test-drb April 2011

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

184 participants
276 discussions

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

The IBM channel cables were separately a Bus Cable and a Tag Cable and I believe the high data rate version had two of one of them, probably the Bus Cable. They used an IBM proprietary hermaphroditic pin and shell which initially we had to buy from IBM at extraordinary prices but after a while someone, I forgot whom, came out with a plug compatible pin that avoided IBMs patents. The Signal Cable in the OEM HDD interface from RP01 -> SMD interface had three tags (set head, set cylinder and control) and a bus of varying width starting with 8 bits and growing about 1 bit/generation. The DC cable in the same interface had separate read and write cables and a few signals. The names go back to the 2311 era or perhaps the 1311 era when I seem to recall at least the DC Cable carried some DC into the drive. They had a 4th tag, set difference which the OEMs didn't use. Tom > Message: 20 > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 13:44:17 -0700 > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Subject: Re: CMS disk drive? > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <4DB09721.8030200 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 4/21/11 1:20 PM, William Donzelli wrote: > > These connectors are smaller than b&t, and are a weird mix of pins, > blades, > > and coax. > > > > OK, the connectors I was thinking of were like page 1-2 of > TM114-1072-J-1M_Model_114_Tech_Oct73 > > The 114 calls the two cables DC (radial) and SIGNAL (BUSED). SIGNAL has > bus and tag lines and > the DC cable has the coax. They are similar to the Memorex cables with AMP > connectiors Tom > mentioned. > > Weren't the cables from the CPU to Controllers "Channel" cables?

14 years, 1 month

HP6940B Free!

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

Free for a little gas money - a new? in box with manual 6940B general purpose IO box, can be used with quite a few HP systems with the right interface card, which we do not have. Located in Boulder, CO, and can deliver to SLC, Seattle, or the Bay Area. It is not too huge, about ten inches of rack space. Let me know now! -- Will

14 years, 1 month

CMS disk drive?

by thomas.gardner＠sbcglobal.net

Can up describe it in more detail or better yet post some photos? For example does it have 20 heads? Is the funny connector the AMP M series, are there 3 (control in, out and data in/out)? Does the spindle look like the nose cone of a rocket with a hole in the center? Etc. CMS might be Caelus Memory Systems but I don't think they ever did a 2314 class machine I seem to recall a Computer Memory Systems but I think they were much later Could be some variant on CalComp or Century Data Systems Tom > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:55:56 -0400 > From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> > Subject: CMS disk drive? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <BANLkTimw66t7NP9+HVxPEyGQ21NmK2ZQMQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I have encountered an old 14" disk drive - it looks like it is > probably a clone of an IBM 2314. It does not look like a 2314 at all > (it is plain blue box with, that sort of looks like a 2311, but with > more heads), and no tag at all. The drive interface uses that goofy > connector that the late 60s IBM drives standardized on, for talking to > the control units. The boards all have "CMS" stamped on them. Any > ideas? Was CMS, whoever they were, one of the early clone companies? > > -- > Will

14 years, 1 month

RT-11 / RX-01 issues ... "almost" boots ...

by mcsele＠niagaracollege.ca

The original RAM configuration is outlined below. It was used this way, and booted just fine from RK-05's in days gone by. An M7847 with 16KW A Motorola board with 6 rows of 9 4116 chips (for a total of 48KW) A Mostek board with eight rows of 9 4116 chips (for a total of 64KW) The Motorola board was originally set to the lowest 48K, the M7847 after that, and the Mostek for the highest 64KW addresses ... I reconfigured when I checked these out (I lack the actual docs on the Motorola and Mostek boards but there are only eight DIP switches so it was easy enough to guess and just verify the range via the front panel ... bus error when a non-existent address is deposited). I think I goofed on the original size of the Mostek board ... it sports two banks of 4 rows by 9 of 4116 chips (64KBytes each bank). As for the RX11 interface (M7846), I could not find config info except for a photo of a board on the web (checked bitsavers but can't find that board). My jumpers are as follows: V2 V4 V5 V7 N1 A7 A8. All other jumpers are snipped off. Power Supply: after the long-term storage in the garage that was the first thing I checked. Once had a 5V supply put out 7V so I'm paranoid about that now! The 5V and +/- 15V supplies are all good. Cheers .... Mark Professor Mark Csele, P.Eng. Niagara College, Canada 300 Woodlawn Rd., L-23 Welland, ON, L3C 7L3 (905) 735-2211 x.7629 E-Mail: mcsele at niagarac.on.ca URL: http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele Author of "Fundamentals of Light Sources and Lasers", Wiley, 2004 >>> Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> 04/19/11 5:47 PM >>> > > Well, a few more bizarre things to report: > > I tried to disable interrupt sources as suggested. The only one, = > apparently, was the DL11-W SLU/LTC card which was set for both functions. = > The card was reconfigured to be "SLU Only". No change in behaviour. The = > DL11-W console is set for address 177560, vector 60. The console will geneate 2 iterrupt vectors (60 and 64 I think) for transmit and receive. They cannont be set separately, so if the DL11-W is working properly, that's OK. The RX11 will also generate interrupts. What's it set to? > > Next, there are three memory cards: one M7847-DJ (16K*18 MOS, MS11-JP), = > one "Motorola memory systems" card with 48K words, and one "MOSTEK memory = > systems" card with 96K words. Both the two later cards use 4116 DRAM = > chips. Hang on a second. You've got 16Kw + 48Kw + 96kw there. That's 160Kw total. The PDP11/34 (it is an 11/34 IRIC) has 18 bit addressing and can access a total of 128kw. 4Kw are used for the I/O space, so you have have a maximum of 124kw of memory (practically, most memory boards wil lautomatically disable themselves in the I/O space, so you could fit a pair of 64Kw boards, say,m without problems). But with your configuration you must have some locations addressing 2 boards, which is not a good thing. > > Tried to use the M7847-DJ card alone (after all, RT-11SJ should run on = > 16KW of memory). Reconfigured the card address to start at 0 and verified = > that it occupies addresses 000000 to 077777 via the front panel. When the = > machine it turned on, the display reads "054207" (this was not expected). = > Tried booting using the bootstrap on the M9301-YB card: the heads don't = > engage at all and the program halts rapidly displaying "173764" ... = > BIZARRE since that is a non-existent address. Is it? Remeebr the address show is the 16 bit program counter address. If the MMU is disabled (which it will be on power-up, and nothing is going to enable it), addresses starting 16 or 17 are mapped to the I/O space at 76 or 77. So that address is 773764. Which I think is in the bootstrap ROM. > > Next, tried the Motorola memory card which was already configured to start = > at 0. When the CPU is powered-on, displays "000002" on the display. = > Tried to boot the disk, heads engage, a few steps of the disk heads, and = > halts again at "005134". > > Finally, tried the MOSTEK memory card. Reconfigured to start at 0, and = > verified that addresses 000000 through 377777 are occupied by RAM. Powers = > up with a display of 000002 and halts at 005134 when a boot is attempted. > > The system is now stripped during testing, consisting of the following: > Slot 1/2 =3D CPU, Slot 3=3DM7859 Panel interface and M9301-YB bootstrap/ter= > minator, Slot 4=3Dmemory, slot 5&6&7 empty (with a grant continuity card = > in D), slot 8=3DM7856 SLU/LTC, slot 9=3DM9302 at the unibus end and M7846 = > RX-01 interface. That sounds OK. > As I was typing this, had a thought about slots: I recall reading = > something about not putting memory into slot 9. So, I moved the RX-01 = Yes, The reason is that memroy boards are MUD (Modified Unibus Device) boards and take their signals from connectors A,B (this matters on machines like the 11/44 which have a 22 bit address bus, and where the addres lines on A,B are not the same as those on E). Device controllers (SPCs -- Small Peripheral Controller) take their signals from C-F. On slot 9, the A/B conenctors are the Unibus output to the next backplane (or for a terminaotr) and are not qurie the same signals as the ones on an MUD slot. In fact I think on some machines you can short out a power rail by putting an MUD card in the Unibus Out slot or a termintor in an MUD slot. > controller to slot 6 (and moved the grant card in slot 9D). Now, when = > powered-up with the Motorola or Mostek memory cards, displays "000000" but = > otherwise no changes in booting behaviour. When the MS11-JP RAM was = > installed instead, displays "177777" once, "163776" the next time (when = > powered up), and still absolutely nothing when boot is attempted (i.e. no = > heads engaging at all). > > Is there something about RT-11 5.04 that I am not aware-of? An it was = > suggested that there is a difference between the Unibus and Q-Bus boot ... = > any thoughts on that one? =20 I've never heard of that being a problem... > > I can't see memory being the issue anyway: sure, 16KW might be an issue = > (and that card might even be 'flaky'), but the other two cards are large = > enough. Silly question... Whenever I hear of a PDP11 wit flaky memeory I think of the time I was led a merry dance by my 11/45. It turns out the problem ther was power supply related (one ofthe 5V lines was sitting at 4.4V). Have tyoy checked all the power supply voltages with the machine in operation? -tony

14 years, 1 month

Status of Lisa bringup

by snhirsch＠gmail.com

First a question for other Lisa owners: Could an error 10707 result from attempting to startup Lisa Office from a ProFile that was configured while attached to a different machine? I believe there's some sort of node-locking that occurs during installation, but I'm not sure what the symptoms of a mismatch might be. Otherwise, here's the status of my restoration: - Intermittant recognition of keyboard originally blamed on bad 1/4" jack was finally traced down to missing screws on the bottom of the case. With these missing, the front bezel springs out far enough to prevent the keyboard plug from making reliable contact. Never noticed they were gone until I turned it upside down. - Dead keys addressed by cannabilizing a Sun 4 keyboard ($18 eBay purchase). All foam disks replaced, all keys now working. Cleaned up nicely to boot! - Spent some quality time cleaning out the 9-pin mouse connector with Caig cleaner and bent spring contacts in very slightly with jeweler's screwdriver. Now making reliable connection, saving a big hassle trying to get it off the board without damaging anything. - Snarfed diskette drive from the second Lisa, cleaned up mechanism, degreased with PCB flux remover (alcohol, I believe) and performed final lub with a tiny amount of spray silicone. It now passes LisaTest 100% and can boot into MacWorks / Finder 5.0 from one of the ProFiles. The other ProFile has Lisa Office installed, but as noted above it throws an error 10707 after chugging away for a bit. When I use LisaTest to examine the ProFile the ready LED extinguishes, followed by zero apparent activity before the test fails. Steve --

14 years, 1 month

How to thin a collection...

by healyzh＠aracnet.com

I'm wondering how many here have put any real effort or thought into thinning out thier collection, and the question of spares. Last night I started. So far I've been trying to identify dead equipment, and have gotten as far as testing some terminals, and a couple compact Mac's (I've identified a dead Mac Colour Classic). One of the questions that comes to mind is this. How many spares is too many? Also is anyone in the Portland, Oregon area interested in junk I'll be dumping? Local pickup only. I don't know if someone might be interested in things like the dead Mac Colour Classic for parts. I do have a list of a few items I'll be keeping an eye out for that have been promised to a couple list members. Zane

14 years, 1 month

Where does one find small 4:3 LCD screens with composite or S-video input? (Ethan Dicks)

by redodd＠comcast.net

Hello Ethan, Search ebay for Hannspree LCD. They made a bunch of fancy tvs with different shapes like baseballs, Cinderella's carriage, Winnie the Pooh etc. Look for a 9.6 inch one. These are the specs for all of them. These are NTSC. 9.6 LCD Monitor 800 x 600 Resolution Brightness: 350 cd/m? Contrast Ratio: 450:1 Digital Comb Filter 2 Watt + 2 Watt Audio System Connections: 1 S-Video Inputs- 2 Composite Video Inputs- Headphone Jack- 2 Audio Inputs (for Composite/S-Video)- 4-in-1 Connection I took apart a baseball shaped one for a project and the screen has nice brackets around the edges and the video is pretty good. I shopped for a long time until I found one that went for about $30. The prices are usually a litte too high but you may get lucky. They also made some 15 inch models but they didn't have s-video. You can find manuals and info here: http://www.hannspree.com/global/category.aspx?c=288 Ralph

14 years, 1 month

Lisa sighting at Notacon

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> Commercial scan converter that supports a few old school video inputs. It's hard for me to think of as "secret" or "proprietary" an adjustment that was made by a trimpot on a analog TV/CRT and probably even brought out to the front panel (maybe hidden by a little door). So maybe there is some generational difference. Someday a young automotive engineer will, I don't doubt, reinvent the manual choke on the dash and think it's something new :-) Tim.

14 years, 1 month

Teletypes Available @ InfoAge in Wall, NJ USA

by billdeg＠degnanco.com

A large number of ASR 33's, and various other types of Teletypes and other brands are available for purchase. Proceeds go to our clubs' computer museum located at the InfoAge Science Center in Wall, NJ USA. This is the same location as the Vintage Computer Festival planned for this May 14th/15th. Contact me directly if interested with an offer/questions/trades/your contact info. We are a computer history group, we already have enough teletypes for our own use. Some of these look bad on the outside, but most have been found to be serviceable or good for parts at least, just a little dusty and external grime. Shipping is possible but pickup is preferred. Again, all proceeds will go to our museum budget. We need shelves and pallets, book cases, paint, display materials, printing costs, etc. We're not yet a 501C, but I hope we'll have this done by year's end. http://www.midatlanticretro.org/teletypes/ Thanks Bill Degnan V.P. Midatlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists.

14 years, 1 month

ebay: Burroughs/Unisys B26 CPU $0.99

by alanp＠snowmoose.com

I got rid of a large quantity of B2x hardware maybe three years ago. Three CPU slices. Disk slices. Floppy slices. Monitors. Keyboards. Power bricks. Sadly no software (which seems to be the norm - wish I had known - I would have stashed away some copies with me when I left Burroughs/Unisys). I looked all over for a collector to give them to, but found no takers. I eventually put them up on eBay, where the whole lot went for $5 (plus $100+ for actual shipping costs). alan

14 years, 1 month

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test-drb April 2011