test-drb November 2017

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

126 participants
149 discussions

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Hi all -- I mentioned a few weeks back that I picked up an HP 9836CU workstation.? The "U" variant differs from the normal 9836 in that it contains an upgraded CPU board that allows it to run early versions of HP-UX.? (The "C" indicates that this machine has a color display, which is also cool but not what I want to talk about here today.) Information on the Internet varies about what microprocessor the 9836U actually contains -- some sources say it's a 12Mhz 68010, some say it's a 12Mhz 68000.? I found some internal HP marketing text that corroborates the straight-68000 story.? I'd link it here, but hpmuseum.net appears to be having technical issues at the moment. My 9836CU has the 12Mhz 68000 (HP internal part number 1820-3288) fitted in a socket on an 09836-66511 board (with the expected 16K SRAM cache and MMU logic) and the processor is identified at power-up as a 68000. Just for fun, I swapped the processor with a PGA 68010 and it powers up and runs just fine, and identifies the processor as a 68010.? (Still won't boot the copy of HP-UX 5.0 on the hpmuseum site, though...) I'm curious if other people out there with 9836U's can confirm whether their machine has a 68000 or a 68010 in it, I'd just like to settle the internet discrepancy once and for all :). - Josh

7 years, 1 month

Playing with HP2640B

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

is there a dif between 40 a and 40 b with the firmware/loader/etc? Ed# In a message dated 11/15/2017 12:48:24 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: I have been working on a HP 2640B terminal. It was mostly about fixing the "screen mold" problem and cleaning up the liquids that had been seeping out >from the screen down into the bottom. The small coaxial wire that connects the 4.9152 MHz clock signal form the power supply (never seen a crystal controlled SMPSU before!) to the backplane was broken off, but after fixing that the terminal worked fine. Just needed some adjustment to the brightness. With the correct terminfo installed it worked quite well as a serial terminal to a Linux box. Then I tried the short 8008 programs that Christian Corti pointed to http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/dev_en/hp2644/diag.html and ftp://computermuseum.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/hp/hp2644 I tried both a couple of times. The terminal enter the LOADER mode but just hangs completely at the end. I tried different baudrates but no difference. The selftest STATUS line tell me 40<802 which should indicate that there are 4k memory in the terminal. However there should be 5k since there is one 4k board and one combined control store and 1 k RAM board. Maybe there is a fault in the 1k SRAM? The terminal doesn't complain though. Regardless, the programs listed either starts at adress 30000 or 36000 which should then be within the available space. The question is, should these program work for the HP2640B as well? It has a 8008 but my guess is that the firmware is different from the 2644. What is the joint experience regarding this? Has anyone ran these small programs above on a HP2640B? The HP 2640B firmware consists of four EA 4900 ROM chips which annoyingly are not anything like normal EPROMs. So dumping will need special considerations. Has anyone dumped the HP 2640B firmware already? I didn't find it on bitsavers. /Mattis

7 years, 1 month

Details about IBM's early 'scientific' computers

by blstuart＠bellsouth.net

On Wed, 11/15/17, Jon Elson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > PDP-5 and LINC certainly fit that requirement. Funny the LINC should come up tonight. Earlier this evening I went to a talk given by Mary Allen Wilkes who was the developer of the system software for the LINC. She had one in her parents' house around the 1965 timeframe. Here's a pic of her with that machine. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Mary_Allen_Wilkes_-_LIN… Hard not to call the LINC "personal" in that context. BLS

7 years, 1 month

Cases (display) for beloved ISA cards?

by ethan＠757.org

Anyone have suggestions on a nice solid plastic case that could hold up to 13" ISA card? Something that isn't terribly larger than the card, but has room for anti static foam cutout for the card, and is clear at least on the top? So far the closest thing I can find would be cases from the jewelery world, but wonder if there is something better. -- : Ethan O'Toole

7 years, 1 month

WTB: HP-85 16k RAM Module and HPIB Floppy Drive

by COURYHOUSE＠aol.com

PRM-85 ? cost? If I end up getting fascinated with the *% I may want to get one too.. First, I need to get it out and open and see what is all with it.. In a message dated 11/15/2017 5:45:42 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at classiccmp.org writes: It'd be interesting to find out how well that PRM-85 works. I've laid out a board for a rough equivalent but I haven't fabbed it out. It may be cheaper for me to buy that instead. I've also got a 9122C but I don't have the mass storage ROM so I can't use it with my 85. Right now I'm using it with my 9000 series 300. On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk < cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > On Nov 14, 2017, at 20:11, Ed Sharpe via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > > wondervifcthec9122 drives,will work on 85? > > > > I think I can guess what you meant to say there... :) > > I?ve ordered a PRM-85 (a modern reprogrammable ROM drawer replacement) > which includes the HP-85B version of the Mass Storage ROM, and the Extended > Mass Storage ROM. Based on what I have read, I think that should let my A > model use the newer 9122C drive, and other drives using either the Amigo or > SS-80 protocols. > > I?d like to get the 9122C mostly because I have a much easier time finding > 1.44M media than the older double density media. eBay and I don?t talk, so > that limits my options a bit. If I had easy access to lots of 3.5? DD > media, then I would consider getting one of the more plentiful (?) other > 3.5? HPIB floppy drives. >

7 years, 1 month

DEC Keyboards with sticky keys

by dj.taylor4＠comcast.net

I have a couple of LK401 keyboards and they generate a 'keyboard error - 4' error on power up test when attached to a VT420.? The problem seems to be one or more keys that are 'stuck on'. When the keyboard is turned upside down and shaken I can get the self test to pass. Is it possible to open the keyboards and repair this type of problem? I also have LK411 keyboards that have a PS/2 type of connector, is there an adapter to let me use these keyboards instead of the LK401s?? Are the signals the same, only the connectors being different? Doug

7 years, 1 month

"Personal" Computers (Was: Details about IBM's early 'scientific' computers)

by rickb＠bensene.com

I wrote: >> While the definition of the term "personal computer" varies depending >> on who is using the term, these machines, and others like them, were >> designed to be used at a much more personal level than the large-scale >> mainframe machines housed in the glass-walled rooms where only "special" people were allowed >> anywhere near them. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To which, Rich A. replied: >This, like "Multics never got out of the lab", is a bogo-meme. (Thanks, Neil!) > People did not *need* to get near the mainframes in order to do their jobs, unlike the jobs for which the small systems > (and you forgot the PDP-11 in your list) were created. Most programming on mainframes was special purpose, batch oriented, data >processing connected to accounting systems (GL/AP/AR/PR), and a lot of the rest was high intensity engineering (where at this level >even physics is engineering) which needed lots of data handling for short runs. Yeah...I can agree with that. But, part of the talk was about getting "up close" with the computer, at a personal level - hands-on. The glass-walled room machines weren't that way, and thus weren't considered "personal computers", for just the reason you mentioned -- the work typically done on them was of a different class of work that didn't require any kind of hands-on activity with the machine (except for the operators, who loaded up the jobs, managed the tapes, and gathered the printouts). The discussion had gone from talk about the IBM 709/709X computers, which were more "glass room" type machines, to discussion about personal computers. I suffered some angst over the discussion of machines like Apple IIs or even Altair 8800's as the first personal computers, when in fact, the general term applied to computers that came long before these machines. Perhaps the glass-room meme isn't so much bogus, as it is a sign of the cultural times. In those days, the big machines were very expensive, and required a lot of support -- that meant special power, air conditioning, raised floors, and highly-trained people. The "management" of these big machine installations had a lot at stake...and as such, they were very protective of their machines, which is most of the reason they were encased in glass (they needed to be glass to be able to show them off without letting people in...in the days, big computer installations were class icons). It wasn't really so much that the work that the consumers (I wouldn't use the word "users" to describe them, because they were never really "using" the machine) of the results of the machines didn't need to have access to the machines...it was more because the management only wanted those who had all the necessary training and knowledge operating the machines to assure the maximum amount of productivity for their multi-million dollar investments to gain the best return on that investment, as well as safety for these "delicate" machines. As for the PDP-11, it was indeed a significant omission. Honestly, I ran out of time. I missed the PB 250, which certainly should have been on the list, and the PDP-11...and I'm sure that there are quite a number of other machines that were missed. Compiling a full list of this class of machines, even during this somewhat limited time period, would be a daunting process. There were many companies that popped up in the 1960s, along with those from established computer makers, that marketed small computers that were generally intended to be used on a single-user basis, by individuals. Examples off the top of my head are Computer Automation (PDC-808), Smith Corona/Marchant SCM 7816, 3M (yes, the adhesive people) 2018, Control Data 160/160-A, Digital Equipment PDP-1, HP 2100-series, Data Acquisition Corp. DAC-512.....it could go on and on. I was writing my message as I was getting ready to head off to work, and had to stop before I ended up being late. -Rick --- Rick Bensene The Old Calculator Museum http://oldcalculatormuseum.com

7 years, 1 month

IBM 360 front panel on ebay

by curiousmarc3＠gmail.com

The ebay seller of this IBM 360/40 front panel asked me if I could put a link on the list. So here it is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-360-model-40-mainframe-CPU-Operator-panel/1527… Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with the seller other than he has contacted me after seeing one of my own videos about a 360/50 front panel. Marc

7 years, 1 month

Bringing up the Sprite OS (Berkeley)

by classiccmp＠crash.com

I'm not sure where one might normally expect to discuss research operating systems from the 1980s and 90s, but since it ran on Sun-2 through Sun-4 and DECstations, I'll start here. I have the Sprite disk image for the DECstation 5000/200 running under GXemul (see https://github.com/OSPreservProject/sprite), but this is a minimal ~80MB image. I'm wondering if anybody has already gone through the exercise of figuring out how to create a new disk image large enough to, for example, load the source tree and see how far it is from compiling. My calendar is full until mid-December, so I won't be taking a swing at this in the next few weeks. But I had a moment and thought I'd start asking if anybody's been down this road in the past decade or two. Thanks, --S.

7 years, 1 month

Details about IBM's early 'scientific' computers

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

Please, everyone, I do actually know of BitSavers; you don't need to point me at it. When I said: >> I could look at the engineering manuals, but I was hoping for something >> in between them and Bashe et al. I assumed everyone would understand that by "engineering manuals", I was meaning the kind of things one finds in BitSavers. Noel

7 years, 1 month

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test-drb November 2017