test-drb May 2006

test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

195 participants
346 discussions

by Billy.Pettit＠wdc.com

Tony Duell wrote: So (to get it on-topic for classiccmp), people with machines that only support IDE drives are going to have problems in the future finding working replacements (I doubt very much if any of us could repair any reasonably-modern IDE drive, alas). I've seen adapters to use IDE drives on SATA hosts, but not the reverse. Oh well... Looks like designing an ST506 (host) to IDE (drive) interface is not going to be a particularly useful thing. Better to work out a way to keep the old ST506s/412s/etc working. -tony ------------------------------------------------------ I'm lost in your logic here. ST506 and 412 have been obsolete for 15 years. They will become harder and harder to find and keep working. If you are trying to keep the old systems running, you will eventually have to do a dongle of some sort with newer drives. Why not now? Keeping the old drives working is going to require parts and technology that don't exist commercially any more. You can still find the high volume circuitry in the surplus stores. But it's the heads and platters that wear out and ferrite heads and oxide media are gone. Occasional bits and pieces show up less and less often. Why not put the energy into adapting the latest drive technology? That buys you an extra decade or so. IDE drives are going to be around in far greater volumes long after the last ST506 is still working. I just had a report that last year was the biggest year ever for hard drives: 376 million units, the huge majority IDE. That gives a pool of drives to use that will outlast most of us on this list. And there are already IDE to SATA dongles to stretch out another generation. And there are the side issues to keeping the old systems going. How long will we be able to find 8" and 5.25" media? Printer ribbons? Rubber parts for teletypes and typewriters? When do you toss in the towel on trying to keep the old systems going? One of my other hobbies is amateur publishing. We used Gestener mimeograph machines. The machines are easy to keep running. But I haven't been able to buy any stencils in the last 5 years. A place in India made them until around 2000. Now it's just the odd cache that shows up on eBay every 4-6 months. The ink we've tried to make ourselves with a little success. And of course, the twiltone paper is long gone. Modern paper is too slick and non-absorbent. When we get a mimeo going, it still looks like crap because of the poor ink and paper. So I wonder again, when do we give up on keeping the old machines running? If my CDC 160-A memory goes, there's no more core memories. My Jetex engines don't have fuel any more. My old typewriters have platens that turn to powder if I try to type. Some time, we have to let go and upgrade as much as it is unaesthetic or displeasing. When? Billy

17 years, 10 months

Semi-OT: IDE & SATA to USB dongles

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

what about compact flash drives, which are IDEish in nature. Im all for authenticity, but if a solution presents itself, and Ill add one that may not be as volatile as magnetic media, Im equally gung-ho. Hey lookit, I just became a ho LOL LOL. Albeit cflash cards are themselves being phasored out (in favor of the smaller sd and xd nuisances). But theyre very cheap too...128megs ~ $10. Or 1gig for 25 after a rebate. --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > > So (to get it on-topic for classiccmp), people with machines that > > > only support IDE drives are going to have problems in the future > > > finding working replacements (I doubt very much if any of us could > > > repair any reasonably-modern IDE drive, alas). I've seen adapters to > > > use IDE drives on SATA hosts, but not the reverse. > > > > FWIW, all of the failures I've seen in an IDE drive were failures in the > > HDA, not in the electronics. "Boardswapping" a new board onto most IDE > > Sure, but the HDAs are not exactly home-repairable either. > > > drives is trivial if you have a couple spares of the same drive, if > > there's really a problem with the electronics. I know that may not > > But as you said, the electroncis is rarely the problem. > > One caveat in doing this is that I beleive some drives stored HDA > parameters (bad block lists, etc) in non-volatile memory on the logic > board. Swapping boards between seemingly identical drives won't always work. > > > appeal to you, Tony, but most of us don't have the ability or spare > > time to repair surface mount electronics... :) > > Having looked at some IDE drives I am not sure I do either. Very fine > pitch connections (tht I probably could solder if I had to) and nasty > ASICs that I can't get and don't understand. I would attempt to replace > standard components if I could prove that was the problem. > > > > > Anyhow, there's enough new products being designed with IDE hard drives > > in them, that IDE will still be around for at least 5 years if not > > much, much more... > > 5 years is not that long. > > -tony > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

17 years, 10 months

atari printers

by dm561＠torfree.net

----------------Original Message: Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 00:28:55 +0200 From: "arne graff" <dsl289031 at vip.cybercity.dk> Subject: atari printers Looking for a small plotter I was directed to one of your sites. Do you know anywhere I could get hold of a Tandy CGP-115 new or used? Regards Arne Graff ------------------Reply: I've got one: very slightly used, boxed with PS, manual & dust cover. Also extra rolls of paper and 3 or 4 sets of pens, although, except for 2 black ones, they're dried out by now. Contact off-list if interested. BTW: Anybody have any experience reviving/replacing this type of pen? (Just stubby little ball-points, also used in several other plotters of the day). mike

17 years, 10 months

New Exidy Sorcerer stuff

by nospam212-cctalk＠yahoo.com

Sweet! Got back into town to discover an Exidy Sorcerer waiting for me. System, S-100 expansion, dual 8" floppy drives, monitor and software and docs. I love the Sorcerer! :) List of stuff so far can be found at: http://www.trailingedge.com/exidy/ExidyList.txt ----- David http://www.trailingedge.com

17 years, 10 months

about olivetti's m290

by d.angst＠s-tec.ch

Daniel Angst EDV Support S-TEC electronics AG Industriestrasse 49 6300 Zug Tel: +41 41 760 30 88 Fax:+41 41 760 29 59 d.angst at s-tec.ch

17 years, 10 months

MS-DOS 1.0/1.1

by marvin＠rain.org

I was just reading through the MSJ (May 1987) and it has an interesting article called "Evolution and History of MS-DOS" and some of it is quoted below. Does anyone know whatever happened to Tim Patterson? I never hear his name mentioned, and am just curious. >From that article: ********* January 1975: MITS introduces the $400 Altair computer; it has no keyboard, no monitor, no disk, and no operating system. February 1975: Paul Allen and Bill Gates develop and sell their own verion of BASIC to MITS for the Altair: February 1976: Paul Allen, now working for MITS, asks Bill Gates to write a disk-based version of BASIC for the Altair. Bill Gates creates a working model of his disk BASIC in 10 days. He designs a disk layout and file structure based on a centralized File Directory and File Allocation Table (FAT). He also includes a rudimentary set of file services in the disk BASIC he is developing. 1976-1978: Microsoft Disk BASIC is ported to all jmajor 8 bit personal computers. An assembler and linker are developed for 8080 and Z80 based systems. April 1978: Intel announces the 8086, a 16 bit processor. January 1979: Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer Products begins work on a plug-in 8086 processor card to bring the power of the 8086 to the S-100 bus. June 1979: Microsoft and Tim Patterson show Microsoft's BASIC running on Paterson's 8086 card at the National Computer Conference in New York. April 1980: Delays hold up the delivery of CP/M 86. Tim Paterson decides to write his own "Quick and Dirty" OS, which becomes known as 86-DOS. He incorporates the FAT structure first designed byt Bill Gates for Disk-BASIC, and some features and techniques underlying MS-DOS. August 1980: IBM takes its first stept owards producing the IBM PC, planning to use readily availble, off-the-shelf 8 bit hardware. IBM visits Microsoft, asking if Microsoft can write a ROM-based BASIC for the computer IBM is develop9ing. Microsoft suggests that IBM consider the 16 bit architecture. IBM's "Project Chess" goes on to become the 8088 (8086 based) IBM PC. The first working version of 86-DOS runs on Tim Paterson's 8086 card. This is essentially the birth of what will become known as MS-DOS. September 1980: IBM asks Microsoft to provide COBOL, FORTRAN and PAscal for their personal computer. Microsoft suggests to IBM that an operating system would be necessary to develop the additional lnaguages. October 1980: Microsoft submits a proposal to IBM that includes MS-DOS. November 1980: The proposal is accepted by IBM. A prototype machine arrives at Microsoft and a small DOS team begins a concentrated period of work. February 1981: 86-DOS runs on the prototype for the first time. Over the next half year the OS is refined and becomes MS-DOS 1.0. August 1981:IBM introduces the IBM PC, and annoucnes three operating systems: MS-DOS, CP/M 86, and the P System. For several months, MS-DOS is the only OS available. It is also priced substantially lower than CP/M. ... ... June 1982: MS-DOS, Version 1.1 is announced, providing support for double-sided, eight sector diskettes on the IBM PC.

17 years, 10 months

6-32 3/16" phillips pancake head screws?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

Does anyone know of a supplier of 6-32 pancake head machine screws? I didn't even know this head style existed until someone told be about it this morning. It is the flattest style of pan head type screws. Google turns up nothing.

17 years, 10 months

6-32 3/16" phillips pancake head screws?

by aek＠bitsavers.org

> As I said... imagine a *nail* with a slot cut in it... exactly.. > Maybe if you let us know what you need to use them with They are the drive mounting screws used to attach drives to Xserve drive modules (sometimes called Apple ADMs) http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4969/pic88q4in.jpg This is a really brain-dead design. The dimples require the use of pancake head screws. Actually.. it turned out I found some flat heads this afternoon at Halted that work, and don't extend much beyond the dimple that I've pushed into service. This is all for a dual 1.6TB array that I'm putting together for CHM as the bits repository. (to stay somewhat on topic, though I thought this was weird enough that it was appropriate for classiccmp)

17 years, 10 months

IBM Professional Graphics Adapter

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

I just received the first part of a shipment which includes an IBM 5175 monitor. The PGA card and possibly the AT box it resides in is on it's way. I plugged the monitor into my Vermont Microsystems card (essentially a PGA clone), and it worked like a charm. Have yet to plug the monitor into a VGA card and investigate that noise (the PGA card possibly has some funky syncing scheme, like combined sync or sync-on-green). But regardless, I'm desirous of docs for these babies, technical or otherwise. Programming infor-mation is of the utmost importance. Can anyone help? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

17 years, 10 months

Repair methods (was Cromemco 3101/Beehive B150 score)

by roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk

> That raises an interesting point, actually. If the normal repair > method > when the machine was in active use was to replace a module (e.g. > board-swap), is it better (historically) to keep the machine as > original > as possible (by replacing just one component on the board), or to keep > the original repair methods? I know what I'm going to do, though. An interesting question. If you have a module of the same age, I don't see any problem with a module swap. That's what I do, but my modules are probably logically rather smaller. One printed circuit board holds one 3 input not-J not-K flip-flop. Another type has four And gates. When I eventually run low on spare modules I will have to start component level repair, hopefully being able to make 3 good modules out of 4 bad ones. You are probably wondering what computer I have, it is made of discrete Germanium transistors and diodes, has 2000 words of 48 bit core store, drums of 12000 words, half inch ten track magnetic tape at 300 bit per inch, card reader, card punch, line printer, paper tape reader, and a slow, more modern (BRPE) paper tape punch. It is an I.C.T. 1301 mainframe, first installed at the University of London in 1962 to handle administration, undergraduate matriculation and statistical analysis of exam results and allocating candidates their grades and printing pass slips. It weighs many tons and consumes 13kVA of three phase electricity when everything is running at the same time. In service it was normal to swap a complete PCB and send it back to base for repair. These would be repaired to original specification, going as far as going though quality assurance where they would test each soldered joint and apply a dob of red lacquer to each joint to show it had passed inspection.

17 years, 10 months

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test-drb May 2006