Anyone have an urgent need for 300' of thicknet? Never been used, approx
117m (according to the writing on the spool) with one cut end and one
N-connector on the other end.
It's 50ohm cable right? Maybe I can use it for amateur radio, if I keep it
indoors away from the UV.
[Oops] It's a question of whether we're going to go forward into the
future, or past into the back. --Dan Quayle
--... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -...
tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio)
"HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters
43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc
WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531
Brent Hilpert wrote: I always
kind of liked the idea of making an entire processor out of just one basic
Didn't Seymour Cray do this on one of his later machines? The Cray 2?
Seems like it was a 5 input And gate.
But then he always did like to minimalize. The 6600, his first big iron,
used one transistor type tied together in different ways to make gates, flip
flops and timing circuits. He used circles and squares to denote gates -
but whther they were And or Ors depended on what fed them. Ah, twas fun to
work with. And I loved the esthetics of the logic diagrams. All those
little squares and circles had a kind of magic to them.
>Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:30:36 -0700
>From: Richard <legalize at xmission.com>
>In article <458726D7.17136.1434D6AA at cclist.sydex.com>,
> "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> writes:
>> But, given that the original uses RTL and core, what's the point of
>> building one in LSTTL?
>Is it even possible to build with RTL parts anymore?
>I guess you'd have to do it PDP-8 style with discrete transistors?
Is there a guide somewhere to the different families of logic, such
as RTL, TTL, LSTTL (never heard of that one) and CMOS? I was
choosing some simple logic components for my IIfx SIMM project the
other day and was somewhat bewildered by the choice of input/output
levels. Also, some are Schmidt Triggered?
My understanding extends to the idea that there are differences in
how they (at what voltage) interpret the low and high states but
beyond that, I'm ignorant.
Anyway, before I go on a Google hunt (which will probably turn up all
the surplus electronics suppliers and pricegrabber links first) does
anyone already know of a nice educational source on the topic?
> > Sometimes Goodwill has interesting stuff. Here's one you don't see
> > every day:
> > http://shopgoodwill.com/viewItem.asp?ItemID=2423761
> > Cheers,
> > Chuck
> Thanks for the heads up and I bided on the item for the museum and it's at
> $21 right now.
These are sold by the National Atomic Museum on Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, NM:
I bought mine (016 of 340) about eight years ago for $50 when I visited the museum. I'm amazed
they haven't sold all 340 by now. They now sell for $58 new to give you an idea of what your
maximum bid should be if you don't just buy a new one from the museum. The one in the auction has
been re-framed. I re-framed and re-matted mine but in a much nicer black frame than the one in
the auction (frame only cost me $5 on sale at Target due to superficial damage on its BACK side).
I, also, made some new labels with far more info about the machine and specific board.
ASCI Red, the first tera-ops supercomputer was recently decommissioned at Sandia (on Kirtland):
I emailed the National Atomic Museum to suggest that they get some boards and frame them because
of the significance of the tera-ops barrier. I received no response.
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Almost all new equipment has to comply with "RoHS" (Reduction of Hazardous
Substances) requirements, which among other things means it's made with
lead-free solder. Enforcement is stronger in Europe than in the US, but in
any case industry is cleary moving in that direction even when and where not
absolutely required by law.
Question: If one is repairing RoHS compliant equipment, with respect to
functionality only is there a problem with using conventional tin/lead
solder? I'm not asking if it's legal or "environmentally friendly", I'm
asking if mixing the lead free solder and conventional tin/lead solder will
cause functional problems (for example, any kind of problems similar to
those which we used to see when someone repaired electronic equipment using
plumbing acid flux solder).
Also, if one wants to acquire and use RoHS compliant solder, are there any
changes that someone accustomed to conventional tin/lead solder needs to
make to their soldering technique? And I guess I should also ask the
reverse question from the paragraph above: Are there any issues in using
lead-free RoHS compliant solders on equipment originally built from tin/lead
Are there any other implications of RoHS that a casual classic computer and
electronics enthusiast should know about, in either direction?
I've been having an esclating correspondance with a chap named
"Murray Balascak" (anyone know him?) - who contacted me regarding
his displeasure with my mention of the Apple-1 on the Apple-II page of
my site - here is what I have posted as part of my introdiuction to the
In 1976, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs formed the Apple Computer Company,
and built a home computer they called the "Apple 1" in their garage. Although it
required the users to provide their own cabinet, power supply, keyboard and
video monitor, it didn't require a separate terminal, and a simple BASIC interpreter
could be loaded with an optional cassette interface. Although it required a fairly
technical user to complete the system and make it usable, about 200 Apple 1s
were sold in the first year.
The following year (1977), Apple refined the design, providing a keyboard and
power supply and packaging the machine in a attractive low-profile plastic cabinet
with simple connections for the video monitor and tape storage. Now - anyone
who could plug two connectors together could use this computer. The result, called
"Apple 2" was one of the most successful early personal computers, and sold
many thousands of units.
In Mr. Balascaks first correspondance, he stated that the KIM-1 was a far
better machine than the Apple-1, asked if I had succumbed to "the relentless
revisionism of the brand zealots?", and demanded that I "correct the above
reference to show the machine's irrelevance".
In his second correspondance, he stated that I am spreading "Apple
propaganda", again stated that the KIM-1 was better, sold in higher
quantities and cheaper (I still do not know what the KIM-1 has to do
with an Apple-II page).
In his third correspondance he acqused me of "posting lies and being
worse than useless by corrupting history into fiction". Again, he stated
that the KIM-1 was a far better machine and much cheaper.
In his last email, he indicated that he believes I am responsable for the
degradation of the internet and the reason that it cannot be trusted as
a source of information.
I don't know where this is coming from - I believe my reference to the
Apple-1 is accurate considering it's brevity - Apple was formed in 1976
and operated out of Jobs basement. The Apple-1 was sold through the
homebrew computer club as well as a few of stores, and although I do
not have confirmed numbers of sales, I believe it was around 200
It was never my intention to make a page about the Apple-1 (I don't have
one, and I only feature systems on my site which are in my collection)...
I believe at some point someone asked why I didn't mention the Apple-1
so I added this one paragraph as part of the Apple-II history. I have no
other references to the Apple-1 (at least that I can recall) on my site.
In all of my responses to him, I indicated that I am unwilling to change
the site based on the hearsay of one individual, especially when that
person has an apparent (in my opinion based on correspondance
received) bias for or against the material being questioned, however I
would be happy to revise the site in response to any documented
facts/evidence he can provide that the material I have is incorrect.
All I have received in return is statements about how much better the
KIM-1 was (I make no such comparisons on my site), how expensive
the Apple-1 and Apple-II were (I post no such prices on my site), and
rants about a website that apparently lists Woz as the "inventor of
the single-board computer" (I make no such claim on my site).
I should probably just ignore it - but the fact that I have been accused
of lying and deliberatly posting misinformation is disturbing to me ...
So - I throw it to the list - As a background statement showing that
Apple existed and sold a predecessor in small volumes for a time
before the Apple-II ... Is my posting above non-factual? If so, in
what way, and can you provide supporting documentation?
Please keep in mind that I do not wish to post a page about the Apple-1,
only a single paragraph as a way of introducing the guys who built
dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
Look for an Apple II with the "Alpha Centauri" (or did they call it "Alpha
Syntauri"?) package. It was fantastic! It used two cards from a company
named "Mountain Hardware" and was an amazing synthesizer with 5 octave AGO
keyboard and waveform design software. It was polyphonic but I don't
remember the number of voices. I had the pleasure of using one while at
George Mason University in Fairfax Virginia. We bought one (I was a
computer center administrator there at the time) for evaluation and then
bought more for the music department, and they loved them!
If you can find one, it will be a real treasure! I don't remember if I
have any recordings, and if I do they would be on cassette tapes that would
be nearly 30 years old. I did use a lot of metal tape back in those days,
so if the binder on the tape is still good, they may be playable. First,
I'll have to see if any of the recordings still exist, and that will have
to wait until I'm recovered (bronchitis).
Good luck with your project!
At 12/24/2006 04:08 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
>I am currently working on a project involving music made with
>computers before MIDI. Some aspects and examples might be the old
>mainframes playing tunes on band printers, minicomputers making tunes
>with RFI, microcomputers controlling analog synthesizers, and so
>I have no strict timeline on this, but I would like to pull things
>together in a few months maximum.
>Things I am looking for:
>1) Recordings of 2nd generation (or even before, if they exist)
>mainframes making tunes. There are a few recordings out there, and I
>may be getting some help from CHM for more.
>2) A working 1970s era minicomputer with core, probably a PDP-8 or
>Nova, that is reliable enough to make a performance.
>3) A 1970s era microcomputer controlling an analog synthesizer.
>4) Outstanding examples of Atari and/or C64s making music.
>5) Leads to artists and musicians that used classic computers in
>recordings, famous or not. Decent quality MP3s would be great.
>6) An example of the HP printer (a deskjet?) that contains the musical
>Easter Egg, operational.
>7) Any examples of music made by computer algorithms, remixes by
>computer, and so forth. Experimental works are welcome.
>8) Any suggestions to expand this. The computers need not be classics,
>the music need not be oddball, but the results should be a little on
>the weird side (for example, I do not need a Pentium 3 running
>Protools making trance).
>While I am not looking to buy any of these machines, I am looking for
>examples that are very reliable, and can travel to New Jersey for a
>Saturday morning (probably). Appearance is not important, being this
>will all take place in a studio.
>There is a very slim chance I can provide the minicomputer, but all my
>tapes are lost in limbo, so I doubt it. Being a PDP-8/S, normal PDP-8
>music tapes will not work. There is also a chance I can provide a
>Minimoog synthesizer, if someone can provide the microcomputer with
>D/A cards (for the control voltages) and some sort of software for
>making a tune.
>So please go and think about this, and tell me what you think, and if
>you can contribute. Certainly proper credit will be given to those
>that can help out, but sorry, no money. I am not getting paid for this
>Thank you for your time.
*** When replying to this message, please do not delete these ***
*** signature lines. Otakon Katsucon HP3000-L @classiccmp.org ***
*** DigitalCosplay.comJohnKorbPhoto.comJohnPKorb.com ***
Been looking at Process Software's stuff- for people who have worked
with MultiNet and TCPware, what's the difference? Process doesn't seem
to have a comparison between the two, only comparing with UCX. Which is
easier for a newcomer to VMS to configure?
I know that the issue is with TCP/IP v5.0 on the VAX since the same
problems do not occur with an Alpha running VMS v7.3-1-TCP/IP v5.3. The
network bogs down with many surplus packets as soon as a telnet
connection is opened (doesn't happen with rsh/rlogin).
might be time to polish the ol bifocals mon frere LOL
--- cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
<ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > are we talking about the same puters lol?
> Ouch!. No we're not...
> I read 'Portable' and 'Plus' in the message text and
assumed we were
> talking about Apple Macs. What I said applies to
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Found this on another list- thought someone might be interested.
I have a few older Silicon Graphics systems up for grabs if anyone is
interested. There's three 4D Predator racks, a deskside 4D/70GT and a
Challenge XL. All the machines are complete except for the Challenge
which is missing the CPU and memory boards. Except for that everything
is there. They also come with a few boxes of parts, cables, keyboards
and such. A 17" SGI monitor is also part of the lot.
Everything is free if you take them as is. If you only want boards or
other parts, I'll charge a small fee for the packaging material and for
The machines are located in Montreal, Canada.