test-drb January 2012

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

201 participants
274 discussions

Scheme implementation [was RE: teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC]

by RichA＠vulcan.com

From: ben Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 7:27 AM > On 1/3/2012 7:03 AM, Toby Thain wrote: >> Yeah? Scheme has come in at around forty. And you don't get much more >> modern than that. > I thought scheme was written in C. SCHEME[1] was written in MACLISP under the ITS operating system running on a PDP-10. Who says Lisp isn't good for writing interesting software? ;-> [1] The name was really "Schemer", a follow-on to Conniver which was a response to Planner. Program names are represented in 6-bit packed 6 per word in ITS. Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

12 years, 11 months

teaching programming to kids - Re: Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by julianskidmore＠yahoo.com

Hi folks, > I'm writing a small Forth engine right now >>While BASIC is good for a starting language it is not the first >>>language I'd bring up on a machine unless it had already been >>>setup on that machine. >>>I'd bring up Forth. One can get the console in and out running >>>first. One can then easily experiment with the disk IO until >>>it is working right. >>>The source is available and easy to understand. >>>Once one has a good understanding, bringing up other >>>languages is trivial. When it comes to teaching programming to kids, simple computers like those in the 8-bit era surely have to be the best. You might want to check out FIGnition, my DIY educational computer, which although based on a modern AVR MCU, is designed to work like a retro 8-bit computer; is simple enough to be built by novices and small enough to be fairly easily understood. https://sites.google.com/site/libby8dev/fignition It works with PAL and NTSC video and around 80 have been sold to Universities, Colleges and Schools in the past 8 months since its release. -cheers from julz

12 years, 11 months

Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by jfoust＠threedee.com

At 11:08 PM 1/2/2012, Ethan Dicks wrote: >I was never a C128 user, nor were there a lot of them in our local >Commodore user group. In general, though, how common was CP/M usage >among the C128 crowd? Was it too little, too late by then? Certainly CBM was pretty good at "too little, too late." When I acquired my C-64 in 1984 or so, I spent too much for the CP/M cartridge, and I rarely used it. I, like CBM, thought it would widely expand what software I might run. Didn't turn out that way. - John

12 years, 11 months

An interesting job for someone in the UK?

by lproven＠gmail.com

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/12/30/hawking_job/ Maintain & support the undocumented tech of Prof Stephen Hawking's wheelchair. Wow. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884

12 years, 11 months

CP/M FCB structure (was 22disk & CP/M's diskettes )

by elazzerini＠interfree.it

Hi all, Some days ago I posted a request to identify the FCB parameters to read correctly a 8" disk CP/M. I know that i was wrong in the subject so I would like to summarize and i thank you for the suggestions and criticisms. The data obtained directly with the STAT command DSK: are the following: 9600: 128 Byte Record Capacity 1200: Kilobyte Drive Capacity 128: 32 Byte Directory Entries 128: Checked Directory Entries 128: Records / Extent 16: Records / Block 64: Sectors / Track 2: Reserved tracks 2 SIDES After further investigation the parameters for the correct reading would appear as follows: BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - 8 DSDD " MFM DENSITY, HIGH CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 2 SECTORS 8,1024 Side1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Side2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 ORDER CYLINDERS BSH 4 BLM 15 EXM 0 DSM 300 DRM 127 AL0 SFO 00H 11110000B AL1 2 END The following additional information which I hope can clarify or help: The inclusion of incorrect data was due to a misreading of my screen on the console CP/M in the data down the email. The calculations were performed by acquiring more information from the operating system CP/M manuals which shows how to derive the parameters needed to compose and then subsequently identified by extrapolating the FCB. The stat command dsk: when possible on a working machine that is able to read the disk whose parameters are to be identified can be useful, but if you can not read the disc seems to have realized that the only way is to use anadisk and 22disk. Anadisk reports: Tracks 0 and 1 = single density 26x128byte with OS CP/M that points to a resident BIOS involved in F800H entry points; Tracks 2-76 = 8x1024byte double density with directory consists of 2 blocks 2048Byte for a total of 128 entries and the remaining space for data SCO2 means disk2 SCOMAR machine (in Italy there was a PCB derived from the Ferguson Bigboard I with a different 1797 FDC controller and BIOS and it has been used to drive a knitting machine now discontinued and no longer supported) The diskette was created from a friend using software IMD of Dave Dunfield and myself played on floppy 3.5 "1.44MB respecting the original features (or almost I hope) With these parameters i was able to read and write to the disk even it remains some doubt as for example by adding the file to disk MBASIC.COM this does not seem to properly turn on the machine that uses this disk format Infact the main problem was that probabily the EXM value not make me able to write files greater than 16KB and the picture visualized the 3 times the same filename. So any kind of suggestion to understand betfer the FCB structure and parameters of CP/M will be welcome. I would like to thank: - For suggestions allison for the valuable explanations and clarifications which go beyond the simple description inherent in any textbook Cisin Fred for the tip to detect the possible size of the FCB parameter BLS analyzing the disk About received criticism may i ask for: - Could anybody give me the name of sw to reduce the size of a photo? - And what used to convert it into text easily? (I have not had a chance to do a dump from the screen) - Where can I buy the registered version of 22disk or is no longer available or supported? I apologize again for my poor English that puts me in trouble to fully understand the criticism received. Have an happy new year 2012 to all. Enrico - Pisa - ITaly

12 years, 12 months

Wanted - Boards for KS-10 (PDP-20 / DECSYSTEM 20)

by et＠arpanet.com

Wanted - Boards for KS-10: (PDP-20/DECSYSTEM-20) 40722 64K memory M8629 64k memory M8616 Console+Clock M8618 memory controller M8619 unibus adapter M8621 Data path memory M8620 Data path execute M8622 Control Ram Address M8623 Control Ram I have a KS-10 with a few boards, but hopeful I'll be able to complete it someday - getting it running after that is another story :-) (Any leads on where to find those boards would be greatly appreciated). Thanks, Ed Taussig

12 years, 12 months

CP/M disk format: need help

by cisin＠xenosoft.com

WHAT brand and model computer are you talking about? On Tue, 27 Dec 2011, Enrico Lazzerini wrote: > Well this is all i know: > 8" > STAT d:DSK: > 9600 r: 128 Byte Record Capacity > 1200 k: Kilobyte Drive Capacity > 128 d: 32 Byte Directory Entries > 128 c: Checked Directory Entries > 128 e: Records/ Extent > 16 b: Records/ Block > 64 s: Sectors/ Track > 2 t: Reserved Tracks > 2 SIDES > This is that I calculate: > BEGIN SCO2 (1024 bytes/sector) - DSDD 8" > DENSITY MFM ,HIGH 1200K disk capacity is close to maximum for an 8" diskette. It is what you expect from 8" DSDD. "High" would be incorrect usage, but >from a 5.25" perspective, it fits. > CYLINDERS 77 SIDES 1 SECTORS 8,1024 NO. You can not get 1200K disk capacity from single sided. > SIDE1 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 > SIDE2 0 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 Those are 10 sectors per side. You said 8 Are you sure that that is the sector sequence? > Here what 22disk tell me: > http://elazzerini.interfree.it/Foto2982.jpg > Where I'm wrong? 1) Instead of transcribing some text, you sent a URL to a picture that is more than 2 MEGAbytes. (a photograph of your screen?) THANK YOU for sending the URL instead of attaching it! A) Not everybody reads their mail in a web browser. Sending a URL requires cut and paste to get it TO the web browser. B) Believe it or not, some of us use dial-up! 2M takes too long. C) Surely that file could be MUCH smaller. Thats a kilobyte for each character on the screen. Was it an error message? That would only call for a few lines of text. Was it a scrambled display, such as non-ASCII characters in filenames? 2) You are posting asking for technical support for an unregistered copy of a program on a forum where the author is an active participant! If you REGISTER the program, then he will provide support, maybe even an updated copy of the program, etc. (It may have additional formats now!) You didn't tell us the name of the format. You didn't tell us the form of your calculations. Were they a wild guess? or did you look at sectors on the disk to determine them? What "side-pattern" is it? Does it alternate sides before incrementing cylinder, or does it increment cylinder first, and use the first side before starting on the second? Does it then go UP the second side, or DOWN? You didn't provide us with hex dumps of the directory sectors. NO, DO NOT SEND US MORE PHOTOGRAPHS! If the problem is in the directory, then let's see THAT! It's 32 bytes per directory entry/extent - depending on what the problem is, it might not take more than a few.

12 years, 12 months

Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC

by jonas＠otter.se

> [BASIC-09] > >> > Never even heard of that one, but then, I've never seen or used OS/9 I'm my > I am not suprised, It wasn't that common. > >> > life. Never owned a Dragon or any other 6809 box. > I ran it on my CoCos. In generla, the OS-9 languages were very nice for > an 8-bit machine. In the early 1980s I worked for a fork lift manufacturer, and we were two persons who wrote a simple ISAM file database and a warehouse stock control system for a Swedish 6809 machine from a company called Primal Data. I have no idea why they chose that name, but their machines were well made. They had MMUs so I think we had 1 MB of memory in them. We wrote the software in Pascal under OS-9, some of it in Microware Pascal, later we discovered another Pascal, the name of which escapes me at the moment. I remember it compiled to machine code instead of p-code, and had a lot of bells and whistles which we found useful, although slightly buggy as opposed to Microware's Pascal which was quite solid IIRC. We managed to work two or three people at the same time on one machine. Compiling was dreadfully slow with only 5 1/4" diskettes and the machines were much nicer when we had 10 MB hard disks (Rodime) put in them. /Jonas

12 years, 12 months

SCSI-1 to IDE/SD bridge project

by LYNCHAJ＠YAHOO.COM

Hi I will be getting additional SCSI to IDE/SD PCBs in mid-January 2012 in case anyone would like some Douglas's working SCSI to IDE/SD board with a firmware release is here http://groups.google.com/group/n8vem/browse_thread/thread/5d5fb5bf2f197082# The KiCAD EDA files are also posted on the N8VEM wiki http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks.com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder&param=MINI%20SCSI%20t o%20IDE%20prototypes It is not complete yet but a working Zapple debug monitor is *major progress* towards a working bridge converter. Am looking for additional development team members to finish out the firmware on this project. We are very close and just need some additional effort to complete the project. Serious responses only please. Andrew Lynch

12 years, 12 months

Looking for 8080/Z80 BASIC (allison)

by james＠attfield.co.uk

On 12/31/2011 01:43 AM, Josh Dersch wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably featured 8080 or Z80 > BASIC? > > What I've got running at the moment is a mongrel IMSAI 8080 with a > Z80, 48K of working memory and a serial port. My eventual goal is to > get CP/M running on it (I have a Cromemco 64FDC -- anyone know of > either an official CP/M for this or know of a BIOS that supports this > controller before I start writing my own?) but for the time being I > thought it would be fun to get a BASIC running on it. > If you have drives hooked up you will be able to run Cromemco CDOS with a 64-FDC and the obvious choices would be either Cromemco 16K Basic or 32K Structured Basic (although 64K might be a better bet for that one). You don't say what CPU board you have but I have run CDOS in an IMSAI with a ZPU, 16-FDC and 64K and it runs nicely - lovely blinkenlights! Moving to CP/M shouldn't be too hard but you will have to either find a pre-patched one or integrate the IO and disk routines yourself and, catch 22, that needs a working system to start with (chicken and egg of course). If you do move to CP/M expect that the Cromemco Basic's won't work without some patching as they typically use some CDOS calls not present in CP/M. James

12 years, 12 months

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test-drb January 2012