Before I go insane, can someone tell me the magic key sequence used to
get into the mnemonic debugger at startup on Apollo machines?
(Specifically a 425t, but I expect it's the same sequence on all
flavours)
I managed it - once, after much random tapping, and thought it was a
simple double return that did it. Made the mistake of rebooting so I
could move the machine to a more useful position, then discovered that
it *wasn't* a double return.
Nothing in the manuals (install / owner's guide, anyway) saying how to
do it - they only mention how to do it from a machine that's already
booted into the OS.
The machine's sitting there trying to load across the network when it
can't find an OS on local disk, which I don't want it to do - I've put
an empty disk in there *because* I want to install an OS on it from
local tape. There must be some way to interrupt it in order to get into
the debugger. Grrr!
(I could pull the token-ring board, but I have a feeling it's trying to
boot across the onboard Ethernet anyway, not token-ring, so it wouldn't
help)
Maybe if I leave it long enough (like, more than the 20 mins I've given
it already) it'll time out...
cheers
Jules
> > epay's got a lovely 11/34(prob a or c) two rack system
> going for 880$
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&it
> em=5178288415&rd=1
> > looks like tektronix test system - the cpu box looks fully
> > loaded possibly with the fp11 and or 11/34c cache board, 2RLs
> > and a DEC 9 track tape drive, controllers, semi ram., two
> > short racks.
> > you should be able to squeeze these into a single tall rack
> > if you're careful.
> > Should run Unix V7 quite nicely!
>
> Oh the temptation! It's 2 hours away from me (no shipping).
Indeed. Judging the two Over-The-Top connectors, the CPU must be
the 11/34A, because it has installed the floating point _and_ the
cache option.
The only worry about this configuration is the condition of the
TU10. The capstan roller in the top of the TU10 tape drive can be
bad. The rollers in both TE16's of mine have gone goo.
The rubber ring that clamps the mounted tape can be worn too,
but I have heard a story that, if the ring is not to bad, you can
revitalise it in warm water. I've never done that (yet) though...
- Henk, PA8PDP.
> Gee... lets just completely overlook the Apple Mac Portable
> and mention
> the Powerbook 100 instead... The Tandy 100 could've gotten
> a mention,
> even the Atari Portfolio could've gotten a mention too.
>
> Its times like this, you want to roll those mags up and shove
> it up the editors arse !!! ;-)
Magazine writers are Journalism and English majors. They are one
paycheck away from "would you like fries with that?" The relentless
drumbeat of deadlines makes them desperate to fill their little part of
the magazine with anything that sounds good, or it's fry grease for
them. After a while they begin to believe their swollen ego.
It's not just computer mags, look at all the hopelessly simplified (or
wrong) psychological advice given in women's magazines.
> epay's got a lovely 11/34(prob a or c) two rack system going for 880$
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&it
em=5178288415&rd=1
> looks like tektronix test system - the cpu box looks fully
> loaded possibly with the fp11 and or 11/34c cache board, 2RLs
> and a DEC 9 track tape drive, controllers, semi ram., two short racks.
> you should be able to squeeze these into a single tall rack
> if you're careful.
> Should run Unix V7 quite nicely!
Oh the temptation! It's 2 hours away from me (no shipping).
After reviewing the last month's messages on the cctech archive web
site, thought I should introduce myself.
I'm racing up to 63 - wish it went slower, but that's life.
My first computer was in the Army in 1960 - an analogue manual input job
on a mortar tracking radar. That was at Ft. Monmouth; after that, I was
transferred to Restone Arsenal, Alabama and trained on the "Jukebox".
It was a vacuum tube computer with a fixed disk main memory used in
targeting the Redstone Missile. (I think it was made by Autonetics, but
45 year old memories aren't reliable.)
Right after learning the Jukebox, was transferred to the Pershing and
trained on a transistor drum memory targeting computer made by Martin
Marietta in Orlando. It was exciting, learning all this "new"
technology. Transistors were just getting accepted for mil spec programs.
We even had a class from RCA for something they called Integrated
circuits - the first commercial family of ICs. Was RTL. I still have
the data sheets they gave us some place in the garage.
After Uncle Sam, I went to Minneapolis to work for Control Data. That
was mid-1963 - was trained on the 160-A and 1604. At that time, CDC
didn't make its own peripherals, so we used IBM 523s, 088s and Ampex
tape units. The first 160s used Ferranti paper tape readers (with
thyrotrons) and Teletype punches. The typewriter was a model B IBM with
a Soroban encoder.
A few months later, Normandale Ops came up with the 606 tape units,
followed by the 405 card reader, 415 card punch and 350 paper tape
reader. More equipment to learn and support.
They also repackaged the 160 in an industrial cabinet and called it the
8090. A smaller division called IDP (Inductrial Data Products) created
a tiny 8 bit version called the 8092 for some telecommunication systems
they were doing for ARPA. Used teletypes and 101 Bell modems. (Some
arguments abput it being the first PC like computer.) They also sold it
to a company called Rabinow who made the first commercial OCR scanners.
(Biggest customer was the IRS - who had a policy of auditing anybody who
worked on their equipment.)
Since I was a customer engineer in the Minneapolis area, I had to
support all of these new products. I started a new way of life - new
product training every few months, then working on the buggy new
products from the prototype on.
Eventually, I logged more than 5000 hours of class room training on CDC
and other vendors products! All the CDC peripherals, plus IBM for unit
record, Ampex tapes, Analex printers, Holly Printers, Bryant Drums, IBM
1311 and 2311 disks, flexowriters, Selectrics, Teletype readers,
punches, Model 32, 33 and 35 I/O printers, Bell 101 and 301 modems, etc.
As CDC grew, they bought out other computer operations. So those of us
in the field were also expected to support the Bendix G-15, RPC-4000,
LPG-30, etc.
It seemed inpossible to stay current - there were just so many systems
coming out. For example, in 1964, I had training on the 6600. And a
few months later, trained on the 3600. Said training consisted of weeks
in the classroom followed by working on the assembly line debugging the
systems after they were built.
One bright light manager even had the idea to save money by using us to
support software since we were already in the field. That way, his
programmers didn't have to deal with customers. It didn't take long
for this brainstorm to crash; but a bunch of us were also trained on the
software, especially the 3300 MSOS and MOS.
Over the next 12 years, I stayed in field support, first as an engineer
then Tech Support. Was moved around constantly: Atlanta; Huntsville;
Houston; The Hague, Holland; London, England; Detroit; Mississauga,
Ontario Canada.
At this point, I left field support and was in R&D on a machine called
the Star-65. It was to be a smaller model of the Star 100. The
development was in Canada (Mississauga). When the Star was killed, we
did a rush program called Cyber 170, CDC's first all IC machine.
After 4 years in the lab, I longed to get back to the field side, so
transferred to Oklahoma City and worked on the Magnetic Periphersals'
14" cartridge drives. Then the 8" Lark; the 940X floppies; and finally
on the 5" inch Wren series.
After 23 years at CDC, I hired on with Fujitsu and moved to Silicon
Valley. Managed a group of enginers who supported the peripheral
products at OEM sites, primarily Sun and Tandem. My area was disks,
tapes, MOs, printers and scanners.
Fujitsu faded away, so after 8 years I moved over to Quantum. Again
working on disks. Supported all the top 10 OEMs, but primarily Apple
and Compaq. It was a matrix style company, so I was also on new Product
Teams, getting new drives through the qualification process. Most of
these were SCSI-2 and SCSI-3 3.5". Though we did have one 5.25" called
the BigFoot. (A infamous legend in its own right.)
Finally, a chance came up to get away from hard drives. I joined
Philips and managed a group supporting their OEM customers using
Philips CD and DVD recorders and media. This was sheer joy - new
technology with fun applications. The design work was in Eindhoven,
Holland and Hasselt, Belgium so there were some great trips. Initially,
the manufacturing was in Gyor, Hungary which was also a fabulous place
to visit.
Even had to set up lab full of Xboxes and test all the new games to see
that they worked on the DVD-ROM!
Eventually, Philips exited the designing and manufactuing end. All that
is left is a small sales force. The rest of us in the Sunnyvale group
scattered. And now some of us old timers are relaxing and thinking of
the past. Time for grand children and travel.
It was fun being on the cutting edge for 45 years. I miss it. Need
something to keep my mind busy.
---------------------------------
So that's it for the classic side. Except to add that I saved all of
the manuals on equipment I worked on. Eventually, I had to thin them
out and dumped a lot of the wire lists, software manuals, periperal
manuals, SPAM boxes and general papers. Excepting the
160-A/8090/8092/5101 systems. I always loved them, so kept all the
hardware, software, listings, tapes, cards, etc. I think I still have
schematics of every computer I worked on, but my garage is a solid mass
of books and electronics. Before I can retire and move, it has to
shrink by 90%. So I've been looking for a home for it.
---------------------------------
I always wanted to have a home system, so in the late 60's I designed a
TTL 160-A. There were already several amateur computer groups active -
ACS was the most productive. They had a newsletter out that had several
designs using TTL and DTL. One used some DEC modules.
And then came the famous Radio Electronics article on the Mark 8. It
was a great milestone - a real home computer. I promptly sent off for
it. Bought an 8008, for $160! But we had started our family that
year, so hobbies were put on hold. 30+ years later, 4 kids are
raised, through University and raising their own families. Time to play
again.
I still have the virgin Mark 8 PCBs. In fact they are still in the box
they came in! Along with all the components, bought new and never used.
I would occasionally pick up micro computers and PCs as they came out,
but most are now long gone. I kept a few just because they were small:
Kim, Sym, Ebka, PAIA, MicroProfessor, etc. I think I still have all the
manuals and software too.
I dumped the TRS-80s, Amigas, Ataris, and early PCs. There is still a
little of SWTP 6800 stuff left, including some of the TV Typewriters.
And most of the assembly manuals. I also keep most of the books,
magazines and newsletters from that era.
But my PDP-8s are in the Oklahoma City landfill, along with all the
discarded CDC manuals, and half a dozen other minis of that era. At
that time, I made a little money on the side by rebuilding Teletypes.
When we moved, my spare parts and extra 33s went to the highest bidder:
$100 for 10 machines and several hundred pounds of spare parts.
The calculator collection went too, sadly. I had two working Friden
130/132s. I still mourn their loss.
I had picked up a lot of data manuals, parts and ICs, but also dumped
them at OkCity. And then started again in California. But it wasn't
organised collecting so there is only a hodge podge of products and
books filling the garage. Promised my wife I'd clean it out this year, a
chore I'm really dreading
-----------------------------
I apologise for the long message. Some other people not on the list
will also get this.
Billy
> I'd like to include a PDP in my collection, but not sure what
> to go for? My requirements would be
>
> 1) It has to be a 70's design
> 2) It needs to be reasonably compact
> 3) I'd like to run something 'unix like'
> with a c compiler as an option.
> 4) My budget is not huge <$1000
>
> Any recommendations?
I'd vote for the 11/23, mostly because it was the last of the 70's
(1979), they were produced in large numbers and are compact. Most were
built with the (then) brand-new RL02 drives. The design continued for
many years and lots of DEC and non-DEC boards are available for neat
things like MFM drives large ammounts of memory.
I have one I got for free, exactly as pictured here with VT101 and LA36
DecWriter-II printing terminal...
http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/1979-2.htm
The link says Microsoft, but it's Gordon Bells page.
==========================
Richard A. Cini, Jr.
First Vice President
Wachovia Capital Finance
1133 Avenue of the Americas
30th Floor
New York, NY 10036
(212) 545-4402
(212) 840-6259 (facsimile)
Does someone have this available as a PDF?
Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Eric Smith
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:43 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Good description of Apple ][ disk controller
I wrote:
>> You want the book "The Apple II Circuit Description", or "The Apple IIe
>> Circuit Description", by Winston Gayler.
Sellam wrote:
> While that's a good book, it has nothing on the disk controller. See
> my previous message for a better selection.
Oh. I suppose I must be hallucinating when I look at this copy in
front of me. The table of contents lists chapter 9 as being "The
Disk Controller". And pages 9-1 through 9-45 seem to give a detailed
explanation of how it works. But I guess this must just be a
particularly strange side effect of the drugs that I'm not taking.
>> The bits shift in from the right, and there's no counter. The only
>> way you can tell that the complete "nybble" has been read is that the
>> MSB of the shift register is set.
> How...lame. There's a specific number of cycles that it takes to assemble
> an 8-bit byte.
No, there aren't. The disk drive operates asynchronously to the
computer, and motor speed variations of both the drive that wrote the
disk and the drive that's reading it affect it a lot.
> Why can't one just go off this timing to determine when a
> full byte is read? And if this is possible, then does that mean that one
> can really store a byte that doesn't have the MSB set, and subsequently
> read it back?
Not reliably.
> I see. And this is where I'm confused. Beneath Apple DOS shows diagrams
> that indicate there's a clock pulse between every data bit. So either
> that diagram is wrong, and there are no clock pulses,
The authors of Beneath Apple DOS had no clue whatsoever as to what was
going on at that level, so they apparently just assumed that it worked
the same as other disk controllers in that regard.
There are no clock bits. That's the whole point of GCR.
Fortunately they understood the higher-level stuff, so the rest of
the book is much more accurate.
> According to my reading (in Beneath Apple DOS), you can only have *one
> pair* of consecutive zeros in any one byte, but it was not clear if that
> was a hardware constraint or an artificial constraint to pare down the
> number of "legal" values.
Artificial constraint. The hardware (w/ the 16 sector state machine)
can deal with any nybble that has the MSB set, and no more than two
consecutive zeros.
Eric
> Nice. We've got one of those 4631 hardcopy units, but nobody with any
> knowledge about them (is there any particular Tek they're supposed to be
> used with?)
>
I used a 4052 many years ago with the dual floppy. I think the 46x1 devices
are all compatible. The one 4611 that was around back then printed a
different size image than the 4631's.
They should work with a 4010-1 or later storage tube terminal. They also
has 613 monitors that they would also work with.
I have a 4631 sort of. I purchased is as that and thats what the plate
says but somebody put the 4632 video interface board in it so I can't
use it with my 4010-1. Anybody have a junk 4631 I could get the board
from? Or a 46x1 they don't want?
>any way to get the consumables for these. I recall some special roll of
>paper, plus a liquid fixing material. didnt they come out wet?
>
The 46x1 used dry silver paper which was exposed by the single line CRT in the
hard copy unit then developed with heat. The I think the 3m 7?? silver paper
will also work. Tek number may be 006-1603. The stuff has a shelf life
so you probable won't get good copies with the old stuff from ebay etc
I haven't been able to try my out of date roll. I don't know if anybody
still makes the paper but a new roll used to be >$100. It was also used
for microfiche printers.
My Tektronix magnetism is still working. Yesterday I got a call from one
of my sources to tell me that they had a new load of stuff but they added
that they thought it was all "crap". Went out there anyway and they first
thing that I found was a Tektronix 4052 computer :-). Dug a little further
and found a Tektronix 4631 Hardcopy unit and two Tektronix 8" disk drives
:-) :-) :-)
AFIK this is the first set of disk drives that anyone has ever found for
a 4052 and only the second set of disk drives for ANT 405x computer.
Eveything was in surprisingly good condition. One key had been knocked
off the keyboard but I found it in the pile and it didn't look like the
keyswitch was broken. I didn't find the interconnecting cables but the 4052
uses a regular GP-IB cable to talk to the master disk drive and a straight
through cable to connect the two disk drives. I haven't looked to see what
the hardcopy unit uses.
Joe
