test-drb November 2020

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

114 participants
70 discussions

VMS on x86-64/ARM/RISC-V? - was Re: Microvax 3100 VMS 7.3 password reset

by camiel.vanderhoeven＠vmssoftware.com

On 11/14/20, 1:49 AM, "cctech on behalf of Adam Thornton via cctech" <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org on behalf of cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote: > I mean obviously the NEXT thing to do is start bugging VSI for ARM support?given that the OS runs on VAX, Alpha, Itanic, and x86_64, how much really crucial and hard-to-port assembly can be left in it??and given the way datacenters are trending, it might not even be a commercially stupid move. I want to run VMS on my phone (or my next Mac). Doesn?t everyone? Hi Adam, Possible architectures beyond x86 we're keeping an eye on are ARM and RISC-V, but they'll need to start doing a lot better in the datacenter before it'll be worth our while. So far, ARM in the datacenter hasn't taken off the way many predicted it would. One thing I'm better at than crystal ball gazing though, is I can give you an idea of how much hard-to-port assembly is left, since I wrote most of the x86 assembly code in it :-) With the port to x86, we made a conscious effort to minimize the amount of code written in assembly; so at this point, it's pretty much limited to code where (a) we can't use the stack, or we need to manipulate the stack pointer in a non-standard way; (b) we need to use a special instruction that we don't have a compiler builtin for (these are mostly cases where an instruction is only used in one place); and (c) code that needs to mix calling standards - i.e. the code shims necessary to interact with the UEFI firmeware. Category (a) is obviously the more interesting one, and that includes things like code that is responsible for switching between VMS' four modes (kernel, executive, supervisor, and user mode), and context switching for the schedulers (OS scheduler, kernel process scheduler, and POSIX threads scheduler). The OS scheduler is a good example of our effort to eliminate assembly code. On VAX, Alpha, and Itanium, the scheduler loop and the idle loop (which performs maintenance tasks such as dirty page zeroing) were written in assembly, and re-written with each port. For x86, I rewrote these in C, using small assembly helper routines only in the critical parts where it couldn't be avoided. In total, there are 30 modules that were written in x86-64 assembly. I'd classify 10 of those are trivial, 16 as average, and 4 as complicated and difficult. The complicated and difficult category contains code responsible for dispatching system services, handling interrupts and exceptions, delivering ASTs. As much design and work was involved in those assembly modules though, a whole lot of x86-specific work was done for the MACRO-32 compiler. MACRO-32 originated as the VAX assembler, and while it is a compiler on other architectures, it is still much like an assembler, and specific translations from the VAX instruction set to the target architecture need to be made. The MACRO-32 compiler talks to the LLVM code generator backend at a lower, more instruction-centric level than the compilers for higher languages, and this work is very x86-64 specific. Given that about 1/3 of the OS is written in MACRO-32, we won't get rid of MACRO-32 code in the OS any time soon. (The other 2/3rds are written in BLISS and C) Also, in the C, Bliss, and MACRO-32 code, lots of conditionalizations are made on architecture. Certain things are done differently on Alpha than they are on Itanium, and on x86 we sometimes do things the way we did them on Alpha, sometimes the way we did them on Itanium, and sometimes we need to come up with an x86-specific way. So, the port to x86 has made a future port to ARM or RISC-V easier; particularly by moving to the LLVM code generator backend, and by figuring out how to run a four-mode OS on a two-mode architecture without sacrificing the benefits of running in four modes; but it has by no means made it trivial. Camiel

3 years, 4 months

DEC PDP-8/E wanted - still looking

by ccth6600＠gmail.com

Tom Uban fully built "Spare Time Gizmos" SBC6120 based computer complete with front-panel and IO board is on its way to me. :-) I am still looking to buy one of the following PDP-8 models: PDP-8/F PDP-8/E PDP-8/L PDP-8/I PDP-8/M Dave, Chris, Paul and Robert I am looking forward to getting more details >from you. I am happy to pay a reasonable price for the right PDP-8, so a seller won't be disappointed. Thanks and best regards Tom Hunter

3 years, 4 months

NEC NEAX IVS2 PBX with NEAXMAIL AD-8 - hard drive clone, issues

by keith＠saracom.com

Hi Liam, As stated in my OP, I was using Windows 10 and USB adapters. I used Rufus, Active Disk Image, and Macrium Reflect programs to copy it an image file and then back to the CF. They are supposed to create exact images of the drives but I think they do not. Of course it could be something with my CF to USB adapter. As far as errors, as stated in my OP, "Since the voicemail card is running headless, I can't see the error messages." The only way I know of a successful boot, is one LED turns green and then I can call in to the VoiceMail card. I am going to try a Linux machine and DD next. > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 16:12:39 +0100 > From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: Re: NEC NEAX IVS2 PBX with NEAXMAIL AD-8 - hard drive clone > issues > Message-ID: > <CAMTenCFACtaGvYBp3cowxhWjestSyBmeyUx=8RXjJ8er3O__-w at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 at 01:32, keith--- via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> I have tried to copy it to an industrial CF >> card but no luck. I have used Rufus, Active Disk Image, and Macrium >> Reflect. > > First question: how did you try to copy it? > > You've not given us anywhere near enough info to try to troubleshoot the issue. > > ? What did you connect it to? > ? How did you connect it? > ? What did you try to copy it onto? > ? Partitioned how? > ? Formatted with what FS, using what tool? > ? What OSes did you try? > ? What errors did you get?

3 years, 4 months

ISO earl TI DSP kits

by aek＠bitsavers.org

CHM doesn't seem to have much early DSP stuff in the collection Does anyone have any of the TMS32010/20/30 or C1x/2x/3x hw/sw kicking around? Other than the docs I've scanned there doesn't seem to be much on the web either.

3 years, 4 months

NEC NEAX IVS2 PBX with NEAXMAIL AD-8 - hard drive clone, issues

by keith＠saracom.com

Hi Chris, I will give Linux and DD a try. I do have an USB to 2.5 inch IDE adapter. thanks Keith On 2020-11-28 13:00, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > The way I would do that is to use a Linux / unix machine and one of the > cheap ebay usb to ide adapters, then use dd to image the whole drive > to a file. That should copy block, including the boot block and > partition table. Use the reverse process to image the file back to > another drive... > > Chris

3 years, 4 months

NEC NEAX IVS2 PBX with NEAXMAIL AD-8 - hard drive clone, issues

by syseng＠gfsys.co.uk

The way I would do that is to use a Linux / unix machine and one of the cheap ebay usb to ide adapters, then use dd to image the whole drive to a file. That should copy block, including the boot block and partition table. Use the reverse process to image the file back to another drive... Chris

3 years, 4 months

OSM Zeus 4 Computer

by g-wright＠att.net

Over the years I have requested help on a Zues 4 I have here but only ran into a dead end street.It would error on boot. Today I booted it up and is came up? for some odd reason..? OSM Computer Corp.? Multi-User System.? 4.01/4.00? 01-19-1983? Muse 04.50 running I still can't find much on The OS. looks a little like MPM? Dir lists what looks like CPM/MPM type files. I do see PIP listed but would like to get a Back UP if possible.? Not sure how log the Drive will Keep working. Any manuals or the like out there on the OS? "muse" Or the computer Here is a Picture of one? http://computersheds.uk/fixed_pages/osm_zeus_4.html Thanks,? Jerry

3 years, 4 months

NEC NEAX IVS2 PBX with NEAXMAIL AD-8 - hard drive clone issues

by keith＠saracom.com

Hi Everyone, Not a classic computer but has a 386 embedded in it for the voice mail. I rescued it from work. We had it rung for 20 years straight. The voice mail (AD-8) is basically a 386 running MS-DOS 6.22. So my concern is the hard drive. It is the original 2.5 inch IDE IBM Travelstar 6 GB drive. It has bee running for 20 years except for a handful of extended power outages. Hence while it is working now, I don't have too much hope for the future. The PBX had its on battery backup and also was always connected to a UPS. I have tried to copy it to an industrial CF card but no luck. I have used Rufus, Active Disk Image, and Macrium Reflect. I don't have my older PCs up and running at the moment, hence I have been trying with a Window's 10 machine and USB adapters to no avail. Since the voicemail card is running headless, I can't see the error messages. There is a serial port but but I have figured out the settings yet. Any suggestions? Do I need to get a DOS machine running to do this? And yes, I really don't need the voicemail working, nor do I need a PBX in my house but why not?

3 years, 4 months

[TUHS] Seeking wisdom from Unix Greybeards

by erc＠pobox.com

You could write something in C using curses/ncurses (which will do the ANSI sequences for you automatically).

3 years, 4 months

[TUHS] Seeking wisdom from Unix Greybeards

by steffen＠sdaoden.eu

Grant Taylor wrote in <9c1595cc-54a1-8af9-0c2d-083cb04dd97c at spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>: |Hi, | |As I find myself starting yet another project that that wants to use |ANSI control sequences for colorization of text, I find myself -- yet |again -- wondering if there is a better way to generate the output from |the code in a way that respects TERMinal capabilites. | |Is there a better / different control sequence that I can ~> should use |for colorizing / stylizing output that will account for the differences |in capabilities between a VT100 and XTerm? | |Can I wrap things that I output so that I don't send color control |sequences to a TERMinal that doesn't support them? color_init() { [ -n "${NOCOLOUR}" ] && return [ -n "${MAILX_CC_TEST_NO_COLOUR}" ] && return # We do not want color for "make test > .LOG"! if (command -v stty && command -v tput) >/dev/null 2>&1 && (<&1 >/dev/null stty -a) 2>/dev/null; then { sgr0=`tput sgr0`; } 2>/dev/null [ $? -eq 0 ] || return { saf1=`tput setaf 1`; } 2>/dev/null [ $? -eq 0 ] || return { saf2=`tput setaf 2`; } 2>/dev/null [ $? -eq 0 ] || return { saf3=`tput setaf 3`; } 2>/dev/null [ $? -eq 0 ] || return { b=`tput bold`; } 2>/dev/null [ $? -eq 0 ] || return COLOR_ERR_ON=${saf1}${b} COLOR_ERR_OFF=${sgr0} COLOR_WARN_ON=${saf3}${b} COLOR_WARN_OFF=${sgr0} COLOR_OK_ON=${saf2} COLOR_OK_OFF=${sgr0} unset saf1 saf2 saf3 b fi } Is what i use for a make system. --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

3 years, 4 months

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test-drb November 2020