> Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 08:34:34 -0500
> From: "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net>
> Ive encountered a devilish problem with MBASIC running on CP/M. Ive
> completely rebuilt my IMSAI disk system and so far, the only program Ive
> not been able to get to work is BASIC. Does anyone recall if BASIC
> directly messed around with CP/M or anything weird like that? Even if I
> limit the assumed memory size with the /M: parameter, it still doesnt
> work (I get no sign-on message).
I have seen patched-for-specific hardware MBASIC. Are you certain
about having an absolutely vanilla-flavored unvarnished copy? I
probably have one kicking around here if you don't.
Cheers,
Chuck
Hey Scott,
I have the complete Chicago FOG library as well as 3 Osbornes and many
hardware spares. You can email me at:
Edwin.kaminskas at sbcglobal.net
Ed Kaminskas
Grand Rapids, MI
This recent thread about microprogramming VAXen was interesting. If you
read Dave Patterson's history of VLSI RISC machines you'll see that he was
interested in programming the 780 but changed his mind.
It's also interesting to note that microprogramming was used in two
different cases to create capability machines: one, a 11/730 at Cambridge
and the other the 11/40E at CMU.
There's the KMC-11, but that's another kettle of squid.
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008, Christian R. Fandt wrote:
> Been a loooong time since I've last had contact with you. I've been busy
> with other stuff, been off classiccmp list for quite awhile, but still
> am somewhat aware of classic computer goings-on thru the MARCH list
> (MUCH less traffic to mess with, especially that danged OT stuff).
Hi Christian.
[ I copied this to the CC list for the edification of all who are involved
with this. ]
Good to hear from you again. Sorry for never following through on that
LaserJet carthridge you wanted. I'm really bad at follow-up sometimes.
If you still want that cart, I still have it! It's been in the same place
ever since we last spoke about it. If you want it, send me your address
again and I'll ship it off to you, my treat.
> Were you one of the bunch she contacted? If so, then I don't need to
> forward pictures to you. I tagged onto this email the Excel file though,
> since it's relatively small (58k), just in case she hadn't contacted
> you.
Yep, I was one of the victims of her unreasonably high expectations. The
entirety of the hardware she has is worth, in my opinion, less than $200.
$100 would be reasonable for the lot. She only has one
monitor/keyboard/mouse, and because these systems use custom display and
keyboard interfaces you can't (easily) just take a standard monitor and
keyboard and connect them. I tried to explain this to her but she said
other people she contacted said they would just build interfaces.
Whatever. For the complexity of doing this, please refer to old postings
to the CC list from Tony Duell (do a search). Suffice it to say, it's not
straightfoward.
So in effect she has one complete system, a bunch of otherwise useless
CPUs, and a pile of documentation and software for various different Xerox
systems.
> <BEGIN copied email text>
>
> I am finally done listing all the Xerox stuff.... I found more manuals
> and software on 1/30. I have attached a spreadsheet with everything
> listed. I would really like to sell everything altogether. That may not
> work.... but that is how I would like to start. I would like to ask
> $2500.00 for all of it to start. I will modify based on the response
> received. I am sending this same message to about 20 others that have
> expressed sincere interest. I want to make sure that this stuff goes to
> someone who will care for it in the best way and who will
> document/archive all the manuals/software for others. This is a large
> amount of work. Notes about the items are included in the spreadsheet...
> please ask any questions that you wish. This, to me, is a substantial
> collection of vintage computing items.
> >
> > There is a note in the spreadsheet indicating that I am really only
> offering 6 of the 1186s because I want to keep one. I would rather not
> ship the stuff... for several obvious reasons... but it is not ruled out
> completely. Also, I did not try to turn anything on, because several
> have requested that I do not. Damage can occur from merely turning them
> on, thus, I have not done that.
> >
> > Thanks for your patience while I go through all of this stuff. It has
> been an experience!
> >
> > Diana
> <END copied email text>
>
> I'm no where near an expert like you on values, but doesn't $2500.00 for
> the whole lot seem high for all this?? Or are these LISP machines
> getting to be like hen's teeth? I've never seen one in the wild myself.
> Her attitude about preservation of the gear/docs is rather good though.
6085's are certainly rarer these days. I don't know if my own experience
can be a reliable indicator because I'm a hyper-collector, but I have
about 8-10 of these systems in my collection (with maybe 3 monitors and 2
keyboards). They are certainly uncommon--I won't say rare--but when they
are found they are usually found in batches like this. The last time I
got any was a pallet load I hauled from North Carolina back in the 1998
timeframe. In the meantime I have seen one or two here and there, but not
often. Then again, I don't see anything with the regular frequency that I
used to, so one could argue everything is rare these days, including
C64s. I could be mistaken (probably am) but I could swear I remember
seeing one at WeirdStuff in Sunnyvale recently.
Anyway, they have a certain cachet because they are second generation STAR
machines. They don't have the physicality of the original 8010, but they
do run the same software, and for those who want to own a piece of early
GUI history, this would be a good entry point. Keep in mind that these
systems will still take a lot of work and reading to get up and running.
Example: when they boot they expect to connect to a time server on the
network. There are (easy) ways around this, but again it's not a system
for the casual collector. You have to know what you're doing before you
can get to a desktop login dialog.
The real treasure here are the disks and manuals. I'd really like to get
my hands on the 6060 system disks and manuals (I have a 6060 but no
software or manuals) and the 8" floppies. I have the facilities to make
copies for other people, BTW.
So in general, the hardware is not interesting to me. To others it might
be because they probably don't already have a pile of them :) But because
she only has one keyboard, mouse and monitor (the latter of which from the
sounds of it is pretty beat up) she only has one complete system. The
rest is spare parts.
The documentation and software is a different story. I would say it's
worth a few hundred bucks (I don't want to be more specific because I
don't want to bias the bargaining process), but it should be separated
into logical lots. It makes no sense to include the 8" floppies with the
5.25" stuff, for example, because the 1186 doesn't have an 8" floppy
drive. Ditto with the 6060 stuff.
In conclusion, for someone who really wants an 1186 system, $500 would not
be unreasonable for one complete system with software and manuals. Based
on the description of the physical condition of the monitor, I'd knock
that in half. I'd have to look at the spreadsheet in detail to guess at
prices for the various software and docs. But unless she's willing to
separate the lot then the deal is a non-starter. $2,500 is a pipe dream.
I hope this helps.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
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Good grief!
ebay auction:
190195405164
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 2/7/2008
11:17 AM
It's a strange thing to do but it might be worth keeping in mind if you
are looking at buying SID chips off of eBay (the C64's sound chip, for
those who don't know).
http://kevtris.org/Projects/sid/remarked_sids.html
I make no comment on the factuality of the assertions presented, but I
suppose the moral is when buying NOS, caveat emptor.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -- Carl Sagan --------------
> Good grief!
>
> ebay auction:
> 190195405164
I bought my first Model 33 ASR at the tender age of 14. It was the main console I/O peripheral as well as a mass storage drive :-).
At the time, my net income was probably $10-$20-$30 a week. It depended on how many lawns I could mow a week :-).
I paid $150 for it.
So that was probably a month or two income for me.
Today a month or two of income is way more than $3000. Not to brag or anything! And obviously not all of it is disposable income like when I was a kid. Could I somehow scrounge together $3000 as disposable income in a month or two? Probably, it'd be hard to justify it to my wife :-).
So honestly in terms of "Tim Constant Dollars" I don't see a huge discrepancy here.
Tim.
> Good grief!
>
> ebay auction:
> 190195405164
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.21/1265 - Release Date: 2/7/2008
> 11:17 AM
>
>
Indeed. For that amount I will sell my own ASR-33 and it will come with
pedestal, copyholder, chadbox, a box of papertape, 2 rolls of paper
and the 3 manuals...
Ohhh wait, I have a complete spare one in storage too. Shall we say $5000
for both????
Ed
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:38:58 -0600
> From: Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org>
> My summer job between college terms was working at Egghead software, and
> there was a massive, MASSIVE push from Egghead to sell MS-DOS 5.0. We
> (lowly sales floor associates) were bussed to a convention center and
> shown various presentations on why MS-DOS 5.0 was dA b0mB and why it was
> the perfect add-on to any and all sales already in progress at the
> register. Many cheezy sales guides and videos followed. While I liked
> the built-in memory management and disk compression (because I'm a
> compression geek) of 5.0, I was extremely turned off by the push.
Speaking of cheezy MS-DOS, does anyone want a copy of the MS-DOS 5.0
user's manual, beta version, labeled "Microsoft Confidential"? May
17, 1990 and the usual rough-copy workup with lots of boxes labeled
"This artwork not available for this release". About 350 pages.
Otherwise, I value the binder it's in more than the paper, so the
ephemera will go into the recycling pile if unclaimed. I don't know
how it differs from the release version, as I never bothered to read
it.
Real programmers don't need no stinkin' user's manual.
Cheers,
Chuck
This is a little OT but the show does track back to things on-topic.
>From the producer:
---
Modern Marvels: 90s Tech
Premieres: TONIGHT!
Thursday, February 7th @ 8pm ET/PT on The History Channel (please check
local listings)
90s Tech: It was the dot com decade that opened up the information
superhighway. "Modern Marvels: 90s Tech" takes you way back to the end of
the 20th century and the beginning of today's trendy technologies. From DVDs
to TIVO to GPS, see how the digital gadgets we can't live without all
started in the 90s. Hear the Amazon story from its very own founder, Jeff
Bezos, and see how millions of cyber goods are packaged and shipped at an
800,000 square-foot Amazon distribution center. At Google, learn the
science of the world's most popular search engine. And was Furby really a
threat to national security? We go beyond its furry exterior to show you
the inner-workings of the intriguing pet. Heavyweight Boxing Champion
George Foreman, will show us how to "knock out the fat" with one of the
best-selling appliances of the decade. And its creators will demo some of
the original first-person shooter games: Wolfenstein 3D and Doom.
---
There is some neat stuff about Google including some images from the CHM.
When they talk about portable computers they show an Osborne 1 (mine), a
PowerBook 170 (also mine) as well as some other gear. The Compaq in the
background is another item I sent them for the show.
Evan Koblentz was their technical consultant for the portable computing
segment.
It's a bit late for the East Coast folks but the show will re-run, I'm sure.
Erik Klein
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