January 2007 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by brad＠heeltoe.com

I have about 10 pounds (weight) of random cables which I believe where used to connect two vax 4000 boxes. One end looks like scsi-2 but the other is something similar but not (I think these connected the two qbuses) Also there is a round cable with 2x3 .1" blocks (no idea, but related?) a cable which looks like it goes from a 50 pin .1" scsi header to a centronics scsi (hint: there is sharpie saying "8mm") two cables which looks like giant multirow; I think these connected an outboard RX50 box to something else. I was going to chuck these or put them on ebay. If anyone wants to pay postage (10-12 pounds, from zip 02476 in the USA), let me know. ps: I also have a vax 4000 box I no longer need with some disks and a cpu if anyone *local* wants to come by and pick it up; it ran vms once. send email off line if interested -brad

19 years, 3 months

2
1
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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> > I'm glad your not working on projects for me then. Having > potentially > > damaging voltage on a connector that is not needed doesn't > sound like > > good practices to me. > > I don't see it like that at all... > > I think Tandy were wiring the harness so any normal 8" drive sould be > used. Some drives needed the 12V, some produced it internally > from the > 24V line, so Tandy provided it on the cable for those drives > that need it. > > It's like PC floppy drives. Every PC I've ever worked on has > 4 pin floppy > drive power connecotrs : +_5V, +12V, and a couple of grounds. Most > modern-ish 3.5" drives use 5V only. Are you saying that PC > power supplies > shouldn't connect up the 12V pin I agree that your point is valid, but that's not the way I'd do it. If I were king it wouldn't be so, but I'm not. > > > > > I have the service manual here for this drive. No where does it say > > that pin 4 is not connected to anything. Nor do the > > schematics I have show that this drive's 7812 (which is how it > > is referenced in the print) > > is optional. The only source for +12 on this schematic is the 7812, > > derrived from the +24v line on Pin 1. > > Sure. That drive produces its 12V rail internally. > > Since you have the schematics, can you tell me what pin 4 > _is_ shown as being connected to, please. Now you've got me. I didn't look at it from this point of view. There is no trace for it. Period, doesn't exist at all. Of course we all know that published schematics are all 100% correct (this is a dig at schematics in general, not you Tony). There isn't even a land for it on the circuit board on the drive I'm looking at. Physically, there are 5 black wires coming from the AMP plug to the circuit board. Pin 4 isn't poulated and there's no open land on the board. > > > > > Tandy also uses the same connector on the same power supply wiring > > harness, but with a completely different pinout (and using the same > > color scheme in some instances) to provide power to the > > card cage riser > > IN THE SAME MACHINE. If you use this connector on the drive > > instead of > > the riser, bad things happen. If you use the drive power > connector on > > the riser, bad things happen. The only way to tell them > apart reliably > > is that the drive power cable has two connectors (to power > 2 drives) and > > the riser power connector has only one AMP connector. > > I rememebr one of the old Sun machines (Sun 2?) that used an Archive > Sidewinder QIC drive. It has a 4 pin power connector, jsut > like the one > on a 5.25" drive. There's only one problem. The Sidewinder > uses +5V and > +24V. And IIRC the only differnce in the tape drive pwoer > connector was > the colour of thew wire to one pin. > Yuck. Then you know the pain. Kelly

19 years, 3 months

2
1
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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by kelly＠catcorner.org

>> The wiring harness is made by Tandy, in the Tandy 6000. That this >> harness has power going to a drive power plug that isn't used it typical >> of Tandy's shortcuts. They banked on the fact that Tandon would NEVER >> put another pin in that socket. > > I think that's a rather strange conclusion to some to. > > I'd think of it more like this ; > > Some 8" drives need the +12V supply, and when it's needed it's on pin 4 > of the connecotr. So Tandy wired the harness to allow for such drives. > > This particular Tandon drive doesn't need 12V, so pin 4 is missing (or a > no-connect). > > How can _adding_ a wire to a harness be a shortcut? > > -tony I'm glad your not working on projects for me then. Having potentially damaging voltage on a connector that is not needed doesn't sound like good practices to me. I have the service manual here for this drive. No where does it say that pin 4 is not connected to anything. Nor do the schematics I have show that this drive's 7812 (which is how it is referenced in the print) is optional. The only source for +12 on this schematic is the 7812, derrived from the +24v line on Pin 1. Tandy also uses the same connector on the same power supply wiring harness, but with a completely different pinout (and using the same color scheme in some instances) to provide power to the card cage riser IN THE SAME MACHINE. If you use this connector on the drive instead of the riser, bad things happen. If you use the drive power connector on the riser, bad things happen. The only way to tell them apart reliably is that the drive power cable has two connectors (to power 2 drives) and the riser power connector has only one AMP connector. By the way, if anyone needs these connectors, they are stocked by Mouser and are about $3.50 each. Search for AMP 1-480270-0. I'm reworking a (different) power supply so I can put several TM848-2e drives in an enclosure for imaging disks from a PC. I also found 18ga hookup wire in 100' spools for less than $10 per spool at Jameco. It may save some wiring, but I still think it is a poor practice.

19 years, 3 months

3
3
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Component level repair

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

William Donzelli wrote: Keep in mind that there are costs beyond that dollar. Yes, the costs of the parts is obvious, and the techs time is also pretty obvious, but there is more. WAY more. Doing more component level repair means more techs on staff. More salaries. With more salaries comes more health care costs, more little benefits, more equipment, more floorspace, which mean a bigger building - and then there are the extra personnel people needed to handle the techs - and their salaries, health care costs, little benefits, equipment, floorspace - which means you need an even bigger building, with more maintenance staff, and their salaries, health care costs, little benefits, equipment, floorspace - which now with a bigger building comes more property taxes, maintenance costs, material handling equipment and the servicing they always need, and then the new shelves to put the part, and the costs to erect them, which may mean some temps or even more maintenance personnel... OK, I could go on ALL NIGHT. Yes, the costs incurred for repairing that little dollar part may have only tiny fractional effects on all of the above mentioned stuff, but as things start to multiply, you find that there is a lot of money being dumped into a department that does not actually make any money. -- Will ------------------------------------ Finally, a little reality comes into this discussion. Everything William describes is normal for this industry. You will find it labeled different ways, but it is real actual costs to support a maintenance organization. (The last management textbook I saw called it MLB - materials, labour, burden.) In Silicon Valley, MLB runs from 100% to 250% of the technician's salary. In Asia, we can usually get it down to 80%, and the salary is lower. I think everyone who looks at this issue forgets that technicians are human. They have needs. They like to be paid; they need tools and space; they only work so long. To date, nobody has found a way to automate their skills. So this overhead is a real cost to an organization. And to William's final and most critical point - repair sections are not a profit and loss center. They represent only loss - they do not generate income. So if you set up a business making widgets and they can break and need repair, you have to make a choice. Do you just replace them or do you fix them? A repair department is a constant drain of money and resources. Replacement-only can take advantage of the volume/cost curve. It is the cheapest alternative. It may look like you are wasting money, spending hundreds to replace 1-2 dollar components. But looking at the overall costs to a business, it is extremely unlikely to economically viable to repair parts. You have to look at the real cost to your business, and not the cost of failing element. And for all of you who think this is a deplorable recent trend, you are wrong. These same factors existed from the very beginning of the computer industry. The cost of the maintenance on the very first systems was already one of the biggest expenses faced by the companies. It was a major factor in the demise of many of the early companies. They found their MLB exceeding their profit; and they couldn't do much to change it, since it doesn't create income. Even our favorite company here, DEC found that the maintenance and support was by far the biggest department in the company. Some third party companies like Bell Atlantic saw it as an opportunity. But in the end, they all faced the same factors - huge MLB, low income. So coming back full circle we have the hobbyists on this list who repair for the love of it. They bitch about the lack of documentation or parts. But they don't accept that the generation of documents, parts, reparability has a very high cost associated with it. And there is no income associated with creating those items. With all our high level skills, none of us got rich. It is not a marketable skill in a world focused on profit. Billy

19 years, 3 months

2
1
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My 386 laptop HD is dead. The solution: an IDE to CF adapter

by vax9000＠gmail.com

The laptop served me as a terminal, after the flyback transformer of my VT320 died. (Side info: there are new VT320 flyback transformers on ebay for $4 each. But the news is too late for me.) I was facing the question as what to do. Buy a real terminal? Buy another 8086-386 laptop? Buy a mac SE? Buy a small used IDE HD? Buy serial cable for the HP 100LX I have? Replace the unreliable floppy drive? After one hour of surfing the internet, I finally bought 4 IDE-CF adapters (laptop and desktop versions, $2 each). One for the laptop, one for the pentium PC linux router, one for the 386 desktop. Just want to share the experience with you so you do not need to waste the 1 hour as I did. vax, 9000

19 years, 3 months

4
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42 (was: Component level repair

by RodSmallwood＠mail.ediconsulting.co.uk

Regretably it never successfully made the transition from radio to TV or film. Its not unique, many other radio shows had the same problem. R -----Original Message----- From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Fred Cisin Sent: 26 January 2007 02:51 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: 42 (was: Component level repair On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Billy Pettit wrote: > I stand corrected. All we saw here was the BBC television series If you have a copy with six half-hour episodes, it is near the end of the last episode. > and rather > abominable big screen movie a few years ago. I didn't like that either. But, I have my own ideas about how it should be cast: Ed O'Neil as Arthur Dent Howard Stern as Zaphod Roseanne as the Vogon captain Jaqueline Pearce (Servilan on Blake's 7) as Trillian Christopher Lloyd as Slartibartfast, . . . And I see Marvin as much more like Bender than like the Disney cute one.

19 years, 3 months

1
0
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RX01/02 compatibility, OS/8 conversion

by rick＠rickmurphy.net

I happened to luck into someone this week on eBay who recently put up my OS/8 Adventure sources for sale.. he's offered to put the source onto floppies from his system. However, all he has is a RX01 drive. I've got some floppies around, but they may have been "formatted" by a RX02. I don't remember if they're still compatible with the '01. Is there any hope there, or anyone with a few (3) RX01 disks? More importantly, is there anyone on the list that can dump a set of files from an RX01 in OS/8 format so I can recover them? It'd be very cool to have the RALF source back. -Rick

19 years, 3 months

2
1
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42 (was: Component level repair

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

* Fred Cisin explained: > WhatdoYOUgetwhenyoumultiplysixbynine? On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Billy Pettit wrote: > Philistines. Are there no Douglas Adams fans here? Life, The Universe and > Everything? In the BBC screen play (written BEFORE the book, the letters from the Scrabble bag spelled out: WHATDOYOUGETWHENYOUMULTIPLYSIXBYNINE ----------------- I stand corrected. All we saw here was the BBC television series and rather abominable big screen movie a few years ago. And of course we claim Douglas Adams as one of our own left coast celebrities, since he settled in Santa Barbara when he made the big time. California, heaven to those with the big bucks. Something else to those of us who work here and have to drive to work everyday. Billy

19 years, 3 months

5
4
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Programming the PDP-11/10 Videos on YouTube

by dzubint＠vcn.bc.ca

I don't know why, but instead of typing in "Paris Hilton" into the YouTube search engine, I typed "PDP-11" and found a set of four videos called "Programming the PDP11" from Douglas Harms at DePauw University in Indiana, USA made in 2001 and portrayed as a Star-Trek-holodeck simulation back to the 1970s They are really funny and quite entertaining to watch. Quotes like Q: "What's 'paper tape'?" A: "It's very similar to the punch cards which I'm sure you've used" You can watch them on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV-7J5y1TQc is part 1 of 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zaaD_xP6nU is part 2 of 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiE2QldpQRQ is part 3 of 4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUSn59iY8U8 is part 4 of 4 Or you can get them (Apple Quicktime .MOV format) at the http://fs6.depauw.edu/~dharms/pdp11/ web page. see also: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2000-March/142575.html Nice to see video of the old fanfold paper tape reader in action. (part3) Thomas Dzubin, PDP-11 & VAX fan Vancouver, Calgary, or Saskatoon CANADA

19 years, 3 months

5
5
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IBM 6580 Displaywriter

by cclist＠sydex.com

The recent talk about two old Displaywriters being up for grabs got me to thinking about something that I've left hanging out in my "things to do" list. Does anyone know the internals of the Displaywriter file format? The disks themselves are SSSD with the first track being 26x128 byte sectors and the remainder 15x256. The encoding is EBCDIC for the text, obviously, but the structure has eluded me (or I've been just too lazy to figure it out). My notes from years ago say that it appears to be a two-level sort of affair, with the top level referring to documents and the second referring to pages within the documents--and then I became distracted and that's where my notes leave off. Does anyone know anything more about these things? I'd like to close this item out in my "things to do list'. Cheers, Chuck

19 years, 3 months

1
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OT: faking a VGA display

by julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk

Some of you here might know this :) I've got a system here where I need to make it think that there's a monitor plugged into its VGA port even when there isn't (long story). Plugging a real CRT into the port even when that CRT is switched off and unplugged from the AC supply works, so there's obviously some way of doing it. Measuring the CRT above (switched off, unplugged from AC, and unplugged from the device) with respect to the VGA connector's shield gives me the following readings: pin sig value 1 R 76ohm 2 G 76ohm 3 B 76ohm 4 NC GND 5 GND GND 6 GND GND 7 GND GND 8 GND GND 9 NC infinite resistance 10 GND GND 11 NC GND 12 DDC DAT 8.1Kohm (initially 7.6Kohm, rose at first then steadied) 13 HSYNC 4.6Kohm 14 VSYNC 4.7Kohm 15 DDC CLK 8.1Kohm (initially 7.6Kohm, rose at first then steadied) Any suggestions? Do I just need 76ohm resistors to ground on the RGB lines (and possibly 4.7Kohm resistors to ground on HSYNC and VSYNC)? Or is there likely something more subtle going on that I need to incorporate into my "fake" connector? (Given that VGA supplies no DC out, it can't be anything too complex!) cheers Jules

19 years, 3 months

5
5
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Does anyone know what this from Coax Bank Server

by techboy＠all2ez.net

http://cgi.ebay.com/Multiprocessor-Motorolla-68000-Coax-Bank-Server-Fa stbus_W0QQitemZ280072362339QQihZ018QQcategoryZ4193QQssPageNameZWDVWQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem All the info is in the listing, what I need to know is what was this before it became a set of boards? Thanx Ryan $4.95/mo. National Dialup, Anti-Spam, Anti-Virus, 5mb personal web space. 5x faster dialup for only $9.95/mo. No contracts, No fees, No Kidding! See http://www.All2Easy.net for more details!

19 years, 3 months

1
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My 386 laptop HD is dead. The solution: an IDE to CF adapter

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Brad Parker wrote: Heh. I remember someone asking me (at work) if a 3.5" ST-506 drive would work in zero G. I ask where it was installed and they said a KC-135 :-) Apparently someone wanted to use one in the "vomit comet"... and apparently it worked (at least they never complained that it didn't) I don't know how high those where pressurized, but I'd guess around 8000ft. No doubt the old drives didn't need as much air density; the flying height was not that low. I have no idea how air pressure affects the boundary layer over the surface - I assume less density translates to less drag and then to a lower flight. -brad ---------------------------------------- Cold is not nice to disk drives. More than flying height, the mechanical parts become stiffer and don't flex correctly. Bearings becomse stiff and generate vibration. Seals shrink. A lot of work is being done on self heating. This will be needed when drives go into cell phones in the near future. The drive uses the electronics to get to a certain temperature before loading the heads off the ramp. Air pressure does affect the boundary layer, especially at high RPM. There comes a point where it goes negative and sucks the heads down. The testing I saw showed this somewhere around 18-20K RPM. For drives on the market today, flying height is controlled and compensates for altitude. As for cell phones and hard drives, yes, I know that Flash is getting cheaper and is in a surplus situation right now. And with 4 level cells coming along, the cost per bit is going down. But hard drives will still be used in cell phones, because those devices have exploding storage requirements, thanks to new features. Look at Apple's iPhone, with all the bells and whistles. And only 8GB of storage. They've sold millions of iPods with 20, 30, 40, and 60GB of storage. Those users will demand more storage as they use the iPhone. Cell phones do now and will in the future use hard drives. Cold is one of the biggest unsolved problems. Shock is looking so-so with free fall sensors. Power cosumption is the biggest detractor. But a hybrid with a big cache could solve that. Billy

19 years, 3 months

1
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My 386 laptop HD is dead. The solution: an IDE to CF adapter

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Jim Leonard wrote: Yep! There are only two drawbacks to microdrives: - Slower than real flash - Can't use 6000+ feet above sea level (lack of air pressure can make the drive go wonky or, rarely, break it) -- Jim Leonard --------------------------- I have to strongly dispute this; The IBM (later Hitachi) MicroDrive was rated at 10K feet. I did competitive testing on it and the Seagate 1" drive and both had no problems at 10K feet. In fact both + the WD 1" drive work fine well past 10K feet. Come to that, Maxtor, Miniscribe, IBM and DEC built drives in Colorado well above 6000 feet. Apple used to have a factory at Fountain (6400 feet). So this simply isn't true. The biggest customer of the MicroDrive - Apple iPods - work great on the ski slopes. They also work great in Reno at 7000+ feet. I can personally vouch for this and I'm certain others on the list can too. They also work fine on airplanes, which are pressurized at 8000 feet. I have never heard of a drive breaking because of altitude. Rarely, you get a head gimbals or suspension problem that doesn't like 9000+ feet. But that is a defective drive, not the rule. All drive vendors and many OEM buyers do extensive testing to ensure this. And all heads are testing for flying height before being installed in a drive. Finally, today's drives utilize Dynamic Flying Height technology which uses a heating element in the head to maintain constant controlled flying height. Altitude is not a problem with any drive on the market today. Billy

19 years, 3 months

1
0
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Wayback machine disappointment

by witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk

Hi folks, Whilst shrinking in embarrassment at my own website efforts going back to the mid 90s I thought I'd look at www.digital.com for a bit of nostalgia, only to be told that the site is blocked and isn't available. Anyone know why? Wayback machine: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php -- Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer collection?

19 years, 3 months

2
2
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Component level repair

by aek＠bitsavers.org

>> Bus transceiver chips for Q-bus and Unibus > The answer is 7406. For a very small value of "Q-bus and Unibus" Read the Unibus Handbook for the reasons why.

19 years, 3 months

2
1
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My 386 laptop HD is dead. The solution: an IDE to CF adapter

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

Rumor has it that 9000 VAX may have mentioned these words: >On 1/18/07, Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote: >> >>9000 VAX wrote: >> > After one hour of surfing the internet, I finally bought 4 IDE-CF >>adapters >> > (laptop and desktop versions, $2 each). One for the laptop, one for the >> > pentium PC linux router, one for the 386 desktop. >> > >> > Just want to share the experience with you so you do not need to waste >> > the 1 >> > hour as I did. >> >>Where did you find the IDE-CF adapters? I'm in need of a few myself. > > > From that biggest on-line bazaar that many list members are bashing now for >its lastest BS. Ah yes... but if anyone actually *wanted* to support a Classic Computer company, you could buy them here: http://www.cloud9tech.com/ Not the cheapest, but hey - they're great guys and can be found over on the maltedmedia.com CoCo list. At the same time, you could pick up an IDE interface for your CoCo that has a built-in CF socket right on it... ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate." SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein zmerch at 30below.com |

19 years, 3 months

11
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MITS (Altair) Computer Notes are online

by swtpc6800＠comcast.net

Most of the issues of MITS Computer Notes are online at STARTUP: Albuquerque and the Personal Computer Revolution. (The Paul Allen funded gallery at the New Mexico Museum of Natural History & Science.) http://www.startupgallery.org/gallery/computernotes.php You can read articles by Ed Roberts, David Bunnell, Paul Allen and Bill Gates. Here is Bill Gates complaining about not being able to make any money on software. http://www.startupgallery.org/gallery/notesViewer.php?ii=76_2&p=3 Here is a bug list for BASIC http://www.startupgallery.org/gallery/notesViewer.php?ii=75_12&p=19 These are high quality scans and a valuable source of computer history. Michael Holley

19 years, 3 months

1
0
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Selling Intel 8096/196 Emulators,

by a_j_giusti＠yahoo.com

I found your post while searching for an ICE-196PC. Have you sold this item yet? If not, can you answer a few questions? Specifically, does the emulator have a flex cable going from the PC board to the processor pod? Is it gold, with silkscreen 456583-001 (or -002) TEK INTEL? If so, I would be interested. Please let me know your asking price. Regards, Andrew. ____________________________________________________________________________________ The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

19 years, 3 months

2
1
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FW: Component level repair

by useddec＠gmail.com

> > > > I have thousands of DEC boards, including DZ11's, here if any one needs > them for replacements or parts. Thanks, Paul Anderson In article <e1d20d630701241825v79ce0844h46abf02c3c40596 at mail.gmail.com>, > "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com> writes: > > > Maintaining old DEC stuff would indeed be a niche, so I can understand > > that. However, someof the things I said still apply. For example, when > > a DZ11 goes bad, do you actually fix the board (I assume, of course, > > that you use DZ11s)?. It does not really make sense to, from a > > business perspective, since good ones are common as dirt and quite > > available. > > Just don't scrap the DZ11s, make them available to people who want to > scrounge bus transceiver chips from them. > > Bus transceiver chips for Q-bus and Unibus are *not* common as dirt > and more than a few of us have scratched our heads on how to create > new compatible circuits. Meanwhile, the scroungers taught me that > it might be easier to scrounge the bus transceiver chips off of dead > or readily available boards. > -- > "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download > <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> > > Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/> > >

19 years, 3 months

1
0
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DEC MMJ, eBay madness

by tothwolf＠concentric.net

I've been active on classiccmp for a good many years now and up until now have rather enjoyed making custom and hard to find cables for others in the classicmp community. Recently, someone on eBay managed to get their hands on a spool of genuine DEC flat cord, bought a knock-off MMJ type tool (I saw him purchase it) and started selling poor quality MMJ cables. I couldn't compete and quit making standard MMJ cables, but this weekend he started making H8571-J work-alike adapters to undercut me there too. I know this person is active on the classiccmp mailing list. He started listing his cables shortly after my post when I asked which length of MMJ cables would be the most useful to the majority of the list members. His eBay id is currently "cheshire-cat-computers" but he had been going by "ggggmmmm" up until Jan 5th. I've been going in the hole now for 2-3 months with the listings for cables and I think after today I won't be listing any more. I've now run out of 6-conductor flat cable and I'm down to less than 2 dozen loose MMJ plugs and I'm thinking that its just not worth the trouble anymore. I still have some adapter kits that I made up a few weeks ago, but I think I'm just going to toss them in the junk box and forget about them. I just have no desire to compete with someone who wants to undercut me the way he has done as it appears my time is worth a lot more to me than his is to him. It was certainly fun while it lasted, and I shipped cables all over the place, from Australia to Germany to the UK, and of course the USA and got to talk to all kinds of people. I even had a few go to a couple of people in the armed forces, so I guess they are still using DEC gear too :) -Toth

19 years, 3 months

11
41
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laptops and 5.25 inch floppy drives?

by Watzman＠neo.rr.com

Re: "would it be possible to get a 5.25 to work in say an older laptop w/an integral 3.5?" Maybe. Quite a few Toshiba laptops have an external floppy drive port. It is a true floppy port, designed to interface to a 34-pin floppy interface. Two different connectors were used, the "standard" Toshiba floppy port connector used in every model computer except the Tecra 8000, and a slightly different connector used in the Tecra 8000 series. These connectors are found in the Satellite 400 series laptops (two distinctly different sets of laptops, the "early" 400 series (400 to 435, Pentium I's) and the "late" 400 series, 440 to 490, Pentium MMX and even a Pentium II). They are also found in the Tecra 8000 (different connector), which used both Pentium II and Pentium III CPU (266MHz to about 500MHz). I think that there are other Toshiba laptops that have a similar connector as well, in the Tecra and Portege line (and also the libretto models). Note, since this port was used for the 3.5" floppy drive, you generally won't be able to have both 3.5" and 5.25" drives installed at the same time (but, on some of these, the very reason for the port was that there was an internal drive bay that could either contain the floppy drive internally, or a CD-ROM drive. Not sure if you could use an internal and an external floppy concurrently in those models). Also, Toshiba assumed that the external drive was 3.5" and there is no provision in the BIOS to configure the bios and software for any other floppy drive format. Finally, the hardware reconfiguration (cable) will be a bitch to figure out, although it is conceptually possible. While the external floppy has the 34-pin electrical interface, mechanically it's not a standard 34-pin IDC connector, it's a flat "flex cable", and reworking the cable to connect to a 34-pin standard interface will take some effort. The good news is that you can buy entire laptops in this series for as little as $15, and you can find the external floppy caddies for $5 (source of the cable and connector that mates with the laptop).

19 years, 3 months

20
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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by dm561＠torfree.net

Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 04:56:58 -0500 From: "Kelly Leavitt" <kelly at catcorner.org> Subject: RE: Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > OK, I'm home looking at the drive. The wiring harness from the power > > supply does connect +5, +12, and +24 to the plug that goes into the > > drive. However the TM848-2 drives have pin 4 vacant on the > connector on > > the drive. That is, there is no pin there. Sounds > dangerous, but that is > > typical of Tandy's shortcuts. > > Tandy and Tandon are not THAT close. > > > The wiring harness is made by Tandy, in the Tandy 6000. That this harness has power going to a drive power plug that isn't used it typical of Tandy's shortcuts. They banked on the fact that Tandon would NEVER put another pin in that socket. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, in all fairness to Tandy... Since the schematic for the TM848 shows what seems to be an option to omit the 12V regulator and supply the 12V through the power plug, perhaps Tandy at one time used (or planned to use) drives requiring 12V and kept the 12V supply on the connector for compatibility. Wouldn't be a problem since that pin is physically missing on "normal" drives. Sorta makes sense; in the S-100 world there generally wasn't a 12V supply and every drive needed its own regulator(s), whereas if a system already had a 12V supply then using the 24V and another regulator on the drive would be redundant and just waste power. And there are certainly numerous custom versions of the TM848 around, so you can't count on any particular drive being plug-compatible anyway. Yes, if you happened to plug a drive with the power off option on pin 4 into your 6000, there probably would be some magic smoke... Things weren't quite as "standard" in those days as they are today, FWTW. m

19 years, 3 months

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"Immortal computing" initiative by Microsoft

by toresbe＠ifi.uio.no

I was lazily browsing the 'web when I came across this one - apparently a project to create a storage medium with extremely long life times. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/300636_msftimmortal22.html -Tore :)

19 years, 3 months

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cctalk Digest, Vol 41, Issue 69

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 18:30 -0600 1/23/07, Richard wrote: >Fine. Its shared by two or more people, but its still an opinion and >not an axiomatically derived fact. What's an "axiom"? -- Mark Tapley, Dwarf Engineer (I haven't cleared my neighborhood) 210-379-4635 Dwarf Phone, 210-522-6025 Office Phone

19 years, 3 months

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Unibus Analyzer now available

by ggs＠shiresoft.com

I *finally* had enough time to write the manual for the UA11 Unibus Analyzer, so it's now available for sale. Go to http://www.shiresoft.com/products & http://www.shiresoft.com/docs for more information. I now use it almost exclusively for debugging problems and getting systems to work. I only pull out the 'scope or LA if the problem isn't observable on the Unibus. (sorry, hopeless plug.) -- TTFN - Guy

19 years, 3 months

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Re-Introducing the First, and Fully Functional, Lisa Emulator

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> In many ways, as I watched Lisa Office System and MacWorks boot up (via > trace logs), I saw many glimpses into the software design ideals and > practices of the early 80's. I've never been an archaeologist, and > don't really know that experience, I can guess at the rush and thrill of > discovery. Seeing the machine code of various Lisa OS's fly by has been > that experience for me. I could almost understand what the coders that > wrote them were thinking, how they designed things, and why. I could > easily tell what code was hand written assembly by an expert, or novice, > what assembly was generated by compilers. PLEASE write document the details while this is all fresh in your mind.

19 years, 3 months

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Component level repair

by marvin＠rain.org

> From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > too keen to process it on their own soil. Sooner or later there will > (thankfully) be pressure on manufacturers to make their products be more > maintainable and last for longer. The way things are going, being able to maintain a buggy whip won't be economically feasible or an asset to any mainstream company. Technology changes, evolves, and rarely results in something being simpler and easier to fix. I do like repairing at the component level, but just don't have time for it right now. But as Tony mentioned, it is a puzzle, and the MINDSET that allows troubleshooting is just not something everyone has. One of my favorite examples was back when I was doing field maintenance, I got a call from a customer who couldn't get their machine to work. So I flew down to take a look, was picked up by the plant manager, and taken to the machine. While he went to get the tech, I looked at it and had it working in a couple of minutes later when they returned. The problem was strictly mechanical (an air cylinder shaft had come unscrewed from the piston), and they had *assumed* it was an electrical problem. And most of us (at least those of us do/did troubleshooting as a job) have had the experience of troubleshooting equipment where the problem turned out to be the switch needed to be turned on, or the unit plugged in. Developing a mental picture (I think in terms of block diagrams) of how something works is crucial to being able to troubleshoot it.

19 years, 3 months

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IBM PS1 available

by SUPRDAVE＠aol.com

Sounds like it's a 2011-C34. First Generation IBM PS/1. Uses matching VGA monitor with CPU power supply inside and DOS in ROM. Kinda cute, and have heard of some individuals still using them because they're pretty simple. I'd take i t, but I already have one including the 2121 386 series. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- In a message dated 1/24/2007 12:18:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, cclist at sydex.com writes: On 23 Jan 2007 at 17:47, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I'm not sure if this interests anyone. It sure doesn't interest me, but > maybe someone is looking for one to complete their collection. Have at > it! What might make this worth someone's collection is, I seem to recall, that it is unusual in that it has PC-DOS in ROM. Cheers, Chuc

19 years, 3 months

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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:22 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power > > > On Tue, 23 Jan 2007, Kelly Leavitt wrote: > > OK, I'm home looking at the drive. The wiring harness from the power > > supply does connect +5, +12, and +24 to the plug that goes into the > > drive. However the TM848-2 drives have pin 4 vacant on the > connector on > > the drive. That is, there is no pin there. Sounds > dangerous, but that is > > typical of Tandy's shortcuts. > > Tandy and Tandon are not THAT close. > > > The wiring harness is made by Tandy, in the Tandy 6000. That this harness has power going to a drive power plug that isn't used it typical of Tandy's shortcuts. They banked on the fact that Tandon would NEVER put another pin in that socket.

19 years, 3 months

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P112 session at VCF

by dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu

I'd like to get a rough idea of how many people would be interested in buying and building a P112 kit at the next west coast VCF. I've been asked to do a breakout session similar to what was done with the ELF2k and Replica I of 2006. -- David Griffith dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

19 years, 3 months

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IBM PS1 available

by sellam＠vintagetech.com

I'm not sure if this interests anyone. It sure doesn't interest me, but maybe someone is looking for one to complete their collection. Have at it! Reply-to: Ian Gribble <gribble at manx.net> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:04:58 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Gribble <gribble at manx.net> Subject: IBM PS1 I have an IBM PS1 (says model 2011 on the back of the case ) 10MHz 286 which I am about to throw out, do you guys want it or is disposal the best thing to do? *** -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

19 years, 3 months

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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of M H Stein > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:52 PM > To: 'cctalk at classiccmp.org' > Subject: Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power > ------------------Original Message: > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:23:32 -0500 > From: "Kelly Leavitt" <kelly at catcorner.org> > Subject: Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <07028839E9A3744F87BEF27FF2CFF8E30B1494 at MEOW.catcorner.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The drive in my Tandy Model 6000 has +5, +12 and +24 > connected to it (pins 5, 4, and 1). The schematic in the > service manual I have shows 4 as NC and a 7812 providing the > 12v from the 24v line. The specs for the drive in the service > manual do not mention +12 on pin 4 at all. The scematic at > bitsavers isn't a lot of help. > > I don't have the drive here in front of me. Does anyone have > one where they can verify the connections from the AMP power > connector to see if pin 4 actually goes anywhere on theirs? > > -----------------Reply: > > The drive in front of me corresponds to the service manual, i.e.: > > AMP PCB P7 > 1 1 - +24V > 2 2 - GND > 3 3 - GND > 6 4 - GND > 5 5 - +5V > 4 NC OK, I'm home looking at the drive. The wiring harness from the power supply does connect +5, +12, and +24 to the plug that goes into the drive. However the TM848-2 drives have pin 4 vacant on the connector on the drive. That is, there is no pin there. Sounds dangerous, but that is typical of Tandy's shortcuts. > Hope that's clearer than mud & helps. > It is, it does. > mike > Thanks, Kelly -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007

19 years, 3 months

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Component level repair

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: OK, let me raise a few points. I think _everyone_ here could do component-level troubleshooting if they wanted to. It's mostly a matter of logical reasoning, and I think everone here can think logically. This last part may explain why I'm so fanatical about it. I find it fun. I like solving puzzles. I like logic puzzles particularly. And that's exactly what rtoubleshooting should be. A puzzle. It's like detective work. You gather the clues, think about them, and find the cluprit. Fortunately for me, the rsults of being wrong are somewhat less serious than sending an innocent man to the gallows ;-) I guess troubelshooting is one reason that I mess around with old hardware. I do enjoy it. -tony ------------------------------------------------- Tony, There are different motivations for different people. I don't share your love of fixing things for the sake of fixing them. After 45 years of repairing electronic problems for a living, I'd like a break. Puzzles are fine for minor recreation, but a full time diet is very boring. Broken malfunctioning computers have gotten old. Time for some fun. I buy new computers so I can USE them. I want to have pwerful tools to create, research, edit, post. I buy new TVs so I DON'T have to fix them. I'd rather watch programs on them. I don't have to prove to myself or anyone else that I can troubleshoot an old circuit. Or a new one for that matter. Same for cars and cameras. My pleasure is in driving someplace I haven't been and experiencing it. Or visiting friends. Staying home and overhauling the engine is not a pleasure. Buying a camera to fix it is not a joyous thing. The creative part is in the picture taking. So I DON'T agree that everyone on the list should be able to troubleshoot. It is a minor facet of the hobby of retrocomputing, not the raison d'etre of the hobby. Billy

19 years, 3 months

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HP 730 in LA

by legalize＠xmission.com

<http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/sys/267318059.html> He also has an unspecified X terminal with it, which is what got my attention... -- "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" -- DirectX 9 draft available for download <http://www.xmission.com/~legalize/book/download/index.html> Legalize Adulthood! <http://blogs.xmission.com/legalize/>

19 years, 3 months

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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by dm561＠torfree.net

------------------Original Message: Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:23:32 -0500 From: "Kelly Leavitt" <kelly at catcorner.org> Subject: Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <07028839E9A3744F87BEF27FF2CFF8E30B1494 at MEOW.catcorner.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The drive in my Tandy Model 6000 has +5, +12 and +24 connected to it (pins 5, 4, and 1). The schematic in the service manual I have shows 4 as NC and a 7812 providing the 12v from the 24v line. The specs for the drive in the service manual do not mention +12 on pin 4 at all. The scematic at bitsavers isn't a lot of help. I don't have the drive here in front of me. Does anyone have one where they can verify the connections from the AMP power connector to see if pin 4 actually goes anywhere on theirs? -----------------Reply: The drive in front of me corresponds to the service manual, i.e.: AMP PCB P7 1 1 - +24V 2 2 - GND 3 3 - GND 6 4 - GND 5 5 - +5V 4 NC However, the schematic & PCB have a jumper position (LV) which bypasses the 12 V regulator, so presumably there was an option to omit the LM340T-12, C6 & R1 and connect +12 directly from pin 4 of the AMP connector to where R1 would be. Looks like there was also an option (on the schematic, not the drive) to use pin 4 (and/or pin 3) of the AMP connector to sense when a disk was inserted and turn power to the drive on/off. BTW, on the drive the fuse F1 is in the main +24V line, whereas the schematic shows it only in the branch going to the 12V regulator. Hope that's clearer than mud & helps. mike

19 years, 3 months

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Tools - security bit set?

by mtapley＠swri.edu

All, a while ago was posted here a recommendation for a set of security bits. I have at least two items that I can't (reversibly) get into without them - one is a power supply unit for a PowerBook 3400, which needs a tamperproof torx (I think). What's an affordable (in the Duell sense) set of tools that anyone can recommend to me? I'm hoping to get tamperproof Torx, triangle-head, etc. in several different sizes, so I can keep the whole set together and just grab it when someone assumes I'm about to kill myself. -- Mark Tapley, Dwarf Engineer (I haven't cleared my neighborhood) 210-379-4635 Dwarf Phone, 210-522-6025 Office Phone

19 years, 3 months

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Tools - security bit set?

by zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com

Rumor has it that William Donzelli may have mentioned these words: >>I probably should add one of my big gripes: Torx-plus (5-lobed star) >>tools. > >While I have seen a lot of security heads in use, I have never seen >anything that actually uses these Torx mutants. The original Leatherman Wave. Despite the fact IMHO it's the best multitool on the planet, it *really sucks* when you can't even tighten the joints yourself!!! Ungh. My Leatherman Wave of 3+ years just went on walkabout (that's how I've lost most of them - someone else wanted it worse than me!!!) so I had to purchase a new one - and now they use "standard" 6-lug Torx security bits. > Have manufacturers >been shying away from them? What uses them? I doubt anything in the computer world uses 'em, and other than my old Wave, I've never seen them used on anything else. The Leatherman Corp. quit using them, so maybe the NDA and associated crap was too tightly controlled? >I would not be suprised if there are already Chinese knockoffs. Back when I was actively looking for them, I couldn't find one. Haven't looked in a couple years, tho. Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch at 30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

19 years, 3 months

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IBM Displaywriter

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I can see why you might need 2. Apparently you like to do everything twice LOL LOL! --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <jthecman at netscape.net> wrote: > Our museum is looking for one or two of these, where are they located? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: overfie at attglobal.net > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > Sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:00 PM > Subject: IBM Displaywriter > > > Arthur Gardner > Gardner Business > I just read your message of July 21 to Jim Kearney looking to purchase an > IBM Displaywriter. > I am the owner of two IBM Displaywriters w/a shared printer and desire to > find a home for them. > Are you still interested or know of anyone who has an interest? > Ralph Overfield > roverfield at pacbell.net > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. ____________________________________________________________________________________ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265

19 years, 3 months

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Archiving workstation hard drives

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Suppose the drives were from the Lilith/Eve workstations. Would the unix trick of using dd still work? -- nope. they had their own custom drive interface. same is true for pretty much every disc before SCSI common command set. while 512 byte block scsi or ide interfaced mass storage devices now seem like the only things that ever existed, before the mid 80's there was no real block-level hard disc standard across manufacturers. the closest would have been hpib, but that was really only used by HP.

19 years, 3 months

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OT Crimp tools & Cutter Re: DEC MMJ

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

C Fernandez wrote: I've been wondering the same thing. My guess is that what I would normally call "wire cutters", just wont work for some of the picky types on the list ..... like Tony and Toth :-) Chad ---------------------------------------------- I have to disagree. There are many instances where you want the component flush. For example, an RF can - don't want the leg to touch. Same for a daughter board. Or a PCB that fits into a tight case. And so on. Flush cutters are an extremely useful tool and you want one that give a clean sharp cut with damaging the surface of the PCB. It's the same principle as using a saw with no tooth offset to trim a dowel pin - cut but don't damage. Billy

19 years, 3 months

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Tandon TM848-2 Floppy drive power

by kelly＠catcorner.org

The drive in my Tandy Model 6000 has +5, +12 and +24 connected to it (pins 5, 4, and 1). The schematic in the service manual I have shows 4 as NC and a 7812 providing the 12v from the 24v line. The specs for the drive in the service manual do not mention +12 on pin 4 at all. The scematic at bitsavers isn't a lot of help. I don't have the drive here in front of me. Does anyone have one where they can verify the connections from the AMP power connector to see if pin 4 actually goes anywhere on theirs?

19 years, 3 months

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IBM Displaywriter

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

interested in 1 as long as theyre not on the west coast. --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <overfie at attglobal.net> wrote: > Arthur Gardner > Gardner Business > I just read your message of July 21 to Jim Kearney looking to purchase an > IBM Displaywriter. > I am the owner of two IBM Displaywriters w/a shared printer and desire to > find a home for them. > Are you still interested or know of anyone who has an interest? > Ralph Overfield > roverfield at pacbell.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

19 years, 3 months

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IBM Displaywriter

by overfie＠attglobal.net

Arthur Gardner Gardner Business I just read your message of July 21 to Jim Kearney looking to purchase an IBM Displaywriter. I am the owner of two IBM Displaywriters w/a shared printer and desire to find a home for them. Are you still interested or know of anyone who has an interest? Ralph Overfield roverfield at pacbell.net

19 years, 3 months

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TI-52 MANUAL

by peakunder＠yahoo.co.uk

Hi, My wife would be eternally grateful if you could email a copy of the above. She loves this calculator, but can't find the manual for it anywhere in the house! Regards, Jeff. --------------------------------- Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail.

19 years, 3 months

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eBay idiocy

by wayne.smith＠charter.net

> Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 13:20:01 -0500 (EST) > From: der Mouse <mouse at Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Subject: Re: eBay idiocy > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: <200701211822.NAA13073 at Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >> Well, as long as we're being petty, I tuned out your > incessant (and > >> often off-topic) jabbering long before I unsubscribed. > > Is this view wildly held? Let's just say that you've mellowed quite a bit since the 90s.

19 years, 3 months

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Sun Graphics Options

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

> Richard said: > The stuff I'm remembering is from the 1990-1995 period, so it would be > "apopros" vis-a-vis the 10 year rule, which isn't a rule, really more > a rule of thumb or a guideline, well not really a guideline, more like > a hint, well not really a hint, but whatever Jay says it is... The "really off-topic" stuff I'm talking about are the current cards- those Suns are outside of my budget. Creator was mid to late '90s and was the first Sun 24-bit midrange option (I don't think there were any 8-bit UPA graphics options). GP2 was, I think (don't have one) a single 9-U VME board that attached to the CG9 via a private bus on the P2 or P3. CG13 looks to be unaccelerated based on anecdotal evidence. Does anyone know if the S24 (SS5 AFX framebuffer) was accelerated? This doesn't cover 3rd party products, either

19 years, 3 months

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MSX TV?

by alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br

Well, since the MSX subject seems to be fine here, anyone up to a brazilian MSX showing using webcast on weekend? Maybe I can organize a "MSX SHOW", showing the brazilian computers and some brazilian hardware. Greetz Alexandre

19 years, 3 months

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MSX TV?

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

sure dude --- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> wrote: > > Well, since the MSX subject seems to be fine here, anyone up to a > brazilian MSX showing using webcast on weekend? Maybe I can organize a "MSX > SHOW", showing the brazilian computers and some brazilian hardware. > > Greetz > Alexandre > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097

19 years, 3 months

1
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Strange things found in a free SPARC 20

by ethan.dicks＠gmail.com

So I get this pair of free SS20s today at the weekly geek lunch at the Chinese restaurant down the street - one nice, clean one, and one that, um... well... was corroded inside due to an unfortunate meeting with a dog, I'm told. I stripped down the soiled unit before I even got home to recover a (clean) 1"-tall Toshiba SCSI CD-ROM, two (clean) SM50 processor modules, and a mixed pile of DIMMs with some corrosion on the fingers. The motherboard was a total loss, as was the chassis. I have washed and brushed the SIMMs, a mix of 8MB and 32MB - not sure about a couple of them, but most seem to be visually intact. I was planning on an alkalai wash before testing them. The other box being clean made it a good candidate to boot up... it had a single SM50 (now two), 48MB of RAM, a TGX framebuffer, and an internal SCSI drive of a type I'd never seen before. I had to google it - an ST5660NC. I was surprised to confirm that even though it was an SCA-connector drive, it was a whopping 545MB, and *narrow* (thus the "NC"). I didn't know anyone made a) SCA drives below 1GB, and b) narrow SCSI SCA drives. I think the drive bracket is probably one of the most expensive things in the box, really. I think there was some recent list traffic about using an SS20 as, essentially, an X terminal with that optional internal frame buffer, but since I don't have one, I'm thinking "headless server". Not as powerful as the cheapest of "haul-it-away" commodity boxes, but substantially more robust. At least I'd expect this box to stay up for 6 months at a time. At least it runs Solaris 9. -ethan

19 years, 3 months

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test-drb January 2007