test-drb October 2010

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

175 participants
274 discussions

IBM 2.88MB floppy drive (64F0204 / 72X6101 / Mitsubishi MF356C-799MA) pinout

by classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, I'm pretty sure someone posted this on-list in the past (possibly Chuck?), but I can't find it in my local archive or on the classiccmp.org list archive... I've got a Mitsubishi MF356C-799MA disc drive, part number 72X6101. This is apparently a 2.88MB disc drive from an IBM PS/2, and was (near as I can tell) also sold as an FRU under part number 64F0204. Here's where the confusion starts: it uses a single 34-pin connector for both power and data. I found this site: http://ohlandl.ipv7.net/floppy/Floppy_Pinouts.html#34-pin_MS And another page with similar information: http://ohlandl.ipv7.net/floppy/floppy.html). These give the 34-pin interface pinouts, including the details for the Electronic Eject drive (the 92F0132, aka Sony MP-F40W-07 / MFD-40W-05) and a stern warning to leave pin 6 (+12V) open... Catch is there's nothing about Data Rate Select on pin 2 (which appears to be 0V for 720K and 1.44MB, or high/floating for 2.88MB), or the Media Type ID and Drive Type ID pins. Basically what I want to do is put this drive in a PC, format a couple of 2.88MB discs, then wire it up to the DiscFerret and make sure the acquisition engine and decoder can handle the higher data rate. The timing analyser and simulator say it should work, but I'd actually like to see it working :) Thanks, -- Phil. classiccmp at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

13 years, 6 months

vax 11/751

by legalize＠xmission.com

ok, I only have a couple photos of it, but its better than nothing. I was kinda rushed so I didn't think to open up the cabinet and take pictures of the guts. <http://picasaweb.google.com/legalize.slc/AppliconVAX11751#> -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/> Legalize Adulthood! <http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com>

13 years, 6 months

IBM 2.88MB floppy drive (64F0204 / 72X6101 / Mitsubishi MF356C-799MA) pinout

by philpem＠philpem.me.uk

Hi guys, I'm pretty sure someone posted this on-list in the past (possibly Chuck?), but I can't find it in my local archive or on the classiccmp.org list archive... I've got a Mitsubishi MF356C-799MA disc drive, part number 72X6101. This is apparently a 2.88MB disc drive from an IBM PS/2, and was (near as I can tell) also sold as an FRU under part number 64F0204. Here's where the confusion starts: it uses a single 34-pin connector for both power and data. I found this site: http://ohlandl.ipv7.net/floppy/Floppy_Pinouts.html#34-pin_MS And another page with similar information: http://ohlandl.ipv7.net/floppy/floppy.html). These give the 34-pin interface pinouts, including the details for the Electronic Eject drive (the 92F0132, aka Sony MP-F40W-07 / MFD-40W-05) and a stern warning to leave pin 6 (+12V) open... Catch is there's nothing about Data Rate Select on pin 2 (which appears to be 0V for 720K and 1.44MB, or high/floating for 2.88MB), or the Media Type ID and Drive Type ID pins. Basically what I want to do is put this drive in a PC, format a couple of 2.88MB discs, then wire it up to the DiscFerret and make sure the acquisition engine and decoder can handle the higher data rate. In theory it should work, but I'd like to see it working :) Thanks, -- Phil. philpem at philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/

13 years, 6 months

OT Re: Cataloguing in a museum setting [was Re: nonsense...]

by feldman.r＠comcast.net

I'm getting into this a bit late (I was travelling last week), but I have a few comments, based on 18 years of working at the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. >Message: 4 >Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 19:22:50 +0100 (BST) >From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) >Subject: Re: Cataloguing in a museum setting [was Re: nonsense...] >> >> On Sat, 23 Oct 2010, Tony Duell wrote: >> > Sure, but that's then 4 levels. I ahve no problem extending the >> > heirarchical system to as many levels as are necessary, my query is why >> > it's noramlly limitied to 3. Why not just have as many levels as are needed. >> >> A properly designed system should be extensible to as many levels as are >> needed. > >That's _exactly_ my point. Having atbitrary limits may cause problems >later on. > There could be an arbitrary limit because that is what some database programmer decided was sufficient when the collections program was written (cf. Y2K). >> >> > And why recorsd the year of acquisition? What importance is that? Why not >> > just a number for each artefact starting at 1? >> >> It is unlikely that you nor I would care much about the year of >> acquisition. ?But the bean-counters care. > >Ah no, you misnderstood me... > >Presumanbly there is a database of the artefacts in the museum, indexed >by the indentification numbers. That database includes more details about >the particular object, ?things like (I would hope), options, serial >number (s), version, etc. All we've been discussing. I see no reason why >the date of acquisition (full date, not just the year), source (maybe >'anonymous donor' :-)), and the like should not be stored there as well. >It's far better to store too much information than too little. > >But what I am wondering is why the year of acquisition should be a field >in the indentifier. > The Anthropology collections at FMNH were numbered sequentially, which was a bit of a PIA. Having looked in the catalog ledger books, I might know that artifact 186276 is a Nazca pot collected by Alfred Kroeber in 1927, but is 186277 from the same collecting field trip or is it something from Tibet? Having a number like 1927.23.49 for that pot would make it easier to find associated artifacts. For my field work, I used RegionSite-Feature.artifact, such as M10-5.26. In the end, though, any cataloging system is arbitrary. <snip> > >-tony I would also second the comment (Fred's?) that cataloging needs to be done by someone with knowledge of the material being cataloged. As to cataloging individual boards within a computer, we did not have a comparable situation -- the FMNH's artifacts are usually single items. Where there were, for example, multiple panels in a carved wall, the panels could be numbered 98123.1, 98123.2, etc. The question that has been raised in regards to computers is, where do you stop dividing the artifact??Again, the decision is somewhat arbitrary. The boards might not be numbered, but presumably there is a description of the computer on record?that lists its major components. Bob

13 years, 6 months

Offerered - free - near London: LOADS of sofware, mostly quite old.

by lproven＠gmail.com

Typically on 3.5" floppy. Unless otherwise stated, items are boxed with manuals and 3.5" floppies - believed complete, presumed maybe readable. Also listed on Freegle. THIS STUFF MUST be gone by the weekend or it's going on the tip. If interested, please email: "Chris Comley" <ccomley at gmail.com> MS Excel for Windows v 4 - box, manuals, floppies MS Office 95 Standard - box, maunals CD. Symantec "Norton" backup v3.0 - box, manuals, floppies MS SDK for Win32 NT - floppy and CD - (1993 vintage) MS Windows for Workgroups 3.11 - retail box, floppies MS DOS 6.2 "UPGRADE" - retail box - floppies Wordperfect 6.0 for Windows. unopened retail box - floppies MS Project 4.0 - update - OEM box - floppies MS NT Server 3.51 "step-up edition" - retail box - floppies and CDs. Informix WINGZ 1.1 - Windows and OS2 edition. 52.5 floppies MS Backoffice Svr 2.0 retail box - CDs MS Windows NT "Training" - set of books, CDs, VHS tape. (Refers to ver 3.51) After Dark screen saver for Windows - 3.0 - box, maunals, floppy Stacker 2.0 disk comperssion s/w - box manuals dual floppies Stacker 3.0 disk compression s/w - for Windows and DOS - Upgrade pack - floppies Apple Remote Access client for Macintosh - still sealed. HP NewWave 3.0 for Windows - retail box, manuals, 5.25" floppies Epson Esc/p (printer command language) reference manual The Corporate Retreiveal - text retreival s/w - manuals, 5.25% floppies Arcserve ver4 for Netware 2.2 (5usr) - manual, box, floppies Sitka "10-net" networking s/w - v5.0 - for Windows and DOS - 3 user starter pack - dual floppy Supercalc 5 ref manual (manual only no s/w) Wordperfect for Windows 5.2 - box, .manuals, floppies Book - The Internet, complete reference (Osborne Books) (c) 1994 (Confused.com take note!!) Crosstalk for Windows - dual floppy, box, mnanuals Double DOS - multitasking for DOS - manual, floppyies. McAfee VIrus Scan Deluxe - v4 (1998) - box, manual, dual floppies MS "Plus" companion pack for W95. box, manual CD Delrina Winfax Pro v 4.0 - box, manual. floppies MS Access UPGRADE 2.0, box, manuals, floppies Lotus Notes WIndows Client 3.0 - manual, box, flopps MS Office UPDATE ver 4.2 box. lots of manuals, floppies MS Office 4.2 - box of floppies only Slackware Linux rel 1.1 - glossy box and CDs Pinpoint "Clicknet" 2.0 Pro - Network diagram tools - box, mans, floppies MS Excel 3.0 - white box, 5.25 Disks MS Office UPDATE 4.2 - box, incomplete manuals - floppies

13 years, 6 months

Test Diablo Model 31 drive and disk pack on a PC (Operation Alto Restoration)

by nick.allen＠comcast.net

Al and everyone else, I believe Al has had success interfacing a Diablo Model 31 with a PC computer (I assume so, since he uploaded the Alto diskpacks up to bitsavers.org). Al, Can you (or anyone else) please provide the steps on how to do so? If I can verify the disk drive is working, and the disk packs have valid data on them, this would be yet another step completed in getting the alto up and running =) Thanks!

13 years, 6 months

Octal vs Hex representations of machine code (was Re: TTL HEX LED driver chip)

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 10/27/10, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> I found that octal on the PDP-11 with 16-bit words and 8 bit bytes >> was unnecessarily confusing. > > Except that the many of the PDP11 instructions are easy to decode if > written in octal (4 bit opcode, 3 bit addressing mde, 3 bit register > select, 3 bit addressing mode, 3 bit register select). I would hate to > have to work with PDP11 machine code in hex... Agreed. When I first started working with PDP-11s, my supervisor asked me for a PDP-11 program that would read the "window" register on our product then write it back to the same address and loop (it was a write-only register for each side - what each processor read was what the other had previously written). I thought a second and recited, "1000 slash 13700 lf 177300 lf 10037 lf 177300 lf 137 lf 1000 enter 1000 G" (or something substantially similar to that). He got annoyed and told me to go sit down and write him a program. I told him to turn around and type in what I was telling him. On the third recitation, he started typing. Being two moves and a jump, it worked the first time. He was gobsmacked that it was possible for a human to spontaneously emit meaningful octal. Given the spacing of the addressing modes, I wouldn't have wanted to try it in hex without writing it down. -ethan

13 years, 6 months

What are these IBM 'thingys'

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:20:31 -0400 From: William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> Subject: Re: What are these IBM 'thingys' > My father (NOT a computer historian) used to tell me that IBM patented the > shape of the hole! ?That resulted in a few short-lived attempts at > round-hole cards, etc.), More than a few, actually. There were many, including a trinary one (Super Bee or something. Anyone help?) that used cards with information only on the four edges of the card, but the choices were hole, no-hole, or hole-with-no-outside-edge. -- Will ++++++++++++++++++++ Don't forget EPCs (Edge Punched Cards); basically an 80 column format card with prepunched feed holes and 8-channel paper tape perforations along one edge.

13 years, 6 months

What are these IBM 'thingys'

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> > > On 10/25/10 7:26 PM, leaknoil wrote: >> It looks to me like a punch card exactly fits in there and the contacts are what read the holes in the card. > > nope > > cards are read with 12 brushes Or 80 brushes, I think the holes in cards were made tall and narrow to make reading them that way easier.

13 years, 6 months

Happy Birthday VAX 11/780

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> From: Mr Ian Primus <ian_primus at yahoo.com> > And glaringly so. To say that the 11/780 is the first 32 bit machine is just silly. Prime had a 32 bit machine in 1972. And I know that there were others - but the Prime is the machine that I know the best :) I think I'm right saying the Manchester 'Baby' had a 32 bit word in 1948, actually 32 of them on one Williams tube. However as it was a serial machine the data path to memory was actually one bit wide so it depends how you define bit size, but I was taught it was the largest addressable unit of memory and by that definition it had a 32 bit word. There was talk of the VAX design being the inspiration for the Motorola 68k. Isn't it more likely that the PDP11 influenced the design of both the VAX and the 68k? Actually as I worked for a defence contractor I knew about the 68k before I heard of the VAX. The engineers did not believe the Motorola design was practical and we worried about a large 64 pin chip in the environment of a military helicopter's avionics bay (G forces, vibration, expansion, cooling etc) and it was decided to go with the 48pin Zilog Z8001 instead. Possibly a big mistake but at the time sample Z8001s were available to us but MC68000s were still estimated to be at best months away. When I left the company a couple of years later we had just placed an order for a VAX 11/780 to augment our GEC 4080, GEC 4070 and a Prime.

13 years, 6 months

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test-drb October 2010