>
>Subject: 8" disk drive project
> From: Grant Stockly <grant at stockly.com>
> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:04:47 -0900
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>I want to use a QUME 842 or SA800 in an altair disk subsystem.
>
>Both seem to have the same interface.
>
>The FD400-5x0-5x1 manual seems to show the drives being quite similar.
>
>The first thing I see is that there are extra signals.
>
>"Trim Erase", "Write Enable", and "Write Data" where the Shugart
>interface only has "Write Data" and "Write Gate". I assume that gate
>and enable are the same thing. The FD Pertec drives also have "IN",
>"OUT", and "STEP" instead of "STEP" and "DIRECTION", but that is not
>a big deal. That can be generated in software.
Trimerase is usually jumpered to Write-enable.
>What I don't see is any input to perform the function of head
>current. How does the shugart interface handle this?
Not all drives required or used it.
>Can I ignore the trim erase feature?
No.
>How do I generate a write busy
>signal? I'm willing to make some circuits to fake these signals if required.
Write busy is easy set a oneshot on write enable and use the output as
a response. If you think about it why sould you need write busy if
your busy writing? However some used that as a Door lock signal
to prevent opening a door during write.
The 8" interface world is generally complicated by difference names,
pinouts and signals for the same or very similar signals. That and
just as many signals and options that go unsued or just not required.
Allison
>Thanks,
>Grant
>
>Subject: Re: modern serial terminal
> From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com>
> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:17:38 -0800 (PST)
> To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
>
>> > You're going to have to 'splain that one to me, Lucy. There were
>> > plenty of bitmapped graphics machines for the home market.
>>
>> Name is not lucy. The LISA and MAC I consider BITMAPPED.
>> C64's and others had sprite graphics. Amiga and Atari(sp)
>> were maketed as games machines. The APPLE II split screen
>> I liked for text on the bottom (FAST) , graphics on the top
>> slow. Only the development of fast 2D graphics cards even
>> make modern software usable.
>
>You have an odd taxonomy here. The Amigas and Atari (STs and otherwise)
>computers were not marketed strictly as game machines (or else you should
>include the C64 in that category). And they are most definitely bitmapped.
>
>The C64 has sprite graphics, but it definitely has a bitmapped graphics
>mode. It's somewhat more inconvenient to work in because of its cell-
>oriented arrangement, but it's bitmapped.
>
>So, I'm not sure where you're drawing the line here, but all of the machines
>you mention have bitmapped graphics and were home computers, except perhaps
>the Lisa, but only due to cost.
Comentary:
The problem as initially launched was small inexpensive terminal "box"
of insignificant size that used PC display and keyboard. Paraphrased
more or less.
One, most applications that use "terminals" are non graphic or if they do
it's low res and minimal. If that were not true my Vt125 and VT340 would
see more action as they are both graphic and support color.
With that most terminals are text, 80x24 or 80x25 and some can do 132x20.
The "terminal" is expected to comply with ANSI escapes, VT52 or ADM1/3
typically to be most useful. This is often important to editors and
many other applications that do screen handling.
With that anything with more than an 8051, character cell display is
likely over kill and under utilization. The simplest home brewed
terminal I'd seen was a computime SBC880 (z80,1k ram, 2k rom, 1 serial
IO and a parallel IO) and a PT VDM1 (yes it's 64x16lines) though a 80x24
card could be used. The whole mess was wrapped in a minibox with PS
measureing 12x7x4 inches making it smaller than the monitor and
serial keyboard used. It did a fair (limited to 64x16) VT52 emulation
with soft scroll and no flashing and could support 19.2kbaud serial
rates. The guy that bilt it spent $200 for the boards, 2 S100 connectors
and power supply, aluminum box and even a 9" B&W monitor back in 1982.
I'd think with current parts [one of the 8051 clones or eZ80 and a CPLD]
a 80x25 terminal could be put on a 4x5" card with minimal effort. The
output should drive a standard PC tube/LCD with one selectable color
and use a PC keyboard power would come from a wall wart.
Personally a VT320 with a mono LCD rather than a CRT would be ideal
and much more compact at 2 peices total (display and keyboard).
Allison
>--
>------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
> Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
>-- BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "All-Time High" from "Octopussy" -------------------
I have found your following post by Google when I was
trying to solve the same problem.
--------------------------------------------------
Hi
I have the system unit for a Victor V286C PC
manufactured in
1991. Its in really nice condition.
Keyboard and mouse are no problem. However the display
is a different
matter. It has a nine pin
display connector which would make it a CGA ,MGA or
Hercules output.
Anybody any ideas as to where I might find a matching
monitor?
Rod Smallwood
----------------------------------------------------
I could not find any solutions on the Internet, and
then start experiment. I have found ISA video card
with standard vga-connector, put it to the top ISA
slot... and have no effect. Then I switched a jumper
near ISA slot to DISABLE position and miracle happend.
:) By the way, DIP switch on the back panel of system
unit was in the following position: 1-on, 2-on,
3-off, 4-on, 5-off, 6-off.
__________________________________________________
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It isn't necessarily the motor either; I've seen a couple units that
require some kind of "disc present" feedback from the laser diode before
they spin....lots of adjustments possible here. I'd start checking power
supplies, and putting a scope on the motor drive, might tell you if you're
barking up the right tree.
As for motors though, I've found slow speed computer CDROM drives can have
compatible motors -- if you find one that will mount properly. I got sick
of trying to find compatible parts; and so, I've been working on converting
a 101-disc cd audio changer for use with data cds and dvds.
T.H.x.
Devon
(I hope this doesn't upset Jay. I think it's on-topic according to the
semi-bogus the ten-year rule, and it's certainly on-topic in the
non-mainstream sense - what I'm trying to do is well outside the norm.
Except, possibly, for populations like the one on this list. :)
I have a Technics SL-PD8 five-disc CD changer. It's been working fine
for a long time; in recent months, it's had trouble ejecting the tray
(but not, interestingly, retracting it).
Then a day or two ago it stopped playing discs at all. I can't even
hear the disk spinning up.
So I opened it up, and I have been completely unable to make the disc
drive motor spin, with or without a CD in place. I've pulled it apart
far enough to have the CD transport mechanism out in the open, and it
still won't spin. (In the process, I found the stretched belt that was
responsible for the weak eject; I dug through my rubber band collection
and replaced it, and now the tray eject works fine.)
Now, I'm not Tony; I'm not about to rewind the motor or some such. But
I was wondering if anyone knows how similar the mechanism is likely to
be to a cheap computer CD reader - basically, I'm wondering if I can
raid one of my extra CD drives (of which I have several) for parts to
resurrect the Technics. I can just open things up and have a look, but
if anyone has experience, it could save me some headaches.
Any thoughts?
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
respond offlist please?
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At 01:42 PM 10/19/2007, you wrote:
>Grant Stockly wrote:
>>What do you guys think? The thing has a peripheral expansion header.
>>We could hook a modern floppy chip to that, connectors for
>>different drives, and off we go...
>
>What's the cost like? Is the board made up of separate components
>(CPU, ROM, RAM, USB chip, buffers for I/O, Ethernet chip etc.)?
>
>I'd find Ethernet more useful than USB, and in an ideal world I'd
>prefer a board where the functional areas are segregated (rather
>than some complex and expensive single chip, where if disaster
>strikes the thing basically needs throwing out and replacing as a
>complete unit)
The base eZ80SBC from howard is $250. Add $100 for the disk board...
-----REPLY-----
Hi,
By the time you add in all the costs of the CPU board with IO, case, power
supply, cables, documentation, plus the specialized disk controller, AND
write most if not all of the software this project is quickly going to
become uneconomical for all but the most patient and financially well off.
You could use a throw away old 486 or Pentium II computer with ISA and/or
PCI slots to provide any interface you'd like (ethernet, SCSI, ST506, USB,
whatever) for a whole lot less time and effort. A double sided 48tpi floppy
drive will read practically any format given the right controller. The same
can be done for whatever sort of drive you'd like to test.
I have made and am using a few bench stations for testing floppy drives,
ST506/ST412 hard drives, SCSI, etc for a small fraction of what the cost you
are proposing. I am sure many others here are doing the same thing as well.
In addition, reusing old PCs effectively removes them from the waste stream
which is not only economical it is environmentally friendly as well. Get a
small enough PC and they are portable assuming you choose standard interface
for peripherals like VGA, PS/2 keyboards & mice, etc.
On top of the above, as an added bonus much of the software is already
written. You can use ImageDisk for soft sector floppy disks, SpinRite II
for ST506/ST412 hard disks, etc.
Respectfully, it seems like the proposals being discussed are reinventing
the wheel by developing and/or repurposing a new CPU and IO board rather
than reusing proven and cost effective solutions which already exist.
It is just my $0.02. Best of luck with your project. Thanks!
Andrew Lynch
>
>Subject: Re: Kaypro 4/84 questions
> From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com>
> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2007 15:27:29 -0800 (PST)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>On Mon, 5 Nov 2007, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
>> selecting the drive should be apparent as Kaypros tend to leave the light on
>> all the time.
>> > Will it be supported in some manner by the software?
>> Hm, kinda doubtful, though I couldn't say for sure as it's been a long time
>> since I dove into those particular interface specs.
>
>There WERE patches available for using 720K (3.5" or 5.25") drives on
>Kaypros.
>
>"Advent"?
Advent supports both 720k and 781K formats on DSDD 96tpi 5.25 or 3.5"
Advent Turborom with the Advent disk personality board. I have both in mine
One floppy is the 48tpi two sided half height, the other is 3.5" in a PC 5.25"
adaptor and inside I have a third 3.5" as a default boot drive. Lots of storage.
Allison
>MicroCornucopia?
>Chuck might know.
>
>
I saw this from Bill Whitson dated 1997 on the web,
Bill,
I saw your list of classic computers. Now over 10 years old but - Great!!
I am looking for more info on this computer >>
Control Data Corp.------------------------------------------------
Model 110 6809 64K ?? MICRO 83
I would appreciate anything - more specs or a photo(s)?
I do have the CDC announcement of the product in the NYTimes and it was
September 14, 1981.
http://query.nytimes.com <http://query.nytimes.com/>
It was "priced at $4,995" with "business and educational applications cost
between $625 and $4000"
I am not sure when (or if) the product actually was available for shipment.
Thanks,
Larry G. DeVries
Eden Prairie, Minn.
952-949-9604
Hello folks,
I picked up a couple of Intertec Superbrains last week, and have
finally got around to cracking the cases. One has memory problems, the
other has keyboard problems.
I'm fairly sure the one with memory problems is down to a faulty 4116,
but I can't work out how to find out which one it is. I'm guessing it's
in the lower part of memory, because although the system boots it hasn't
got enough marbles to run DDT.COM - if I could get that working I could
prod around in memory until I found the stuck bit.
The keyboard problem on the other one is a bit odd - not all the keys
work (haven't worked out the pattern but it *seems* like the outer three
on the ends of each row work, the middle ones being dead), and the key
repeat starts instantly. I'm a tad concerned that this is a sign of a
dying keyboard controller chip - I doubt I'll ever find another,
although if it was a problem I'd just program up a PIC to do its job.
Any thoughts? Is there a way to trick CP/M into loading DDT into higher
memory?
Gordon
