Message: 2
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 10:30:35 -0800
From: "Michael Holley" <swtpc6800 at comcast.net>
Subject: A 1935 example of the internet.
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Message-ID: <0b8401c71bc0$2e32a410$6601a8c0 at downstairs2>
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> Hugo Gernsback started the magazines that became Popular Electronics and
> Radio Electronics. He was known for his predictions on the future of
> electronics. In the February 1935 issue of Radio Craft (later Radio
> Electronics) he describes in some detail a future home radio that includes
> television and electronic delivery of the newspaper. It appears to allow two
> way communication.
Actually, he described that system earlier than that in his fiction, a novel published in 1929 (but I think was serialized in Amazing Stories first and another source says it was written in 1911) titled _Ralph 124C41+_. (For those who don't know, Hugo Gernsback created the first magazines dedicated to science fiction, and the annual Hugo Awards, SF's "Oscars" as it were, are named after him).
The novel is full of cliches. Well, they're cliches now. They weren't then.
--
Ward Griffiths wdg3rd at comcast.net
When you let people do whatever they want, you get Woodstock. When you let
governments do whatever they want, you get Auschwitz. Doug Newman
Furthermorf, receiving individual posts could help
too. Its always a crap shoot for me when deciding if
its really worth my while to open a re:digest #...
____________________________________________________________________________________
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On 8 Dec, 2006, at 07:34, cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:04:28 +1300
> From: "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 40, Issue 15
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Message-ID:
> <f4eb766f0612071504q68f31c78ub5579055fec0aeb4 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Could someone please explain the time warp which allows digest issue
14 to
contain replies to messages in digest issue 15?
One lister complains about top posting, but it is equally, if not
more, confusing
to read replies to messages before the message itself, and this
happens a LOT.
I realise the list is moderated and there will be a lag, but is there
any reason the
messages cannot be kept in order. Please!
Roger Holmes
If you can deal with Mailorder:
http://www.affordablesurplus.com/syncom_floppy_diskette.asp
And, Athana still seems to be selling them as well:
http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html
Regards,
Al
Phila, PA
> From: Warren Wolfe <wizard at voyager.net>
>
> Anyway, diskettes are going the way of the dodo. I have several
> older machines, and spent a good part of the last two days trying,
> unsuccessfully, to find 5-1/4 inch diskettes for sale. They simply are
> not carried any more. And, I live in the heart of a truly major retail
> center -- I've been in EVERY major computer and electronics store, and
> many of the minor ones in the last 48 hours.
>
From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com>
>
>I've been having an esclating correspondance with a chap named
>"Murray Balascak" (anyone know him?) -
>
The following might come as a suprise: There are trolls on the internet.
There are psychos on the internet. There are irrational, obsessive,
socially retarded, self-important fanatics on the net.
Sometimes, one of them finds you, and makes you the subject of their current
delusion. They're easy to identify, and it's best not to have "escalating
correspondence" with them.
>
>I should probably just ignore it -
>
Bingo.
Responding to Chuck Guzis -
>
> (BTW, I still have a 2708 EPROM burner for a KIM-1 if anyone wants
> it.)
yes, please, if still available!
> I'm trying to remember if it was Solid State Music who
> offered the S- 100 6502 board. Does anyone recall?
>
I don't think SSM ever did a 6502 S100 board - the only one I know about
is from CRGS in Pennsylvania.
Jack
--
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12/8/2006 12:53 PM
If you haven't read the previously un-published Chapter 1.5 of Brian
Bagnall's Commodore history, take a look here -
http://www.commodorebook.com/contents/ch001.5%20TIM-KIM.pdf . No doubt
the KIM was a significant and capable system but, IMHO, the real
difference was intent - Chuck Peddle saw the KIM as a way to entice
engineers into trying and buying his processor; Woz saw the Apple I as a
true personal computer, though obviously that had a different meaning in
1976 than it did in 1981 or 2006.
The KIM-1 had a tremendous impact (relatively speaking) because it
provided a working system (or subsystem) with a common and reliable
hardware configuration to 100s/1000s of people. The result was an early
critical mass encouraging third party vendors (hardware and software)
and the development of an enthusiastic user community.
The Apple I never sold in any appreciable volume and may have been most
important as an "enabler", validating Woz - to himself! - as a capable
designer and validating Jobs - to himself! - as a visionary, though it
would seem that Paul Terrell (and certainly Mike Markula) shared that
vision as well. Terrell's financial commitment to Apple allowed Woz to
build something much closer to his view of what he wanted - the Apple
][.
My ][ cents -
Jack
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/580 - Release Date:
12/8/2006 12:53 PM
Hugo Gernsback started the magazines that became Popular Electronics and
Radio Electronics. He was known for his predictions on the future of
electronics. In the February 1935 issue of Radio Craft (later Radio
Electronics) he describes in some detail a future home radio that includes
television and electronic delivery of the newspaper. It appears to allow two
way communication.
There is a copy for sale on ePay that shows the cover and some internal
pages.
RADIO CRAFT 1935 MAGAZINE PREDICTS FUTURE RADIO in 1950
Item number: 170058678360
Michael Holley
www.swtpc.com/mholley
Dave,
Seems perfectly fine and reasonable to me.
You are dealing with a troll.
I'm sure the KIM-1 is a fine computer, but it's not terribly well known
except to early computing aficionados.
I think you should ignore him.
Your Apple II page is fine. The text is fine. It's truthful and relevant
to the history of the Apple II.
And thanks for providing the resources and great computing you do!
Regards,
Al Hartman
Phila, PA
> From: "Dave Dunfield" <dave06a at dunfield.com>
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I've been having an esclating correspondance with a chap named
> "Murray Balascak" (anyone know him?) - who contacted me regarding
> his displeasure with my mention of the Apple-1 on the Apple-II page of
> my site - here is what I have posted as part of my introdiuction to the
> Apple-II:
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> In 1976, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs formed the Apple Computer Company,
> and built a home computer they called the "Apple 1" in their garage. Although it
> required the users to provide their own cabinet, power supply, keyboard and
> video monitor, it didn't require a separate terminal, and a simple BASIC interpreter
> could be loaded with an optional cassette interface. Although it required a fairly
> technical user to complete the system and make it usable, about 200 Apple 1s
> were sold in the first year.
>
> The following year (1977), Apple refined the design, providing a keyboard and
> power supply and packaging the machine in a attractive low-profile plastic cabinet
> with simple connections for the video monitor and tape storage. Now - anyone
> who could plug two connectors together could use this computer. The result, called
> "Apple 2" was one of the most successful early personal computers, and sold
> many thousands of units.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> In Mr. Balascaks first correspondance, he stated that the KIM-1 was a far
> better machine than the Apple-1, asked if I had succumbed to "the relentless
> revisionism of the brand zealots?", and demanded that I "correct the above
> reference to show the machine's irrelevance".
>
> In his second correspondance, he stated that I am spreading "Apple
> propaganda", again stated that the KIM-1 was better, sold in higher
> quantities and cheaper (I still do not know what the KIM-1 has to do
> with an Apple-II page).
>
> In his third correspondance he acqused me of "posting lies and being
> worse than useless by corrupting history into fiction". Again, he stated
> that the KIM-1 was a far better machine and much cheaper.
>
> In his last email, he indicated that he believes I am responsable for the
> degradation of the internet and the reason that it cannot be trusted as
> a source of information.
>
> I don't know where this is coming from - I believe my reference to the
> Apple-1 is accurate considering it's brevity - Apple was formed in 1976
> and operated out of Jobs basement. The Apple-1 was sold through the
> homebrew computer club as well as a few of stores, and although I do
> not have confirmed numbers of sales, I believe it was around 200
> units.
>
> It was never my intention to make a page about the Apple-1 (I don't have
> one, and I only feature systems on my site which are in my collection)...
> I believe at some point someone asked why I didn't mention the Apple-1
> so I added this one paragraph as part of the Apple-II history. I have no
> other references to the Apple-1 (at least that I can recall) on my site.
>
> In all of my responses to him, I indicated that I am unwilling to change
> the site based on the hearsay of one individual, especially when that
> person has an apparent (in my opinion based on correspondance
> received) bias for or against the material being questioned, however I
> would be happy to revise the site in response to any documented
> facts/evidence he can provide that the material I have is incorrect.
>
> All I have received in return is statements about how much better the
> KIM-1 was (I make no such comparisons on my site), how expensive
> the Apple-1 and Apple-II were (I post no such prices on my site), and
> rants about a website that apparently lists Woz as the "inventor of
> the single-board computer" (I make no such claim on my site).
>
> I should probably just ignore it - but the fact that I have been accused
> of lying and deliberatly posting misinformation is disturbing to me ...
> So - I throw it to the list - As a background statement showing that
> Apple existed and sold a predecessor in small volumes for a time
> before the Apple-II ... Is my posting above non-factual? If so, in
> what way, and can you provide supporting documentation?
>
> Please keep in mind that I do not wish to post a page about the Apple-1,
> only a single paragraph as a way of introducing the guys who built
> the Apple-2.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> --
> dave06a (at) Dave Dunfield
> dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com
> com Collector of vintage computing equipment:
> http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/index.html
>
>
> ------------------------------
I'm attempting to build a Magic-1 using gEDA. Would anyone be interested
in a set of boards for the Magic-1? I'm just pondering the idea right
now.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
