> From: Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com>
>
> 2009/7/1 Rich Alderson <RichA at vulcan.com>:
>>> From: Liam Proven
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:00 PM
>>
>>> Tom's Hardware - a popular site for PC hardware tweakers and
>>> overclockers - has done an ambitious article on the development of
>>> the
>>> mainframe:
>>
>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/508-mainframe-computer-history.html
>>
>>> It's a little American-centric but it's not at all bad.
>>
>> *American*-centric!?! ?How about *IBM*-centric?!?
>>
>> After the 1960s, the only non-IBM product mentioned is the
>> (minicomputer)
>> VAX-11/780. ?(OK, *super*minicomputer, but even so...)
>>
>> And in the 1960s, the only other DEC product mentioned is *the
>> PDP-8*????
>> (with a brushoff for several years of successful sales prior to the
>> -8, no
>> less.) ?Another mini, and no acknowledgement of the PDP-10
>> mainframe on which
>> the bulk of the development of the modern Internet took place.
>>
>> It would be nice if they knew what they were talking about.
>>
>> IMAO,
>> Rich
>
> Ohboy. Can't deny any of your observations, but I though that for a
> site from a world that barely knows that anything other than x86
> exists or ever has, it wasn't too bad!
The title was disgraceful. I don't mind US sources favouring US
machines but calling it a complete history is akin to the Soviet state
claiming every worthwhile invention was made by their citizens.
> But don't tell us - tell them, in their comments boards, or mail the
> author.
I did but they can't take criticism and pulled my comments.
> Or better still, write a complementary piece - hell, perhaps we could
> do it collectively on the list as a group effort? - and submit it to
> Tom's HW as a follow-on, filling in the gaps...?
Yes it would have to be a joint effort. None of us can ever know it
all, but can we cover enough? An approximate count up of 'big computer
list' up to 1980 is about 7 to 8 hundred machines. I think this is too
many. Should we perhaps limit it to production machines made in
quantities of at least, say ten, or a hundred. But then would we want
to omit machines like Atlas? Probably not. Any ideas on a more useful
measure of what should be included?
Roger Holmes.
Who can write only the ICT 1300/1301/1302 series sections, complete
with modern pictures. I've programmed other mainframes IBM 7094/CDC
6600/ICL 1905E/ICL 1904S/CDC SC17/CDC 7600/ICL 1906S but in most cases
never got near them more than once each, and knew very little about
the internal architecture.
Hi,
Just discovered this cool video by Jeri Ellsworth that is on YouTube. The first part many of you probably know already (but I found very educational), but I'm sure you'll all enjoy the last part (exploding capicators, captured at 1200fps).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq5gLrGumR0
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
Thanks. I'll hunt down a box for my backups, and can store? a backup set elsewhere.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Sat, 4/7/09, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
From: Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com>
Subject: Re: Write-only backup media and big archives
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Date: Saturday, 4 July, 2009, 5:21 PM
On 4 Jul 2009 at 13:53, Andrew Burton wrote:
> I was recently wondering how harddrives and USB memory sticks would
> hold up against an EMP burst (from a very close lightning strike).
> Data stored on a CD/DVD wouldn't be effected, but it is far easier to
> do backups to tape, a 2nd harddrive or a USB stick than CDs/DVDs. Of
> course CDs/DVDs could be damaged by heat.
I do backups to USB flash routinely and store them in a metal file
box.? I worry more far more about damage from fire than from EMP.???
Storing a duplicate set of backups off-site is always a good move--I
periodically rotate a set through the safety deposit box at my bank
(offered at no charge to depositors).
--Chuck
Looks like it is missing the integral console CRT display as can be seen here: http://www.sieler.com/hp250/. I don;t know enough about the 250 to know if it would still be usable without this, or how easily a substitute could be used.
Lee Courtney
--- On Sat, 7/4/09, SPC <spedraja at ono.com> wrote:
> From: SPC <spedraja at ono.com>
> Subject: HP-250 and DATA GENERAL ECLIPSE S-120
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 9:53 AM
> And in the same travel to pickup it
> you can get this one too: 200303090120
>
> One HP 250 in eBay, num. 200305540332
> >
> > Very sad.. these don't appears in Europe.
> >
> > Regards
> > Sergio
> >
> >
>
And in the same travel to pickup it you can get this one too: 200303090120
One HP 250 in eBay, num. 200305540332
>
> Very sad.. these don't appears in Europe.
>
> Regards
> Sergio
>
>
I was recently wondering how harddrives and USB memory sticks would hold up against an EMP burst (from a very close lightning strike). Data stored on a CD/DVD wouldn't be effected, but it is far easier to do backups to tape, a 2nd harddrive or a USB stick than CDs/DVDs. Of course CDs/DVDs could be damaged by heat.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Fri, 3/7/09, mailman at trailing-edge.com <mailman at trailing-edge.com> wrote:
From: mailman at trailing-edge.com <mailman at trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Write-only backup media and big archives
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Friday, 3 July, 2009, 3:32 PM
Not really a mechanical or procedural thing, but a little more
philosophical as I think about data storage not just at home
for classic computing, but at work:
In the 90's the CD-R and soon after the DVD-R looked pretty ideal
for making "write only" backups of what was then considered large
amounts of data. While not archival in the centuries sense, it
seemed a pretty safe bet that readers would be readily available for
the next 10 or 20 years and I think this bet has turned out well.
I was willing to spend an afternoon buring a dozen or two CD-R's
because they felt "real".
But today, a "large amount of data" is not a few gigabytes, but
terabytes. Tape libraries with these sorts of capacities do
exist but aren't available at the corner store
and I have a nagging mistrust of tapes that causes me to refer
to them as "write only memory". (I never really ever trusted anything
denser than 1600BPI 9-track!). Burning 2000 CD-R's or even 500 DVD-R's
doesn't seem like a reasonable or useful task to backup a terabyte
hard drive (which today is a fraction the price of the 9 Gig drives of the
mid-90's that was "big storage".)
At the same time, the ubiquitous and available-at-the-corner-store
terabyte-sized USB drives don't feel awfully reliable either. They
are way more convenient and cheap though, and that's my prefered
backup media today.
I think I'm falling into the trap of confusing the price of storage
with the value of the information recorded onto the storage. It's
ironic that as disk space has become cheaper and cheaper, we regard
the contents as less worthy of the effort of backup onto reliable
media.
OK, philosophy mode off. The NTSB is gonna be asking me for a few
gigabytes of data next week and that seems easy compared to the
terabytes at home.
Tim.
>
>Subject: Re: Kaypro System disks?
> From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
> Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>> Will a Kaypro really play nice with a
>> 3.5" floppy drive? It never occurred to me to try it. I
>> thought the floppy drivers under CP/M only knew about DD
>> drives, and the bios on the boot disk was different between
>> the various Kaypro models among other things to support the
>> different floppies they had (SS/SD, SS/DD, DS/DD).
>
>A 720K 3.5" IS a DD drive.
>Depending on the specific model, the Kaypro will only see 40 tracks of the
>3.5", and may or may not support using the second side.
depends on the model and if it has one of the improved BIOS chips like
Advent Turbo rom.
I have a 4/84 with turborom, disk personality card and 1MB Ramdisk
and it've very nice with four drives. One is 40track 2sided, the other
two are fitted to the other half height slot and are two 3.5" floppies at
720k/781k as there are a few formats that get a bit more on a disk.
The forth is tucked inside and used to hold stuff I always need.
Note: the drives used are older Sony 720/1.44m drives with unit select
switches.
>There was substantial third party support (Advent? Micro Cornucopia, etc.)
>for DS 80 track ("720K") drives on Kaypros.
Advent was one I know well. I've seen others on line fairly recently.
>One quirk about the Kaypro format, is that it puts an incorrect value in
>the head number field of the sectors on the second side. But, it doesn't
>seem to object to a disk having the correct value there.
Head selection is not by the FDC (1793) but by a port. The FDC for side 2
is programmed as if it were side 1. A bit odd but there are worse.
Allison
>--
>Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
I have a version of the diagnostics that does not run on my MicroVAX II
because it has insufficient memory (I think some of it is bad), so I am
trying to load the original diagnostics that came with the machine because
that does not complain about available memory, but I am having trouble
reading the whole tape. The listing below is of what I have successfully
recovered from the tape, I was wondering if anyone has the full set of
diagnostics that match the listing I have below.
Thanks
Rob
GGSKMADA.EXE;1 10 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMADAMSG.EXE;1 37 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDHA.EXE;1 42 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDHAMSG.EXE;1 18 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDLA.EXE;1 21 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDLAMSG.EXE;1 13 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDMA.EXE;1 34 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDMAMSG.EXE;1 22 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDPA.EXE;1 61 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDPAMSG.EXE;1 18 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDRA.EXE;1 31 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDRAMSG.EXE;1 20 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDZA.EXE;1 52 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMDZAMSG.EXE;1 19 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMIEA.EXE;1 38 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMIEAMSG.EXE;1 18 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKAA.EXE;1 37 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKAAMSG.EXE;1 9 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKDA.EXE;1 177 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKDAMSG.EXE;1 44 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKMA.EXE;1 63 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKMAMSG.EXE;1 21 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKWA.EXE;1 27 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMKWAMSG.EXE;1 23 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMLPA.EXE;1 15 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMLPAMSG.EXE;1 10 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMMSA.EXE;1 37 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMMSAMSG.EXE;1 12 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMRRA.EXE;1 84 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMRRAMSG.EXE;1 37 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMRXA.EXE;1 97 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMRXAMSG.EXE;1 41 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMTKA.EXE;1 56 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMTKAMSG.EXE;1 27 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMTSA.EXE;1 44 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMTSAMSG.EXE;1 14 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMVCA.EXE;1 39 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMVCAMSG.EXE;1 14 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMXQA.EXE;1 45 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
GGSKMXQAMSG.EXE;1 17 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
SYSBOOT.EXE;1 557 19-NOV-1985 00:00:00.00
