> From: Johnny Billquist
> Early DMA controllers were all multiple cards, so having their own
> dedicated backplanes were a pretty sane idea.
Well, there was also that large intermediate generation which still had their
own backplanes, but they were 'system unit' (for lack of a defined term for
this form factor) backplanes (e.g. RK11-D, RH11, etc), which fit into e.g. a
BA11-K, along with other 'generic' UNIBUS backplanes (i.e. DD11-C, etc).
That first generation I spoke of (the one with backplanes that mounted
directly in H960's) are marked by the use of lots of small Flip Chip cards,
not the larger quad/hex boards that one finds in the 'second generation'
(above). I guess the larger board versions were cheaper to manufacture, which
is why they got rid of the first generation ones in favour of the second
generation (which were often functionally identical to the first-generation
ones they replaced, e.g. RK11-C and -D).
Those first-generation one used very similar construction technique to the
KA10 generation of machines, which also used that size Flip Chip (although a
different series, mostly with individual transistors), and heavier wire on the
bacplanes. What did KI10's use, does anyone know? I have this bit set that
they used roughly the same kind of Flip Chips as the 'first generation' PDP-11
DMA devices, but I've never seen a KI in person.
Noel
As a result of remodeling my house, I now have less space for the
collection and need to thin it out a bit. The following items are
free for pick-up in the Los Angeles area. Priority will be given to
the first person who will take everything. Almost all of these are
"portables" so it isn't that much volume. Some work; some don't and
are projects. The Seequa (dual DOS-CP/M unit) and Access Matrix
"Actrix" could be very cool pieces if brought into working condition.
1. Seequa Chameleon Plus: Powers up; no video - otherwise in
nice condition
2. Corona ATP: Works, boots off floppy to MS-DOS 2.11 disc
(included) - nice condition
3. Sanyo MBC-775: Powers up, no video; though external RCA video
works - shows boot error in ROM - nice condition
4. Sanyo MBC-675: Works - missing one floppy drive - boots off
floppy (not included) to MS-DOS 2.11, broken foot - rough condition
5. Access Matrix - Actrix: Powers up, video good, floppy drive B:
cycles and won't boot (comes with case, manual and software)
6. Sony SMC-70G Genlocker: Works (tested RCA out), asks for
system disk
7. NEC PowerMate Portable SX: powers up, no video, possible HDD
crash based on screeching noise
8. Kaypro II: Lights flash on floppy drives, no video, constant
beeping noise in sync with flashing floppy drive lights
9. Kaypro 2X: Works - boots to screen asking for disk (seem to
recall that one of the floppy drives may need realignment)
Please PM me if you are interested.
> From: Ethan Dicks
> That looks like a great haul.
We're talking about the guy on eBay whom I posted a pointer to a couple of
days back, the one with large lots of QBUS CPUs, memory, DLV11s, etc?
> I hope they are working cards.
All the ones I've gotten from the guy above which I was able to test (couldn't
test, e.g. the RK05 cards 'cause I don't have a working RK05 yet) were OK -
QBUS memory, 11/23's, etc.
Noel
was it a 160 or a 160A?
Ed#
In a message dated 9/6/2015 9:13:38 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
coryheisterkamp at gmail.com writes:
I'd be curious, too. I was *this close* to throwing in a bid seeing as
this turned up within driving distance...until I was politely reminded that I
have a few other projects around here. The coffee can of 'spare parts' also
gave me pause. -C
On Sep 5, 2015, at 9:08 PM, Jay Jaeger wrote:
> On 9/5/2015 7:10 PM, william degnan wrote:
>> Anyone here get the Control Data 160 (Ebay 252070822992)? I must admit
>> time, money, and space aside I would love to have had this one! (I have
>> the manuals at least)
>>
>
> I would not be terribly surprised if that auction result flushed out one
> or two more. Ya never know.
>
> JRJ
>
> From: Holm Tiffe
> Sorry, I couldn't find a mailing about Schematics for the KDJ11-AA,
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2015-September/011849.html
> I've read that you got some documentation and want to scan it, 600dpi
> with some TIFF compression or so.. that's all.
Well, now I'm really confused, because AFAIK the message that talked about
the 600dpi and TIFF is the same one that thas the URL for the FMPS. So I
don't understand how you don't have them. Oh well.
> No, I'm not reading every singe mailing from that list.
I don't either - there's often too much. But I do read everything that looks
like it could be DEC-related, and most of the other stuff too (it's kind of
fun to read about the really old machines, etc).
Noel
> we now have the 11/73 prints, which I will be scanning Real Soon Now.
OK, done:
http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/MP01890_KDJ11-A_Jan84.pdf
Can the appropriate people please download this to all the right places
(e.g. repositories)?
Don't be misled by the svelte 1.5MB size; they were scanned at 600dpi, and
there is a _ton_ of resolution in there (you can go way past the '100%'
setting on Adobe Reader without getting pixellation).
The originals were in really rough shape (torn, written on, etc), but I think
the results are fully legible. I looked quickly, and found a couple of issues,
where there was writing which obscured things on the scans, and fixed the
images manually to show what's on the original prints. However, I didn't have
the energy to look at every detail of every page, so if something comes up
un-readable, let me know, and I'll issue a fixed set.
(There are some places which aren't legible, e.g. lower right pins of E9 on
K3, but the original prints aren't legible there either, so there's nothing I
can do about that; it's possible to work out what the pin numbers are,
though.)
And a _HUGE_ 'Thank You' to Paul Anderson for lending me the print set so I
could scan them for everyone!
> That does leave us needing the 11/83/84 CPU prints, so if anyone has a
> set...
Can I repeat my appeal for these? They are for the KDJ11-B (M8190). With this
board being so recent, surely someone must have a set? I'd be happy to do the
work of scanning them, if someone has originals but isn't up to the scanning
part.
Noel
So I have one of these Mostek memory cards, and it was non-functional, and a
Google didn't reveal _anything_ online about them.
The fault was a couple of picked bits, so I started off tracing the signal
paths for those bits from the bus fingers, to the transceivers, to an octal
latch, etc - and then it dawned on me that this card has two banks (i.e. it
has a 9x4 array of xx64 64Kx1 chips; i.e. to provide 16 bits wide plus byte
parity, there are two groups of 18 chips), and one bank was picking, and the
other was not. So that meant that data paths were all OK, it was a simple
matter of finding some bad memory chips.
(It turns out that diagnostic heuristic is quite useful, since many PDP-11
semiconductor memory cards have two banks of xxKx1 chips; so if you have
dropped/picked bits, look to see if both banks have the same fault. If 'no',
it's pretty much guaranteed to be a memory chip, and it should be easy to
find. I just fixed for someone an M8044 with this failure mode, without doing
any hardware debugging at all; the symptoms, and the prints, were all I
needed.)
There was nothing to indicate which banks/bits were where on the MK8022, but
by pulling memory chips (luckily, they were socketed, so this was pretty
painless), I managed to work it out (unlike many memory cards, it's not
semi-random). For reference for others, here it is:
Low bank:
01 - H1
...
0200 - H8
0400 - E1
...
0100000 - E8
High bank:
01 - F1
...
0200 - F8
0400 - D1
...
0100000 - D8
D-H9 seem to be parity.
If anyone has one of these cards, and it's busted and they're not up to
dealing with it, let me know. Depending on the failure mode, I _may_ be
able to help (no documentation of any kind, after all...)
Noel
Reading docs on DEC TU10 for pdp 11 one makes a serial connection, right?
Not sure because I found little about baud, etc.
I did not see any definitive controller card for UNIBUS pdp 11. Maybe I am
missing something..can anyone share experiences?
Bill Degnan
twitter: billdeg
vintagecomputer.net
Looks like I spoke too soon. The dreaded RL8A failure has returned!
I made a new OS/8 RL02 pack on vtserver (took the expected three hours at
9600 baud console speed). Booted up the 8/A, so far so good.
But then Drive 0 faulted and OS/8 crashed... restarted and it crashed a few
seconds later again.
I flexed the middle of the RL8A upwards and the system worked. For a while.
Then it crashed and wouldn't reboot.
Back to where I was earlier in the week - won't even allow SerialDisk to
boot if the RL8A is in the backplane. OS/8 on the SerialDisk virtual RK05
works flawlessly if the card is removed.
Obviously there is still an intermittent which has come back. Maybe there's
a tiny thread of something conductive stuck under one of the IC's and I
managed to temporarily clear it as I described.
Anyhow I am resuming my search for a good RL8A. I have wasted enough
man-hours on this flaky board.
thanks
Charles
> From william degnan
> I was looking to see if references to the tm11 were "module/card" or
> backplane interface.
I think pretty much all that earliest generation of UNIBUS interfaces were
stand-alone backplanes (i.e. 19" wide things that went in an H960 in a fixed
location, and were filled with the small Flip Chip modules); the RK11-C,
RP11-C, RF11, and TC11 all are.
> I surprisingly found little commentary or threads about the TU10 /
> TM11, other than DEC docs. I guess these are not super common
Yeah, I think they were the first PDP-11 tape drives - not as rare as RF11's
now, but pretty rare.
Noel
