test-drb March 2008

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

209 participants
369 discussions

Need a good home (currently in Arnhem, Netherlands)

by hofmanwb＠versatel.nl

I would like to part from - a Compaq 286/SLT luggable - an LA75 (Dec) printer - an LA50 printer - 4 x RL02 drives - 2 x RL01 drives - 2 x PDP11/24, but one is a mess - 20 + RL02 disks Wim

16 years

End of restoration of the early French computer SEREL ODP-505 (germanium CPU)

by pichotjm＠free.fr

| > ECN: Engineering change notice. Indicates revision of PCB.| | Thanks, I did not realise you had already translated it to English.| >| > The ODP-505 is a pure binary machine, not designed for arithmetics,| > statistical purposes or BCD computations.It is a real time (!!!) | > computer.| > Get some datas (voltages, frequencies, switch states, motor speed,| > temperature...) compare to thresholds or values, and speed up / | > slow down| > motor, or move a cadmium bar (?) in a nuclear reactor...| | I see. The Elliott machines were the same (but not the ICT1301), | keeping the gun of a tank level and aimed in the right direction, | accepting data from gyros and inertial sensors and tracking the | position and orientation of an aircraft or ship, cross checking with | compasses and other navigational systems, analysing sonar data and | tracking enemy submarines etc. I think we are right. I never worked with this machine, so i do expectations (with my good knowlegde of micro-processing) | By the time of the 920ATC we even used | a special real time programming language called Coral66, based on | Algol60 syntax but with cut down semantics to give highly efficient | run times. Before that everything was done in assembler (called | S.I.R.) or machine code.I have no information about software. I don't know if they had even an assembleror if they do the job with a pencil and a rubber. (as i explain in my IBM 650 section)Have a look there: http://pichotjm.free.fr/IBM650/fileUS.html| >> | The architecture of your machine reminds me of the first machine I| >> | was allowed to operate. It was an 18 bit binary machine, it had | >> 8k of| >> | memory built in, expandable with external modules and was made | >> by the| >> | Airborne Computing Division (ACD) of Elliotts, it was an Elliott | >> 920B| >> | and was a compact, flyable version of the commercial Elliott 903.| >> | There had been an earlier model 920A which I think would have been| >> | Germanium and was roughly the size and shape of a carpenters work| >> | bench. This may have been contemporary with your earlier machine I| >> | think. Unfortunately I never saw one in the flesh, but there was a| >> | bench in the computer room which I found out later, was the empty| >> | chassis of a 920A. Behind the bench was a large panel full of| >> | electrical 'chocolate strip' connectors where the analogue and| >> | digital input and output signals of the 920A could be connected up.| >> | Apparently some of the analogue outputs had been connected up to an| >> | oscilloscope to provide a visual display unit, though it used a | >> fair| >> | bit of processor time to keep it refreshed, even with the long| >> | persistence phosphor of an oscilloscope. The panel had been covered| >> | with board with pegs to hold mylar paper tapes and until the day it| >> | was scrapped I had not seen what was behind it.| | > Very interesting!There are some video connector in the earlier | > machine and| > the Serel companywas specialized in high tech video solutions.| | Possible application for computers in video back then were | superimposing images and standards conversion and just possibly | titling and graphics.You seem to have not browsed completly my website. I show about 200 beautiful photos describing these kinds of applications. We did superimposing images and standards conversion for ship, nuclear plants,helicopters test, meteo ... have a look there http://pichotjm.free.fr/Techno73/Techno73.htmlI have not translated the pages (need time) but if you click on every linksyou will see these beautiful pictures i have taken in the 'Le Bourget' aeronautic international fair in 1973.I have no returns about these publishings, so i am not very encoraged to translate them... If you want I will try to take time.I just verify it's translated! http://pichotjm.free.fr/Techno73/Techno73US.html(probably badly, but sufficient) | > I have read| > somewhere in docs, thatthis computer have a screen output...| | If it has two or preferably three digital to analogue converters then | a vector display is fairly easy, but maybe it was more complex than | that, and you only need one digital to analogue converter for a | raster display, provided you have enough CPU power to both drive the | display in real time and do any processing required as well.| | I should explain what I said about two or three A/D converter, you | have one to drive the X plate and one for the Y, ideally one for the | brightness (Z), but with a fast enough converter, you can deflect the | beam so fast so it will not mark the screen significantly and so no | need to turn the beam off before moving to the next item to be | displayed.I have a picture of the display terminal for the earlier one: http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/Notices/Serel%20computer%20dept/img_3673.html… following english page indicates 'Oscilloscopic characters display' | > I have found,| > last week a small notice describing microprogramming on| > ODP-505.http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/ODP505/MicroProgrammation/ | > MicroProgrammation.html(doc| > found in photomultiplier doc!)I have found commercial document | > describing| > displays and analog memories...I don't know the date... (1970?) I | > have to| > study these documents...| | I had a look but my understanding of French is terrible, and | technical details in French are even more difficult.Do you know how I am tired after a translation to publish in english? ...| >> I have a| >> earlier machine from the same company SEREL, named OA-1001. Built in| >> 1959/1960.I need to restore it. It lays on the floor (horizontal| >> position)... The blue one| >> here:http://pichotjm.free.fr/Serel/Photos/Photos.htmlI will start| >> restoring| >> next month (with the Sun!)| >| > | What is involved in the restoration? Do you intend to make it work,| > | this would be very hard without the schematics.| | | > As you know, i am alone,| > here. I want to make an esthetic restoration:Photos and notes, | > dismantle,| > photos and notes, wash, dry, fix the rust, protect with Rustol, | > photos an| > reassemble. I hope to be capable to do that... may be one year, may be| > two...| | As I understand it, that is what the big museums call preservation. | There has been a lot of discussion of the relative merits of | preservation and restoration. Restoration is what they call it when | we return a computer to running condition, preferably so it can be | demonstrated. There is some truth that restoring a computer always | destroys some of the original and that preservation is, to the | purist, a better thing to do. I know... but i can use a bad english word... It's why i precised esthetic!| As I have two 1301s, I have the luxury | of being able to restore one and preserve the other, but restoration | is a lot more enjoyable to me.May be, but i know the time needed. And I have many projects for the future.I don't used to watch back. I prefer future [i intend to live in! ;-) ]I do a lot of program in television, compression, splitting, ECC, FTP, transmission...(I have a son living in the USA, so he can watch french TV in broadcast quality... chutt!)| The other thing of course is simulation. This can be done at various | levels, simple simulation of the instruction set, more complex | simulation at gate level and in theory the ultimate would be to have | a 3D model of the computer you could walk around and inspect the | inside of, and attach a virtual oscilloscope to and watch the | analogue signal levels and be able to do hardware patches and have | simulated hardware faults and diagnose and repair them whilst the | lights and switches all worked like the real thing and the sounds and | 3D models of the peripherals would also be like the real thing. Maybe | I'd leave out the sound of a card deck being mangled and thrown into | the air by the card reader though.Yes i know all these kinds of technics... and can do the work (not 3D)It would probably be better to spend his time in creating a special software to do reverse engineering, (and more exciting for me) with a mixt of taking photos, and piloting schematics and routing simultaneously...| >| > May be some reverse engineering to get 2 or 3 schematics. (need one | > week for| > a board! I have 2 boards in process...)JM Pichot| | Good, Yes, but i have no courage to finish the task...| are you able to identify the function of each type of board | (such as 'And' gate, Flip-Flop etc)Probably, with the help of my lectures of the sixties...| If not I could perhaps compare with my 1301 schematics and see if | they have any similarities. How difficult is it to identify the power | supply connections?For the small computer, i have to analyse schematics (to be done!)For the earlier, cables are preserved and connected. I have power supplies, so it is allways possible to trace wires... (not really exciting!)| Are you planning on doing schematics for the board interconnections? Not today! or this year. First i plan to preserve the machine and publishphotos.| I imagine this would be very difficult, so probably best not to try.There is no national interest, today, in France, to preserve or studyold machines... It's a huge task. I can not do that... alone.So i will wait (or my sons..) that French speak, make meetings, makereports, ask for money... may be in 20 years. Museums are for paintings, ceramics, statues...I have to be more positive!!!By the way, if you are not still fed up, i spent last days in publishingan analysis about a display terminal designed in 1969, which use 32 TV delay lines as memory! Have a look there: http://pichotjm.free.fr/DisplayDL/DisplayDLus.htmlNote. I have not a perfect english, so i can misuse words. I never intend to be agressive, unpolite or to hurt any body. I wish you a good evening.Jean-Marie PICHOT

16 years

Looking for a M8330 or a couple of SN74194's

by cclist＠sydex.com

Dwight wrote: > I expect that someday, the supply will run dry. There are a few > parts that are already getting hard to find. 74S38 are one of them. > The ones that are really bad are the custom parts. The ROM chip > for the KIM is a good example. > I have a board that is waiting for a bus inteface chip. I watch > but don't have a lot of hope. One can still find UV-201 tubes/valves for sale. I expect to be fertilizer by the time that the world's source of TTL runs dry. But even now, SMT and programmable logic has progressed far enough that some sort of accommodation can be made if one wants to mount components on DIP-sized PCBs. The problems that I see are with the very special-purpose chips whose function and pinout aren't well understood. If you know what should be in a ROM, for example, there should be no problem cobbling something up that will work. The problem arises when you don't know what the contents are--and the ROM goes bad. Cheers, Chuck

16 years

Free microvax 3800 available in Cleveland Ohio, USA

by vax9000＠gmail.com

Hello people, I am dumping my small collection. If anybody is interested and is able to pick it up, you are welcome to get it. I do not ship or store. It was a complete microvax 3800 (upgraded to 3900) but I took the KA655 to fix my barebone 3900. You get the computer with RA7? DISK, DSSI disk controller, memory, ethernet card, tape card and tape drive. Plug in a KA655 and it is ready to go. If nobody is willing to take it, I will take it apart and sell the components to cover my time. vax9000

16 years

pdp-8/l switch handles?

by brad＠heeltoe.com

I'm sure this has been hashed over 100 times, but I'm curious (and please set me straight - or laugh!) If I wanted to find 4-5 of the nice plastic "switch handles" used on the front panel of a PDP-8/L, is there any hope of finding them? I'm only missing about 5 (I think). I know someone was making them from scratch, but is that the only way? Does anyone have a handful they's like to sell? (I need to figure out which colors I need, I know) go ahead, chuckle away, but i had to ask... -brad

16 years

NEC APC III

by cclist＠sydex.com

> --- Vaughan Karin Sage <vwsage at adam.com.au> wrote: > > Hi, I have an old NEC H03 APC III that has the > inbuilt twin 8"floppies & colour screen. I have > blown the High Tension transformer on the board to > the left of the VDU. Wondering if anyone has parts > for this old beastie. I used it to run EZCAM for > 2axis CNC machining & would love to get it going > again. The APC was part of the NEC PC98 series of machines, which are fairly compatible from the first (1980s) to the last (ca. 2000) members of the series. Technically, a better platform than the IBM PC series and marketed under varioius export model numbers, such as N5220. But sill the venerable PC 9801 under the badge. PC 98 was hugely popular in Japan, holding the majority of the market for the 80s and much of the 1990s. A note to one of the Japanese PC98 user groups should get you what you need. Members of this family are still in use for various industrial uses; lots of manufacturers, such as Mitubishi used them as controllers for their iron (I see a LOT of Mitsubishi EDM disks here). I'd expect to see a higher prevalence of PC 9801 series gear in Oz than in the USA, for example, simply due to geographic proximity. Failing rehabilitation of your old system, there are several decent 9801 emulators that run under Windoze that you might try to get your software running. Cheers, Chuck

16 years

cashtrac.exe ???

by belray1＠aol.com

Hi, I just say your message from 2004 about cashtrac. ?I have been using this great program for over twenty years and I would love to make it work with XP but I have no idea how to do it. ?When you say 95 dos box, what do you mean? ?Is there some way I can make my xp program work like 95 dos? If you have time to respond please do so to; Belray1 at aol.com and put cashtrac in the subject line so I do not spam your response. Thanks,? Gary Fetter

16 years

Plan 9, GNOT, 5620 terminals

by jeffj＠panix.com

> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:56:51 -0400 > From: "John Floren" <slawmaster at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Research Unix v9, v10 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <7d3530220803272356j78f3f724ne5f10c37d32cb587 at mail.gmail.com> > I already have VMS on my Alpha and the VAX; if I can't get Research > Unix on the VAX, I'll stay with VMS. The later additions to Research > Unix evolved in some interesting directions which eventually led to > Plan 9, the OS I develop for at work. Are you also using Inferno and Limbo? The last I knew, Rob Pike was still active with Plan 9. Can't you ask him directly since any Plan 9 user ought to be a "close personal friend of ..." :-) Or is all that gone with the Alcatel merger? I never got to touch Plan 9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs It was ramping up just as AT&T IS was ramping down. I adored the names of all the BAD movies and the mascot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenda,_the_Plan_9_Bunny Glenda is the mascot of the distributed operating system Plan 9 from Bell Labs. It was drawn by Renee French ... As Plan 9 is named after the Ed Wood film Plan 9 from Outer Space, Glenda is named after Wood's film Glen or Glenda. I was curious about the "Aleph" language but that was dropped long ago. I agree for the need to better express parallelism in programming instead of just inlines and libraries for threads. > I'd love to find a Blit (AT&T/Teletype model 5620) terminal > and a VAX capable of running v10; that was a brilliant system. In the late 80s while working on Unix developement at AT&T IS (information systems), the porting base for SVR4.0 was a 3b2/400 (desktop size) and the 5620. But later terminals were better. Citing http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/att/5620/5620_faq.html The successor to the 5620 was the 630 which came out 1987. The processor changed back to the Motorola 68000 which the developers had wanted all along. Most of the 630 monitors were amber, although white and green monitors were also available. The monitors had a non-interlaced 1024x1024 pixels and did not have slow phosphors. A second RS232 port was included with optional SSI (3270 connectivity) and 512K RAM cards. In 1989 new firmware for the 630 came out and the name was changed to the 730. This firmware supported 3 RS232 ports, LAN cards, built-in 4014 emulator, and enhanced PF-keys. Options to the 730 included the SSI card (which added the 3rd RS-232 port), ISO and TCP LAN cards, and an X-cartridge. The LAN cards supported from 512K to 4Meg of RAM. In 1990, the 730+ came out with a faster 68000, more EPROM space and RAM was moved from the LAN card to the main controller. In 1991, ISDN connectivity was provided to AT&T Bell Labs. Meanwhile, AT&T research came out with a totally new motherboard controller card using the 630 monitor with totally new software (Plan 9) and called it a GNOT. It had a Motorola 68030 as the main processor. What I'm trying to say is that the newer terminals ought to be more desirable since they use parts that you can probably still get and emulate. The 5620 was based on the AT&T WE32000 CPU, which was fun to use at the time (the heart of the companion 3b2) but I fear there's no support for it anymore. A friend has a 5620 but not the games and toolkits (since TOAD is gone: the AT&T toolchest of unsupported software). The windowing software used the "layers" serial line protocol which will also be hard to re-create. Sigh: it was fun running programs that downloaded into the terminal (cip: drawing program for PIC, GEBACA: Get Back At Corporate America: a game where you shoot corporate logos, the clock-of-all-nations with builtin printer driver and keyboard lock ...) If you succeeded in crashing the 5620's monitor, you got a mushroom shaped cloud with the panic message. I still have some of the red dome 5620 bus-mice because they were truly the most comfy mice ever made. I suddenly have renewed interest in making a USB adapter for it. I found the 5620 web page from: http://fixunix.com/plan9/241581-9fans-blit-gnot-portrait-monitors.html > John > Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn ^^^^^^^^^ If u cn rd ths u cn gt a gd jb in hll ?

16 years

Looking for a M8330 or a couple of SN74194's

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Hello All As I said before my PDP-8/e partly failed insofar as it would not load data into memory. I rewound my personal memory back thirty plus years and did a lot of relearning about how pre microprocessor systems worked. Toggling the Add Load switch puts the address on the bus and triggers the time state generator to cycle. In the correct time slot the address is set in the memory ready for the data. Setting the Switch Register with the data and toggling the DEP key should write data from the SR to the pre set memory location via the bus in another time slot. The time states are generated by a string of SN74194 shift registers and the slot for the data is not being decoded. It looks like the '194 is at fault. Now I need either a couple of 74194's or an M8330 board. Rod Smallwood TheDECcollector

16 years

GRIDSCAN

by cclist＠sydex.com

I was cleaning some bookshelves in my office and discovered a 3.5" DS2D diskette with the diagnostic program GRIDSCAN (for early-ish Grid laptops). If anyone wants it, I've posted a self-extracting diskette image at: http://www.sydex.com/temp/gridscan.exe I'll leave it up for a week or so. Thanks, Chuck

16 years

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test-drb March 2008