test-drb August 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

221 participants
459 discussions

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

A few weeks ago, some people in here were talking about putting network cards in IBM PCs or XTs or something... As it happens, I ran across a box of 3com 3c503 network cards (AUI and 10BaseT ports, 8 bit ISA card). If anyone wants one, lemme know, I'm asking $5+shipping, and I'll have the box with me at Dayton if you want to harass me about them, then. Pat -- Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

15 years, 4 months

Help with PDP-11 Unibus Map Hardware / Software under RT-11

by jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to

Hopefully, this request is clear enough to be understood. Both the software and the hardware portion of the questions are independently important, so please answer one aspect even if you can't help with the other. Over the past 30 years of using PDP-11 software (RT-11 over 95%) and hardware, I have never had occasion to use a Unibus system with more than 256 KB of memory (such as a PDP-11/34). I would appreciate help in understanding the Unibus Map hardware which (if I understand its purpose correctly) is to convert 18 bit addresses given to a Unibus controller into 22 bit addresses for real physical memory for systems like a PDP-11/84 and perform DMA from / to the hard drive. Also helpful would be an explanation of the related software used under RT-11 along with exactly where the Unibus Map hardware is located on a real DEC system (on the CPU board I presume) since the identical CPU board is used for both the Qbus and the Unibus with both the PDP-11/84 and the PDP-11/94. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- DO NOT READ THE FOLLOWING if you don't use RT-11!!!!!!! By way of context, I have successfully modified the HD0: device driver originally written by John Wilson which obviously executes ONLY under E11. Last week, John mentioned in a private e-mail that it is possible to direct the HD0: "controller" (all references to hardware in quotes refers to E11 software) to ignore the "Unibus Map hardware". Since I execute under E11 using Qbus emulation in order to stay totally compatible with the real DEC PDP-11/23, PDP-11/73 and PDP-11/83 systems (all Qbus and all with 4 MB of physical memory) which I have available for comparison testing, user buffers in physical memory above 256 KB are often a situation which can't be avoided. Consequently, it had always been a high priority to have a 22 bit device driver for HD0: under E11 BECAUSE HD0: is TWICE as fast as MSCP (DUX.SYS device driver). In addition, I have also been able to write code that avoids the overhead of using the HD0: device driver which makes HD0: FOUR times as fast as MSCP and also allows for direct access of 2 TB of disk space via a 32 bit block number. Since I have an immediate application for a data base of 32 GB (I have a disk drive of 160 GB, so 32 GB is only 20% of its capacity - although under RT-11 15 years ago in 1992, 32 GB would have been only a dream), the code which I have written will actually be used quite soon. However, I would very much like the HD0: device driver to be able to execute under both "Qbus" and "Unibus" hardware. And while I can test the code for a "Qbus" and for a "Unibus" without a "Unibus Map", I am not clear about what is required for a "Unibus" with a "Unibus Map" such as a PDP-11/84 running under RT-11. Megan are you still watching the list? Allison, if you can't answer, can anyone but Megan help? Is anyone else familiar enough with the "Unibus Map" that you can suggest what RT-11 actually needs to do with the "Unibus Map"? A solution is to check the "hardware" configuration and refuse to allow the HD0: device driver to LOAD or .Fetch if the modified version is not executing under "Qbus hardware". By the way, if anyone who is thinking of a controller for the Qbus which is able to use SATA drives, I would be happy to modify an RT-11 device driver to an HD0: type device that is able to handle drives up to 2 TB in the same manner that DU(X).SYS can handle drives up to 8 GB. Anyone interested?? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine -- If you attempted to send a reply and the original e-mail address has been discontinued due a high volume of junk e-mail, then the semi-permanent e-mail address can be obtained by replacing the four characters preceding the 'at' with the four digits of the current year.

15 years, 6 months

Making an RT-11 boot disk

by dbetz＠xlisper.com

I'm trying to use simh to create an RT-11 bootable RX50 disk and am following some instructions posted by Megan Gentry a while ago. I've created the disk image but am having trouble making it bootable. The copy/boot command claims it can't find the RT-11 image but it is clearly on the floppy (du0). Any idea what's going wrong? .dir du0: 10-Apr-99 RT11XM.SYS 106P 20-Dec-85 DU .SYS 8P 20-Dec-85 TT .SYS 2P 20-Dec-85 PIP .SAV 30P 20-Dec-85 DUP .SAV 47P 20-Dec-85 DIR .SAV 19P 20-Dec-85 RESORC.SAV 25P 20-Dec-85 EDIT .SAV 19P 20-Dec-85 MACRO .SAV 61P 20-Dec-85 CREF .SAV 6P 20-Dec-85 LINK .SAV 49P 20-Dec-85 LIBR .SAV 24P 20-Dec-85 FILEX .SAV 22P 20-Dec-85 HELP .SAV 132P 20-Dec-85 BATCH .SAV 26P 20-Dec-85 FORMAT.SAV 24P 20-Dec-85 SETUP .SAV 41P 20-Dec-85 SPEED .SAV 4P 20-Dec-85 DATIME.SAV 4P 20-Dec-85 LET .SAV 5P 20-Dec-85 SPLIT .SAV 3P 20-Dec-85 CONFIG.SAV 7P 20-Dec-85 SWAP .SYS 27P 20-Dec-85 23 Files, 691 Blocks 95 Free blocks .copy/boot du0:rt11xm.sys du0: ?DUP-F-File not found DU0:RT11XM.SYS

15 years, 6 months

TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system)

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: TU-58s (was Re: Some progress with my PDP-11/73 system) > From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:54:24 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On 4/11/07, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote: >> But I once had a project that >> used a real DEC TU-58. Not the fastest "random" >> access device!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >They work better as "sequential" access devices - being long and thin >and travelling in one dimension, go figure. We used to optimize file >order on our console TU58s to speed up the boot times on our 11/725s >and 11/730s. Since the file order doesn't change, one just builds a >TU58 with EXCHANGE with each file following the other. The console's >8-bit-micro must cache the directory block, since the tape didn't whip >back to the start between each file. > >Using unaltered console tapes from DEC resulted in, IIRC, about 15 >minutes from turning the key to booting the hard disk. Replacing that >tape with one of our own devising shortened that pre-boot time to well >under 3 minutes. > >I'd hate to rely on a TU-58 and no other block-addressable media on a >PDP-11, though. I survived a PDP-8 with a TD8E and TU56, but it was >somewhat tedious (cool to watch, though). TU-58s weren't as cool, >IMHO. So happens one of my "small" pdp-11s uses a Tu58. the system is a BA-11V with an 11/23 256k of ram, DLV11J and MRV11 rom(boot). Takes 10 minutes to boot, setup VM: then copy key files to and reboot. After that it's pretty decent even if I have to access a file on tape. Everytime I runs it with a bunch of kids of the current PC generations they go gaga and comment on how slow then I explain the amount of ram and storage then they are amazed it can be a functional machine with so little. They can't imagine a useful machine with 32kW of ram and 256kb of storage. On the flip side I've used that same Tu58 to bring up iron that had no removable storage. It's slow but very dependable. Allison

15 years, 6 months

Where to find memory ICs?

by trixter＠oldskool.org

Have a working Intel Above Board Plus 8 with 2MB RAM and would like to populate it to the full 8MB. It will take 120ns or faster 1mbit chips -- but where can one find that kind of thing nowadays? Are those still commercially available or am I going to have to scavenge them from somewhere else? Manual lists acceptable part numbers like: Fujitsu MB81C1000P-xx Hitachi HM511000P-xxS Mitsubishi M5M41000AP-xx Motorola M5M511000P-xx NEC UPD421000C-xx NMB AAA1M100-xx OKI M511000RS-xx Samsung KM41C1000P-xx TI TMS4C1024-xx Toshiba TC511000P-xx ...etc but google searches haven't been very fruitful (that is, the pages returned when I search for IC part numbers don't return vendors with plain pricing/availability info). I just want a few tubes of these to populate the board, I'm not looking for a box of 'em :-) Any pointers? -- Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/ Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/ A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/

15 years, 8 months

Bernoulli/Syquest carts available

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

I've more of these than anyone will need and they're all brand new. 3 packs of Bernoulli 5.25 44meg disks KAO 5.25 88meg syquest disks. The label inside says they are formatted for Macs but includes software for wintel machines also. $1 each plus whatever for shipping and they're yours. Just say how many you want. -- I am not willing to give up my privacy for the false promise of 'security'

15 years, 9 months

2.11BSD Patch 445; FPSIM fixed; 211bsd runs on systems without FPP

by W.F.J.Mueller＠gsi.de

A note to all 2.11bsd users: Some time ago I looked into running 2.11bsd on systems without floating point unit. The release notes state that this is untested and unsupported, and indeed it didn't work. Robin Birch some time ago fixed part of the issues, see patch 434, but still the kernel paniced when the very first program was started. I managed to localize and fix the problem in sys/pdp/mch_fpsim.s. Steven Schultz right away issued 2.11BSD patch #445. All patches up to and including 445 are provided by Steven under ftp://sg-1.ims.ideas.gd-ais.com/pub/2.11BSD A patch level 445 system will now boot on simh for example on a set cpu 11/70 nofpp 4m configuration and work just fine, albeit a little slower. It should thus also work on a real 11/70 without FPP. I heard of some 11/70 with non-working FPP's, so this maybe good news for the owners. With best regards, Walter Mueller -- Dr. Walter F.J. M?ller Mail: W.F.J.Mueller at gsi.de GSI, Abteilung KP3 Phone: +49-6159-71-2766 D-64291 Darmstadt FAX: +49-6159-71-3762 URL: http://www-linux.gsi.de/~mueller/

16 years, 2 months

1000+ old computer in Canada, for sale

by tosteve＠yahoo.com

"Rawn's Buy & Sell Network" in Burnaby BC (Canada), says he has a warehouse fill of old computers to hopefully sell as a lot. Consists of mostly 80s and 90s systems, like Apple, Macs, IBMs, Next, Commodore, Atari, Tandy, Hyperion, etc. as well as tons of software. Here are some pics he sent me: http://members.cox.net/oldcomputerads/oldpics/old.html Do not contact me, please contact: rawnsbuysell at lightspeed.ca Enjoy! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games. http://videogames.yahoo.com/platform?platform=120121

16 years, 4 months

xt/370 e-mail problem and stacked memory chips illustrated

by michaelryan＠mindspring.com

I have added a few new pictures to the xt/370 web site showing the stacked (and non-stacked) versions of the MCM66128L20, as well as two other examples of IBM engineering that employed stacked chips (AT motherboard and PC memory card) in the early 1980's. There are 36 pairs on the AT board to get 512K and 18 pairs on the memory card to get 64K. Obviously, these chips have different pinouts (at least select). The url is:- www.xt370.net click on the link to the left, 'Memory Technology' The question a data sheet might answer is:- does one of the new MCM66128L20 parts replace one of the old stacked pairs? --- also: -- >Subject: Re: Someone in search of XT/370 software >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org> >He's on the list. I have at least some of VM/PC, but when I tried to >email him to let him know, I got an autoresponse from a white-list >agent, which sent me to an unresponsive URL. It was sufficiently >irritating that I figured it wasn't worth pursuing further. >Seriously, folks, if you're going to ask for help, don't make it >impossible for people to give. >ok >bear Bear's criticism is well-founded. I believe I have corrected the problem; I did receive the e-mails and have responded off-list. At any rate, I greatly appreciate the interest and am sorry for the inconvenience. Mike

16 years, 4 months

Mike Quinn Electronics -- one last chance

by brian＠quarterbyte.com

Hi Folks, As many of you know, the venerable Mike Quinn Electronics in San Leandro, CA (down by the Oakland Airport) closed last Saturday with virtually no advance notice. If you're in the San Francisco Bay Area, you know Mike Quinn is the one of the very last of the nitty gritty electronics salvage shops left, with an emphasis on gritty. I stopped by today, and mentioned to Maurice, the owner, that a lot of people would have liked to have had one last shot at a visit. So, he has extented an invitation to y'all to visit next week, Tuesday through Friday February 7-10, 2006, during normal business hours, for one last shopping spree. He is trying to find a buyer for the stock in the store. This is almost certainly the last chance to visit. If you can, it's worth doing whatever you have to do to make the pilgrimage. Buy some stuff to thank Maurice for keeping it going all this time. There are zillions of connectors and components, heaps of transformers and power supplies, scads of cables and keyboards and monitors and other PC junk, a jet fighter console or two, a couple of early 80's HP desktop computers (the ones with built-in BASIC, can't recall the model numbers), lots of relays, and much more, all arranged in an archaeologically interesting and un-seismically-safe way. If you need it, they have it, and they might even be able to find it. Mike Quinn Electronics 401 McCormick Street (at the corner of Adams and McCormick) San Leandro, CA 94577 Brian

16 years, 4 months

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test-drb August 2007