February 2010 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by root＠parse.com

I have now completed the detailed inventory of the museum. Please see: www.pdp12.org for the extensive list. I will be entertaining offers until Sunday, February the 28th for the entire museum in one lot. Contact me for details at rkrten at gmail.com. I will make a decision Monday, March 1st. Cheers, -RK -- Robert Krten

15 years, 4 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 78, Issue 47

by dm561＠torfree.net

From: Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Solderless breadboarding (and 68010 vs 68000) To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> <snip> >> [1] The local pound shop (a similar concept to dollar stores) was selling >> a camping lamp with 24 white LEDs for a pound. >I'd buy that for a pound! (and repurpose it, as you have). -ethan --------- Check your local Dollar store; I just happen to have a couple of those 24 LED lamps in front of me at this very moment that cost $1.50 ea. (modding and putting them under the kitchen cabinets). Lots of neat stuff in Dollar stores; amazing that they can sell a solar powered/battery backed scientific calculator for $1.00 these days, esp. considering shipping and several middlemen also making a profit... Button cells 5/$1, $7 ea. at the Shack... etc.

15 years, 4 months

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Cross country hauling

by wdonzelli＠gmail.com

Again for 2010, I am crossing the country and am offering to pickup, haul, and deliver large items for list members. In mid/late April, I will be leaving New York, to arrive in California near the start of May, and I will be passing thru Chicago and Denver on the westbound trio, and likely Minneapolis on the eastbound. If business calls, I can hit other cities as well. I will have a van and a trailer, and can take fairly large items, like 6 foot racks. Weight is not much of an issue, with maybe a limit of 1200 pounds or so. Items hauled on my trailer are fully caccooned and tarped. Loading and unloading are included. I use the hauling to pay for my expenses on the trip (mostly fuel), so my rates are quite reasonable. Smaller items are welcome, of course. Some of my capacity is already taken for both the westbound and eastbound sections, but there is plenty of room for more. Also, from Denver to California I will be almost completely empty. Please inquire off list, please. -- Will

15 years, 4 months

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Tubes & Computers of Olden Days

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> > Gene Buckle wrote: >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010, William Donzelli wrote: >> >>> >>> The chances of more tube computers coming out of the woodwork is very, >>> very slim, but it has happened in the past few years. It is actually >>> reasonable to think that someone could have an IBM 650 or Bendix G-15 >>> tucked away in a basement or garage. >>> >> Here's one that last I heard was in service with the RAF: >> >> http://199.254.199.10/BehindTheScenes/lockheed.html >> >> The company that owned it was bankrupted by the training market downturn >> after 9/11. It was sold in 2003. >> > I'm pretty sure Colossus is running again at Bletchley Park. I only > wish I could get over there to see it in person. There are some youtube > videos available. > Later, > Charlie C. To say it is running again is a little bit misleading. A huge amount of work was done by my fellow members of the Computer Conservation Society, including some of the people who designed Colossus in the first place and it is great to have it but Winston Churchill had the Colossi(?) broken up into small bits and so this is a replica, an extraordinarily correct replica but a replica all the same, therefore it is now running, not running again. Apparently they had less problems getting the difficult bits working as the plans had been released from UK government archives, than the off the shelf 'commercial' items, plans of which had long since been lost except for the odd hoarder like me and probably you. Also thing like switches were available off the shelf, with a high priority job they had first call on things and selected Spitfire fighter switches which were then being produced in good quantities and good quality. Roger Holmes

15 years, 4 months

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Deep fried inductor...

by wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net

I've recently been restoring an H8/H17 system. Almost all of the problems involved capacitors, including a bad electrolytic in the H17 (diskette unit) power supply. I repaired the H17 supply using a dummy load but apparently the H17 was run with the bad supply before I got it. I say this because some of the tantalum caps on the logic boards of the Wangco model 82 diskette drives popped and/or burned when correct power was supplied to them. I've seen plenty of the "teardrop" tantalums pop, but I've never seen one of the "black suppository" types (used on these drives) go. I believe this was the result of bad ripple in the supply. Anyway, one of the Wangcos now runs perfectly and the other runs fine for a while but fails after about an hour of applied power. The difference between the two is that, on the flaky drive, a cap in series with an inductor did a slow burn, resulting in the inductor having a "nice brown toasty" appearance and a small split in one side that some red resin leaked from. By the way, the only way I know this is an inductor is that it is labeled "L5". It looks like a large beige resistor with too many color stripes on it. Inductors are a weak area in my electronics knowledge. How would you know for sure that one has failed? Does it fail open? Other info: When the drive fails, it can not read any data and, when seeks are attempted on it, it sounds "funny", not the nice sharp click it makes when operating correctly. The inductor does not feel hot to the touch when the drive has failed. I'm out of cool spray. Tonight I will try to apply an ice cube in a plastic bag to it to see if that gets it out of failure mode. Finally, assuming it is the problem, what do I need to replace it? The stripes on it are: Wide silver (covering one end) Red Yellow Brown Gold Thanks, Bill

15 years, 4 months

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Solderless breadboarding (was: Re: HP-IB, Amigo/cs80 was Re: hp 9153 floppy & disk)

by joachim.thiemann＠gmail.com

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 13:49, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > The main problem is that those breadboard are terrible. It's not the > clock speed that matters, it's the swtiching time of the IC. Most modern > ICs have ouptus that switch so fast that when you combine them with the > stray capacitances on the breadboard and the relatively high impedance > power connections, you get power and ground lines bouncing all over the > place. Without a _good_ 'scope it's impossible to know why your circuit > doesn't work. If you stick to 4000 series CMOS you'll be alright, but > modern 74xxx familes are pushing it. Really pushing it. But if you're just learning high speed don't matter, even with full computer prototypes. Incidentally, I just saw this: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2010/02/building_a_cpm_68k_computer_from_s… Crazy, but I'm cheering for him! Retrotastic! :-) Joe. -- Joachim Thiemann :: http://www.tsp.ece.mcgill.ca/~jthiem

15 years, 4 months

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Mountain View, CA

by mcguire＠neurotica.com

Is there anyone in or near Mountain View, CA who would be willing to pick up a light PC-tower-sized box and ship it to me? If so, please contact me off-list. Thanks, -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

15 years, 4 months

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BBC S.E. news classic computer feature

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

I'll keep this short, if you are in S.E. England my 1962 mainframe will be on BBC S.E. regional news somewhere between 6:30 and 7pm.

15 years, 4 months

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cctech Digest, Vol 78, Issue 24

by jonas＠otter.se

> Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:33:58 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: HP-IB, Amigo/cs80 was Re: hp 9153 floppy & disk > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Message-ID: <m1NhU7P-000J43C at p850ug1> > Content-Type: text/plain > > some of them may even end up as products :-( I am sure I've told you > how > I once showed a so-called designer who wanted to use a microcontrolelr > module + input interface modules + ... as part of a control system that > his problem could be solved using few lengths of wire and otherwise > unused contacts on his relays and swithces. Hmmm... > > -tony > I used to work for Volvo, developing the maps for ECUs for engine control. One of my colleagues wanted a simple indicator showing the injection time, i.e. for how many milliseconds each engine revolution the injectors were open, to see how his mapping was working out in practice when test driving. He asked for help from the electronics lab, who came up with a proposal for a digital display, all-singing, all-dancing precision device which would cost $$$$$, come in a nice 19" case and take months to design. He went off and made his own indicator instead, using a 555, a moving-coil meter and some passive components. Quite a number of his devices were built for everybody else in the department, IIRC. /Jonas

15 years, 4 months

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Living Computer Museum attending the DEC Legacy Event, Windermere, UK, 17-18 April 2010

by RichA＠vulcan.com

Just wanted to let the European readers of CCtalk know that Ian King and I will be at the DEC Legacy Event in Windermere in April, and have been invited to give a presentation on the work we are doing at the Living Computer Museum. Details on the event are available at http://declegacy.org.uk We're looking forward to meeting lots of people there. Rich Alderson Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer Vulcan, Inc. 505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900 Seattle, WA 98104 mailto:RichA at vulcan.com mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org http://www.PDPplanet.org/ http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

15 years, 4 months

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Northstar Horizon and RCA COSMAC Stuff

by brain＠jbrain.com

I've put two Northstar boards on eBay for those who care: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290404578135 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290404577525 And, I've got the following documents that simply need a good home for the cost of shipping: * Original PMMI MM-103 Modem Manual * Copy of Horizon Parallel to Centronics Parallel Cable diagram from Northstar Computers * Bunch of Information from Jay Sage on Z-System he sent me. * Copies of HRAM Original Schematics (Rev A and C) * Northstar 16K RAM Board original manual (RAM-16-DOC) Rev2 Preferably a home with someone who will ensure they are scanned if not already. I also have two COSMAC docs free for cost of shipping: * Copy of MB-604B RCA COSMAC Microboard Computer CDP18S604B * Copy of 1802 datasheet (it's a fax, so it's not a great example, but it's an RCA document, and I could not find a softcopy online) If you know some of these are available as softcopy, please let me know, so I don't feel bad if no one takes them and I end up trashing them. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations (X) brain at jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! Home: http://www.jbrain.com

15 years, 4 months

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VAX graphics

by bqt＠softjar.se

Richard <legalize at xmission.com> wrote: > > In article <e1d20d631002151910m2cdf9866u4129242000590de6 at mail.gmail.com>, > William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes: > >>> The VT102 User Guide on vt100.net shows that you could get a green >>> antiglare filter: <http://www.vt100.net/docs/vt102-ug/chapter10.html> >> It is also reasonable to think that DEC did a run of VT100oids with green tub > es. > > I think he's right though. In documentation I've read through, there > were green and amber models offered for the successive generations but > I don't recall having read that the VT100 or earlier models had > anything other than the white phosphor. I think that is correct. I've never seen, nor heard of anything but white phosphor VT100s. *However*, there were clones made by other companies (unfortunately I don't remember any names here), which looked pretty much exactly like the VT100, and which did come with green phosphor. Johnny

15 years, 4 months

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COMBOARD (MC68000) hardware hacking (was Re: Solderless breadboarding)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 2/18/10, Jim Brain <brain at jbrain.com> wrote: > On 2/18/2010 3:58 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: >> P.S. - this project revives, yet again, my occasional interest in >> hacking a COMBOARD into something less "embedded" - I usually get >> stuck at the same stage - whether to hack in a 5380 SCSI chip or a >> TTL-based "IDE" interface. COMBOARDs have serial, but no "disk", so >> they'd need _something_ (they already have between 32K and 2MB of RAM, >> depending on the model - I have piles of working boards with 128K of >> DRAM and a COM5025 USART, smaller piles of other models). >> > Send me one and I'll hack in an SD interface complete with FAT support > :-) Heck, I could even put it on the serial port, if you didn't want to > hack it in. I'll go see what I can dig out of the bin - I can easily throw the Fluke 9010A on one and ensure the RAM and ROM test out OK. It's harder to test out the bus interface, but unless you plan to stick this on a Unibus, I don't think you care if the 8641s are all 100% known-good. ;-) The basic board is 8MHz 68000, 128K of parity DRAM (array of 4164 DIPs) on a 74S409 DRAM controller, 2x 28-pin JEDEC ROM sockets (2764s at least, if not 27128s), a socketed COM5025 which could be a good place to tap into the data bus and some select lines, an MC6821 with a 16-pin DIP exporting at least one of the 8-bit ports ("programmers' interface"), some sort of sub-100Hz timer, IIRC, for heartbeat interrupts, two 40-pin off-board BERG connectors (one for sync serial, one for LP05-type printer, driven by the rest of the MC6821), and 12 edge-visible power and status LEDs (mostly serial status indicators). I'd send you a link to a picture, but I don't seem to have posted one (and the salad days of Software Results pre-date the Web). It's a hex-height card that expects to pull +5V, +15V and -15V of of the Unibus, so you'd have to either plug it into a DEC module block or hack in power somewhere. Naturally, I have all the schematics and PAL equations, but they are in paper format, not electronic. Overall, my recollection is that the memory space is divided by A23 and A22 into four 4MB quadrants, RAM, ROM, I/O, and Unibus DMA engine. Retooling PALs could, of course, alter that. Unfortunately, the PALs are not always socketed (depends on the age of the board) and it's a six-layer PCB. I know of no reason PALs couldn't be replaced with 16V8 and 22V10 GALs, but it hasn't ever been tried. Still interested? -ethan P.S. - the other models are variations on the theme. The older model has 32K of 2114 SRAMs and two 6309 PROM sockets, newer models (of which I have only a handful) have 41256 or 44256 DRAMs and Z8530 DUARTs, but are otherwise quite similar architecturally, if you ignore the specifics of the host bus interface.

15 years, 4 months

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Device Side usb floppy interface finally shipping ($55)

by aek＠bitsavers.org

http://www.deviceside.com/ talked to this guy at VCF years ago.

15 years, 4 months

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COMBOARD (MC68000) hardware hacking (was Re: Solderless breadboarding)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 2/18/10, Henk Gooijen <henk.gooijen at hotmail.com> wrote: > I have no experience with SCSI chips... No harder to wire up than a UART or PIA/VIA, but the rest is all software to create/interpret the SCSI packets. > but the software to read and write a sector of an IDE disk is simple enough. I've written low-level driver code for IDE manipulation on a GG2 Bus+ equipped Amiga. > A TTL-based interface would > take not much time. 16 bit data (may need buffering) and a few address > decoding gates is probably all you need to hook up an IDE drive. Address decoding gates might not even be required - I have full schematics for this board (I used to make them commercially) and have the PAL equations for the memory map PALs. I think it could be as easy as buffers and a PAL swap (plus software). I just flip-flop between SCSI and IDE and never get started. -ethan

15 years, 4 months

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Soldering (Was: Re: HP-IB, Amigo/cs80 ... )

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 15:26 -0600 2/17/10, Tony wrote: >What I don;t get is _why_ there's this aversion to soldering. I get it. Fumes requiring ventilation, molten metal, temperatures that can sear flesh or melt most plastics, the appearance if not fact of irreversability (and in fact, it's not hard to do damage to the circuit board that is hard to repair). Like bicycling, cooking, and a host of other activities, it's a very productive and useful skill to have, and seems to those who have the skill to be trivial to learn - but to those without the skill, it's intimidating (partly because there is some potential for damage if it's done wrong). I think this is a good case where mentoring or tutoring would *really* help people who have not done it to "get their feet wet", and have the confidence to do more on their own. -- - Mark 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

15 years, 4 months

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Printronix

by jws＠jwsss.com

There is a load of printronix printers, and parts coming off service in St. Louis Mo P300 P600 I suspect, if anyone is interested please email me, and I'll pass it along. There is at least one QMS board equipped system involved from what I have been told. Inventory can be made if interest is there. Jim

15 years, 4 months

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hp 9153 floppy & disk

by hp-fix＠xs4all.nl

-----Original Message----- From: e.stiebler <emu at e-bbes.com> Sent: 10 februari 2010 ?. 02:27 To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: hp 9153 floppy & disk Tony Duell wrote: > THe Nighthawk drive interface is strange. Very strange. it has the raw > data signals of an ST412 drive (but on single-ended TTL lines, not > differential pairs). It also hasa the strangest positioner interface > you're likely to see. The positioner is a 2-winding stepper motor. You > get (at the drive interface) to contrtoll the currents through the > windings (there's a dual DAC in the drive).You also get soem kind of > position feedback signal from the drive (there's an ADC in there too). > There is no intellegence in the drive to control te DACs based on the > output from the ADC, that is done in the controller (I assume in part by > the 6809 firmware). > > Given there's an undocumented ASIC in the drive too, which has a register > accessible over the interface, and for whaich I have no data, tryign to > recreate the drive is going to be a big job. So, what you're saying is, that I should get myself a microcontroller with an sd-flash and start programming Amigo/CS80 ? And simply forget about the box I have here ? ;-) Cheers You could use HPDIR with a sbc with hp-ib and a flash drive. I'm building one with a Kontron SBC. -Rik

15 years, 4 months

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Tango Schematic capture, PCB layout and autorouting programs

by cj7285＠comcast.net

I read a message that you posted at some time or another and got your email from it I am in desperate need of some tango pcb info I have an old copy of tango pcb installed on my comp and some old layouts I desperately need to access/modify I have lost my dongle. Can you tell me where I might purchase one? Or even better: I understand they just shorted some pins on a parallel port connector, any idea what the pinout is? My name is Carl Hesse. I am in denver colorado I would pay reasonably well for pinout info What this means is that I just need to know which pins are shorted or "common" on the dongle any desire to help?

15 years, 4 months

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Looking for Aztec C

by silvercreekvalley＠yahoo.com

Does anyone have a copy of Aztec C for the Apple // that they wouldnt mind selling. Looking for an original copy. Please reply off list. Thanks! Ian

15 years, 4 months

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book conservation info: slightly off topic

by useddec＠gmail.com

I am not saying that any of my books are rare, and that is not the point of this, but I do want to preserve them. Most are non-fiction, some are from the 1800's, and a few were piblished by MIT. After being in storage for a few years during rebuilding, some have mold and or dirt on them. I wanted to clean them properly, and contacted the Rare Book Library at The University of Illinois. They were kind enough to send me the following links. I have not read through all of them yet, but I thought this might be useful to some list members Hello, XXXXXX asked that I send you a list of resources to aid you in your conservation needs. The following sites offer comprehensive and easy-to-follow guides: http://www.nps.gov/history/museum/publications/conserveogram/04-09.pdf http://www.nps.gov/history/museum/publications/conserveogram/03-04.pdf http://www.mnhs.org/preserve/conservation/bookspaper.html http://www.conservation-us.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.viewPage&pageId=49… http://www.loc.gov/preserv/familytreasures/ http://www.nedcc.org/resources/resources.php This is extremely in-depth and may be above and beyond what you are looking for: http://cool.conservation-us.org/coolaic/sg/bpg/pcc/12_mold-fungi.pdf Thanks, Paul

15 years, 4 months

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Teaching soldering skills

by marvin＠west.net

> On 2/17/10, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >> From trying to teach soldering, the >>> >> unforgiving nature leads to student frustration. >> > >> > I am suprised. I've taught dozens of people to solder over the years, and >> > every one had success within half an hour. > > More particularly, I've taught several people over the past few months > how to solder at a few workshops. I've had mixed results. All were > enthusiastic, but not all were, in the old vernacular, "mechanically > inclined". A friend of mine was a 3rd grade teacher, and one or two of us would go in and help them build code practice oscillators. We really didn't have much trouble with solder joints after we showed them how to preheat the joint and apply the solder. The biggest problem at first was getting them to touch the tip to the joint long enough to heat it to the point the solder would melt when applied. The second biggest problem was getting them to realize that the color codes on the resistors actually meant something as to where they were inserted :).

15 years, 4 months

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Teaching soldering skills (was Re: HP-IB, Amigo/cs80)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 2/17/10, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> From trying to teach soldering, the >> unforgiving nature leads to student frustration. > > I am suprised. I've taught dozens of people to solder over the years, and > every one had success within half an hour. More particularly, I've taught several people over the past few months how to solder at a few workshops. I've had mixed results. All were enthusiastic, but not all were, in the old vernacular, "mechanically inclined". What would probably have helped is an aspect of the workshop that was specifically soldering instruction, not kit assembly, with easy to reach and easy to inspect widely spaced joints. What we had at our disposal was a few joints on 0.1" boards - either a made-in-class PCB (not my design, or I'd have made the pads bigger which would have helped) or a factory-made strip-board (Lilypad prototyping board) that was soldered to after the web of interconnections were cut to route the signals. All of the students learned *something* about soldering, but even after 90 minutes and several attempts, the success rate (good joints) was probably between 50%-66%. I had to retouch a number of joints to get the projects working during the class period. More practice would have obviously been beneficial. -ethan

15 years, 4 months

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Long persistence tube for vt100

by emu＠e-bbes.com

Hi all, any source for a replacement tube for a vt100 type terminal ? Specially, a long persistence phosphor type (vt640, retro graphics) ? Cheers

15 years, 4 months

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CP/M for LNW-80

by alhartman＠yahoo.com

I have an LNW-80 Model I. If my memory is correct, this unit will run CP/M. Can anyone confirm that? And, if so... Can someone point me to where I can get disk images? Thanks! Al Keansburg, NJ

15 years, 4 months

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Tubes (was OT: Televisions)

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

> That's a pile of random loktals. What I'm talking about is a set of the > five tubes called for in an All-American-Five design. I might have to > rewire this thing for regular octals. 14Q7, 14A7, 14B6, 50A5, 35Y4? All easily available at any of the places that have a broad stock of tubes. e.g. ESRC, Antique Electronic Supply, etc. One of my specialties is the loctal Zentih Transoceanic (8G005) which some describe as rare but really they're as common as dirt. I was surprised that many of the stocks of loctal tubes are recentish (60's, 70's) Eastern European production - I had always thought of loctals as a Philco thing of the 40's. The business sense in dealing with something that hasn't been made in decades (or indeed more than half a century) is contrary to most business rules of thunb. To have a profitable resale business as a rule of thumb you have to be able to turn your inventory over several times a year. Anything not sold after a few months has to be slashed in price or simply thrown out to make room for the new stuff. The tube resellers have to work differently - their stock is already decades old. It's not a business I'm in but I can appreciate some of the challenges. I think the business world of tubes has seen some tumultousness recently, what with the US Govt unloading huge stockpiles of many tubes and the de- nationalization of Eastern European/Russian factories, but may be stabilizing a bit. Tim.

15 years, 4 months

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help navigating the DECUS archive

by nigel.d.williams＠gmail.com

Does anyone have experience navigating the DECUS archive at digiater.nl? Under this directory: http://digiater.nl/openvms/decus/vax000/ is this file: 11spp_87.001 which contains this reference: 11-SP-42 Symposium Tape from the RSTS SIG, Spring 1980, Chicago Version: Spring 1980 Does the archive contain the contents of this tape? I would rather not have to download the large 500MB+ ZIPs to find the needle in the haystack and I am not sure I understand how the "indexing" scheme works. I looked in here: http://digiater.nl/openvms/decus/zips_unix_attributes/ but I cannot match these files with those listed under /vax000/ Any tips or directions would be appreciated. thanks, nigel. www.retroComputingTasmania.com

15 years, 4 months

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[comp.sys.dec] BASIC-Plus-2

by nigel.d.williams＠gmail.com

On Tue Feb 16 11:56:45 CST 2010, Dave McGuire wrote: > That's it...worked like a champ. Thank you Dave, that worked for me too; applying your tips might now allow us to try some of the other layered products (C and COBOL - although I notice the C TAP has a AUTOIN.COM file for auto-install so I suppose we invoke that, much like the F77 install). I used BP2 V2.6, only because I understood that version was intended for RSTS/E V9.6 - I will try BP2 V2.7 and see if it is stable on V9.6. I am still to discover which of the TAPs of RSTS/E V9.7 are worth trying. One surprise I encountered though on rebooting RSTS/E, BASIC/BP2 throws an error: $ basic/bp2 ?Unable to attach to resident library ?Can't find file or account I fixed this by executing these two commands (found in BP2INS.CMD): $ INSTALL/LIBRARY/NOADDRESS B26SHR $ INSTALL/LIBRARY/NOADDRESS B26SH1 Then $ BASIC/BP2 works again. So it is usual RSTS/E practice to add the install/library commands to [0,1]START.COM to "permanently" add the layered product to RSTS/E? I expected the install process to do this for me.

15 years, 4 months

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help navigating the DECUS archive

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Sorry, I do not have 11SP42. I think I had it confused in my head with 11SP47 (GCE's Portacalc of course). Lots of the SIG symposia tapes are a kind of "best of" collection with contents repeated or improved from year to year. Is there something specific you need from 11SP42? If so it's probably on some other DECUS tape I can help you find. Tim.

15 years, 4 months

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OT: Televisions

by marvin＠west.net

> Is there a good source for these things (the TVs and the tubes) > today? I imagine people threw them away mostly. If these are > difficult to find and/or maintain, I've considered trying to create a > replica console television from a newer set, maybe even something > with an LCD in it. I'd probably prefer an original though. brian You can try thrift stores although the ones out here in California tend not to take them anymore. You can also check with a TV repair place as they tend to get questions from people about what to do with their old sets.

15 years, 4 months

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OT: Datasheet for Motorola MCM62940 32K X 9 SRAM?

by trag＠io.com

Chuck Guzis wrote: >On 12 Feb 2010 at 15:30, Jeff Walther wrote: >> Anyone have a datasheet for the MCM62940 (MCM62940AFN14) static RAM? >> It's not strictly off topic, as it's from the 256K level 2 cache of a >> computer from the mid-90s (NuBus PPC Macintoshes). > Apparently, the MCM62486 is pin compatible and there are datasheets > for that online: > http://pdf.chinaicmart.com/86B/MCM62486BFN11_1159896.pdf > --Chuck Thanks you for the information, Chuck. They should be very similar. I imagine the difference is that the XX486 version has adaptations for the 80486 methods of addressing memory, while the 940 version is more oriented for the Motorola family of processors. At least, I think I read something to that effect somewhere--maybe in the description of the associated tag RAM. Anyway, I've emailed Brent and hope to pay to ship the whole databook. If anyone else decides they want to order the 4000 soldered down static RAMs I referenced (they have 19 batches in stock), I can scan the datasheet after I have the book--if I can get the scanner working again. Darned glass fell out because the manufacturer's double sided tape got old (it's more than 10 years old too). I tried a 3M tape <http://www.shop3m.com/3m-high-performance-double-coated-tape-9088-fl3znfcqj…> that looked promising but it didn't hold. I'm going to try again and heat the tape and give it three days to set. On the first try I didn't see the information that the adhesive needs to set for three days. Who knew that one needs to read the datasheet on *adhesive tape* in order to use it properly? Jeff Walther

15 years, 5 months

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VAX graphics

by bqt＠softjar.se

Pontus Pihlgren <pontus at Update.UU.SE> wrote: > Hi All. > > I just stumbled upon this video of a computer tablet: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPC_w9yYe5M > > They show a VAX-11/780 with RP06 and TU70 (I think) and claim its doing > the graphics. But I'm curious, what terminal and software is used? Does > anyone have a clue? Nice stuff. Interesting to see the speculations of people around here. The tape drive is a TU77 or TU78, which you should know Pontus... ;-) My guess would be a TU77 though. Anyway, no, the graphics is not DEC. And no, it's not a serial connection. If you ever tried doing bitmap graphics over a serial line you should all realize that a high resolution picture like that would take a very long time to download over a serial line, even at 19200. And by 1986 you didn't have any faster serial ports on a Unibus-machine. Also, DEC didn't have any high-resolution hardware for Unibus. The closes was the VS11, VS60 and that kind of stuff. And those don't get close to the type of resolution, number of colors, or speed of this thing. DEC did play with a few tablets for the VAX stations by this time, but hadn't come that far. So, yes, this is a third party thing. The two companies that springs to my mind here are Intergraph, who did CAD systems based on VAXen. They usually based their systems on the VAX-11/750, but I don't think there was any technical reason that an 11/780 shouldn't be possible as well. The other is Evans and Sutherland, who specialized in high performance graphic subsystems. My guess would be that this was some E&S graphic system, but it's hard to tell, since I never actually saw any of their stuff in real life. But I think it was/is a whole bunch of cards on the Unibus, and video cables to a color monitor. And of course input ports for keyboard and tablet. There might have been other players around as well. But I know of no DEC hardware that could produce better than aboout 256x256 on Unibus machines, and only with a very limited palette. And it's definitely not a VT-whatever. The "best" VT-terminal, in terms of graphic is the VT340, which have a fair resolution of about 240x800 (roughly from memory), but at most 16 colors, out of a palette of 4096. But it's also newer than 1986, and don't look like that at all. Johnny -- Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at softjar.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

15 years, 5 months

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Fwd: [comp.sys.dec] BASIC-Plus-2

by nigel.d.williams＠gmail.com

Has anyone managed to get any of the Layered Products installed on RSTS/E V9.X (X >= 6)? Aside from F77 for which there was a declaration of success here: http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/pipermail/simh/2008-March/001719.html I tried with BASIC Plus 2 V2.6 (with RSTS/E 9.6) and can see that the tape appears to be a BACKUP INSTAL.BCK set, but RESTORE is refusing to work with the tape (TPC file). Does anyone happen to have the BP2 installation guide or tips on how the layered products are generally installed on RSTS/E? A related question: Can anyone explain what a field-test versions of RSTS/E means? is it a release candidate (in modern parlance) or a beta? I see RSTS/E V10 but it is annotated with field-test so I assume it was not the final shipping version. thanks. www.retroComputingTasmania.com

15 years, 5 months

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help navigating the DECUS archive

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

I have several of the DECUS sig tapes as images, and also extracted files. I think 11SP42 is one of them. Like most of the 70's and 80's post-paper-tape RSTS stuff it's a DOS-11 style magtape. Will put it up on ftp.trailing-edge.com<ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com> tonight. Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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Separating a Vax 11/780 from it's peripheral cabinet...

by ian_primus＠yahoo.com

Anyone happen to know how the Vax 11/780 and the single-wide corporate peripheral cabinet are joined together? The Vax has good casters, the peripheral cabinet has stupid casters, and they're joined at the hip. Are there hidden bolts or latches, or some kind of joiner panel like on the 11/750? -Ian

15 years, 5 months

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Docs found: Some docs scanned

by hachti＠hachti.de

Hi folks, I arranged to get one of those office machines that do everything. And scanned a box of documents. This is how it looks when I use it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70m0ZdcFOuE If anybody has some money to help me funding my copy machine - please let me know..... It cost me most of what I could spend at the moment. I uploaded the documents to: http://pdp8.hachti.de/newscan/box1 Feel free to take what's needed and archive it. My files will not stay there for forever! Here's a list of the box1 directory: ************************************ > hachti at sumpf64:~/scanner/ready/box1$ ls * > ampex: > 5104036-10 TM-2 Technical Manual for Siemens+Halske April 1965 .pdf > > cdc: > 41247200 Rev. B 9465 Disk Storage Drive Maintenance Manual.pdf 41248800 Rev. D 9465 Disk Storage Drive Schematics.pdf > > dartmouth_dtss: > 20100212100751305.pdf 20100212101335486.pdf > > emulex: > CD1151007 Rev. B CS11_F1 Technical Manual.pdf > > facit: > PE1000 Technical Description, German.pdf UP631001 FACIT PE 1000 Paper Tape Reader Spare Parts.pdf > UP630201 FACIT PE 1000 Paper Tape Reader Manual.pdf > > honeywell: > BJ67A Rev. 1 Series 600_6000 FORTRAN Addendum A.pdf > BJ67 Rev. 1 Series 600_6000 FORTRAN Manual.pdf > BP82 Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Biomedical (BMD) Statistical Programs Reference Manual.pdf > BS06 Rev. 1 Series 600_6000 Jovial Language Manual.pdf > BS11A Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Algol Addendum A.pdf > BS11 Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Algol Manual.pdf > D43A Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applicatons Library Guide I - Mathematics, Addendum A.pdf > D43 Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applicatons Library Guide I - Mathematics.pdf > DA44A Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applications Library Guide II - Statistics, Addendum A.pdf > DA44 Rev. 0 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applications Library Guide II - Statistics.pdf > DA45A Rev. 2 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applications Library Guide III - Industry, Addendum A.pdf > DA45B Rev. 2 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applications Library Guide III - Industry, Addendum B.pdf > DA45 Rev. 2 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applications Library Guide III - Industry.pdf > DA64 Rev. 1 Series 600_6000 Time-Sharing Applications Library Guide IV - Business+Finance.pdf > > plessey: > PM-TC11 Drawing Package.pdf > > xerox: > 190572C Rank Xerox extended Algol-60 Language and Operations Reference Manual.pdf > 191692A Xerox Universal Time-Sharing System (UTS) Users Guide.pdf > 900907E Xerox Control-Program-Five (CP-V) Time-Sharing Reference Manual.pdf > 901677A-1(9-71) Xerox FORTRAN Debug Package (FDP) Revision Package.pdf > 901677A Xerox FORTRAN Debug Package (FDP) Reference Manual.pdf > 901733C Sigma 9 Computer Reference Manual.pdf > 901765A Xerox Operating System (XOS) Batch Processing Reference Manual.pdf > hachti at sumpf64:~/scanner/ready/box1$ du -h > 41M ./facit > 396M ./xerox > 511M ./honeywell > 123M ./plessey > 124M ./ampex > 32M ./emulex > 146M ./cdc > 110M ./dartmouth_dtss > 1,5G . ****************************** Best wishes, Philipp -- http://www.hachti.de

15 years, 5 months

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Docs found: Some docs scanned

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> > From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > Subject: Re: Docs found: Some docs scanned > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <4B7842F7.5080001 at bitsavers.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > On 2/14/10 10:04 AM, Philipp Hachtmann wrote: > >> ampex: 5104036-10 TM-2 >>> Technical Manual for Siemens+Halske April 1965 .pdf > > > That will make the B-205 fans happy. > The TM-2 manual has been difficult to find. When it eventually appears on BitSavers it will be interesting to compare with the half inch (TM4) version I have. Could you please tell me (or the list) when it goes up. Roger Holmes.

15 years, 5 months

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OT Pioneer Video disc equipment

by tpeters＠mixcom.com

At 05:19 PM 2/15/2010 -0500, you wrote: >On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Tom Peters <tpeters at mixcom.com> wrote: > > A friend is selling her laser disc stuff as she's moving out of state soon. > > Info is below; please pass this along to others and contact Carol directly > > if you are interested. > >Could you at least say out of which state? > >-ethan I do apologize. The posting was originally to a much smaller audience who could safely assume Southeastern Wisconsin. When owner asked me to post it, I should have edited it more carefully. This equipment is in the Milwaukee metro area. ----- 324. [Philosophy] If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intent of doing you good, you should run for your life. --"Thoreau's Law" --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixcom.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531

15 years, 5 months

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OT Pioneer Video disc equipment

by tpeters＠mixcom.com

A friend is selling her laser disc stuff as she's moving out of state soon. Info is below; please pass this along to others and contact Carol directly if you are interested. LASER DISC PLAYER AND DISC COLLECTION FOR SALE I have a Pioneer Compact Disc/Laservision Player, CLD-909 w/Digital Sound which plays compact disc (cd) and both 8" and 12" laser discs. I have about 50 laser discs - Disney (Snow White, Bambi, Aladdin, Sleeping Beauty), allot of Monty Python series & movies, classics like Cassablanca, African Queen, The Marx Brothers, Terminator 2, ET, Unforgiven, Prizi's Honor, Battle of the Bulge, TWO Looney Tunes anthologies/sets, Airplane, Jewel of the Nile, Back to the Future, Goonies, Labrynth, Naked Gun 2 1/2, A Fish Called Wanda, Last of the Mohicans, Cocoon, Untouchables, Moonraker, Wayne's World, Neighbors, Hunt for the Red October, The Pink Panther; Planes, Trains & Automobiles; Return of the Jedi, ... I would like $250 cash for the entire collection & the player. Everything is in good order, has always been stored properly, so that's a great price/value. I am packing for a move so I need to sell this by Feb. 21st/Feb. 22nd. Thank you! Carol A. Roen carol.roen at att.net ----- 177. [Commentary] "Television is a medium because it is neither rare nor well done." --Fred Friendly, former head of CBS News --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB: http://www.mixcom.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531

15 years, 5 months

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What's the point? [was RE: Manual scanning: TIFF-to-PDF software with greyscale support?]

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Rich wrote: > Tim wrote: >> PDF's are fundamentally a VECTOR format. A vector format designed around >> typography where the most natural unit since long before computers has been >> the point (=1/72 inch). > Technically, 100/7227 inch, which is to say, there are 72.27 points per inch > in typography prior to the creation of the Macintosh. (I don't believe that > Postscript originally used a 1/72 measure, and TeX certainly didn't, so I can't > just say "non-computerized typography".) I'm pretty sure when I learned typography the numbers I was taught was that Cicero was 6 lines to the inch, and that it was a 12 point font. Maybe neither of those numbers are actually correct. That was all before I had used computers although I think it's possible that Postscript was a glimmer in someone's eye by that point. I briefly used an IBM Composer and I'm pretty sure that defined a point = 1/72 inch before postscript ever did, although it seems likely that it didn't originate the 1/72 measure either. Most computer line printers were six lines to the inch, 66 lines to 11 inch page. This was set by geartrain if nothing else :-). I think the Model 33 is the same. > If you think *this* mailing list goes off-topic from time to time, you should > check out the Letpress mailing list, for metal type and ink folks. Knuth's Metafont book closely brought together for me, for the first time, computers and typography, and they've been closely linked for me ever since. I could've sword that I read that a point = 1/72 inch in there but despite some desparate scouring he uses "point" as base unit with absolutely no attempt to map it into inches. Tim.

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Manual scanning: TIFF-to-PDF software with greyscale support?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> Thanks for the lesson, but I am quite aware of those points already and > I was pretty clear when I posted and said that my source documentation > was a raster image. I'm using PDF for ease of distribution. > Also, I object to the redefinition of "100% zoom" in Acrobat Reader, > which was the source of my confusion last night. I was looking for > confirmation that this is indeed the behavior that PDF viewers have. I wasn't really trying to be pedantic. If you really want tools that natively and in the user interface constantly refer back to pixels in the original scan, then you really have to stick to formats that are innately raster based. TIFF, PNG, etc. I maintain my scanned images as PNG's. I used to have a real hatred for PDF's as a way of showing raster bitmaps but have learned to respect my enemy in this case :-). (Incidentally I am still a big fan of SVG despite Adobe's abandonment of it.) I think at least some of the TIFF formats can contain tags for how large each pixel was in the original source. Don't know how standard vs proprietary these tags are. Good multi-page PDF viewers are freely available. The free, distributed with the OS, TIFF viewers by contrast are perhaps even suckier than they were a decade ago. Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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Manual scanning: TIFF-to-PDF software with greyscale support?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> When I say 'Zoom 100%', I expect each bit of my image to be displayed > with no scaling. Well, Acrobat Reader doesn't work that way. AR > assumes screen resolution, so what was a 400 dpi bitmap at 100% zoom on > AR gets downsampled to 72dpi for display purposes. To get back to see > individual pixels you have to zoom to 555% or something nutty like that. > > I tried it and it looks like all of my pixels are there. Can anybody > else confirm this (bad) behavior? Bad? PDF's are fundamentally a VECTOR format. A vector format designed around typography where the most natural unit since long before computers has been the point (=1/72 inch). PDF documents, it so happens, can include bitmap images at arbitrary scalings. Vector formats natively have NO KNOWLEDGE of a pixel and in fact when you include a bitmap image in a PDF (which is kinda bastardized because it does have some actually quite thorough bitmap support) it can be scaled so that a pixel in the bitmap is any arbitrary size in number of points. If there was any "bad behavior" it may have been... Adobe putting support in PDF's for bitmaps? Most current display devices just happen to be raster formats showing bitmaps, but my gut feeling is that this shortcoming will be corrected and we will go back to vector display devices Real Soon Now. How soon? In fact I'm going to go use my Tek 4014 right now :-) Tim.

15 years, 5 months

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HP DraftMaster MX Plotter User's Guide and SX,RX & MX Plus version

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

I can't remember who wanted them but I have the HP DraftMaster MX Plotter User's Guide and theHP DraftMaster Plotter SX Plus, ,RX Plus and MX Plus User's Guide if you still need them. Covers everything from loading paper through serial communications setup to command set and even 8 types of power cords.

15 years, 5 months

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Manual scanning: TIFF-to-PDF software with greyscale support?

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, I'm after a program that can convert TIFF files into PDFs. I've seen Eric Smith's "Tumble" app, which works great... but only for B&W TIFFs. While I can use Imagemagick to convert the images to B&W, that defeats the point: there are photos on the scanned pages, and I'd rather like to keep them as photos, not black splodges. Also, has anyone come up with a "best practice guide" for manual scanning? At the moment I'm scanning like this: B&W text only: 600dpi, black and white, threshold=50%. Text + photos: 600dpi, greyscale, then despeckle and scale down to 300dpi. Obviously if there are better ways (in terms of quality and/or speed) I'd like to know before I scan a ton of testgear manuals... Also, does anyone know of an app that can take the PDF file, OCR it and then insert the text as a background layer while leaving the image alone? I'm pretty sure Acrobat can do this, but like most Adobe software, the price tag is somewhat... eye-watering. "If you have to ask how much it costs, you can't afford it." Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

15 years, 5 months

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Docs found: Honeywell 800, Facit PE1000, Rank Xerox

by hachti＠hachti.de

(see first posting) Honeywell 800: ************** Honeywell 800 transistorized Data Processing System Programmers' Reference Manual DSI-31A, 1962 FACIT PE1000 Paper Tape Reader: ******************************* Spare Parts UP 631001, 1.10.63 Manual UP 630201, 1.4.63 Technical Description (brochure) Rank Xerox: *********** Rank Xerox EXTENDED ALGOL-60 19 05 72 C, May 1972 Sigma 5/9 Computers Control Program-Five (CP-V) Sigma 6/7/9 Computers Time-Sharing Manual 90 09 07 E, June 1973 Xerox Operating System (XOS) Sigma 6/7/9 Computers Batch Processing Reference Manual 90 17 65 A, December 1971 Xerox Universal Time-Sharing System (UTS) Sigma 6/7/9 Computers Time-Sharing User's Guide 90 16 92 A, April 1971 -- http://www.hachti.de

15 years, 5 months

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Y2K retrospective / was Re: Algol vs ...

by dm561＠torfree.net

Unless I just missed it I haven't noticed any reference in this thread to the upcoming Y2K38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

15 years, 5 months

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Getting to dislike tantalum caps

by melamy＠earthlink.net

the issue was definitely normal electrolytic capacitors. The Dell GX-270 desktop computer was one of the victims. We had over 100 of these and Dell replaced nearly every motherboard due to this specific manufacturer's defect. The electrolytic caps used around the cpu would bulge on the top and in some cases burp out electrolyte out of the top. I didn't research the actual cap manufacturer. best regards, Steve Thatcher -----Original Message----- >From: Randy Dawson <rdawson16 at hotmail.com> >Sent: Feb 14, 2010 10:45 AM >To: classic computers <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Subject: RE: Getting to dislike tantalum caps > > >Dwight, > >There was some criminal stuff going on with electrolytes in this era, from the asian manufacturers. Almost everybody associated with the type of electronics that was not 'throw away' remembers this. I had a note from a pro video repair shop, saying that to get a $15,000 pro video camera back in operation would require the replacement of all the tant caps, as they were all destined to fail, and yet another trip to the shop. > >Anybody else recall this? There was one chemical manufacturer pinpointed, that was supplying XR7 or whatever electrolyte to all the manufacturers. They shortcut their process and cut costs, and several years of electronic products were affected. > >Please pots your analog computer work! Have you read the Electronic Research Associates books out there (IIRC) > >Randy

15 years, 5 months

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Tandy Pocket Computer 4 for Auction

by brain＠jbrain.com

Cameron or others, not sure if you're interested, but it's time to get rid of the Tandy PC-4 and all the accessories: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290402539975&ssPageName=… I'll be putting a Northstar Horizon Z80 card and an Horizon HRAM5 card up tomorrow, if anyone is interested. Jim -- Jim Brain, Brain Innovations (X) brain at jbrain.com Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times! Home: http://www.jbrain.com

15 years, 5 months

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VMS source distributions

by IanK＠vulcan.com

I've been talking with HP about obtaining VMS sources for the 6.2 release, which we're running on our VAX-11/780-5. Interestingly, they tell me that source for the original release is available, but not the 'updates' which I believe is the patches issued for this particular release. Does anyone on the list have any experience with these subsequent update releases? If so, please respond to me privately at iank at vulcan.com. I'd like to understand what is or isn't included and how they interacted with the original release. Thanks -- Ian

15 years, 5 months

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Manual for Codar QTimer II Model 102

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

I had excellent results asking for the Matrox QRGB-Alpha board, so I am trying again. I notice that there is a section in bitsavers with one manual for Codar boards, but not the item I am looking for. There is also a Qtimer II Model 120 which is not the specific manual I am looking for, but might be useful. Does anyone know where I might be able to locate a Qtimer II Model 102 manual? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine

15 years, 5 months

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test-drb February 2010