I have an IBM 5155 with various peripheries that I would like to part
with. Some of these include both IDE and SCSI 8 bit cards, a 2MB EMS
RAM board, i/o cards, etc. The machine has been upgraded to 640KB of
base memory.
Email me for a list if you are interested. Asking price for the whole
lot is $250, but I'm negotiable.
Julian
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Rob O'Donnell
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:04 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: mini versus micro?
>
> At 20:08 18/05/2005, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
> >On 5/18/05, Rob O'Donnell
> <classiccmp.org at irrelevant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > The worst processor/user ratio I think I encountered was about 50
> > > users sharing a 486dx50.. It was in a rack case, in the
> top 6" of a
> > > 4' rack, the rest being blocked in empty space except for
> a UPS sat
> > > in the bottom. The users most definitely called it "the
> mainframe" !
> >
> >Worst processor/user ratio for PeeCee-class equipment, or on a
> >per-cycle basis?
>
> I was thinking specifically of the PeeCee based stuff. I did
> have for a while an ex-customer "Microfive" machine, 8088
> based, 12 serial ports on the back, no kb or video, and not
> PC architecture. With maximum users that would have been worse...
>
> Thinking about it, though, some of the VAX (11/780) and
> own-brand machines I used years back at Ferranti would have
> been far less cycles/user.
>
> [snip]
> >So in the great mini-vs-micro debate, once one is talking about later
> >16 and 32-bit minis (early 12 and 16-bit minis do tend to have one
> >medium-performance I/O bus), I'd have to say that I/O
> architecture has
> >as much to do with the definition as the number of processors.
>
> I think the micro/mini is a pretty hard distinction to make
> when talking about current hardware; the technologies
> cross-pollinate! Even in old stuff, it certainly sounds like
> it's more of a marketing term rather than a technical
> definition - The "small enough for a department to afford"
> meaning of mini feels best to me for the older machines.
>
I'm pretty sure there's no minicomputer class of system anymore. I believe
there are systems referred to as "Entry level", "Enterprise", "Mid-frame",
and "Mainframe"
I agree here though, it's all marketing. The only actual distinction you
can make hardware-wise is between microprocessor and non-microprocessor
based systems...a good example of this is DEC, who called every QBUS machine
a microcomputer.
I believe the proof in the pudding here is that there are now hundreds of
owners of "personal minicomputers" and even a few with "personal
mainframes."
There was some strange crossover material here too, like 1973's GT40
graphics workstation, which sat on a desk, and had its own CPU and whatnot,
that it shared with the 11/05...however, the 11/05 model was designated as a
minicomputer, even though some of the lowest end 11/05 models ran a single
user programming system off cassettes...if that's not a "personal
computer"....I don't know what is.
So to recap, in marketing terms, a personal computer is:
A computer architecture designed with a single user *in mind*.
A minicomputer is an architecture with a multiuser system in mind.
A mainframe is an architecture with a large number of multiple users in
mind.
How can I illustrate the difference between mainframe and mini? Back in the
day, I know there were some businesses that ran each of their engineering
areas each on a different mini, then the finance on another, administration
on another, etc. I honestly believe the marketing of the minicomputer to be
only groundbreaking in that it was the first step toward decentralized
computing...again, that's only *marketing* wise.
Of course, if you're DEC, you don't know what you're selling, so it's all
moot ;)
End rant :D
Julian
> Rob
>
>
At 10:12 PM 5/18/05 -0500, Scott wrote:
>On Tue, 17 May 2005 12:31:21 -0500
>Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
>
>> Scott Stevens wrote:
>> > (I'm considering a new look, since I've been getting weary of the
>> > funny looks from 10 year old boys at McDonalds these days.)
>>
>> Your license plate wouldn't happen to be "D-FENS", would it? ;-)
>
>Actually, since in this state we only have a rear license plate, I
>recently got one of these
>http://www.opengroup.org/pubs/catalog/n900.htm (UNIX license plate) for
>the front.
>
Carefull! The ten year old crowd may think you mean EUNUCH!
Does anyone have any information about this IC? I have two of them. I
found them in the memory section of an Intel 8008 based computer. The other
RAMs are Intel 1101s so I'm guessing that these are equivelent parts but I
want to be sure. The date code on these is 7114 and they're white ceramic
with gold lids and faint grey traces to each leg. Here
<http://www.classiccmp.org/hp/i8008-1/close-up.jpg> is a picture of the
board with the two ICs installed. The ICs in the top row are 1702 EPROMs.
The 1101 RAMs are in the second row. These two parts are the 2nd and 3rd
parts from the RH end. FWIW I have a 1970 and a 1973 Fairchild catalogs but
neigher one lists any uA36xx parts.
Joe
I need a font for Winders that looks like the outputfrom a chain printer
or common line printer.
Does anyone have anything like this?
Thanks!
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
>1. Microcomputer
>
>A "microcomputer" is defined as a computer having no more than two
>microprocessors used for general purpose processing within the computer.
>For the purposes of this class, a "microprocessor" is defined as a central
>processing unit comprised of not more than 4 individual LSI intgerated
>circuit on a single board, with the entire ALU being contained within a
>single integrated circuit.
Will this definition change when Apple starts selling 4 processor G5
towers? Or will those (and 4 processor Pentium workstations), not apply
because they are far too new?
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
Sellam wrote:
> Does the thing sitting in front of you "compute"? Are you the only one
> using it at any one time? If so, I'd call that a Personal Computer ;)
<wacky humor>
Your're excluding quite a few Wintel boxen out there with your definition.
How many of those aren't used exclusively by their obvious "operators", if
you count in "timesharing" them with back orifice users, adware/spyware
distributors and the like?
</wacky humour>
So long,
--
Arno Kletzander
Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen
www.iser.uni-erlangen.de
Weitersagen: GMX DSL-Flatrates mit Tempo-Garantie!
Ab 4,99 Euro/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
Hi All,
Anybody who is interested in surplus auctions, federal regulations
concerning surplus (computers) auctions or reselling and who live
nearby the University of Michigan, might be interested in attending the
University Surplus Property Association annual meeting this upcoming
weekend. This is a policy/association meeting...not an auction, but it
is important for our hobby!
http://surplus.msu.edu/uspa_docs/agenda.htm
I frequently attend surplus property auctions at some of the local (and
not so local) colleges and Universities in and around Arizona, as they
almost always have various classic computers at great prices (even next
to nothing/free).
Several years ago I attended a conference here at the University of
Arizona of the University Surplus Property Association. This is a fairly
new association put together to help organizations, especially
universities and colleges deal with property management and the sale and
disposition of universiy property. This has become an issue with many
major universities as the dealing with the sale and disposition of
thousands of old computers can be a real pain in the ass, but not if it
can generate a revenue stream.
Many universities have taken the easy way out and just turned everything
overt to liquidators at a set price and be done with it. Some
universities like the University of Arizona have a surplus property
department that sells thousands of items every month. The U of A's
surplus auction have generated a positive cash flow for several years
now and is model now for several universities. More importantly, the
current surplus policy at the U of A and many other universities is one
of reselling rather than refuse/elimination, especially if it generates
revenue! SO it is a great way to acquire/save/buy many classic
computers. Time to time we get a fair amount of classic computers go
through the U of A that are only now being retired, as they may have
been used as part of a lab and is only now being replaced. In the
private sector these computers were replaced decades ago. I have a
fairly large classic computer collection and 95 percent of it was
acquired at the U of A.
We recently had a concerned member on this list bemoan the fact that
surplus auctions may be a thing of the past, dure to onerous new Federal
Regulations. Well there is a special session at the USPA meeting that
addresses this same problem. I am sure they have the correct information
regarding these laws and it might be good for a member of this list to
attend!
Let me point out that this new association has already convinced several
universities to open thier own "surplus property" offices to try and
generate some revenue from old property instead of going through private
sector liquidators/scrappers. Most likely there have been hundreds of
classic computers that have landed in the hands of enthusiasts and
hobbyist instead of the dump.
The meeting also includes several other interesting items, such as
selling on ebay and fair market valuation. Sellam Ismail has stated that
the community need several data points to really establish fair values
on antique computers. While this one would not be fair to sellers, it is
certainly a valuble data point to buyers.
All in all, as a former attendee, I encourage anybody who may be
interested to attend! (They are fairly flexible on
attendence/registration requirements) I went just as a member of the public!
Cheers,
Tom
AK6DN on ebay (Don North) is reading the digests of this list.
As Al indicated, I did have some involvement with the 11/60 (I wrote
the microdiagnostic code and the FP macro diagnostics). I have lost
my copies of these two over the last 30 yrs (go figure) and wanted
to replace them. I do have an old hard copy of the FP11-E hardware
macrodiagnostic (DQFPE) which can be scanned as well.
Any 11/60 (or other -11 doc for that matter) doc I get via EBAY will be
made available for bitsavers scanning (or hard copies if so desired) so
no need to worry about it getting hoarded in some private archive.
BTW I was also involved in writing microcode for the 11/74 commercial
instruction set option, but this product was cancelled before it
shipped.
The 11/74 blew the pants off the newly announced 11/780 when it ran
commercial Cobol ... as long as your program fit in 64K :-)
Don North
ak6dn _at_ mindspring _dot_ com
north _at_ alum _dot_ mit _dot_ edu
> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 14:44:31 +0200
> From: Gooijen H <GOOI at oce.nl>
> Subject: RE: question about 11/60 documentation on eBay
> To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
> <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
> Hello Al,
>
> thanks very much for the reply.
> I am posting the reply to the list, so that others are informed too.
> I am not 100% clear what you mean with the last sentence.
> However, it looks that the documents will be available for bitsavers
> and that is good enough for me. If needed, I will support (donate)
> for the good cause :~)
>
> thanks!
> - Henk, PA8PDP.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
> > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of aek at bitsavers.org
> > Sent: woensdag 18 mei 2005 14:34
> > To: classiccmp at classiccmp.org
> > Subject: Re: question about 11/60 documentation on eBay
> >
> >
> > ak6dn is Don North, a friend of mine and one of the people
> > who worked on the 11/60 and 11/74
> >
> > If he is outbid or sniped, I will get these documents for him.
>
> > James Fogg
> > Well if you don't, others might (I would take one if its in
> the North
> > East US).
>
> The two 11/75's plus peripherals plus RSX11M docs/media are
> in Maryland, close to DC. That northeast enough for you? :>
Too far. I'd go as far as Harrisburg, PA for the right system, but even
that is 2 days.
