Added a search facility on http://www.soemtron.org/partsavailable/index.html
and updated Mikes sample page with more representative list of parts.
Updated home page with expanded description an aims. Since release last
Friday have had one live enquiry.
Mike.
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> On 2 Dec 2007 at 19:18, Arno Kletzander wrote:
>
> > Yes, exactly that is the class of machines I meant. There were similar
> > ones which printed on a platten carriage mounted behind the adding
> > machine body, and some of the latest electromechanical models had a
> > "type box" as a means of commenting the ledgers, invoices - whatever.
>
> Could you perhaps point me at a web photo of such a machine?
Heh...you just sent me on a journey through some of my hellboxen since I didn't remember the name of that particular machine and I had to dig out the book where it's in (Buchungsmaschinen, GMD Report No. 162, by Werner Lange). It has lots of pictures and drawings about both adding machines and bookkeeping/facturing typewriters (Wahl actuator, Burroughs-Moon-Hopkins,...) However it looks like I mixed up some stuff:
The typebox printing element depicted in the book is described as belonging to a Burroughs Typing Sensimatic - an advertisement can be seen under ebay auction number 260181621699, but this shows a typewriter keyboard in front of the adding machine part.
The keyboard with dual legends depicted in the book however (which I wrongly associated with the typebox) belongs to a German Zeiss-Ikon adder from 1958, no further classification given. The printing mechanism of this machine is described to consist of three disks or typewheels able to print a set of 42 characters.
Greetings,
--
Arno Kletzander
Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten
Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser
>
>Subject: Re: Bought a 4GB USB stick today, and guess what...
> From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell)
> Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:58:19 +0000 (GMT)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>> >And of course a 4040 from Intel is a 4-bit microprocessor, from RCA it's
>> >a 12 bit CMOS counter. I can never rememebr what the 4004 is in the
>> >4000-eries CMOS, it's sufficiently rare that none of the data books I
>> >have to hand list it.
>>
>>
>> ur kiddin. Just prefix 74{c, hc, hct} and the 4xxx number and you
>> get it's function and pinout.
>
>None of my data books list a 74HC4004 either. Does it even exist?
I have data but in 1973 it was already replaced by 4024 a 7 stage
binary counter.
>
>The 74HC4040 exists, and as expected it's a 12 bit ripple counter.
That and the 4060 (14stge counter) are still widely used.
>> However for us who kept those old and valuable manuals like Signetics
>> 8xxx series and the RCA databook series (my 1973 set was some 8 books)
>> I do have data for RCA 4xxx and a lot of other oddities.
>
>I haev never thrown out a databook. Darn it, I've got an Ericson databook
>for Dekatrons and Trochotroncs, etc. And a valve databook from the 1940s
>that has printed on almost every page 'Supply of this device cannot be
>guaranteed due to the current situatio' (that is, of course, WW2).
;) That and my RCA powe tube manuals from the 50s, 60s and even
a 1970 copy.
Whats scary is that I have old databooks to support the old parts
I HAVE and use.
Allison
>-tony
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:18:11 +0100
From: "Arno Kletzander" <Arno_1983 at gmx.de>
Subject: Mechanical calculators (was: Re: *updating* 8088's)
M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
>> The IBM unit record or Tabulating machines that we've been discussing
>> had their roots in the same principles as these calculators, adding
>> machines and cash registers (...)
>Thanks for that interesting piece of history! Nice insight into the workings of
>unit record equipment, a quite fascinating category of data processing in itself.
>My contribution however was not targeted at the IBM equipment thread, btw.
-------
MHS:
I realized that, which is why I left the original subject line. I just thought it was
a relevant and interesting link to the other thread about IBM punch card equipment
which was very similar in function but replaced manual entry with punched cards;
the second part of my reply dealt with the type you're talking about.
------
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote:
> > This stirs a vague recollection of an old mechanical adding machine I
> > once had, the kind that had a big rectangular array of buttons instead
> > of just a "10-key" set of numbers. I have *no* idea how it stored a
> > number in there, though.
>
> (...)
>
> When you mention the big array of keys, I think of a comptometer.
> There's a nice discussion on the web:
>
> http://www2.cruzio.com/~vagabond/ComptHome.html
>
> But the item I'm thinking of was alphanumeric, more like a Teletype.
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck
Yes, exactly that is the class of machines I meant. There were similar ones which printed on a platten carriage mounted behind the adding machine body, and some of the latest electromechanical models had a "type box" as a means of commenting the ledgers, invoices - whatever. The letters were assigned as secondary functions to some of the keys and the machine would print those instead of accepting numeric input when it was in a column definded for comments (which was done by sticking pegs into a programming board moving together with the carriage).
--
Arno Kletzander
------
MHS:
And those were the "posting" or "accounting" machines I was talking
about; in the Burroughs line that I worked with, the electro-mechanical
ones equivalent to the IBM punch card equipment we've been discussing
were the "Sensimatic" F series, programmed by a removable program panel
with two sets of "pins," one that determined the actual operation to be performed
and sort of equivalent to the IBM patchboards, and another to control
carriage movement (sort of equivalent to the forms control tapes of an IBM
40x). The panels had a selector knob which rotated the tab stops to four different
sets of positions and shifted 4 sets of program pins sideways slightly, so that one
panel served for four "programs" and of course you could have as many panels
as you needed. Incidentally, Fs could optionally also punch PPT & cards.
I had three of these at one time, but scrapped them all long ago.
The later electronic versions were the "E" series; a good brochure with
pictures of a type of computer largely ignored in the various histories
(although there's a brief mention in The Encyclopedia of Microcomputers),
with core memory and magnetic stripe & PPT/EPC I/O, can be found here:
http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Burroughs/Burroughs.E1400…
(Chuck: change the colour, remove the cabinet on the left and put it on tubular legs
and you've got the picture you're looking for - remove the alpha keyboard for one
of the older numeric-only models ;-)
This is a fairly small one with the electronics in the desk itself (although you
can see the thick cable connecting the console to the processor), and it is still
programmed with the same type of program panel; the cabinet on the right is
a 4003 auto-reader for magnetic stripe cards, usually master file records whose
data was usually merged/combined with the data on the mag stripes of the
transaction cards feeding through the carriage. Larger models (E2000 etc.)
had a separate electronics cabinet the size of a large freezer.
Come to think of it, I still have the desk from an E1200 I scrapped long ago which
is presently supporting a Cromemco System 3, and also still have one of the tape
perforators you can see on the right side of the E1200 in that brochure, as well as
a few other odd parts...
The "E" series was later replaced by the "L" series which finally abandoned
the full keyboard and used "normal" machine language programs loaded from
PPT or ledger cards (and, later, cassettes). That was the machine, incidentally,
which got me out of being an "employee" and took me into self-employed
programming, consulting and support, which is what I've been doing for the
last thirty-odd years, so I have fond memories of it...
The last Burroughs machines of this class were the B80 & B90 which used
disks and represented the transition to more conventional computers, with
optional displays and terminals, datacomm etc.
m
> From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk
>>
> You might be confusing this issue with another one. That is, the power
> supply control circuitry needs to be powered. Once the supply is
> running, it; can be powered from one of the outputs of said supply, but
> at swich-on, the power supply outputs are all 0, to the power control
> circuitry is not powered, so the supply can't do anything, so the outputs
> remain at 0.
>
Hi Tony
No, I'm not confused. If the feedback circuit isn't running, there is
no feedback. The feedback is such that it is positive at the interface
between the low and high side. This way a failure in the feedback
would bring the supply output to zero.
To Make this work, there needs to be some way of getting things
started. There is a oneshot on the high side that gives the supply
a single kick on powering on. This also gets enough voltage to
start the overall feedback that is negative from the output to the high
side. It is just enough to blink some LEDs.
A clever circuit but hard to trouble shoot. The first kick is
so short, it is hard to catch on a meter and distinguish between
lack of feedback and the over voltage protection( which also kills the
feedback at the interface ).
I spent time analyzing the overvoltage parts before realizing
that it was a complete lack of feedback that was the problem
and not the over voltage protection. The problem traced to
an open ( poor solder ) inside the pulse transformer that
connected the low side to the high side and provided the
pulse width modulation for the supply.
I'd call it a tricky circuit because as you seem to consider,
it goes against common sense in that no feedback is no
output. No feedback just means no pulse modulation and
hence no output.
As I also stated, the DEC supply most likely used a second
powersource for the regulation feedback.
Dwight
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i?m Initiative now.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
A fellow in Sweden is offering some very nice PDP8 gear,
including a loaded PDP-8/E chassis, an RK05, and some
additional peripherals. For you folks on the other side
of the pond, here's your chance. He's eBay savvy,
however, so expect to have to make a serious offer.
You can find more info at his website:
http://www.neab.net/pdp-8e/
Of particular interest is an extremely rare MR873a
Microprocessor ROM Programmer, which appears to
interface to the PDP8.
I have no connection with the seller other than as the
buyer for a few of his eBay auctions.
--Bill
M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net> wrote:
> The IBM unit record or Tabulating machines that we've been discussing
> had their roots in the same principles as these calculators, adding
> machines and cash registers (...)
Thanks for that interesting piece of history! Nice insight into the workings of unit record equipment, a quite fascinating category of data processing in itself.
My contribution however was not targeted at the IBM equipment thread, btw.
"Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
> "Roy J. Tellason" <rtellason at verizon.net> wrote:
> > This stirs a vague recollection of an old mechanical adding machine I
> > once had, the kind that had a big rectangular array of buttons instead
> > of just a "10-key" set of numbers. I have *no* idea how it stored a
> > number in there, though.
>
> (...)
>
> When you mention the big array of keys, I think of a comptometer.
> There's a nice discussion on the web:
>
> http://www2.cruzio.com/~vagabond/ComptHome.html
>
> But the item I'm thinking of was alphanumeric, more like a Teletype.
>
> Cheers,
> Chuck
Yes, exactly that is the class of machines I meant. There were similar ones which printed on a platten carriage mounted behind the adding machine body, and some of the latest electromechanical models had a "type box" as a means of commenting the ledgers, invoices - whatever. The letters were assigned as secondary functions to some of the keys and the machine would print those instead of accepting numeric input when it was in a column definded for comments (which was done by sticking pegs into a programming board moving together with the carriage).
--
Arno Kletzander
GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS.
Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail
Quoting Clint:
> I have a "spare" 11/750 supply that I can loan you. Since it is out of a
> machine, I'd need to get it back eventually. If you can troubleshoot it
> down to a single board I can loan that as well (to save on shipping)
> I'd also suggest you measure the resistance between +/-15V and ground on
> the backplane without any cards plugged in. A bad capacitor or shorted
> pin could make the supply current limit trip as well.
Let me do some further testing, maybe under Tony's guidance, and we'll see what
happens. This could be a good fallback if needed. Thanks for the offer. Let's
leave this on the table for now.
- Jared
I'm trying to get a few RM02 drives going, which I picked up about a
month ago. I can't get the RH11 I've got to talk to the MBA (Massbus
adapter) in the drive (it reports a 'timeout'), and I think I've traced
down the fault to a problem with the massbus transceiver, but wouldn't
mind someone else taking a look at this...
On page 2 of the M5922 schematics, signal AA2 DEMAND A H is generated
>from a 75108. It looks like the signals "IF5 PORT A ON H" and the
global enable from the switch on the board are both high and "MASS FAIL
H" is low (and thus "AA2 MASS FAIL A L" is high). When the controller
toggles the DEM(and) line on the massbus, I see "MASS DEM A H"
and "MASS DEM A L" at pins BV2 and BV1, respectively, change state, but
the output "AA2 DEMAND A H" stays low.
Any ideas? I guess that either the 7417 at E3 could be defective, or
the 75108 at E17 could be to blame. Or, is there something else that
I'm missing?
BTW, after staring at the MASS FAIL logic for a while, I looked up a
datasheet for a 7417, and realized that it's just a buffer, and not an
inverter (as it's drawn in the print set).
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCAC --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
