Consider Classiccmp Web/FTP open for your archiving pleasure ;).
The process has been more or less tested out and is ready to go.
Submissions of Software, Documentation, ROM code, whatever are all
OK.
What really remains to be done is to work out standards for file
formats. I'll let those of you who are experts on specific platforms
argue that out. I'll follow whatever ensues and firm up some
guidelines.
To submit something you need to download the form DS-form.txt from
the FTP site (140.142.225.27) and fill it out to the best of your
ability. Follow the instructions at the bottom of the form for uploading.
All the form does is provide evidence (if anyone ever complains) that
I'm not just uploading copyrighted material without a care.
Anyway - if you're itching to archive stuff feel free. Your comments
are welcome and also unavoidable ;)
Bill
----------------------------------------------------
Bill Whitson - Classic Computers ListOp
bill(a)booster.u.washinton.edu or bcw(a)u.washington.edu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~bcw
Marvin:
I, too, like to have documentation for my various holdings. I have copies of
the service manuals for the Radio Shack Model I, the Commodore PET 4032, the
VIC-20 and (I think) the VIC 1541 floppy drive. I'd like to get copies of the
schematics for the Altair, the IMSAI, and anything related to the System
23/Datamaster. If you need these, I can have copies made.
As far as ROMs are concerned, maybe we can start a "ROM Archive"
database/repository. Members with EPROM programmers could make copies of
known-good ROMS from various machines at the request of other members.
However, there is a major pitfall: version control. Unless someone has an idea
as to which ROM versions go with each hardware revision, there is a risk of
incompatibility. Although, what's the worst that can happen -- it doesn't
work.
As far as Copyright concerns, I don't think that there are any. First, many
of our target companies are out of business. Second, we are not selling these
chips (and the software contained therein) in a commercial sense. Third,
they're being used as a one-for-one replacement for defective firmware. I view
it like a diskette: I own Norton Utilities with a bad disk 1. My friend also
owns Norton Utilities, and he makes me a copy of his disk 1. Both of us have
valid software licenses because we both bought the program. It's like
preservation of matter.
Rich Cini/WUGNET
- MCPS Windows 95/Networking
- ClubWin Charter Member
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 13:56:15 -0700
From: Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org>
To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
Subject: Computer Documentation
Message-ID: <33B0346F.3FFC(a)rain.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
One of the things *I* like to have available is the documentation,
particularly schematics, on the things that I have. As such, there are
docs and schematics on quite a bit of stuff here but there are also a
lot of holes. I'm not sure how the copyright laws apply to machines
where the company has ceased to exist, but it would be great to be able
to exchange documentation as needed. Things I have machine schematics
on include:
> What worries me is that in a lot of cases, the older machines are more
> useable than the modern Wintel equivalents. This applies both to a new
> user (somebody who just wants to write 2 page letters does _NOT_ (or
> should not) need a 166MHz Pentium with 16Mbytes of RAM), and to 'hackers'
> who want to understand their machines. It's possible for one person to
> complete understand both the hardware and software of most classic
> computers - something that (IMHO) is not possible with a Wintel box.
Same here. In reality I use my s100 crate, ampro, and sb180 to produce
8048/9 and 8051 code as they really are faster and easier to use. Also
being as I have them interconnected it's easier to blast proms in the
s100 crate. Efficient, very! I've had nearly 20 years to refine the code
and tools! I have the advantage of having source code for those tools so
and long latent bugs are easily squashed. This is not doable on PCs.
I still do my banking/checkbook on the kaypro! Faster than the PC overall.
Allison
Yes, it is.
Kai
> ----------
> From: Stefan Walgenbach
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 1997 10:13 AM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: Help identifying ...
>
> Hi,
>
> today I got a special german (?) computer. It is a "SIEMENS PC100".
> But inside
> there is a board labled "R6500 ADVANCED INTERACTIVE MICROCOMPUTER"
> it is made by "ROCKLWELL" with a small (thermo?) printer a one-line
> display. Is this one of the legendary AIM65-Machines?
>
Im in kansas and have a spare TI994a with powersupply but no RF box.
----------
> From: Stefan Walgenbach <walgen(a)do.isst.fhg.de>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: RE: MSX, TRS-80, Colour Genie, etc.
> Date: Thursday, June 26, 1997 8:46 AM
>
>
>
> ----------
> From: Cord Coslor[SMTP:coslor@pscosf.peru.edu]
> Reply To: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 1997 2:50 PM
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
> Subject: MSX, TRS-80, Colour Genie, etc.
>
>
> > I am located in central Nebraska, USA, and am looking for the following
to
> > add to my collection. If you have these systems or might be able to get
> > them for me at a reasonable price, PLEASE e-mail me.
> >
> > MSX computer
> > Colour Genie
> > TI 99/4a
>
> I have a Colour Genie and a Sony HitBit HB75 and also a Ti99/4A
> as I live in germany sending the TI99/4A makes no sense but if you
> are interested in the other items drop me a note. I would like to
> swap them on a "I send them to you and pay on my own and you send
> me some other stuff and pay for the shipping". What do you think?
>
> Here my URL for some other stuff I have to trade:
>
> http://192.102.161.122/~walgen/
>
Are those DOS machines, or are those the BTOS/CTOS type I used to run in
the military?
----------
> From: Sam Ismail <dastar(a)crl.com>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Convergent Technology Computers
> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 1997 1:31 AM
>
> On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Commercial Computing Museum wrote:
>
> > And don't forget the Workslate from Convergent. It was the slickest
laptop
> > around in 1984. Small LCD screen but built in voice digitization and
voice
> > mail system! No disk, only min-cassette.
>
> I see one all the time at my local swap meet but always pass it up. I
> found a program micro-cassette at a thrift shop and decided I'm going to
> pick this thing up next swap meet. Sounds real neat.
>
> Sam
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
> Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer,
Jackass
This is just information. I completed a reference tool that accomplishes
most of this for computers built between 1950 and 1979. It's called Domestic
Commercial Computing Power Between 1950 & 1979 (DCCP). It doesn't include
statistical data, but it does list every make and model of computers built
or sold by North American computer companies. It was self-published, but
you'll find reviews in upcoming issues of the Annals, Analytical Engine,
and the CBI newsletter. It's not available on the web and I have no plans
for that, but I am trying to make a CD version that would include
photographs, commercials/promotional video clips, sales literature, etc.
We could use a similar tool for the years 1980 onwards for commercially
available computers, but also for military computers, industrial control
computers, programmable communication controllers, etc.
Yours in good faith.
Kevin Stumpf
------------------------------------- I'm working on my signature file.
I just started paying attention to garage sales this month, because of
this list and because my traditional computer supply (Salvation Army) has
dried up. I'm very glad I have! Last weekend was my first trip out,
but I only managed to find two sales (one of which was in the paper) but
this weekend the garage sale season seems to have begun in earnest.
There were only two sales listed in the paper for my little town, and one
of these was just up the street and around the bend, so I went there
first. I ended up buying an Apple /// for $2 and carrying it home on my
bicycle! (Not an easy task). I then went back for the cheap green Amdek
monitor for another $2, because I have far more computers than monitors.
I had to ask if there were any disks to go with the machine, and I was
handed a box that I went through until I found one with a label that read
"Apple ///", so I knew the disks matched the computer. There were no
manuals.
After plugging the thing in at home and finding that the beast worked, I
went out again. I must've visited five more places (by following signs on
telephone poles) before I came across the next thing that was mildly
interesting: a Commodore filing cabinet with the chicken-lips logo. Not
exactly related to this group, I suppose, and not the kind of thing I
collect, but interesting nonetheless.
Several stops later I hit the jackpot. Not for me, so much, but for a
friend of mine who is out of school, out of work, bored, and constantly
coming over to my place to play video games on my computers. :) This was
obviously the home of a computer nerd like myself, as there was a complete
Apple ][+ clone system and a complete Commodore 64 system for sale, as
well as a large box full of books.
I picked up four books: "The Explorers Guide to the ZX81", "Timex/Sinclair
Interfacing", Jim Butterfield's "Machine Language for the Commodore 64,
128, and Other Commodore Computers", and the "Commodore 64 Troubleshooting
& Repair Guide".
I also picked up a complete(?) boxed GEOS 2.0 set (which probably
should've stayed with the 64 system, come to think of it) and the owner
parted out the joystick for his Apple ][+ (mine fell apart years ago).
Total cost was $10.
I rode straight home from this place, called my friend, and had lunch. He
showed up with his car, and we went back to that place together to pick up
the C64 system. He got a boxed C64 (old brown one), boxed 1541, 1802
colour monitor, dot matrix printer with Commodore serial ports on it, 1351
mouse in box with docs, 300bps modem in box with docs, a couple of books,
a hand-killing Atari joystick, a boxed copy of Atarisoft's "Track and
Field" with 3-button arcade controller, and datasette, for $35.
Then we went over to the next town, because there was supposed to be some
huge 40-family sale at some apartment complex, but there wasn't anything
interesting there (perhaps everything was gone by then).
I spotted a sign for another garage sale on the next street, so we walked
over there. There I picked up an Intellivision with 6 boxed cartridges
(Sea Battle, Vectron, Sub Hunt, Utopia, Chess, Armor Battle) and a BIZARRE
piece of IBM equipment: an external 5-1/4" floppy drive, model 4869.
I figure someone important must have an opinion on the Commodore 64,
because there was an earthquake (4.5 on the Richter scale) while we were
setting it up to test it. :)
Anyway, not everything was perfect. The Intellivision doesn't work
100%... background graphics are OK, but most of the games have totally
munged sprites. It looks like the sprites are being read out of the wrong
area of memory. Oh, and background graphics ARE screwed up in Sub Hunt as
well... not that it really matters, as all of the docs for that game are
in German for whatever weird reason. :)
There was NO useful software for the Apple ///, only something called
"Apple /// Utilities" that let me make a backup of itself. There was also
an incomplete copy of Pascal 1.0.
Going by the info I gleaned from checking out the system config saved on
the Utilities disk, the system was set up to have two floppy drives and a
hard drive, but I saw no signs of any extra stuff at the garage sale.
There are TWO Apple /// Profile I/O boards in the machine, though, as well
as a parallel printer card.
The power supply of this machine makes a LOT of noise. Is it supposed to?
I found out that there is a monitor built into the machine, too (press
Control-OpenApple-Reset) but apart from dumping memory eight bytes at a
time and the ability to change the values stored in bytes, I can't figure
out if the monitor can do anything. Some of the hardware is very Apple
][ish, though... when romping through memory with the monitor, I of course
stumbled into $C000 and beyond, and the speaker sounded in the correct
place, and the screen switched to high-res mode.
Is this thing just a glorified Apple ][ with an incompatible OS?
I took the machine apart, too, and I found a place for a battery on the
motherboard, with no battery or battery cover in it. Does the /// have a
system clock?
Oh, and it has 256K, and the chips are neat little brown chips with gold
plates on their backs. 4164s. They look just like the ones in my weird
PET expansion board, except that the pins aren't gold.
I heeded the warning sticker and didn't open the power supply. :)
There was a loose screw, and another spall flat piece of metal, roaming
about inside the keyboard. :/
Does anyone know if the Apple ][+ or //e can be made to read/write Apple
/// disks in any manner that would be useful for getting files to it? Or
do I have to get software for it in actual disk form at first, before I
can get the thing to do anything useful?
Can the /// emulate a ][?
Now, on the subject of that weirdo IBM 4869 disk drive... what does this
plug into? The guy I bought it from said it was for an old PC. It has a
37-pin connector on the end of its cable. It's LARGER in two dimensions
than even a Commodore 1541 drive. Its power switch is very high quality.
:) Would this be a 160K drive? I haven't ripped it apart (yet) to see
how many heads the thing has.
Pretty cool day, though. It looks like I'll be doing this quite often in
future. :)
Doug Spence
ds_spenc(a)alcor.concordia.ca
At 04:09 PM 6/24/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Your lovely machines (whichever they are) live *only* because there
>someone (you or another human person) to make it work and appreciate the
>results. They *only* live in your (or somebody else's) mind. And that is
>why their history is important because it's not their history that we
>appreciate but the sentiments, feelings, joy and sadness of the people
>who used them!
What yer saying then, is, that we should collect to remember the impact each
computer had on our individual lives and on the lives of the people around
us, rather than simply because a machine is physically attractive,
technically impressive, or financially successful.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
