test-drb June 2013

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

216 participants
271 discussions

by wlewisiii＠gmail.com

Thanks for the information all. I didn't expect anyone to have the software but you never know unless you ask :) A few things - the OS & Dev Kit can be found. The torrents & such suggested up thread are only various versions of the OS. They work in QEMU with some fd fiddling. I can't get it to run right in Virtual Box :( which I'd far prefer to use. There are lots of blog posts and Youtube videos on how to get the OS running in emulation. My next step in the emulated OS is to get the y2k patches installed as well as the various ported free software onto the emulated drive for installation. Lacking a TCP/IP stack probably means I'll have to somehow do it by serial or by (somehow) creating diskette images with various software on them. Perhaps with real floppy then dd ing it and mounting the resulting image? The other unbundled kits are what is missing. I'd really like the text processing, streams & TCP/IP kits but they & their licenses seem to have vanished into the ether. The only copies of Word and FoxPro that I've found I can not get to work correctly in Xenix386. They may or may not work correctly in a later (Unix, Open Desktop or Open Server) version. One other "just in case" - anyone got a copy of SCO Open Desktop 1.1? That was about the same time as Xenix386, had X11 & TCP/IP built in and Ingres DB bundled. I'll keep plugging away at it in case I get lucky :) William -- Live like you will never die, love like you've never been hurt, dance like no-one is watching. Alex White

11 years, 6 months

Devs should be testing on slow machines - Re: What, versions of Linux (or UNIX) are good on old 486 boxes?

by jonas＠otter.se

On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 03:22:55 +0100, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote: > On 20 June 2013 12:16, Alexander Schreiber <als at thangorodrim.de> wrote: >> >On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 02:23:44AM +0100, Liam Proven wrote: >>> >>On 15 June 2013 00:14, Peter Corlett<abuse at cabal.org.uk> wrote: >>>> >> >BeOS was sort of a single user Unix: it was sufficiently POSIXy for me to fire >>>> >> >up a shell prompt and feel at home, although it did not support multiple users >>>> >> >at all. >>> >> >>> >>For my money -- as someone whose hobby is OSes, basically, and who has >>> >>played with as many as I can lay hands upon for about 30y now -- BeOS >>> >>is the most important OS for home/personal computers in the last few >>> >>decades. >>> >> >>> >>Which is, naturally, why it's obscure, dead & forgotten. >>> >> >>> >>It had many of the best aspects of xNix -- it was POSIX-like, had a >>> >>familiar shell, etc. -- but was free of all the decades of cruft >>> >>around Unix. I mean, Mac OS X is a gorgeous OS, but it's huge, vastly >>> >>complex, not very flexible or customisable, and it's only quick >>> >>because it runs on massively powerful hardware. >>> >> >>> >>I don't need a network-transparent GUI. I'm sure it's a great thing, >>> >>but in some 20y of using systems with X.11 available, I've/never/ >>> >>needed that. >> > >> >I use that regularly. It is an incredibly useful detail of the way the >> >X Window system is designed. So you can, e.g. run the process on the >> >machine where the big pile of data lives and have it displayed on your >> >workstation. Or run the process on the workstation inside the corporate >> >security perimeter, but have the display on your laptop in the hotel, >> >with the connection piped back through ssh. > I am sure it is very useful /if you need it./ However, I submit that > the majority of personal computer users do not need it. > > Consider: the most popular desktop Unix by an order of magnitude (or > 2) is Mac OS X. It's outsold all other commercial Unix variants put > together. > > No X.11 and no networkable GUI. > > Consider: the most popular Linux by a similar proportion, with many > hundreds of millions of users is Android. Its GUI is based on OpenGL > on the framebuffer, with no networkable GUI. > > In fact it is fair to say that/only/ deskop/portable/handheld Unix > variants that*don't* have X.11 have been commercial successes. > >>> >>I don't need a multiuser PC. It's mine. I'm the only user. I only need >>> >>multiuser servers. It's great but it's baggage. Security, sure, some, >>> >>but not a minicomputer/server OS on my desktop. >> > >> >Again, very useful: allows separating access privileges. Quite a bit >> >of the stuff even on my workstation needs neither full system access >> >(i.e. root) nor access to my user data. > Conceded, yes. But Windows shows that this is possible on a > single-user OS with no multiuser support: it's one user at a time, per > machine. Yes, there are hacks to make it multiuser -- Terminal Server, > Winframe, Citrix, and desktop solutions such as Softxpand or BeTwin. > > But as standard, it isn't. No vconsoles, no ssh or telnet, nothing. > >>> >>I want a solid, multitasking, multithreading OS, running on lots of >>> >>cores, delivering a fast, responsive experience. I want rich media. I >>> >>want productivity apps, but Linux and C21 FOSS delivers all I want and >>> >>more, really. I don't need anything proprietary. I want flexible >>> >>networking and plug-and-play hardware. I don't need a huge fat >>> >>dual-slot GPU -- I just want 2 or 3 smallish cheap monitors. >>> >> >>> >>Linux is a great server OS, but it's not a great desktop. Never was. >>> >>It's better than it used to be but it's still not great. It's good >>> >>enough, no more. >> > >> >Works for and gives me all I need. But then my idea of a "graphical desktop >> >environment" has been "a couple browser windows and 20-50 xterms" for the >> >last 15+ years;-) >> > >> >As usual: different people, different use cases and needs;-) > Absolutely. But trying to be all things to all men leads to bloat. > > To invoke the Pareto Principle, the way to slim, elegant S/W is to > work out the 20% of the features that are all that 80% of users need. > The problem with most of this is that what you either do not realise, or choose to ignore, is that there is a *very big* set of applications which have *nothing whatsoever* to do with desktop users or mobile phones - industrial control systems, traffic control systems, military systems, all sorts of applications. These non-desktop, non-mobile phone systems have completely different requirements, and for many of them the facilities that X-Windows provides are extremely useful, if not essential. This isn't the first time you produce strawman arguments like this one. I don't know why you keep doing it, surely it must be obvious from reading the list that most people here are not concerned with what the average consumer needs or wants, or with what is a commercial success in the consumer arena. What becomes a "commercial success" according to your definition (sold to millions of average consumers) depends very little on technical merit and very much on marketing, trends, perceived coolness, what celebrities do, and so on. There is a huge area of applications outside of that world where technical merit is actually important. /Jonas

11 years, 6 months

USB (Re: Next completely OT topic:)

by tsw-cc＠johana.com

On 6/15/2013 10:37 PM, Ben wrote: > On 6/15/2013 8:48 PM, Cory Smelosky wrote: > > > That bothers me too...I'm accumulating adapters and gender > changers > > though. ;) > > > USB has RS232 adapters, now you can have the best of both worlds. > 2 GHZ download for your 110 baud TTY. > >> -tony > Ben. Only one problem there, most (if not all) EIA-232 adapters for USB won't go below 300 Baud. It is a problem when trying to get the old ASR33 to type things out! Of course you need to also add two stop bits, but that is pretty easy (as he notes the only place two stop bits were used was for the 33/35 teletypes).

11 years, 6 months

For Sale - qty. 400 eMacs and iMacs - $7 each in North Carolina

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

I received this interesting message - I have no affiliation: ______________________________________ For sale: I have 378 old eMacs, all in one with mice, keyboards & power cords, most colors. I Have 399 old iMacs, all in one with mice, keyboards ("chicklet" style) & power cords. $7 ea., min order= 50 units (2 pallets) & you pay truck freight. Email me msmith at moxproject.com ______________________________________

11 years, 6 months

cctalk Digest, Vol 118, Issue 69

by jonas＠otter.se

On Fri, 21 Jun 2013 15:04:39 +0100, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote: > And as I usually say -- and as usually gets completely ignored -- I am > sure that the older, less-populist ways of doing things are not going > to instantly go away. They will still be available, especially in FOSS > systems, and as long as people want them and use them and are willing > to either keep them in active maintenance and development, or are > willing to pay someone to do so, then long may they persist. Yes, you have said so. > > For me, what is interesting is the direction that the mainstream of > the computer industry is going. It moves like an am?ba: it extends > exploratory pseudopods in multiple directions at once, and when one of > them finds an advantage -- or if you like, when it finds a toe-hold in > some niche -- then the rest of the organism goes that way. Yes, but you are equating the "mainstream of the computer industry" with desktop machines, phones and Web servers, more or less. What I mean is that those parts are a large portion of the computer industry, but not necessarily the "mainstream". For very many applications of computers, they are completely irrelevant. It is like saying that Hollywood is the mainstream of the movie industry. True if you restrict the world to the US and Europe, but if you look at the world as a whole, it is only a part of the movie industry. /Jonas

11 years, 6 months

A quick question re mixing old & new monitor connections

by lproven＠gmail.com

Can anyone think of a cheap, simple way to connect a DVI-only PC to an old Apple 17" CRT with only an Apple DA-15 connector? I have just been given a neat small-form-factor Dell P4 3GHz PC. I would like to give it to my mother. Her current computer is an old beige G3 Mac with a 17" Apple display. I will probably have to fly to visit her, and I can't afford to buy her a new screen. So, if I could connect the PC to her old monitor, that would be ideal... -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884

11 years, 6 months

Sun-2 docs available

by derschjo＠gmail.com

Also on the list of "things I meant to share but completely forgot about: http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/sun2/docs/ A set of miscellaneous Sun-2 related documentation (special thanks go out to r. stricklin for his gracious assistance in getting these scanned) including brochures, release notes, configuration guides, and hardware notes. I thinkthat this: http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/sun2/docs/bb100-20k/bb100-20k.pdf is particularly fun, and you can drool over the price lists in: http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/sun2/docs/ee100-5k/pages/ -- only $8,900 for 65mb of storage(And $3,300 for an extra meg of memory...) - Josh

11 years, 6 months

Wyse 50's

by jws＠jwsss.com

I have a line on a bunch of Wyse 50's in the KC area that may be in danger of scrapping. Is there anyone interested in a load? I'm not sure if you need to do much but pick them up or have them shipped. thanks Jim

11 years, 6 months

For Sale Applied Engineering GSRAM Plus RAM Card- Allows expansion up to 6MB RAM

by slandon110＠gmail.com

Selling off one of my rarer ram cards Applied Engineering GSRAM Plus, Expandable to 6MB RAM, Has 1MB On the card $100 shipped via USPS Priority Mail or Best offer Thanks Steve

11 years, 6 months

El Reg : Nuke plants to keep PDP-11 UNTIL 2050!

by stephane.tsacas＠gmail.com

By Richard Chirgwin, 19th June 2013 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_205… -- Stephane FreeDonne <http://www.freedonne.org> Join FreeDonne - Rejoignez FreeDonne.

11 years, 6 months

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test-drb June 2013