>> >
>> >Subject: CP/M survey
>> > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu>
>> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500
>> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>> >
>> >DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but
>> that's irrelevant to CP/M-80).
>>
>> Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it
>> was a dual CPU (has a z80).
>>
>> Allison
>
> Could it access more then 64k under CP/M-80? Don't
> you mean CP/M-86? Not to nit pick...
> I don't know about specific Rainbow revisions, but I
>was under the impression the 'bow could go up to 896k.
>Maybe I'm thinking of the Tandy 2000 via an 3rd party upgrade.
I think Mark was trying to say that an 8-bit CP/M program on the Rainbow
can only access 64k RAM, which is true, under Rainbow CP/M-86/80. A
16-bit program could access all of the Rainbow's system RAM under CP/M.
And he's also right about the memory. A 100A maxed out at 832k, while a
100B/100+ maxed out at 896k. This is because 100A models shipped with
128k on the motherboard, while 100B/100+ models shipped with 192k. So
when a maxed-out ram expansion card was installed, the 100A still had 64k
less than an equivalent 100B/100+.
One interesting thing about 16-bit programs on CP/M-86/80 on the Rainbow
was that some were confused by too much RAM. The most notable examples
are all the Rainbow ports of Infocom adventures; they all complain about
"not enough memory" if you have more than 512k or something like that.
Jeff Armstrong
jba at sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
>
>Subject: Re: CP/M survey
> From: Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:10:05 -0700 (PDT)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>
>--- Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >Subject: CP/M survey
>> > From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu>
>> > Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500
>> > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>> >
>> >DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but
>> that's irrelevant to CP/M-80).
>>
>> Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it
>> was a dual CPU (has a z80).
>>
>> Allison
>
> Could it access more then 64k under CP/M-80? Don't
>you mean CP/M-86? Not to nit pick...
No. However there was software to use the 8088 and the bulk ram
as a ramdisk.
CP/M80 (other than V3) didnt care there was more than 64k,
Applications that ran under it (mutiplan, Dbase, others)
didn't care there was more than 64k (z80 address space) as
they were all written back when 64k was a BIG system and
MMUs were uncommon.
> I don't know about specific Rainbow revisions, but I
>was under the impression the 'bow could go up to 896k.
>Maybe I'm thinking of the Tandy 2000 via an 3rd party upgrade.
The Rainbow was one of the few that could beat the 640k limits.
Allison
--------------- Original Message:
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:28:14 -0700
From: Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: CP/M survey
Just because I don't think it's been mentioned:
Vector Graphic MZ
(or are we not distinguishing between various S100 boxes..?)
Given to me a few years ago but really haven't done much with it other than to
power it up, boot CP/M from the solitary disk it came with and see that it
will load & run BASIC from the disk. Seems to be a well-built S100 box, but
with hard-sectored floppy drives and a 'unique' SSI/MSI disk controller. Also
came with a 'really dumb' terminal: just the monitor and keyboard in a
terminal case and all the terminal smarts on an S100 card back in the processor.
------------ Reply:
Aw, and I was just going to mention my MZ (although mine uses a normal terminal).
Also runs MDOS.
Also several Cromemcos (Sys 1, Sys 3, CS-300, CS-420). Also run CDOS & Cromix.
While on the subject of Cromemco and CP/M, does anyone have a late version
of CP/M (i.e. 2.2 or later) running on a Cromemco and using a hard disk (IMI or ST412)?
mike
>Ethan Dicks [ethan.dicks at gmail.com] wrote:
>[W]H-27 problems...
>I can get the system to read in the boot sector from the floppy,
>but it hangs about the time RT-11 is running far enough to
>turn the interrupts on.
Dumb question - you _do_ have the RX-01/Extended switch set to RX-01,
right? Extended mode isn't DEC compatible and the RT11 driver won't work
with it.
Bob
Hi,
Looking for any sparc based laptop (eg sparcbook,
powerlite/etc). Anything considered?
Running out of space - so need to condense my
sparc's down a bit :)
Cheers
Ian
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
I seem to have my PDP-11 system running pretty well although it is
still using a borrowed RX33 drive from a DECmate III+. I'm now
looking to assemble it into a decent looking box. I'm using a BA23
that started life as a MicroVAX I and so it has a back panel from an
MVI. Can I use the module labeled "FUNCT SEL/SLU MODULE" from the MVI
with the KDJ11-B processor? This is the module that has a rotary
switch for selecting the baud rate and a jack to plug the console
into along with a switch to control the power up mode and a display
to show the CPU status. Will the MVII panel work with the KDJ11-B
processor?
Also, does anyone have a PDP-11 badge for the front of the machine
that I can use to replace the one that says MicroVAX I?
Thanks!
David
>
>Subject: Re: CP/M survey
> From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:43:45 -0500
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> On 18 Apr 2007 at 12:28, Jules Richardson wrote:
>>
>>> I doubt there's any shortage of CP/M capable hardware owned by people on the
>>> list - there's just a shortage of CP/M "hardcore" knowledge, because the
>>> systems don't get used often enough for people to remember the real nuts and
>>> bolts.
>>
>> ...and how many of us could assemble a CP/M capable machine from
>> what's in our junkbox? Really, for a functional system, you'd need a
>> x80-capable processor, some RAM, a UART (if it's not already on the
>> processor chip) and an FDC (a WD1770/1772 will do just fine)--and a
>> bit of PROM to get it booted.
>
>Interesting; did CP/M ship with a range of UART and FDC drivers then, so you
>just tell it what particular ICs you're using and at what port addresses, and
>away it goes? Or was it more complex than that, and realistically you'd have
>to write your own comms / FDC driver which exposed some defined interface to
>CP/M itself?
No. The bios was the interface between CP/M core and the hardware and it was
hardware specific. So if you created a new system with new hardware you needed
a new bios. CP/M bios writing once understood was fairly reasonable task.
>> What there's not a lot of knowledge for are the CP/M "add-ons" such
>> as Display Manager and Access Manager and the networking (was it
>> CP/Net or something like that?).
>
>Hmm, one of my Research Machines (RML) systems has the networking add-ons; I
>think they called their implementation Z-net. Clients have enough ROM-resident
>code to invoke some form of network boot from the server - what I'm not sure
>is whether the OS image transfer is part of core "network aware CP/M" or
>whether that's a Research Machines extension (with the core stuff only really
>providing network-aware file services).
>
>The manuals are rather buried at the moment, but I seem to recall that they
>weren't exactly big on details anyway (RML were great at producing hardware
>documentation, but not so hot at writing down how the software side worked)
Unfortunatly that was common in smaller companies. There were those that
thought some aspect of their system should be "secret" to prevent copying.
Allison
>
>Subject: Re: CP/M survey
> From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com>
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:51:01 -0700
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>On 18 Apr 2007 at 12:28, Jules Richardson wrote:
>
>> I doubt there's any shortage of CP/M capable hardware owned by people on the
>> list - there's just a shortage of CP/M "hardcore" knowledge, because the
>> systems don't get used often enough for people to remember the real nuts and
>> bolts.
>
>....and how many of us could assemble a CP/M capable machine from
>what's in our junkbox? Really, for a functional system, you'd need a
>x80-capable processor, some RAM, a UART (if it's not already on the
>processor chip) and an FDC (a WD1770/1772 will do just fine)--and a
>bit of PROM to get it booted.
I could do it in hearbeat, and have.
I'd do the bios development on one of the existing long list of systems.
All of my listed systems work especially the CP/M hardware.
>At least that would be the case for CP/M 2.2. CP/M 3.0 (aka CP/M
>Plus) is a bit more of a problem, as it involves support for things
>such as time-of-day and bank-switching. The same goes for MP/M,
>which also requires a timer interrupt.
They will run on a minimal system but somethings will require the timer.
>What there's not a lot of knowledge for are the CP/M "add-ons" such
>as Display Manager and Access Manager and the networking (was it
>CP/Net or something like that?).
CPNet was a BDOSs that had complementary functions such that it would
be a good client to MPM and it didn't really specify the physical layer
(could be shared bus, serial or whatever).
>I once redid a ROM set for an IBM PC so it would boot CP/M 80 when
>equipped with a V20 CPU. I/O was handled in x88 mode. Since the V20
>supported the 8080 instruction set, did this qualify as a emulator or
>not?
Qualifies as an 8080! With a bunch of Pc hardware to impair it. ;)
Allison
>
>Subject: CP/M survey
> From: Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu>
> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:09:45 -0500
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>DEC Rainbow (8087, 832k (max for -A model), but that's irrelevant to CP/M-80).
Not true as the rainbow also ran CP/M-80/88 as it was a dual CPU (has a z80).
Allison
I have an Altos 886... have had it for some time...
unfortunately the hd doesn't access
I'm looking for the diag? disk (with low level formatter) and OS floppies.
Back when I got it, Acer referred me to a company supporting the old boxes.
When they quoted me for a set of OS disks, I laughed at them (in my head).
Now I'm wishing I had paid the money... but I didn't deem it worth while
for a hobby/toy machine at the time...
Now, all the companies that supported this stuff (that Acer has info on) are
either out of business or haven't supported those boxes in ages (and have
since disposed of all the material).
I did find someone on another mailing list I am on who had one of these
and the disks (and was fairly local to me), but before we ever could close
the loop on any of this... his e-mail address (work addr) started bouncing
as not a valid address... and he appears to have never rejoined that
list with
any other address..... (2nd miss on getting an OS for this old box).
So.... anyone got an OS and/or diag diskette(s) for an Altos 886 ?
(My best research so far seems to indicate that this box has a Xenix unique
to itself (886 model only), and last ran Xenix 3.2f ?)
Thanks,
-- Curt
