test-drb October 2007

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

228 participants
467 discussions

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Grant asks: > Is there anyone in here who is qualified to give advice on > taxes? I've made a few computer kits and am still deep into the > hole. No money made, so no profit. I want to know what to expect I > have to do for the tax man. A lot of money has changed hands with no > gains for me. I hope I don't owe anyone anything. > I've got a few more computer kits on the back burner, but its not > worth it to me to continue if there are tax implications. > Not trying to get free services, just free advice. : ) Respond off > list if you want to help a fellow vintage computer guy. I am NOT qualified, but my two cents, on the situation in the US: 1. Any money you have coming in has to be reported as income somewhere. 2. It's possible that you can report it (at least in the US) on schedule C as a sole proprietership and deduct your expenses. Just because you lost money in your first year doesn't mean it's not a "business activity". But if you don't have any hope or plan to turn it into something profit-making, it's probably a hobby. Under some circumstances hobby expenses might be itemized deductions if you itemize, but the deductions cannot exceed gross income from the hobby. This would mean for example that if you spent $10,000 on parts and expenses, but only sold $3,000 worth of stuff, that at least you won't have to pay income tax on the $3000. This area is a little hairy. There are some potentially onerous taxes associated with stocking large quanties of parts/assemblies/computers that might be of value to your business, depending on how your locality figures inventory taxes. Sitting on inventory more than a year or two can be incredibly costly if your jurisdiction has inventory taxes. IRS Publication 535 has some of the tests for whether it's a hobby or a business. Tim.

17 years, 2 months

DEC parts available

by pat＠computer-refuge.org

Last week, I picked up a load of DEC parts from a company that had recently moved off of some of their older PDP-11 equipment in a large-scale "process control" environment. I've got available two H9644 racks with BA11-K chassis in them, four more de-racked BA11-K's (all 10.5" tall, I think they all have a 9-slot unibus backplane in them - no boards other than the random G727 grand card - and I have rails for all of them). I'll probably have more parts available soon, but this is what I want to work on redistributing first. All of this is in downtown Lafayette, IN. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

17 years, 2 months

5-1/4 diskette drive on current computers

by ballsandy＠msn.com

I see why not. I still see Intel/AMD boards that come out with support for the 5 1/4" drive but it's becoming more and more uncommon. My MSI K7N2 Delta2-LSR can support one 5 1/4" drive. I have also had success both read and writing 5 1/4" floppies on Windows XP professional also. As a matter of fact, XP was the last OS from micro$oft to include built-in support for 5 1/4" floppies. Nothing says that the die-hards won't patch Vista and bring back 5 1/4" support. _________________________________________________________________ R U Ready for Windows Live Messenger Beta 8.5? Try it today! http://entertainment.sympatico.msn.ca/WindowsLiveMessenger

17 years, 2 months

Good finds this weekend

by richardlynch3＠tx.rr.com

I went to that Nortex Electronics sale in Ft. Worth Texas this weekend, and while the vast majority of items in 3 large buildings was test and a/v equipment and parts, along with a lot of junk, I was able to ferret out a few interesting computer-related items stashed in corners. There was probably more there, but a lot was packed, stacked and inaccessible (including a couple of VAX cabinets that looked semi-parted out at a distance), and I ran out of time. Almost everything is in nice, average used condition, very presentable considering the age of some of the documents: Manuals - Teletype manuals in original blue/gray binders with cover sheets -- Parts/Model 28 Compact KSR And RO/Bulletin 1197B/July 1964 (original) -- Parts/Model 28 Page Printer Set (KSR &RO)/Bulletin 1149B/June 1965 (change 13) -- Description and Principles of Operation/Model 28 KSR and RO/Bulletin 216B/Feb 1964, change 4 - May 1971 -- Maintenance Tools/Bulletin 1124B/Feb 1962 (change 3) -- Technical Manual/High Speed Tape Punch Set (BRPE)/Bulletin 215B/March 1963 (change 4) -- Parts/Model 37 Page Printer Set (KSR-RO)/Bulletin 1209B/June 1970 (change 3) -- Technical Manual/Motor Units (MU, LMU, YMU)/Bulletin 295B/(2 versions) Jan 1967 (change 1), Feb 1973 (change 4) -- Parts/Paper Winders (LPW, PW)/Bulletin 1129B/(4 versions) Nov 1959, Mar 1966, May 1970, Dec 1970 -- Parts/33 Page Printer Set (ASR, KSR and RO)/Bulletin 1184B/Dec 1970, change 13 - Feb 1971 -- Technical Manual/33 Teletypewriter Sets (RO, KSR, ASR)/Bulletin 310B Vol 1/June 1969 (original) -- Technical Manual/33 Teletypewriter Sets (RO, KSR, ASR)/Bulletin 310B Vol 2/March 1971 (change 2) -- Technical Manual/32 and 33 Teletypewriter Sets (KSR, RO, ASR)/Bulletin 273B/Nov 1964 (change 4) - Large blue Honeywell binder with Teletype information, including several change order sheets and custom modification descriptions, along with both of the Model 33 technical manual volumes dated 1974, and the parts manual dated 1973. - Large black generic binder with several Model 32/33 manuals without cover sheets dated 1964 ? 1967 - FAA Manual 6170.6/Maintenance of Teletypewriter Terminal Equipment/June 16, 1973 - Digital VT125 User Guide/1st Edition Sept 1981 - Remex Technical Manual, Perforator System and Tape Reader/Perforator System, Models RPS612XBA, RPF612XBA/1975 - Tandon Operating and Service Manual, TM100 Disk Drives/1981 - DEC PDT-11/150 User Guide/1st edition, Feb 1979 (copy) - TI Silent 700 Model 742 Operating Instructions with Supplement/1 June 1975 - Visual 200 Video Display Terminal Reference Manual/March 1980 - TI Model 980A Computer Maintence Manual/Electrical Drawings Vol VII/15 Feb 1973 (in light blue TI plastic binder) - Pro-Log Brochure/Series 90 PROM Programmer featuring the M980 Control Unit/May 1981 - Pro-Log Series 90 PROM Programmer Operating Manual/Oct 1975 - Heathkit Manual/Microprocessor Trainer Model ET-3400/1977 (with 2 change pages) - Friden Service Operation & Adjustment Manual (Motorized Reader and Punch, Regeneration, Comparator, Regen Comparator)/Dec 13, 1962 (with schematic of Add Punch Model APT dated Nov 14, 1957) - intel MCS-85 Handbook (Preliminary)/Feb 1977 - intel 8080 Microcomputer System Manual/Jan 1975 - intel 8080 Microcomputer Systems User?s Manual/Sept 1975 - Light blue paper folder with intel logos, containing a few letters and forms (Software Problem Report and Library Submittal Form) for the Intellec 8/MOD 8 and /MOD 80, a brochure for the imm8-90 High Speed Paper Tape Reader, and two paper tapes: one labeled ?Intellec 8/MOD 8 Monitor Ver 3.0?, and another with the same wording except with additional ?Monitor Installation Tape?. One of the letters in the folder describes the intended use of the paper tapes. - Generic black binder with more intel documentation: -- Programming Manual for the 8080 Microcomputer System, Volumes 1 and 2, Preliminary Edition, May 1974 -- Intellec 8/Mod 80 Microcomputer Development System Reference Manual/no date on front, copyright 1974 on back -- 8080 Assembly Language Programming Manual/copyright 1974 on front - Lockheed-California CADAM Training Manual, in original binder, March 1980 - SD Sales Z8800 CPU Card manual/no date - Pacific Data Systems Brochure/An Introduction to the PDS 1020 Digital Computer/with survey insert addressed to the Data Systems Branch Chief of NASA/no date - Pacific Data Systems/An Engineer?s Guide to the PDS 1020/April 1964/(copies of change pages replacing originals in spots) - Pacific Data Systems/Machine Reference Handbook/April 1964 - Generic binder containing several copied Application Notes for the PDS 1020 from 1964 and 1965 - Generic binder containing a copy of summaries of software available for the PDS 1020/Feb 1965 - Generic binder containing what looks like a printout of specific PDS 1020 software program descriptions, including flowcharts and assembly language listings/no date - SYMTEC PGSIII (graphics generator for Apple II) documentation, probably incomplete, with copies of some floppies, no hardware - Saturn Systems 64K/128K RAM board Operations Manual (for Apple II)/1982 - Apple ][e Owner?s Manual/1985 - Apple Monochrome Monitor IIe Owner?s Guide Hardware - DRC 16K EPROM S100 board, unused, no EPROMs installed, with copy of manual - MITS 8K PROM S100 board, Rev 0-X2(J.D.), 1976, no EPROMs installed, with copy of schematic - small wire-wrapped, socketed board with about 20 TI TTL chips with date codes mostly in 1970, connector has 31 fingers on a side, small handwritten label says ?CNTRL (A5)? - One Apple ][ computer, no boards - Three Apple ][ Plus computers, no boards - One Apple ][e computer with 3 boards, including 1 double board of unknown use showing the name ?Collins? with 3 external cables: 25-pin(f), 37-pin(f) and 37-pin(m) - any ideas what this is? - Radio Shack TRS-80 Printer Controller (PTC-64), still in the box Books (mostly with markings showing originally from the LTV Computer Dept Technical Library) - Computer Organization and the System/370, Katzan, 1971 - System/370 Job Control Language, Brown, 1977 - Computer Graphics, Gruenberger, 1967 - The Transition to On-Line Computing, Gruenberger, 1967 - Digital Tape Drives, Taunt, 1965 - Information Processing for Management, BEMA, 1969 - The Computer and the Executive, Kanter, 1967 - IBM Electronic Circuit Analysis Program Techniques and Applications, Jensen and Lieberman, 1968 - PL/I Programming Primer, Weinberg, 1966 - VAX Architecture Reference Manual, DEC Books, 1987 - Honeywell Instrumentation Handbook, 2nd Edition, 1970, contains a couple of pages on the DDP-516 and H316, with a picture of the ?Kitchen Computer? although it?s not called that in this book Magazines - Popular Electronics -- 1975: Aug, Nov (Altair 680 on cover), Dec -- 1976: Jan, Feb (TV Dazzler on cover), Mar, Apr, Jun, Jul (SOL on cover) -- 1977: Mar - Radio Electronics April 1970 (Penniac - $150 Game Computer on cover) Software - Lot of 8? floppies, about 5 unused boxes, also several used disks with labels indicating some kind of IBM software (?EDX002?, ?ASMLIB?, others) - Xerox 6060 Family floppies and manuals Richard Lynch

17 years, 2 months

adobe machine room?

by legalize＠xmission.com

This discussion of 3-phase power and VAXen in your home and the big Amdahl machine transport has reminded me again of my desire to have some sort of controlled environment for my big SGI boxes. I have a rather large lot and I considered building a Henk style machine room on my property attached to the back of the garage. My idea was to build a machine room adjacent to the garage and have a large set of doors put on the back of the garage so that equipment would be loaded/unloaded through the garage into the machine room. However, it gets pretty frosty in winter time here and pretty toasty in summer time. (I'm in Salt Lake City, UT.) Recently there was some program on TV touting the benefit of adobe construction for its high insulating value and keeping a relatively constant indoor temperature with little to no active heating or cooling. That got me to thinking that if you built a machine room with an adobe exterior, then you'd only need AC equipment to compensate for heat generated by the machines themselves and wouldn't need to worry much about the seasons. Any thoughts on this? Note that I'm not suggesting going without any active cooling, just wondering if adobe construction would lower the bills and make the necessary cooling equipment smaller. -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

17 years, 2 months

Tandy Logix-Kosmos (was: Re: Ferranti Logical Computor (1951) )

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 15:42 -0500 10/16/07, Brent wrote: >Also reminds me of the Kosmos (from Germany) "computer"/(switching)-logic >trainer from the late-60s/early-70s I received as a kid. I think Radio Shack >marketed it over here for a while, later in the 70s. ...and you have just reminded me of the name (see subject). I had one too. <google> ... ah. http://oldcomputermuseum.com/logix_kosmos.html Power supply, 10 bulbs across the top, 10 slides, each slide opened or closed 5 sets of contacts (functioning as a 5PDT switch), and a pushbutton. Each contact had 3 holes, as did the power supply and the lights. By placing jumper wires, you enabled "gates" to create the logic. You'd slide the slides to generate the input, then press the pushbutton to provide current. The lights would illuminate to generate the output. There were paper fold-ups to place inside the light housing so that the output could be pictographic, and to slide into a holder to label the slides. It's more or less the next step up from the "Digi-Comp" (3 bits -> 10 bits), except that it can't affect its own state. But you could implement "feedback" manually, by sliding slides when the bulb above them was illuminated. I quite clearly remember watching the Star Trek episode where Spock determines that the Enterprise's computer has been tampered with by beating it at chess, and thinking it'd take some pretty hot wiring to get the Logix-Cosmos to play chess, so I'd better get started. I never did figure out how to make the overlays work... Mine died of corrosion on the contacts, and was (regrettably) trashed, I'm pretty sure. -- - Mark, 210-379-4635 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Large Asteroids headed toward planets inhabited by beings that don't have technology adequate to stop them: Think of it as Evolution in Fast-Forward.

17 years, 2 months

Old word processor

by tomhudson＠execpc.com

A friend and I were talking yesterday and it turns out he has an old Smith Corona PWP 100C word processor that he wants to get rid of. I think he'll unload it to anyone who'll pay to have it packed up and shipped. Not sure how functional it is, but it struck me as something someone on the list might want. Let me know if you're interested and I'll forward your note. -Tom -- Thomas Hudson http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

17 years, 2 months

Taken: AT 286 motherboard with mathco

by dm561＠torfree.net

---------------Original Message: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:29:40 -0600 From: "e.stiebler" <emu at e-bbes.com> Subject: Re: Taken: AT 286 motherboard with mathco M H Stein wrote: >> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:53:06 -0600 >> From: "e.stiebler" <emu at e-bbes.com> >> Subject: Re: Taken: AT 286 motherboard with mathco > >> I think people worked/played more with the computer more back then. >> Meaning wrote utilities, improved stuff, changed something, and were >> proud if it. > > Really??? Have you browsed the Internet lately and seen the amount of > software & mods out there, and the just wild and crazy things that people > are doing with their PCs? I wasn't talking about repainting the case. > Seems to me there are a heck of a lot *more* > people writing utilities, improving stuff etc. today, and far more complex > and sophisticated stuff at that (especially since there's so much more > room for improvement ;-). I really don't think so. Go on this modding groups, and check, how much background info they really have. They just take a motherboard, put a water cooler on it and wait until it falls apart by over clocking it. I was talking about people crawling into their computers with an soldering iron without hurting themselfes ;-) Cheers -------------Reply: I wasn't talking about painting cases or water cooling either, although if you include the esthetics of the computer even that would count for something; a really snazzy custom paint job and custom case can be just as much of an accomplishment as building a serial card for your Apple. Admittedly it's not practical or possible any longer to make any useful mods to a modern motherboard itself, but you were talking about "writing utilities, improving stuff and changing things;" sounds like that wouldn't necessarily involve a soldering iron (aside from the fact that today you'd use a heat gun), but *would* include the vast amount of open-source stuff out there and all that other software written by folks just for the fun of doing it, far more and often much better quality than a lot of the stuff of the "good old days." As a matter of fact I'd say that even most people just using Linux would probably qualify. And then there's the fact that what took many nights of soldering ICs, caps and resistors back then is now a matter of programming an FPGA or any of the modern replacements for discrete logic; because of the way the hardware has evolved into mass-market appliances that activity has also evolved into different methods and directions. Just because it's done with a pencil and keyboard instead of a soldering iron doesn't mean it doesn't have the same essential quality. But even on the hardware side there's a lot going on; folks are adding LCD displays & controllers and building MP3 players for their car, controlling their telescopes with computer-driven steppers etc. etc.; all sorts of robotics and other computer-related custom hardware that wasn't even possible back then And how about the people on this list and numerous other lists like it where people, many of whom weren't born when these things were new, are building things like custom disk interfaces, memory expanders, etc. etc. for C64s (not to mention the single-chip C64 itself), PETs, Apples, Tandys and all the other old computers, writing emulators, etc. etc.? Don't we/they count? You won't convince me that there isn't far more activity in this area today than there was then, in part just because it's so much more affordable and mainstream world-wide; how many people in Russia, China or India were playing with computers in the 70s? Even if only .00001% ever take the cover off their computer, that's still a lot of additional tinkerers. As for the dearth of technical magazines like the old Byte, Kilobaud etc., the same kind of ideas, projects and articles are still out there, only now they're to be found on the internet for free and in a much more convenient form. 'nuff said, mike

17 years, 2 months

Tandy Logix-Kosmos (was: Re: Ferranti Logical Computor (1951) )

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

On 10/22/07, Mark Tapley <mtapley at swri.edu> wrote: > At 15:42 -0500 10/16/07, Brent wrote: > >Also reminds me of the Kosmos (from Germany) "computer"/(switching)-logic > >trainer from the late-60s/early-70s I received as a kid. I think Radio Shack > >marketed it over here for a while, later in the 70s. Yes. I had the Radio-Shack-badged one. > ...and you have just reminded me of the name (see subject). I > had one too. <google> ... ah. > http://oldcomputermuseum.com/logix_kosmos.html That was the first one I had - the overlays inside were, IIRC, printed tissue paper. > Power supply, 10 bulbs across the top, 10 slides, each slide > opened or closed 5 sets of contacts (functioning as a 5PDT switch), > and a pushbutton. Each contact had 3 holes, as did the power supply > and the lights. By placing jumper wires, you enabled "gates" to > create the logic. You'd slide the slides to generate the input, then > press the pushbutton to provide current. The lights would illuminate > to generate the output. There were paper fold-ups to place inside the > light housing so that the output could be pictographic, and to slide > into a holder to label the slides. Yep. And the whole thing arrived as bagged fiddly-bits - I remember taking more than an hour to assemble. > Mine died of corrosion on the contacts, and was (regrettably) > trashed, I'm pretty sure. I remember the contacts weren't great on the best of days. I think my step-mother threw mine out when she decided my room was too messy. :-( My step-brother had the later Radio-Shack model - the lights were down inside the body of the unit, with flat, plastic printed overlay strips that mounted flush to the face of the unit, and rather than small holes with brass contacts inside the switches, it had external springs like the 150-in-one project kits of the day. It was also sold pre-assembled, IIRC. I did most of the projects in mine, but the one I remember best was the goat/cabbage/fox puzzle. There were graphics on the 3 left-most and 3 right-most bulb spots for the puzzle elements, and a light to signify that you had an error condition (i.e. - the fox ate the goat or the goat ate the cabbage). You flipped the switches to migrate the elements back and forth across the "water", and you might have pressed the button to see what "got et" on that pass, if anything. My only real complaint with it as a teaching tool was that even though I did all the projects, there was no abstraction of the underlying concepts presented. I knew what logic gates were, but at that age, wasn't able to extrapolate on my own how multi-pole switches related to logic gates. I don't recall there being any schematics printed for the projects, either; something that might have helped illustrate what was going on under the hood. It was fun to play with, but I don't think I learned that much from it, unfortunately. I think the N-in-one electronic kits were better as teaching toys. -ethan

17 years, 2 months

TU81+ & KLESI-UA

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

So I have a TU81+ and a KLESI-UA that I'd like to hook up to my 11/44. My first stop was bitsavers and google, to see if there was any specific docs on these. I found docs on the TU81+, but the only thing I found on the M8739 is the printset. 1) Can't find anything detailed about all the dip switch and jumper settings on the KLESI 2) The printset seems to be for a slightly different board than mine (mine has J1 vertical, printset shows it horizontal) >From what I read in the TU81+ docs, it seems that it should pass built-in diags without the need for a host connection. Upon powerup, after a moment I get Ebb in the display. Can't seem to find what that refers to. Reset button does clear it though. Running diag 01 consistently fails after about 4 minutes with "E06". I cleaned the heads, tape cleaner, rollers, and am using a brand new tape. Same results. Test 60, 58, and 59 all end with "00" in the display, but the fault light comes on. 00 supposedly indicates a passed result, but the writeup on the test doesn't mention if the fault light is indicative of a specific result. Apparently my RT-11 docs are old... what is the device driver code for TU81+? Any pointers or advice is most appreciated! Jay West

17 years, 2 months

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test-drb October 2007