March 2012 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:34 PM To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks > On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> > wrote: >> I was just dumping my grey memory cells :-) I did not check the HW. >> Isn't the SA72 a small slim long metal box with a power supply in the >> middle and room for two RA[79]x drive at both ends? > > Pictures? > > I have a couple of bare RA70 drives that I'd like to put into service > on machines that already have SDI controllers and no SCSI. My present > plans involve a plain shelf but a properly-fitting enclosure would be > nice. > > -ethan I can take a few pictures this weekend. Just got to find a good host for the pictures. My web space is near its limit. Any suggestions? The rack that holds the TU81+ tape drive has underneath the space for an RA8x drive. I had it that way, but one year ago I removed the RA82 and installed two of these SA72's. It is intended to be hooked up to the VAX-11/750, but the VAX has PSU "issues". I am pretty sure I have two more SA72 without drives, but contains the PSU is in it IIRC. However, even without any drives installed these things are good if you want to hurt your back :-/ So, shipping one is not an option. I even have a plate that is mounted in the rack ... If you wonder how the SA72 is mounted in a rack, given that its width is just half the width of the rack, well it just "hangs" on one side! The SA72 at the right side hangs on a plate mounted in the rack at the right side, and the SA72 at the left ... on a plate at the left side. Even such a plate is good for a few kilos on the scales! - Henk

13 years, 3 months

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And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

From: "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at softjar.se> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 9:46 AM To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks > On 2012-03-20 18:00, "Henk Gooijen"<henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> wrote: >> From: "Dave McGuire"<mcguire at neurotica.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:58 AM >> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> Subject: And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks >> >>> > On 03/19/2012 11:53 AM, Kevin Reynolds wrote: >>>> >> Anyone have working RA90 or RA92 disks that they would like to part >>>> >> with? >>>> >> Send me a private response with pricing and availability. I'm in >>>> >> the US. >>> > >>> > I make the same request, in case someone has a bunch. =) I'm >>> > interested >>> > in RA8x drives as well. >>> > >>> > -Dave >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ >>> > New Kensington, PA >> >> Haha, I have at least 5 RA82 compete drives, but I really am*not* >> considering shipping them. Pick up only, but this time the chaps >> in the USA are at the wrong side of the big splash. > > RA drives, except the RA7x ones, are probably way too expensive to ship > longer distance. > >> I also have a few RA90 and RA70 IIRC, I'd have to check. >> I might be willing to sell one or two, but shipping from The Netherlands >> to anywhere will certainly be costly! And My testing will be very >> limited. >> I have an SA72 which can hold 4 RA9x drives, but I can not test them >> beyond power up to the "READY" state (IIRC). AFAICR, you can not >> simply install the RA70 in the SA72. > > Hum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SA72 the box that holds up to > 4 RA7x drives? Same physical size as one RA90? > > If so, then no, it don't hold 4 RA9x drives. Also, the RA70 works just > fine in it, as do all RA7x drives. RA70 is somewhat unique, though, in > that it was designed to also be usable without any front panel at all. So > there are dip switches on it that can be used to set the unit number. > > Johnny > > -- > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol You may very well be right Johnny. I was just dumping my grey memory cells :-) I did not check the HW. Isn't the SA72 a small slim long metal box with a power supply in the middle and room for two RA[79]x drive at both ends? At the front side at the top is a connector for the small front panel. The width of the front is 0.5 of 19" so that two of these fit next to each other in a 19" rack. If that's way off, I'd have to check what I actually have ... - Henk.

13 years, 3 months

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Preferred image format for HP single-sided 3.5" floppies?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I have a small stack of single-sided disks that I need to image, and didn't realize that they are 18 sector with 0-16 256 bytes and 17 128 bytes, so Imagedisk won't work. What is the preferred container format? Looks like the Australian museum uses .td0

13 years, 3 months

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OT: Google AdWords and Yahoo/Bing adCenter

by arkaxow＠gmail.com

I just started using Google Adwords and I?m trying to figure out how they charge. I just finished the free first time allotment of $75, now I have to add more money. Does anyone have any experience with this ? Also I?m looking into the Yahoo/Bing adcenter.microsoft.com. They don?t seem to offer a free first time allotment. Does anyone know of any way to get a free startup allotment ? Jeff Brace

13 years, 3 months

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Free: Hughes Personal Earth Station

by devonstopps＠gmail.com

Not sure if anyone has any interest in a Hughes Personal Earth Station circa 1989 - was in use up until early 2011. I also have 3x serial interface breakout boxes with 4 ports each for it. Looks similar to: http://www.mebstore.com/items/item_display.aspx?iid=61910 http://www.thrustssc.com/thrustssc/Equipment/Hughes/PES_and_CODECs.JPG Free for pickup, item is in Toronto, ON, otherwise will be scrapped next week.

13 years, 3 months

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need interface to CDC Keystone (92185) tape drive

by elson＠pico-systems.com

Hello, I was referred by a member, Peter Wallace. We are trying to recover some programs from 9-track backup tapes. I have a working 92185 drive, and had salvaged a SCSI - Pertec formatted interface converter off the back of a Cipher 990 drive at work. The Cipher 990 was total crap, hardly ever worked. The SCSI converter actually worked for a while, I was able to read a few blocks of tape (without a proper program to handle the format, I just did stuff like sudo cat /dev/st0 on a linux system, and got info that looked like the first couple records off a tape. Then, the converter died, it stopped passing its internal self test. But, I had proved the 92185 drive is OK. So, now I'm looking for a way to read these tapes. The best solution would be an off-the-shelf SCSI - Pertec converter, which were made some years ago, but will be hard to find on eBay or such. Another way is to find the SCSI interface board for the 92185, but I've never found one to buy. Another way is to get my Vaxstation running again, the hard drive blew, so it would take some effort to get that back up. I have a Dilog DQ15 controller for it, and if that won't work, I probably have another tape controller, too. Another problem with the VAX is I'd have pull all the data off the tape over a serial interface, it was last running VMS 4.7 without TCP networking. Anybody got any goodies in the basement, any good ideas of how to interface it, etc.? One other choice is to build my own FPGA Pertec interface. The formatted Pertec interface is about as simple as you could imagine, but I'd need to add an SRAM buffer to the FPGA to handle up to 64K byte blocks. Jon

13 years, 3 months

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And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks

by bqt＠softjar.se

On 2012-03-20 18:00, "Henk Gooijen"<henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> wrote: > From: "Dave McGuire"<mcguire at neurotica.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:58 AM > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Subject: And RA8x too, was Re: RA90 or RA92 disks > >> > On 03/19/2012 11:53 AM, Kevin Reynolds wrote: >>> >> Anyone have working RA90 or RA92 disks that they would like to part with? >>> >> Send me a private response with pricing and availability. I'm in the US. >> > >> > I make the same request, in case someone has a bunch. =) I'm interested >> > in RA8x drives as well. >> > >> > -Dave >> > >> > -- >> > Dave McGuire, AK4HZ >> > New Kensington, PA > > Haha, I have at least 5 RA82 compete drives, but I really am*not* > considering shipping them. Pick up only, but this time the chaps > in the USA are at the wrong side of the big splash. RA drives, except the RA7x ones, are probably way too expensive to ship longer distance. > I also have a few RA90 and RA70 IIRC, I'd have to check. > I might be willing to sell one or two, but shipping from The Netherlands > to anywhere will certainly be costly! And My testing will be very limited. > I have an SA72 which can hold 4 RA9x drives, but I can not test them > beyond power up to the "READY" state (IIRC). AFAICR, you can not > simply install the RA70 in the SA72. Hum. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the SA72 the box that holds up to 4 RA7x drives? Same physical size as one RA90? If so, then no, it don't hold 4 RA9x drives. Also, the RA70 works just fine in it, as do all RA7x drives. RA70 is somewhat unique, though, in that it was designed to also be usable without any front panel at all. So there are dip switches on it that can be used to set the unit number. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

13 years, 3 months

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Unidentified Emulex card from 1991

by dennis_mailing_lists＠conus.info

Hi. I got unidentified Emulex card from, probably from 1991. It is 16-bit ISA, it has two connectors male DB-25 and male DE-15F (like on VGA cards, but male). It is probably multi-port card, but I'm not sure. Here detailed photos: Label: http://yurichev.com/non-wiki-files/unknown-emulex/emulex1.jpg Component side: http://yurichev.com/non-wiki-files/unknown-emulex/emulex2.jpg Back side: http://yurichev.com/non-wiki-files/unknown-emulex/emulex3.jpg Connectors: http://yurichev.com/non-wiki-files/unknown-emulex/emulex4.jpg Does anybody here know what this is and whether it's possible to get manuals? Programming manuals?

13 years, 3 months

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Wang system in UK

by dave.g4ugm＠gmail.com

Price is silly but appears to be open to offers... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WANG-VS7150-VS7010-3270-terminals-Diskpacks-1980s- Computing-Props-/220974541399?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WANG-VS7150-VS7010-3270-terminals-Diskpacks-1980s -Computing-Props-/220974541399?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item33731bea57 > &hash=item33731bea57 Dave Wade G4UGM Illegitimi Non Carborundum

13 years, 3 months

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identify a weird lug

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I'm trying to identify a battery clip that seems to actually be a lug of some kind. Would someone please take a look at http://661.org/tmp/kk2048.jpg and tell me what it might be? -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

13 years, 3 months

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FORTH chips (was: Re: Finally running with new software Apple IIe)

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 1:40 -0500 3/20/12, Dave wrote: > Forth chips are awesome, as is Forth. I've never messed with the >Novix chips (NC4000 series?) but I have a couple of Harris RTX2010 chips >here, as well as one of Chuck Moore's new GA144s. 144 hly simple cores >on a chip! Great stuff. I'll have that on a board soon. Several of the instruments on payloads we have flown (including 2 instruments going to Pluto) use RTX2010's for the instrument controllers. (JHU-APL built those instruments (LORRI and PEPSSI) and did a great job with them and their FORTH software.) So in the category of out-of-this-world performance and reliability, RTX2010 is one of my favorite CPU's too. Let us know when you do something cool with yours! -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

13 years, 3 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 103, Issue 26

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> From:?Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Date:?Mon, 19 Mar 2012 00:36:25 -0600 > Subject:?Re: Computer Graphics Museum collection pics > >> I didn't see any Calcomp System 25 Workstations in your collection. >> The RICM has LOTS of them. > > I wasn't aware of these systems. ?According to Computerworld, Calcomp > sold off the division after having an installed base of only 800 units > in order to avoid competing with its own peripherals customers. > <http://books.google.com/books?id=3KBPxFKTY6kC&lpg=PA118&dq=calcomp%20%22sys…> > > This seems to be a workstation introduced in 1984. ?What kind of > graphics environment did it have? ?1984 is too early for X11 and also > I think too early for X10. The page for the Calcomps is here: http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/calcomp-system-25 The RICM has LOTs of documentation on the systems, but have not powered one on yet. -- Michael Thompson

13 years, 3 months

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FS: p-Source book

by charlesmorris800＠centurytel.net

FS: Randall Hyde's 1983 "p-Source: A Guide to the Apple Pascal System". Paperback. Very good condition. Originally cost $24.95! Yours for just $5 plus postage from US zip 65775. thanks Charles

13 years, 3 months

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Good OS-X programmers out here ?

by jdr_use＠bluewin.ch

....that could help me out understanding why the exact same program, on the exact same machine, runs 10 times slower under OS-X than it does under either Ubuntu or Windows ? ( Programmed in C with GCC toolchain and using the FLTK toolset. ) Classicmp link : the program is my new release of Emulith, the ETH Lilith emulator. Jos Dreesen

13 years, 3 months

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Preferred image format for HP single-sided 3.5" floppies?

by dave12＠dunfield.com

>> Which was the cause of a bug in the RS232 driver of the original IBM >> 5150 BIOS... However, I as going to be more charitable in the case of >> the FDC chip and wonder if it was duw to the fact that IIRC the >> origianl IBM 3740 format used a sector as the equivalent of a punched >> card, so only the first 80 chracters were used. > >Your charity might be misplaced. The 765 works just fine with 128 >byte sectors in FM mode. So Chuck ... do you know exactly how this works (as opposed to how it is documented)? 128 bytes/sector is a special case in the 765 (at least it is documented as such). According to the NEC documents, for the sector read and write commands, if you give it a value of 0 for 'n' (6th byte of the command = Number of bytes/sector), the actual number of bytes read/written is determined by the 9th byte written 'DTL' (DaTa Length). The docs don't go into much detail, and I haven't fooled with it much - I just set DTL to 128 when I am reading or writing 128 byte sectors (n=0). A few questions which are not clearly answered by the docs: under "READ DATA" "When N=0, then DTL defines the data length which the FDC must treat as a sector. If DTL is smaller than the actual data length in a sector, the data beyond DTL in the sector is not sent to the data bus. The FDC reads (internally) the complete Sector performing the CRC check, and depending upon the manner of the command termination, may perform a multi-sector read operatiohn. When 'N' is non-zero, then DTL has no meaning and should be set to FF hexidecimal" under "WRITE DATA" there is mention of N=0 or DTL ... but DTL is shown as a part of the write commands, and generally described as "DTL - Data Length - when N is defined as 00, DTL stands for the data length which users are going to read out or write into the sector". The read description seems to imply that the FDC "knows" the actual length of a sector, and only reads the number of bytes specified, while calculating the CRC over the whole sector. - How does it "know" the sector size ... the 'n' field in the ID header is the only place in the sector data that defines the size. - Does it assume the sector is 128 bytes? - or Does it actually read (and check CRC) on a smaller sector? -What is the actual behaviour during write? - Does it fill the remainder of a 128 byte sector with some value? - or Does it actually write a smaller sector? under "FORMAT TRACK" (in the chart notes) "(3) In MFM mode the FDC cannot perform a read/write/format operation with 128 bytes/sector (N = 00)" This implies that 128/MFM simply doesn't work - not even for format (which you indicated earlier actually does work). Is this a fairly reliable assumption? Does DTL have any effect on 128/MFM reads or writes? You mentioned that 80 bytes get transferred instead of 128. Does changing DTL make a difference? Or is it always 80 bytes? Dave -- dave12 (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com (dot) com Classic computers: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/

13 years, 3 months

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Reducing my DEC collection (UK)

by toby＠coreware.co.uk

Hi, I've decided I'd like to reduce down my collection of PDP-11 and PDP-8s and so I have the following that I may be prepared to part with. All the machines and parts are located in the UK and at this stage I'm interested in expressions of interest. Please bare in mind that the machines are for pickup from the UK and would probably be impactical to ship. PDP-11/05 - 5.25" form factor PDP-11/10 PDP-11/15 PDP-11/34 PDP-11/34A PDP-11/35 PDP-11/40 PDP-11/44 PDP-11/70 PDP-8/E, 3 rack setup with 2 x RK05s, 2 x magtape PDP-8/L (missing its core memory card) Various qbus machines (PDP-11/03,11/23,11/73) Various TU56 drives PC04 paper tape drive PC05 paper tape drive Lots of RL01/02 drives RK05 drives All the best, Toby

13 years, 3 months

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PDP 8L

by cfox1＠cogeco.ca

We are trying to revive a PDP 8L, and wonder if anyone can advise us of the equivalent of the DEC1008 transistor, npn germanium, and also where we might track down any of the following boards: G228, G826, G624, G221. Thanks Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ont. 519-254-4991 N8Y3j8 www.chasfoxvideo.com

13 years, 3 months

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Finally running with new software Apple IIe

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 4:14 AM, dwight elvey <dkelvey at hotmail.com> wrote: > ?The one thing I found is that the BASIC on the Apple is really > slow. It is about the slowest I've ever used. How people put > up with it I don't know. Apple Integer Basic was decently fast for the time. Check out say Little Brick Out or Apple Trek. Yeah Applesoft was mostly a step backwards :-) Beagle Bros did a lot of cool things in nominal Applesoft BASIC but you know they were peeking and poking and calling machine language routines for most of the cool stuff :-) If you ever get a chance... Beagle Bag rules :-). "Card Scanner" and "Plenty Questions" were (and are!) my favorite! Tim.

13 years, 3 months

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BitSavers DEC Archive Stuff Missing?

by robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com

I was looking through some RSS feeds of stuff posted to BitSavers, like the following: dec <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec> :: dec archive <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dec_archive> :: 21383578 <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dec_archive/21383578> :: 94-006 003 01 1984-1987 <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dec_archive/21383578/94-006_003_01_1984-1987> :: 19850910 Business Entities My Definition <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dec_archive/21383578/94-006_003_01_1984-1987/1 9850910_Business_Entities_My_Definition.pdf> Enclosures: 19850910_Business_Entities_My_Definition.pdf <http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dec_archive/21383578/94-006_003_01_1984-1987/1 9850910_Business_Entities_My_Definition.pdf> (31 KB) http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/dec_archive/21383578/94-006_003_01_1984-1987/19 850910_Business_Entities_My_Definition.pdf But this link is dead, as are many others. Has this material been moved elsewhere? Regards Rob

13 years, 3 months

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Computer Graphics Museum collection pics

by legalize＠xmission.com

After much work organizing and moving things around, I've got a photo gallery page showing the museum's collection as of March 15th, 2012: <http://computergraphicsmuseum.org/the-collection/> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 version available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

13 years, 3 months

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DECnet for RSX?

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Anybody have a distribution of DECnet for RSX that they might be able to share? -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

13 years, 3 months

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DEC LP20 backplane wiring diagrams

by RichA＠vulcan.com

We have been trying to get working an LP20 printer interface on our 2065. We discovered just today that the issue we have had with bad control signals was not due to bad boards, but rather was due to the fact that the bottom 4 segments of the Unibus backplane into which the control card plugs have no (0) wires wrapped around the pins. We have the LP20 schematics, but the wiring diagram *for the backplane* is not included. It also is not to be found on microfiche, although there is a reference to it, with document numbers. We are specifically looking for 70-11427, 54-11704, and 50-11703. If anyone has any of these documents, please let us know ASAP. Otherwise, a young EE is going to have to spend time with the complete set of LP20 schematics and a spreadsheet program to generate a wire list and re-wire this thing by guess and by $DEITY, a process that will take several weeks with no guarantee of correctness of result. Thanks, Rich Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

13 years, 3 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 103, Issue 25

by michael.99.thompson＠gmail.com

> From:?Richard <legalize at xmission.com> > Subject:?Re: Computer Graphics Museum collection pics > > The octanes were mostly free and several of the VT100s are "parts for > spares". ?Also, if you look closely they are not all VT100s. ?There is > a VT180 in there and also a DECmate. The VAXserver 8000 on your wanted list should be VAXstation 8000. I have one, but it is missing the E&S graphics subsystem. I didn't see any Calcomp System 25 Workstations in your collection. The RICM has LOTS of them. -- Michael Thompson

13 years, 3 months

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OT: Google AdWords and Yahoo/Bing adCenter

by ark72axow＠msn.com

I just started using Google Adwords and I?m trying to figure out how they charge. I just finished the free first time allotment of $75, now I have to add more money. Does anyone have any experience with this ? Also I?m looking into the Yahoo/Bing adcenter.microsoft.com. They don?t seem to offer a free first time allotment. Does anyone know of any way to get a free startup allotment ? Jeff Brace

13 years, 3 months

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Kryoflux - a reaction from a potential new customer

by cb＠kryoflux.com

> (Me) >>> > > These days, you probably want something more like this: >>> > > http://www.kryoflux.com/ > (Other chap) >> > The driver is not only closed-source, but forbids commercial use and >> > requests donations on top of the EUR100 they charge for about EUR20 of >> > electronics. The vendor can go fuck themselves. And you can quote me on >> > that. > Sorry, chaps, but I really do think you have a bit of a problem here > that you need to address! Hi Liam, I am not sure if it does make much sense to address these polite "concerns" by the other chap... :) If the person making this statement can make boards for EUR 20.- each we'd be delighted to buy from him. For sure such price would be possible when making 100,000+ boards. We do runs of 100, we have to pay for electronics recycling (WEEE) registration, we pay tax, etc. I am sure hobbyists only doing a few boards can get around such things, we can't. We can't get even near this figure. For the record: the board is EUR 90.-; EUR 100.- is with cables we also have to buy to resell them. The donations asked for are for the preservation project, maybe it would have made sense to read the donations text file enclosed. And yes, even MS Office has student and pro editions available, I don't see anything wrong in charging companies that can afford to pay more. They keep it free for private users, at least for our product.

13 years, 3 months

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Autonetics D17 - D37 console info?

by rlaag＠pacbell.net

ARE THERE ANY PICTURES OF THE D17 FRONT PANEL, IF NOT, I HAVE ONE WE COULD PHOTOGRAPH... ?OR IF ANYONE WANTS A PICTURE...

13 years, 3 months

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Help Needed

by jthecman＠netscape.net

Hello I have two problems that I need help with, one is an IBM Card Interpeter model 552 that has 3 broken legs. I think it's cast iron and one welder told me he could weld the legs back on the unit. Does anyone if these can be repaired or should we build a box with wheels to set it in for museum display? The second problem is a set of Apple MAC 20th Anv pens that have, the pen bodies have turned very soft and sticky and help on stopping this so that these too can be part of a display? Thanks, John

13 years, 3 months

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Autonetics D17 - D37 console info?

by wmaddox＠pacbell.net

--- On Fri, 3/16/12, Bob Rosenbloom <bobalan at sbcglobal.net> wrote: > Could it have been used for testing a processor out in the > lab before installation on a missile? Note the nice wooden > sides! The styling is definitely industrial, not military, which makes me wonder if there was a commercial version of the D37. (Univac had an industrial machine what was a repackaged version of a military processor -- I don't recall the model.) More likely, there was a repackaged version of the machine for use in software development, with more appropriate peripherals for testing code than a gyro platform and a nuke! --Bill

13 years, 3 months

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seeking hp48 card info, oliver klotz

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I'm trying to figure out how to contact the Oliver Klotz who used to sell HP48 RAM cards on ebay a couple years ago. I'm trying to get my hands on some and, if possible, schematics for higher-capacity cards. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

13 years, 3 months

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Kryoflux - a reaction from a potential new customer

by lproven＠gmail.com

On another mailing list that I am on, someone was expressing the desire to retrieve data off some old BBC Micro floppies to see if it would be possible to get some of the software running on a Raspberry Pi. They do not own any machine with a floppy interface. I suggested KryoFlux as a possible solution. This was the response: (Me) > > These days, you probably want something more like this: > > http://www.kryoflux.com/ (Other chap) > The driver is not only closed-source, but forbids commercial use and > requests donations on top of the EUR100 they charge for about EUR20 of > electronics. The vendor can go fuck themselves. And you can quote me on > that. Sorry, chaps, but I really do think you have a bit of a problem here that you need to address! -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884

13 years, 3 months

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Kryoflux - a reaction from a potential new customer

by dave12＠dunfield.com

>On another mailing list that I am on, someone was expressing the >desire to retrieve data off some old BBC Micro floppies to see if it >would be possible to get some of the software running on a Raspberry >Pi. They do not own any machine with a floppy interface. My BBC's don't have drives, and I don't have any software disks - so I don't have a way to test this ... but ... According to the all-knowing google, the BBC disk system used an Intel 8271 and later an WD 177x controller - the 8271 does IBM 3740, and the WD is certainly capable of it (so hopefully they kept the format the same). So it seems to me that there is a reasonable chance that these disks could be read with ImageDisk - granted he'll need a DOS/floppy capable PC (or a friend with one), but it might be worth a try. Dave PS: If anyone does read BBC disks, I'd love copies for the archive. -- dave12 (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com (dot) com Classic computers: http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/

13 years, 3 months

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Seemingly complete DG S/230 16 bit Eclipse system

by chris＠mainecoon.com

On ebay, item 230754098992. The seller is somewhat clueless about what he has (it's an 80s machine, not 60s) and is probably missing a zero from his estimate of what the thing weighs, but otherwise it looks complete and in good condition save for a couple of rack filler panels that look like someone drove into them. From the photos it looks like two 1600BPI drives, a couple of 8" Fuji SMD drives with some sort of emulating controller and three IAC-16s or equivalent. No affiliation with the seller, save for the fact that I'd be bidding on the thing if I could figure out how to get it from VA to CA. -- Dr. Christian Kennedy chris at mainecoon.com AF6AP http://www.mainecoon.com PGP KeyID 108DAB97 PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 "Mr. McKittrick, after careful consideration..."

13 years, 3 months

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HP 9000 Pascal sources

by aek＠bitsavers.org

I just uploaded the 9000/200 300 source product floppies to http://bitsavers.org/bits/HP/HP_9000/pascal/B3466A/ They are part of the HP donation to CHM of Apollo and 68000 HP 9000 software and may be redistributed for non-commercial educational use.

13 years, 3 months

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Dilog DQ619 - PDP11 Floppy SA450 interface

by shadoooo＠gmail.com

Hello. I acquired a Dilog DQ619 Qbus card for PDP11. It is a Floppy SA450 interface with RX02 emulation. I'm searching for a manual, or for some info about jumper configuration and general usage. Anybody has this board? Thanks Andrea

13 years, 3 months

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SPS licence

by cb＠kryoflux.com

> The licence I read (on the Kryoflux website llast week, probably in the > PC distribution) seemed to define 'Technology' as includign the > documentation. And I feel that this could well include the file format. > That's why I sent the link along to the file format description that's on Jean's site in France. It's for sure not covered by the licence and it's even endorsed by us (we gave Jean the info needed). Apart from that, I will make sure the licence will exclude the format in the future. > I accept it's not your intetnion to limit the file format in this way, > but I think the licence needs work... > Indeed. I jumped aboard in 2009, and many things have happened since then. You can't change things in a day. But it's on the list. > In any case there are many things I can download and read on your website > that I can't just use as I like. You licnese specifically prohibts me > from revers-engineerign the program, it prevents me using any part of in > in a competing product, and so on. I do not have to sign any agreenment > or NDA to get that material either. > > While I may be in favour of 'open' solutions, I am happy to accept that > you have the legal and moral right to distribute your work (or not) under > whatever licence you choose, and that if I don;t agree to the terms than > I don't use your work. Nowehre is it clear to me that the file format > does not come under this As said earlier, no one here wants ownership in data ingested with the device. You can take my word for that and it will be addressed. I am not making this claim to sell anything to you, but because it matters to me.

13 years, 3 months

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Things available in Minneapolis?

by jules.richardson99＠gmail.com

Hi all, Just wondering if anyone knows of any vintage equipment available in the Minneapolis area? I'll be heading down to Bloomington this coming Saturday for a few days, and - for once - will have a van with me which will have a bit of free space inside (normally on such trips it ends up full to the gills with other stuff :-), so I could potentially pick something up on the Sunday or Monday to bring back with me. I am actually picking up a QX-10 on the way down there, but I think I'll have a bit more room for something else so long as it wasn't too big/heavy. cheers Jules

13 years, 3 months

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SPS licence

by cb＠kryoflux.com

> Howeve, I am sure tht could be taken to be a derriveative work, and as > such covered in parrt by the licence in question. I know you don't intend > that, but it is not at all clear how a future owner of your technology > could react. I';d certainly want things a lot clearer before I made use > of the STRAM formet. Hey Tony, no it can't. Jean did not use "the technology". He got the information from us and never signed an agreement, NDA or whatever. If you look at the current rel. 2 of KF 2.0 b9 for the Mac you will find that I already made a quick fix to the definition of derivative works (threw out the formats). This will be refined even further.

13 years, 3 months

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Alternate display technologies (was Re: COSMAC Elf 2000 - TIL311 displays)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:02 PM, Shoppa, Tim <tshoppa at wmata.com> wrote: > My faves: > > Flip-dots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-disc_display Love those. Never found a way to make them affordably and never ran across a panel to re-use. > Edge illuminated numeric displays (link shows a modern version... the old ones used grain of wheat lamps): http://blog.makezine.com/2012/02/18/edge-lit-led-nixie-tube-display/ Those are really fun. I did some experiments with acrylic and a mill a while back, but now, I'd probably try it with a small table-top CNC. -ethan

13 years, 3 months

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Apple 1 programs

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I just re-discovered a directory on my server that has Apple 1 or at least 6502 programs in hex dumps and also object code that was apparently "assembled" using a PHP script I guess I wrote at some point in the past that I also found in the directory. I've long forgotten from where they came, and what they are doing there, but while they are there I figure other people should download them, especially Apple-1 tinkerers. Have at it and have fun. http://siconic.com/a1/ NOTE: the files that have a .xxx extension are binary files. -- Sellam Ismail VintageTech ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintagetech.com Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap...The truth is always simple.

13 years, 3 months

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Discferret broken?

by cb＠kryoflux.com

> I will answer in brief. Hi Dave, so do I. now I think I understand the issue. It's about the (old) open source discussion and daring to ask for money. I really don't feel like arguing against that. What I know is that people deliver good work when they are motivated. I see no evil in the fact that people get paid because this can be a very good motivation. It also enables you to spend money for things that make the product better.You also can spend the money to train programmers so they use latest techniques and don't do beginners faults. I don't speak for everyone involved, but: I scan artefacts with a commercial scanner software, I process images with Photoshop, and I use TotalCommander to organise files and put them up on the FTP. This does not mean the images scanned and archived are less preserved. I would not want to exchange a single tool. I enjoy using them every single day.

13 years, 3 months

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gopher help

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

Does anyone here know where the pygopherd mailing list lives now? I tried gopher-request at complete.org and it bounced back. I'm trying to figure out how to make it such that the entire filename is shown, extension included. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

13 years, 3 months

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SPS licence (was: Re:Discferret broken?)

by cb＠kryoflux.com

Hi David, > The best (and probably the only effective) way to prevent distribution > of forged images are signing them with GnuPG, or providing a list of > SHA-1 (or better, MD5 can be forged too easily) checksums of known > good images. Otherwise, anyone can tamper with images, even with a > simple hex editor. > Yes, that's something that's on the list for some time now. The official lib will come with the hashes for all 4,000 releases "out in the wild", new ones will be signed. Back in the day simply keeping it closed was easier, quicker, and also did the job. I understand that being open has to do with trust, hence the lib was opened as promised. > > In this field of data preservation, the only way we'll actually be > able to get things done successfully and actually preserve the most > history is by working together. Sure this might cut into the profits > of some, but if the goal is profits (or even amassing a large private > collection), then you're in the wrong business. > To give you a brief sum up of what has happened since 2001: The project / org was founded by a programmer (Istv?n F?bi?n) that was so upset about only pirated, obfuscated copies of his games being in circulation that he tried to submit the games to some project that would care about storing true and unmodified original mastering data. There was none, so CAPS (The Classic Amiga Preservation Society) was born. F?bi?n developed a toolchain that would allow for using an Amiga 1200 (which has a special floppy controller; actually none) as the ingestion device. This data would then be processed and stored as IPF files. Over the years the toolchain and the number games preserved grew. The project was renamed to SPS (The Software Preservation Society) as it became evident that other platforms had the same (no mastering data being preserved) problem. It also became evident that the Amiga as the ingestion device won't be around forever. It is a dying platform. Hence other technology was inspected but no solution satisfied our needs (capturing unprocessed flux changes as delivered by the drive). By 2008 the project had spent more than EUR 50.000 on buying games; most of this money was donated by project members. Please consider: There are a few games you care about personally, but you pretty quickly reach the point where you have acquired all games that matter to you? In 2009 we picked up the Cyclone20 project by Rich Aplin. Rich and me worked for Cachet back in the day and Rich was the inventor of the original Cyclone (a duplication tool that would force feed data read to the target drive). Rich had lost interest so we decided to develop the proof of concept to something usable. It took us about 1,5 years to redesign everything and to move from prototype to production status. Just for the record? until then we only had gotten very few donations for SPS which were spent on - you might have guessed it - buying and preserving games. The digital assets produced are given to libraries, museums and back to the original contributors. Some of these also share the images. Something we can't do ourselves without jeopardising the project. When KryoFlux was ready we decided to sell it trough a company, to protect ourselves (things can go wrong, people can try to sue, etc. - you don't want to risk your personal life for a hobby) and to give this thing a legal basis to build upon. When you sell hundreds of boards, regardless of your margin, you better are registered for electronics recycling and you better pay tax. The money earned is intended to pay for the expenses, but also help establish SPS as an NPO, and of course? help buying more games. In Japan, gamepres, run by one of our members, was already accepted as an NPO. Because of this, KryoFlux was never made because we thought it was a cool thing to sell, it was and still is the tool we needed and we made it happen after several others said they could / would, but never did. I have no idea when I really spent an evening on playing a classic game? > Concerning SPS, I think the fact that only game dumps are accepting is > rather telling. There is a load of software, for Amiga and other > platforms, which is at least as important to preserve. The other day I > talked to a former Amiga game developer, who mentioned that Digi-Paint > was used heavily in game development. I managed to locate a copy, but > it appears that software like this, which may be important to play > around with art assets included in games, does not fall into the kind > of materials that SPS is interested in. > It for sure does. But when you are a group of five or less, you have to focus on something. Games came with high profile protection techniques. These can't be stored by standard sector dumps. It was therefore decided to focus on the most precious stuff and hope that others would do the more easy part. But we always took dumps of apps when we could get them, and we still do. We e.g. have various versions of DPaint. A quick look in the archive shows we have 2-5, physically and digitally. > I may be wrong about this, but in regards to preserving this stuff, > personally I'd trust an open, helpful group like BitSavers much more > than a private group interested in selling their products. Maybe the above helps explain things? It's odd, but things become really complicated once money is in the game.

13 years, 3 months

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Displays (Was: COSMAC Elf 2000 - TIL311 displays)

by rickb＠bensene.com

I love the TIL-311's. I used them to make a display for a microcode ROM dump fixture for Wang 700-series calculators. Having the latch, decoder, and LED display all in one package made the whole thing a lot easier to build. Plus, the display just look cool. Desktop electronic calculators used just about every kind of display technology there was beginning with the Burroughs (and licensees) Nixie tube. Here I list some of them, and some examples (some of which can be found on the Old Calculator Museum website, http://oldcalculatormuseum.com). Nixie tubes were extremely popular in the early days, beginning with the first electronic calculator (Sumlock/Anita Mk 7 & 8), and lasting into the mid-1970's. The SCM Marchant-I "handheld" electronic calculator used Nixie tubes...the only "portable" electronic calculator that I know of that did this. There were also the unusual Nixie-like displays, where a number of digits worth of Nixies were combined into a single tube (Lago Calc LC-816). Small vector CRT displays were used on some early desktop calculators (like Friden 130/132, Friden 1160-series, SCM Cogito 240SR, Victor 14-32x series, and HP 9100A/B, with a few others) , and were very cool. Canon's early electronic calculators (Canon 130, 161, 130S) used edge-lit plastic panels with grain-of-wheat incandescent lamps to light the plastic panel from the edge. The panels had dots etched into them in the shape of digits to catch the light and project it out as numerals to the user. These were abandoned when Canon switched to Nixie tubes, as the edge-lit panel displays were simply too expensive, and tedious to repair when the lamps burned out. As Nixies started to wane in favor of less-expensive display technologies, lots of manufactures went to Burroughs Panaplex panels, which were less expensive, and easier to interface. Lots of machines (of few of which are Wang 600, Commodore US*1/US*8/US*10, Victor 1800-series, Friden 1203) used these panels. A few machines also used tube-type versions of 7-segment gas-discharge displays, such as the Passport CA-850(clone of APF Mark I), and Sperry-made multi-digit gas-discharge modules (Commodore US*14, Tektronix 31). LEDs came on board on some desktop machines (MITS 1440, HP 9800-series), but ended up really being the display of choice for the new up-and coming handheld machines, until VF, and later, LCD displays usurped them. There weren't all that many desktop calculators that ended up using LED displays. VF-style tube displays also took over in desktop and some handheld machines as the reign of gas-discharge tubes and panels came to an end. There was some interesting VF tubes, most notably, the Japanese Iseden-made Itron tubes that had a unique segment rendition to make digits look more "handwritten". These were first used on Sharp's QT-8D calculator, which was the second (though the first successful) electronic calculator to use a MOS/LSI chipset for all of the calculating logic (with the much earlier Victor 3900 actually claiming the title of first, but there were some major problems with the machine that led to low production figures, and many of the machines being recalled). These displays were different enough to make them engaging. Sharp used them on quite a number of desktop and "handheld" (EL-8, EL-8M) machines. Alas, the days of these displays is pretty much gone. LCD and VF panels have replaced them all in calculators, as well as all kinds of other stuff like kitchen appliances, gas pumps (for a long time gas pumps used really large Beckman gas-discharge displays), instrumentation, copiers, audio equipment, and just about everything else that needs a display. Though not used in any calculator that I'm aware of, the Burroughs "Self-Scan" displays, which were gas-discharge dot-matrix displays that used fancy manufacturing techniques to build the shift register that held the state of the dots into the display elements themselves (essentially a planar version of an old Dekatron tube). Data would be clocked into the display and it automatically shifted as the dots were being shifted in, and when static, no refreshing was required. These were used for in displays for early electronic point-of-sale cash registers that would display information about the item as well as the price. They were also used a lot in some early portable data terminals (with a few lines of perhaps 20 characters each). They were also quite popular in Computer Numerical Control (CNC) controllers for displays showing the status of the machine. They significantly reduced the complexity of making a device with a flexible alphanumeric (or even simple graphic) display. These, too, met their end when VF and later, LCD dot matrix displays replaced them. Displays have always been an interest for me, and dovetails well into my calculator fixation. Rick Bensene

13 years, 3 months

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COSMAC Elf 2000 - TIL311 displays

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

>> What about the Panaplex 7-segemnt gas discharge displays? >> >> Or the gas discharge dot-matrix displays that include their own 'sift >> register)? You know how you can step a discharge round a dekatron tub, > > I liked the mechanical project-type display, where a stepping > arrangement moved a strip of film. Probably a bit large for an Elf, > though. My faves: Flip-dots http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-disc_display Edge illuminated numeric displays (link shows a modern version... the old ones used grain of wheat lamps): http://blog.makezine.com/2012/02/18/edge-lit-led-nixie-tube-display/

13 years, 3 months

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COSMAC Elf 2000 - TIL311 displays

by henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com

Hi, with all this talking about the COSMAC and the gizmo from STG, I went searching through my boxes for some TIL311 displays. My rusty memory has still some good spots :-) I have 8 TIL311 displays which I can list on eBay, but I offer them here first, so I know they land in a good home. Asking $35 (for all 8) plus shipping (from The Netherlands). First responder to pa8pdp AT amsat DOT org gets them. I only have 8 of them. - Henk.

13 years, 3 months

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Tychon Board

by wheagy＠gmail.com

Can anyone identify this board? I got it with a bunch of old TRS-80 hardware, but it's not necessarily related. It says "Designed by the Blacksburg Group Copyright 1979 TYCHON". Any ideas? http://www.flickr.com/photos/wheagy/6977334853/in/photostream Thanks, Win

13 years, 3 months

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SPS licence

by cb＠kryoflux.com

> So you're making the claim that the file formats are fully open, > fully documented, and anyone can extract the data at any time, > regardless of the status of KryoFlux Ltd? Hi Dave, yes - that was the intention of putting the source up there. The old licence will be tidied up more and more, but again, to make something available now, the IPF source was released with a very short and permissive licence. I would also like to point out that there's a very informative third-party website around that's run by Jean Louis-Guerin. He's helping with seeing things from the user side. You tend to become blind for the obvious when you do things for a long time. http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/devices/kryoflux.php There's much free info there, and it also has another document on the STREAM format produced by KryoFlux. Someone mentioned he'd regard the file format as documentation (which would then be covered by the licence), so here's an independent source: http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/devices/kryoflux/kryoflux_stream_protoc… You might want to take note of the fact that this is independent stuff and we've encouraged Jean to release whatever he wants to release.

13 years, 3 months

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Wanted: HP 13232C cable

by mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us

Does anyone have a spare 13232C (02640-60059) cable to sell? I can build one, but thought I'd check here, first. Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

13 years, 3 months

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SPS licence (was: Re:Discferret broken?)

by cb＠kryoflux.com

> No, the problem is the redefinition of Derivative Works to include any > images produced by the device using the KF binary software > distribution. Since the binary blob falls under this license, this > means all IPFs (and STREAM dumps too) that were dumped with the KF. Although not intentional, this is the heritage of the library when there was nothing else to be covered. We don't claim ownership in any data dumped with KryoFlux, and this will be addressed in the next release. For now all I can offer is that people in doubt will get written (email) confirmation. This applies to all data ever read with the unit. Thanks for pointing this out. > If all you wanted to do is prevent compilation CDs of IPFs, > prohibiting the IPF library from being redistributed should have been > enough. Such a prohibition is in the licenses. I don't see why such a > redefinition of derivative works, and restriction on what you can do > with these "derivative works", was ever necessary. > There was a time when such companies would just feed whatever they could into extended ADFs, which would have caused more trouble than fun. Again, this was when the Amiga was still in the commercial marketplace and the idea was to stop people from forging things.

13 years, 3 months

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Tychon Board, Take 2

by wheagy＠gmail.com

Ok, let's try this again. Nothing is easy.... Can anyone identify this board? I got it with a bunch of old TRS-80 hardware, but it's not necessarily related. It says "Designed by the Blacksburg Group Copyright 1979 TYCHON". Any ideas? http://i.imgur.com/cDncC.jpg Thanks, Win

13 years, 3 months

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test-drb March 2012