On 8/25/10, MikeS <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
> Are you sure that they're PROMs?
>
> They might be Burroughs numbers, but not PROMs (at least not the ones I
> looked up).
>
> For instance:
>
> 1447 3581 7438 4x2 NAND gate
> 1447 3540 7410 3x3 NAND gate
> 1447 3797 9322 4x2to1 MUX
> 2600 1495 7404 6xINV
Hey! I think I've got a tackle box full of stuff like this. One
drawer is marked "3581 '38" for example.
I picked up the tacklebox and the chips from a vendor at Dayton some years ago.
It's loaded with the following part numbers (dates listed are representative):
1447-3532 SN7404N 7909 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/TI)
1447-3524 SN7408N 7650 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/ITT/TI)
1447-3540 7410F 7915 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/ITT)
1447-3565 7420 7907 (Signetics/ITT/TI)
1447-3607 SN7474N 7836 (TI/Fairchild/Signetics)
1447-3615 74107N 7912 (Nat'l Semi/Fairchild/Signetics)
1447-3557 74H11N 7738 (Nat'l Semi/ITT/Signetics)
1447-3581 7438N 7838 (Nat'l Semi/ITT/Signetics)
1447-3797 SN74157 7827 (Nat'l Semi/ITT/TI)
1447-3771 SN74161N 7701 (Nat'l Semi/TI/AMD)
1447-3755 74195 7644 (Signetics/TI/AMD)
1447-3722 74155 7709 (Signetics/TI)
1447-3714 SN74153 7832 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/TI)
... plus a mish-mash in a bin marked "misc"... part numbers include 1447-*
* == 3599, 3706, 3623, 3698, 3789, 3649 and several more
Until this thread, I had no idea the 1447-* numbers were Burroughs.
Is anyone restoring such equipment and looking for spares? My own
interest are such that if I used these anywhere, it'd be to replace
parts gone bad in DEC M-series modules for my PDP-8/i and PDP-8/Ls.
In particular, I'm always hunting for 7474s since those seem to be
favored to fail in the gear I have (along with 7440s, statistically).
Is there a list of these part numbers? The ones I gave happen to be
listed with both the 1447-* numbers _and_ 74-series TTL numbers. The
misc drawer has numerous ones with only 1447-* numbers, and I'd like
to know what's what.
Cheers,
-ethan
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> For a really nice VGA display, check out the PICASO from SparkFun.
> Coupled with a low-end microcontroller, that should give you pretty
> much everything that you need, save for the differential receivers.
...and quite a lot I don't need, like colo(u)r and graphical "primitives" which aren't (drawing rectangles and circles,...), at a somewhat steep price.
> Google "VGA microcontroller" for other ideas.
I'll go looking for "BAS" (VBS) "Microcontroller", too, since that's probably the way I'm wanting to go in the long run (using a cheap portable TV as display), if the controller turns out to be intact after all.
Thanks,
Arno Kletzander
--
GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
Folks,
Does anyone on the list have any of the following DEC PDP-11 printer interface
boards squirreled away?
M8585 LP20 Translation RAM Module
M8586 LP20 Line Printer Control Module
M8587 LP20 Line Printer Data Paths Module
or
M8571 LP20 Line Printer Data Paths Module
Please contact me if you have one or more of these.
Thanks,
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.orghttp://www.PDPplanet.org/http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
--------------Original Message
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:06:37 +0200
From: "Rik Bos" <hp-fix at xs4all.nl>
Subject: PROMS but from what ?
I aquired a lot of small DIL14/16 PROMS ceramic package with a 8 digit
number on it some of the numbers are :
2584 0821
2574 6975
2571 5418
2600 1529
1447 3581
1447 3540
2600 1495
1447 3797
2600 1487
2603 2623
2625 5562
2554 0888
2600 1495
I can't find any reference about them, so if some one recognizes the numbers
or can use them let me know (I've a few hundreds of them)
If no one wants them I'm going to archive them in the big metal bin.
-Rik
-------------------Reply:
Are you sure that they're PROMs?
They might be Burroughs numbers, but not PROMs (at least not the ones I
looked up).
For instance:
1447 3581 7438 4x2 NAND gate
1447 3540 7410 3x3 NAND gate
1447 3797 9322 4x2to1 MUX
2600 1495 7404 6xINV
mike
---------------------Original Message:
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 01:09:00 -0400
From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
Subject: Burroughs parts? (was Re: PROMS but from what ?)
On 8/25/10, MikeS <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
> Are you sure that they're PROMs?
>
> They might be Burroughs numbers, but not PROMs (at least not the ones I
> looked up).
>
> For instance:
>
> 1447 3581 7438 4x2 NAND gate
> 1447 3540 7410 3x3 NAND gate
> 1447 3797 9322 4x2to1 MUX
> 2600 1495 7404 6xINV
Hey! I think I've got a tackle box full of stuff like this. One
drawer is marked "3581 '38" for example.
I picked up the tacklebox and the chips from a vendor at Dayton some years
ago.
It's loaded with the following part numbers (dates listed are
representative):
1447-3532 SN7404N 7909 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/TI)
1447-3524 SN7408N 7650 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/ITT/TI)
1447-3540 7410F 7915 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/ITT)
1447-3565 7420 7907 (Signetics/ITT/TI)
1447-3607 SN7474N 7836 (TI/Fairchild/Signetics)
1447-3615 74107N 7912 (Nat'l Semi/Fairchild/Signetics)
1447-3557 74H11N 7738 (Nat'l Semi/ITT/Signetics)
1447-3581 7438N 7838 (Nat'l Semi/ITT/Signetics)
1447-3797 SN74157 7827 (Nat'l Semi/ITT/TI)
1447-3771 SN74161N 7701 (Nat'l Semi/TI/AMD)
1447-3755 74195 7644 (Signetics/TI/AMD)
1447-3722 74155 7709 (Signetics/TI)
1447-3714 SN74153 7832 (Nat'l Semi/Signetics/TI)
... plus a mish-mash in a bin marked "misc"... part numbers include 1447-*
* == 3599, 3706, 3623, 3698, 3789, 3649 and several more
Until this thread, I had no idea the 1447-* numbers were Burroughs.
Is anyone restoring such equipment and looking for spares? My own
interest are such that if I used these anywhere, it'd be to replace
parts gone bad in DEC M-series modules for my PDP-8/i and PDP-8/Ls.
In particular, I'm always hunting for 7474s since those seem to be
favored to fail in the gear I have (along with 7440s, statistically).
Is there a list of these part numbers? The ones I gave happen to be
listed with both the 1447-* numbers _and_ 74-series TTL numbers. The
misc drawer has numerous ones with only 1447-* numbers, and I'd like
to know what's what.
Cheers,
-ethan
---------------------------Reply:
Have a look at the cross-reference on Bitsavers:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/icData/
and if there are any that you can't find, send me a PM and I'll see what I
can find; I have another list or two but no idea where they came from, as
well as some dead-tree stuff from my days at BBM.
mike
Eric writes:
> Tony Duell wrote:
>> I could trivially desolder the IC, straighten the pin, and solder it
back
>> properly. But should I? What would others do?
> Had we found any problem analogous to that in the PDP-1 restoration,
> where the machine operated correctly despite a manufacturing defect, I'm
> sure we would have had a debate on whether to fix it. I think my own
> opinion in that case would be that we should leave it alone, but tag the
> module (paper tag attached with a short loop of string) and document the
> issue in the system logbook.
> For something that isn't considered a museum artifact, I'd be more
> inclined to fix it.
Whatever happened to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
The ability of a robust assembly and QA process to result in working systems,
despite small manufacturing errors, is remarkable. If the board passed QC
and was released into the wild and is still working decades later, that
is a fact worth noting but I see zero reason to correct it. I don't doubt
anyone's soldering skill but there is still a small and nonzero chance
that any attempted "fix" would result in hassles.
When I was in college decades ago, I got to help a civil engineer who
had tried to build a Heathkit maybe 10 years before that but never got it
working. I looked inside, found a few diodes he had reversed, and said that
was the reason. He looked at me incredulously: "You mean a couple of
incorrectly assembled parts will stop
the whole receiver from working?". Yep. "If we designed bridges that way,
there wouldn't be a single bridge standing in the world!"
Tim.
----------------------Original Message:
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 11:38:45 +0200
From: "Rik Bos" <hp-fix at xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: PROMS but from what ?
<snip>
> I aquired a lot of small DIL14/16 PROMS ceramic package with
> a 8 digit number on it some of the numbers are :
> 2584 0821
...
> -Rik
>
> -------------------Reply:
>
> Are you sure that they're PROMs?
>
> They might be Burroughs numbers, but not PROMs (at least not
> the ones I looked up).
>
> For instance:
>
> 1447 3581 7438 4x2 NAND gate
> 1447 3540 7410 3x3 NAND gate
> 1447 3797 9322 4x2to1 MUX
> 2600 1495 7404 6xINV
>
> mike
>
>
>
Mike,
Thanks, to be honest no I'm not sure.
I was told it were proms and some of the ic's did have labels on them.
When I removed on it was a 74S571J which is a 2K prom.
Do you have a xref list for Burroughs parts or know where I can find one
If any one needs one or more of those let me know.
-Rik
-------------------------Reply:
As Al mentioned, there is a partial list at bitsavers:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/icData/
There may also be more in some of the other manuals, and I have info on some
more as well as a "parts catalogue" that I can't put my fingers on at the
moment.
If you do have some PROMs, I'd think that there's a good chance that they're
already programmed and therefore not very useful (but worth checking JIC).
mike
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:54:39 -0400
From: "Jerome H. Fine" <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to>
Subject: Re: speeding up computers (was Re: Terminals...)
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <4C75BB4F.7050409 at compsys.to>
I have migrated from Netscape 4 email, all the way to Thunderbird3, and
never had a problem with moving the mailfiles. I don't know the details,
but the mailfile format hasn't changed.
I've recently opened some mailfolder from Netscape 4 directly in TBird
2 without a hitch.
I'd suggest going to 2.0.0.24 (or whatever is the most recent version
of the 2 series). I tried TBird3 here at work, and didn't like it for
the way I use it at work. The message folder search function to be specific.
But TBird3 works good for me at home...
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
Registered Linux user number 464583
"From there to here,
From here to there,
Funny things
are everywhere."
--- Dr. Seuss
-----------------Original Message:
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:16:11 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: Simulated telephone
On 2010 Aug 25, at 9:02 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>> If both modems in a given connection are older ('80s), lower-speed
>> (300-1200/2400) it will likely work by simply connecting them together
>> and commanding one off-hook in answer mode (ATA ?), then the other
>> off-hook in originate mode (ATD ? ATH1 ?). I have successfully done
>> this with particular modems up to 14.4Kbps but might be forgetting the
>> commands.
>
> Many of my older modems are from BEFORE "Hayes Compatible" became the
> standard for giving commands to the modem.
Well, I was thinking of adding in that if you have a really old modem
you might have to flip the originate/answer switch appropriately if it
has one, but I think the OP indicated he was dealing with later stuff.
(I have a couple of pre-'smart' modems, too.)
--------------------Reply:
I was going to make the same point; the M100 he mentioned as an example
*does* indeed have an originate/answer switch (as well as a direct
connect/acoustic coupler switch).
I usually don't have any problem just connecting modems together without any
fancy line simulators, etc.
mike
