test-drb October 2014

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

42 participants
37 discussions

Reading contents of PALS like the 16L8 or 16R8

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

The early 20/24 pin PALs had a security fuse to prevent unauthorized duplication. I worked at Data I/O, the device programmer company, in the 1980s and figured out a way to determine the contents. I did a few experiments to prove the concept but never created a complete package. PAL programmers like the Data I/O LogicPak could apply test vectors to a PAL and check the output state of each pin. For a purely combinatorial device like a PAL16H8 you just need to apply all possible inputs and read the outputs. This will create a large truth table in inputs and outputs that can be minimized with PLD software like ABEL. Registered devices like PAL 16R8 require the bank of registers to cycle through all starting points with all inputs. Most of these devices supported pre-load, the programmer could force the internal registers to a known state. You could force a desired register state and inputs then apply the clock. These early registered PALs had a tri-state output buffer controlled by a dedicated pin so you could always read the register output. Later parts had the output buffer controlled by an internal logic function. I am sure that by now someone has developed a high speed tester that applies every combination of inputs then minimized the output to generate a programming file. I have copies of the early DOS based ABEL software; it runs in a DOS box on Windows 98. I believe that Xilinx now owns the copyright. I have donated copies of the software and source code to the Computer History Museum. Michael Holley

10 years, 2 months

What quad QBUS boards work in a Q/CD backplane?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: David Riley > Looking at the PMI pins in the KDJ11-B manual, it looks like there are > signal lines on the D2 pins for the memory. That's a +12v pin for Qbus. What I just cannot fathom is why they used D2! PMI is only like 14 signals or so (plus normal QBUS signals like BDALxx), and there are heck of a lot more than 14 available pins on the CD that _do not_ conflict with the normal QBUS power, etc. (You lose xS1 and xB2, but the rest all look OK, although if you want to stay away from +5 you lose a few more.) Someone must have a bad case of brain fade, is all I can think.... But I'm still pretty incredulous that nobody else caught it before it was too late. Maybe it was deliberate - they hoped to increase sales through people burning boards out, plugging them into the wrong backplanes? (Tongue 3/4 in cheek... :-) Noel

10 years, 2 months

Customs - Was: Re: 9U VME Sun stuff FTGH

by ian.primus.ccmp＠gmail.com

Yeah - I've heard a couple of stories myself, but personally have never had a problem with customs. I've come back from Canada a couple of times with hardware (rescued a Burroughs B80 one time even - now that was a vanload!) and they have never once even opened the side door of the van to get a better look, they just peer in through the driver's window a bit. I have gotten the "What do you want with this junk" bit though. Granted, it's been several years since I have been to Canada, but, I'm not terribly worried. All I can hope is that they do the same, or, when checking, will notice that Sun hardware was made in the US to begin with. -Ian

10 years, 2 months

What quad QBUS boards work in a Q/CD backplane?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: David Riley >> But not all quad cards have removable grant jumpers - e.g. the BDV11 >> doesn't. (Not sure why it even _has_ grant jumpers, given that one >> would usually make it the last card, especially since it has pull-ups >> - but I guess it's in case one doesn't.) > You can install it without the terminators ??? You'd have to desolder the terminator resistor packs (or do etch cuts), no? It doesn't have any jumper/switch to disable them. (The Sigma backplane has terminators in plug-in resistor packs, which can be removed.) > From: Mark J. Blair > Well, it turns out that I haven't added the C-D rows to the table > because I don't have any good documentation about them yet. The CD pinout is given in the 1980 Microcomputer Interfaces Handbook under the H9273-A entry (the H9276-A is the same; I forget where I found that one); here it is: +5 CA2, DA2 Gnd CC2, CT1, DC2, DT1 nCx2 - n+1Cx1 for x = B, D-S, U-V (last two high amperage traces) nDx2 - n+1Dx1 for x = B, D-S, U-V nCA1 - n+1CC1 nDA1 - n+1DC1 nCT2 - n+1DT2 Jumper W2 connects 1CK1 - 1CL1 Jumper W3 connects 1DK1 - 1DL1 The jumpers are for when plugging a quad LSI-11 (the original) in; it needs those, apparently. Noel

10 years, 2 months

Contacting Mr. Mouse

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

(sorry for abusing the list, but due to the very nature of the problem I currently cannot contact Mr. Mouse directly and his directions for this case explicitly call for me to "contact [him] through some other channel".) Hello Mouse, when trying to contact you about the Sun-3/4 stuff you were offering FTGH, I got back the following: > "mouse at rodents-montreal.org": > SMTP error from remote server in greeting: > host: MX-4.rodents-montreal.org: > This relaying host's domain is blocked for spamming me. See > ftp.rodents-montreal.org:/mouse/misc/one-strike.txt for more. Unless you're keeping some sort of whitelist for addresses on otherwise blacklisted servers (but if you did so, I'd think you'd be mentioning that and a way to get on there in the document you're referring to), your approach strikes me as a bit over the top. After all you're blocking accounts (and the people behind them) that never were responsible for any spam you may have got, without even giving a procedure to get through that ban (like including some keyword or a random one-time key in the Subject line). I will be off the 'net until the beginning of next week, but I hope we can work out a solution to that afterwards. So long, Arno

10 years, 2 months

cctalk Digest, Vol 133, Issue 43

by seefriek＠gmail.com

From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > >You would obviously only talk to one device at a time. PC would be at 128.0.0.16 on a >private un-routable interface (which is why it's 128.0.0.x). > 128.0.0.0/24 isn't unroutable. It's allocated to a company called "Jump Management SRL" out of Romania (and it's in the BGP tables). Unroutables are 10/8, 172.16/12 & 192.168/16 (per RFC1918). KJ

10 years, 2 months

KIM Uno Boards available: $10 KIM-1 clone/6502 calculator

by oscar.vermeulen＠hotmail.com

Hi, I just finished my KIM Uno project. It is a handheld KIM-I clone based on a miniature Arduino. Some hard/software extensions make the KIM-1 clone into a pretty effective 6502 programmable calculator, with non-volatile memory to keep code stored. (just to make sure: this is a non-profit hobby project) It costs just $10 in parts. For the next few weeks, I'll send PCBs/kits at cost price to anyone who is interested. The PCB gerbers and firmware will remain on my web site if anyone would like to create the gadget afterwards. The idea was that I like coding in 6502, but I never have much reason to do it. Small calculator-style programs might be the answer... The other idea being I needed a replacement for my real KIM-1, which died sadly. Also, some of the best KIM-1 software I could find is built in to extra KIM-1 ROMs. I had a lot of fun digging them up. So Microchess is there, and some vintage programming tools like Wozniak's 505-byte disassembler, etc. Here is the site: http://obsolescence.wix.com/obsolescence#!kim-uno-summary/c1uuh Regards, Oscar.

10 years, 2 months

Commodore SX-64 new picture tubes for sale 25$ + shipping

by sbothma＠worldonline.co.za

Hello there, Do you anymore of the Commodore SX-64 new picture tubes available? Regards Johann

10 years, 2 months

IBM 3340 needs term card

by h.j.stegeman＠hccnet.nl

Hi, I am looking for a terminator card (2-wide) IBM p/n 5863806 used in the IBM 3340 or 3350. It is normally located in the 01A gate (position A2-A3) of the end of string unit. This card is missing in a IBM 3340 which I want to connect to an IBM System/3 model 15D. Remark: this is not the IBM channel bus/tag terminator card. See: http://www.ibmsystem3.nl/downloads/IBM3340.jpg This IBM 3340 is located at the DDHF near Copenhagen, Denmark: http://datamuseum.dk/foreningen/dansk-datamuseum/ Who can help me ? Some detailed pictures of the IBM components used on this card are also very welcome. Regards Henk

10 years, 2 months

9U VME Sun stuff FTGH

by mouse＠Rodents-Montreal.ORG

Okay, I don't think there's any realistic chance I'm going to want all this old Sun stuff I've been hanging onto; indeed, there's a decent chance I'm never going to want _any_ of it. What chance there is is mostly in case I want to run some VMEbus hardware (for example, I think I have a relatively good VME A->D board somewhere). So I've got a bunch of 9U VME Sun stuff looking for a new home. This is all in Ottawa (Ontario, Canada). I might be convinced to ship, but I would much prefer pickup; I have neither materials to pack this stuff properly nor even the knowledge to tell what materials I would need. I have three 9U VME machines. They worked last time I turned them on, but that was long enough ago that I hesitate to recommend depending on anything being in working condition. (How long? At least a decade, maybe two. They have been stored indoors - in human living quarters, not garages or warehouses or the like - for that time.) I also have some twenty-plus 9U VME boards which are not in cardcages. All part numbers here are ten-finger copies and thus may contain typos. If you suspect I've made a mistake, I can doublecheck. Machine 1: 501-1206 -3/2xx CPU non-Sun RAM (size unknown) empty slot 501-1102 8M RAM with HW patch, component side empty slot 501-1451 32M RAM with HW patch, foil side 501-1045 in 9U-to-6U adapter (internal SCSI) 501-1058 GB graphics buffer [*] 501-1055 GP graphics processor [*] 501-1170 internal SCSI, 501-1236 in 9U-to-6U adapter [*] 501-1116 cg3 framebuffer blank slot cover The three boards marked [*] have the top lever broken off. The two boards marked "HW patch" suffered physical damage to a component; in each case, I soldered in a replacement, which worked as far as I could tell. But they do require that the slot adjacent to them be empty - as configured above, the empty slot between them satisfies this criterion for both boards at once. I haven't inspected those patches to see whether they still look in good shape, but, unless etch runs have torn loose or some such, at worst they should need a little soldering. The "internal SCSI" boards have no connectors on their back panels; they appear to be designed to plug ribbon cables onto for use inside the machine. Machine 2: 501-1206 -3/2xx CPU blank slot cover 501-1102 8M RAM 501-1102 8M RAM blank slot cover 501-1254 32M RAM 501-1217 SCSI, DD-50 back-panel connector blank slot cover empty slot 501-1116 cg3 framebuffer empty slot empty slot Machine 3 is not accessible enough for me to give an inventory of its cardcage; I am convalescing from minor surgery at the moment and am not supposed to do significant physical exertion yet, so inventorying that one will have to wait a week or two, unless I can find help moving the things on top of it. Fuzzy memory says it's a Sun-4/470, but I'm also not sure I didn't empty it out of boards before my last move, so the boards from it could be in the list below. The boards not currently in any cardcages: 501-1164 -3/xxx CPU 501-1217 SCSI, DD-50 back-panel connector 501-1153 AUI Ethernet 501-1134 -3/110 CPU non-Sun RAM, size unknown 501-1153 AUI Ethernet 501-1153 AUI Ethernet non-Sun RAM, size unknown 501-1132 4M RAM 501-1333 32M RAM 501-1333 32M RAM 501-1217 SCSI, DD-50 back-panel connector 501-1217 SCSI, DD-50 back-panel connector 501-1203 16-channel ALM 501-1539 IPI disk interface 501-1381 -4/470 CPU There are also a handful more which need special remark. There are two 501-1584s. This board looks like an AUI Ethernet, but when I look up the 501-1584 number, it is apparently combination SCSI and Ethernet; I don't know whether the SCSI functionality is accessible. There is a board whose tag says it's a 501-1165, but that number appears to be a VME/Multibus adapter; the markings and connectors on the back panel make this out to be an ALM board. There is a non-Sun board from ILLIMITE INC, of Rochester NY; I don't know what it's for, except that its back panel doesn't give any hints, reducing the list of plausible candidates. There are two boards which have lost their plastic tags. I also have two torn-off plastic tags, which likely but not certainly are from those boards; they say 501-1381 and 501-1217. One of the boards is SCSI, a 501-1236 in an adapter to 3U; that is probably the 501-1217. The other is a CPU board. The ROMs are marked 525-1103 through 525-1106; combined with the other plastic tag (501-1381) and a brief look over the board, I think this is probably another -4/470 CPU board. I will be watching both my mailbox and the list for replies, but, given email's unreliability these days, I recommend not counting on it. If you have trouble getting through by email and you care to bother, I should be reachable at +1 613 482 0910. (That number goes through a VoI system I'm the primary geek behind, which puts me in enough control of its behaviour that I don't mind posting it here - it's temporary anyway; I'll take it down in at most a few months.) I also have enough of the small Allen-wrench screws Sun used to hold these boards into their cardcages that I can supply them for any boards that don't have them. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse at rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

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test-drb October 2014