I have a pretty good inventory of these types of things, let me know
exactly what you need, and I'll see if I have one. I may not have original
IBM, but I can get you up.
----------
> From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa(a)alph02.triumf.ca>
> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: IBM XT Parts
> Date: Sunday, July 06, 1997 12:45 AM
>
> > Does anyone know of a good second hand supplier of parts for XT's?
> > I need a replacement keyboard, and would prefer to get an original
> > replacement. Would also like to know where to get things like
controller
> > cards, full height IBM 360K floppy drives, and low capacity MFM and RLL
> > harddrives.
>
> Stuff like you want isn't usually carried by the mainstream
> merchandisers. (Though I'd expect you could find XT keyboards
> without too much difficulty; I remember buying some keyboards at Fry's
just
> last year that were switchable between XT and AT via a little slide
> switch on the bottom.) You're best bet is to hit the electronic
> surplus stores in your area and dig through their bins. Here
> in Vancouver, there's a place called "Computer Warehouse" which
> has an excellent supply of XT- and AT-era hardware, including
> floppies, controller cards, and MFM drives. When I lived in LA,
> All Electronics (especially their big store on Oxnard in Van Nuys)
> was a good source of this stuff. University and school surplus
> auctions are also a good place to find this sort of stuff.
> Tell us where you are and someone
> local to you may be able to point you in the right direction.
>
> Tim.
In message <199707031310.GAA04318(a)mx5.u.washington.edu> classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu writes:
> I got more into the guts of the HP-71, which was a 20-bit, nybble-oriented.
> It had a Saturn chip (I think), on which I programmed in FORTH. A FORTH
> chip was talked about for the HP-41 (never heard it called a coco, though)
> but I don't know if it jelled.
'Coconut' was certainly the code-name for the HP41
I also like the HP71B. They're very easy to find in the UK at the moment, and
tend to sell for about \pounds 20.00. Forth/assembler ROMs are a lot rarer,
though, but the built-in Basic is quite nice.
I was very lucky - I managed to obtain all the technical docs on the HP71B,
including a commented source of the ROMs. It's a very interesting machine
internally. The Saturn (which is used in a lot of later HP handhelds,
including the HP48 family) is a strange chip. I'd not call it 20 bit, though.
Addresses (nybble addresses!) are 20 bits, most registers are 64 bits, and the
ALU is (I think) 4 bits. Call it whatever size you like.
>
-tony
>
> From: ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> 4) Education. This includes 'writing programs for fun', understanding h
> computers (hardware and software) works, etc. This is IMHO the main use
> classic computers to the average person these days, and the way we'll a
> more people into the hobby. I've said before that you can learn more ab
> processor operation by spending a couple of days with a minicomputer CP
> schematics for it and a 'scope than by sitting through most lecture cou
> the subject.
This I consider a big item. Some of the classic machines are significant
in their simplicity or usful in that you can point to identifiable
elements (ram, ALU, CONTROL). I frequently use the PDP-8 design for this
as it's very simple and the instruction set is about as minimal as can
be and still be useful. The same can be asid for some of the 8bitters as
well.
Allison
> Robert Kirk Scott wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone got any ifo on a Sanyo lunchbox, model number MBC-675?
> > It brings up a screen that says:
> >
> > 1701
> > 0 Hard Disks Installed
> > ROM Bios v2.33
> > 640kb memory/ CPU clock 4.77MHz
> >
> > Then it just hangs. A boot disk will not work either.
Does the floppy drive LED light up during startup? It should, whether or
not the HDD works, and you should be able to boot from a floppy, even with
a dead HDD. Therefore if a boot disk doesn't work, either your floppy
system is defunct or it's in the motherboard.
An easy fix -- which doesn't always work -- is to disconnect and replace
all cables. It's fairly easy -- pull cables one end at a time *only*, so
you don't forget where they went.
Each device has 2 things going into it...a flat (usually, grey, sometimes
blue) ribbon cable, for the data; and a power cable. Both are keyed, so you
can't put them in backwards.
Trace the data cable from the floppy(ies) back to the controller card, and
pull & replace. Those are usually pins, and *can* be replaced backwards, so
take care. You can swap the controller card into another slot -- any slot
should work. If all slots are filled, exchange two cards.
Chips work their way out of their sockets ("chip creep"); push every
socketed chip back in.
I have boxes of cables, controller cards and drives if you need any; e-mail
me.
If the floppy disk does its thing, are you sure the floppy itself is OK? It
must be low density (you can tell by the hub ring) and have the proper
files; try booting another machine with it. Not all DOS's will work on all
machines -- I've even seen some older machines that won 't boot under DOS
6.x
At 02:04 PM 7/3/97 -0700, you wrote:
>of the fun is sharing it with other TI users. And part of the fun of
>having this old computer is that there are other people bucking the
>trend along with me. In other words, we have a TI computer user
>community, and that is a very hefty reason for sticking with the TI
[...]
>exciting new "modern applications" or attracting new people to adopt a
>simple machine that can perform "common everyday household computing
>tasks" that they DON'T need a Pentium to do.
[...]
>hoping to create a dialog for HOW to do this, particularly strategies to
>attract people to join the community, and to share technology of "modern
>applications" that one community may have successfully achieved and
I am facing a similar situation in the Atari community. I have to admit
that I gave away my 600XL in favor of the ST long before the thought of
collecting computers ever hit me. Similarly, my ST's and Falcons are pretty
much dedicated to studio stuff (and I don't get to "play" with that much
these days) and I use my windows laptop almost exclusively (6-16hrs/day).
Nonetheless, I am president of ABACUS, the Atari Bay Area Computer Users
Society, and probably will continue to be for a long time. Atarians are
somewhat lucky in that there is a reasonably strong vendor market, good user
groups, and wonderful emulation options.
Still, ABACUS has been experiencing a seriously declining membership
recently as people traded in their ST's for PC's. We talked about it, and
decided that what even the PC people didn't want to lose was the "family" we
had built up in the club. There are lots of PC user groups, but none with
the character of ABACUS. (How many clubs have a Land Rover owner, a waffle
collector, and a 76 year old newsletter editor?)
So we changed a bit to meet the new focus of the club members. We now have
a "PC SIG" and demo PC software and hardware at the meetings, along with ST
stuff. We feature general interest (computer) articles in the newsletter
(such as my never-ending part 2<x> of my 3 part series on building web
pages) as well as humour and general commentary. We continue to support the
ST/Falcon folks as we expand to service the new interests of members.
This lets members move on to newer things (graphical web browsers (yes, we
know about STiK/CAB, but it's not netscape), CD-ROM's, etc.) while still
keeping the ST alive.
But, we've not done much about getting new members (either PC or ST). Your
message has gotten me thinking, though. Every now and then I get a call
>from someone who's got an ST for sale, and I have to tell them there's just
not much market for them here. Perhaps we could set something up to get
those machines into the hands of someone who could use them and is otherwise
unable to afford them. (Goodness knows we've got enough kids with no $
around here!)
The biggest hurdle facing the general public in putting older computers to
work is the lack of support. (P.S., Cliff Stoll is an idiot sometimes.)
They can buy a PC at Circuit City and half their neighbors will be able to
set it up for them or answer questions. (Etc.) Not so with machines not
quite so mainstream.
But if user groups made the effort to become known and to support these
computers, they could do a lot of good. Maybe even working with teachers or
youth programs to make the computers available, and the kids *WILL* use
them. I've seen it happen and I know it makes a difference. (My living
room is loaded with older Macs -- until school starts again.)
Anyway, sorry to blather on so long, but I think that "obsolete" computers
are still useable, valuable, and beneficial. So lets talk about turning
people on to them!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 10:36 PM 7/3/97 -0700, you wrote:
>people to follow suit. Most people would rather use the latest and greatest.
A lot of people would rather use the latest and greatest, but a lot more can
only afford a pinto.
>Not likely. There's no money in it. Why spend all your time and energy
>writing non-saleable TI apps when you can be writing million dollar
>peecee games?
But there are already TI (or other) apps out there that make the TI a very
useable machine. From the user side of things, those million dollar peecee
games still cost $39.95, as much as a complete TI and software sometimes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- O-
Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
sinasohn(a)crl.com that none but madmen know."
Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates
San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/
At 10:54 AM 7/4/97 -0700, Uncle Roger wrote:
>But, we've not done much about getting new members (either PC or ST). Your
>message has gotten me thinking, though. Every now and then I get a call
>from someone who's got an ST for sale, and I have to tell them there's just
>not much market for them here. Perhaps we could set something up to get
>those machines into the hands of someone who could use them and is otherwise
>unable to afford them. (Goodness knows we've got enough kids with no $
>around here!)
>
Due to an accident(broken arm) with my then 5 week old daughter, about a
month ago, I spent two days in the local childrens hospital. She is fine
now, but at the time, my two sons ages 6 and 3 were bored to tears. On my
way back to the room, I noticed a room with an old apple, and some other non
computer items. I asked a nurse, and she mentioned that they would love to
have some more computers for the kids to use. There were kids in there that
were really sick, and I'm sure that there are times where they are bored to
tears as well. My point to this whole rant, is that old "obsolete"
computers with some fun software would make some happy kids who are in a
really bad situation. Any spare computers I run across will be making the
trip to the local childrens hospital. I would encourage anyone else who
gets calls and doesn't know what to do with these extras to check out their
local scene. Who knows, these kids might be able to turn out some really
good software.
Isaac Davis | Don't throw away that old computer, check out the
idavis(a)comland.com | Classic Computer Rescue List
indavis(a)juno.com | http://www.comland.com/~idavis/classic/classic.html
I posted a message a day or two ago, and I wanted to thank Sam Ismail for
responding. I am wondering if anyone else might have one of these Laser 50
computers available (Sam wasn't able to part with any :-( ??
Some more information on this computer. It was manufactured by V-Tech
(Video technology Ltd.) in the mid 1980s. It was a small, white, lap-top
size computer. It had a single line LCD display and was marketed as a
childrens education or beginner's computer. You could expand this 1.5k
system by buying cassette recorder, two different printers, and a memory
expansion cartridge.
OH, yes... you could save up to 9 different programs internally on the
computer. Now I also remember it ran on batteries though you could hook up
a DC converter to plug into the wall.
Had a full-feature BASIC programming language built in, including sound
commands... although it didn't have any graphics capabilities (that I know
of) it was a fun little computer.
Anyway, what I am asking is if anyone out there has one of these or knows
where I might be able to find one.... PLEASE let me know. I used to have
one (lost it YEARS ago) and I would like my children to be able to use it
a bit... plus it's kind of a piece of my computing history that I would
like to bring back to my collection!
Thanks a lot, and I hope someone has an inkling obout this machine. P.S.
This isn't an Apple or IBM close.
Best Wishes,
CORD COSLOR
//*=====================================================================++
|| Cord G. Coslor P.O. Box 308 - 1300 3rd St. Apt "M1" -- Peru, NE ||
|| (402) 872- 3272 coslor(a)bobcat.peru.edu 68421-0308 ||
|| Classic computer software and hardware collector ||
|| Autograph collector ||
++=====================================================================*//
> I am facing a similar situation in the Atari community. I have to admit
The HP calculator community (just about the only main-ish-stream one that I am
involved with) has much the same problem. People tend not to join user groups,
alas, any more. They expect to buy pre-packaged solutions, and if they don't
work they expect the manufacturer to fix it. The idea of experimenting, of going
a little further, seems to have died out.
[...]
> had built up in the club. There are lots of PC user groups, but none with
> the character of ABACUS. (How many clubs have a Land Rover owner, a waffle
> collector, and a 76 year old newsletter editor?)
Why on earth do you need to edit a 76 year old newsletter? What's it stored
on - Wheatstone Telegraph Tape? (Sorry, couldn't resist).
And I guess the answer to your question is 'About as many as calculator clubs
with a PERQ fanatic and a classic car enthusiast as members, and a Polish
chairman' :-)
> But, we've not done much about getting new members (either PC or ST). Your
> message has gotten me thinking, though. Every now and then I get a call
> from someone who's got an ST for sale, and I have to tell them there's just
> not much market for them here. Perhaps we could set something up to get
> those machines into the hands of someone who could use them and is otherwise
> unable to afford them. (Goodness knows we've got enough kids with no $
> around here!)
An idea. Sell them the machines cheaply, and then allow them to attend your club
meetings for (say) one year free of charge. Having been involved with many user
clubs, I realise that the membership money does go to good use, and that it
costs a lot of money to produce and print the newsletter. But a lot of people
don't see it that way. It costs nothing extra to have a few extra people at
meetings, and (a) they will get support for their new toy (thus keeping it
running) and (b) may find how useful the club is and will thus join.
> The biggest hurdle facing the general public in putting older computers to
> work is the lack of support. (P.S., Cliff Stoll is an idiot sometimes.)
Absolutely. And for that reason, expecting a new user to start on a classic
computer is (IMHO) totally unrealistic.
> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad
-tony
[...]
> As a broad collector it is difficult to use all of your machines. Just
> collecting a wide range of machines sucks up huge amounts of time. Some
> people are a little more focused and actually collect partly to use
> the machines.
I collect machines for a lot of different reasons :
a) I want to use them (for whatever purpose). The PDP's, PERQ, and some of the
CP/M machines come in here. They have interesting features, and are plain fun
to program (elegant instruction set, nice bus for homebrew hardware, etc).
b) I got them because they're historically important. I may not care for the
Apple ][ hardware design, but it is an extremely important computer
historically. I don't tend to use this class of machine too much.
c) I got them because if I hadn't they'd have been lost for ever. Either "We're
throwing out this <whatever>, do you want it" or buying a machine that would
otherwise have gone as scrap metal. These machines get restored, and (often)
then end up in group (a)!
> Not everything everyone does is to make money. Some of us do things
> because they are fun, help others, kill time, impress women (or men), etc.
Quite a lot of people need something to occupy their mind in their spare time.
Some people do crossword puzzles. I prefer to figure out how some strange
machine really operates. It's probably about as useful :-) (NO FLAMES!).
Seriously, while solving crossword puzzles must improve your vocabulary,
battling through a schematic or ROM source does improve your computer and
electronics knowledge - something that is useful to me.
And it's fun :-)
> --pec
