October 2005 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Releasing OS/2 > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:14:24 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: >> >>What I'd like to see is a comparison of OS/2 to say DRI Concurrent386 >>and Win3.1 or Nt3. I picked the latter two as I know them well. I have >>both concurrent386 and OS/warp 3 but never used them. Maybe I'm missing >>something and I'd like to have an idea of and how practical their use >>would be in the present as part of my PC based supporting systems. >> >> >Lets not forget OS/9 for the 6809 , just for a reality check of >multi-tasking. My original intent was limited to OSs that were operable on PCs. If there is OS/9 for PC then by all means but I'd suspect comparison would be to unix/linux rather than Dos/win. While I'd not mind seeing that I have no real 6809 hardware other than a COCO-II that is sans case. Found it on the side of the road with smashed case but fully intact and operable. While 1+ing the question we can add 8bit multitasking for Z80 other than MP/M to look at. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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FW: LARGEST COMPUTER COLLECTION IN THE WORLD (?) FOR SALE

by news＠computercollector.com

Hey folks, last night I recieved the message below. This guy posted an identical message to Erik's www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum page as well. I have no information about the credibility of the seller. It's certainly not the "largest computer collection in the world" but it should be an interesting discussion. ;) - Evan _____ From: INFO at FKI.BE [mailto:info at fki.be] Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 6:18 AM To: news at computercollector.com Subject: LARGEST COMPUTER COLLECTION IN THE WORLD (?) FOR SALE Hi there, I am selling my complete collection of computers (over 570 different ones). If you are interested in some computer(s) from my collection, just mail me at info AT fki DOT be (replace AT by @ and DOT by .) and I'll add you to the list of possible buyers. I will then mail you back explaining how I intend to sell the computers. As you can see from my 100% positive feedback on Ebay (member ChaosDM) this is not a scam, but a serious sale. I don't want to go through Ebay directly, because listing 570 different items separately would take AGES! Anyway...the list of the collection can be seen here : <http://users.pandora.be/F-242/Computers.htm> http://users.pandora.be/F-242/Computers.htm There are a LOT of very and ULTRA rare items in there For example : A GOLDEN C64 WITH COMMEMORATIVE PLAQUE! A LOT OF ARABIC MSx's A LOT OF RUSSIAN COMPUTERS ETC... Cheers, Dimitri Kokken Belgium

20 years, 8 months

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Releasing OS/2

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Releasing OS/2 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:37:43 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 10/14/2005 at 5:11 PM Allison wrote: > >>While 1+ing the question we can add 8bit multitasking for Z80 other than >>MP/M to look at. > >Molecular was running MT software simply by using a CPU card for each user. One approach. I ran a multiprocessor Z80 system back in '81-82 with one difference idle processors (or processors idling) could take on tasks >from the system exec. > >That Durango system (that I'm STILL trying to give away) was designed from >the ground up with MT in mind. Since the 8085 can't do dynamic address >relocation very easily, we simply put the MT facilities in the compiled (to >a sort of P-code) BASIC. File access control and data sharing was a part >of it. Except for the very lowest level system utilities, all programs >were written in it. A 5 MHz 8085 could support 5 users quite comfortably. >Added memory was 1K pages, mapped through 64x9 bipolar RAM. I've done a memory paged 8085 system, interesting. I have to ask, how does all of this fit with the question?: How does OS/2 warp V3 compare to other PC OSs like CDR Concurrnet386 or win3.1? Allison

20 years, 8 months

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MPX-16 census

by trag＠io.com

>Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:25:03 +0000 >From: Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> >Subject: Re: MPX-16 census >der Mouse wrote: >>>I've never heard of anybody making more than double-sided PCBs at >>>home (I would love to be proved wrong!). >> >> >> I can't *prove* you wrong. But I've spoken with someone who claimed to >> have done it, and when I started asking questions, talked a good enough >> line that I found it believable. As she described it, you need >> epoxy/fibreglass mix, which you cast a thin sheet of. You then sand it >> smooth, copper-plate it, and etch. Slap on another coat of epoxy and >> fibreglass, let it cure, sand it smooth, copper-plate, and etch. >> Lather, rinse, repeat. >> >> The hard part is of course quality control (and plated-through vias, >> which you can get somewhere with by drilling holes before doing the >> last copper-plating). And registration of the layers. But with >> patience and attention to detail...after all, anyone doing this is >> considering time to be worth a great deal less than money, or the job >> would simply be shipped off to a commercial pcb fab house. :) > >It's the sort of thing I can see our Mr Duell doing though. This is a topic that interests me. The most useful sounding site I've found so far is this one <http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/volvi/pcbproto.htm> IIRC, they recommend drilling your boards before etching so that you can use the hole locations to help with your layer registration. They also have an interesting ink and electroplating system to create plated-through vias. (As an aside, I found another site one time where a fellow had replaced the pen in a plotter with a drill and was using it to drill boards with an Apple II(?) driving the thing. <http://rich12345.tripod.com/PCB/> It would be an interesting project if one could make it interpret Excellon drill files.) However, the information on greater than 2 layer boards is thin. They seem to imply that you can etch seperate thinner boards and then laminate them together, but there's no detail on what kind of board would work for this. There's an obscure reference to not fully cured fiberglass or some such. The implication is that, e.g. one could make a total .062" thick board with four layers out of three boards laminated together--perhaps three .020" boards. The two outer boards would be double sided circuit boards and the center would be a separator with plated-through vias and "doughnuts" at the plated-through holes to make contact from one board to the next. I'm curious about what one would need in terms of board or additives to laminate multi-layer boards together. A standard fully cured board isn't going to stick, I don't think. Building multi-layer boards out of raw fiberglass/epoxy mix and copper plating it oneself does not sound like a viable home project. At least, not for me. Jeff Walther

20 years, 8 months

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PING: Ashley Carder

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

I've been trying to contact you... Are my emails getting through or vanishing into the ether? Direcway is notorious as a conduit for spammers and is often blocked without warning, but it's my only option here in the country other than dialup :( -Charles

20 years, 8 months

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how_to_build book online

by jack.rubin＠ameritech.net

I finally (re)found my copy of "How to Build A Working Digital Computer" by Alcosser, et al, published in 1967. This is the "paper clips and spools" computer - definitely worth a look - http://www.sideslip.net/digital_compu/ . It's a scan of a copy from a dying book so parts of it are not too pretty but I think its all there. Enjoy - Jack

20 years, 8 months

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Releasing OS/2

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Releasing OS/2 > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:55:01 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 10/14/2005 at 9:28 PM Allison wrote: > >>I have to ask, how does all of this fit with the question?: > >You asked about Z80 MT outside of MP/M. I pointed out that there's more >than one way to skin a cat. In particular, MT does not have to be an >integral feature of the OS itself. I did not ask about Z80 MT as a direct part of the question on OS/2. In fact any comments made were along the lines of scarcasm while we are talking about OS/2 lets let in the world of other OSs even the 8 bit ones that are not relevent to OS/2. Maybe for once I was too subtle? As to Z80 MTasking OSs there are several but I elected to layer a task executive on/under CP/M V2 as I had it and there was nothing to say it wouldn't work. Its big value was using all those idle cycles waiting for keystrokes. I did it back around '81-2. and it was an interesting exercise in hardware and software. The real question, the one I'd really like to know more about, was and is: I have OS/2warp3 how does it compare to Concurrent386 and win3.1 in the PC realm? I have both OS/2W3 and CC386 but never installed them for no real reason. What have I missed? Allison

20 years, 8 months

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Unisys, shame on you

by James＠jdfogg.com

> While surfing the Unisys websight, I found nearly NO mention > of either Burroughs or Univac. One more reason to > like IBM. William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org > > And what did you expect? I worked for Unisys, and for Sperry > before. I am surprised Unisys is still in business, since > they don't seem to know what market to get into. Can you still buy a system that supports Poll Select? I love that protocol.

20 years, 8 months

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Archival storage

by James＠jdfogg.com

> This whole discussion about the volatility of storage reminds > me of a conversation I had recently with a friend who's a > professional archivist. I asked her what medium was used for > archival storage--CD-ROM, DVD, etc.? > > Paper. No ifs ands or buts about it. Sorry to steal your thread, but... I have been talking with my state's historical archiving group. They are very interested in some form of digital media for archiving, and are now aware that paper (and microform) still offer the best solutions. They are back to the issue of digital archiving for a new reason, space. They would like to have some form of high density storage (higher than paper) and they can accommodate a shorter shelf life if they can get it into the 10+ year range. They are exploring a digitization program with long-term remote storage of the original material in a storage facility (off-line storage if you will), and a technology refresh program to re-format the digital storage as mediums change (like the recent move >from CD-ROM to DVD-ROM). Does anyone know if there are optical formats that can reliably deliver 10 year shelf-life? How does one achieve it (different types of cd-r chemistry, using cd-rom, etc)?

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Unisys, shame on you

by tradde＠excite.com

--- On Fri 10/14, William Donzelli < aw288 at osfn.org > wrote: From: William Donzelli [mailto: aw288 at osfn.org] To: cctalk at classiccmp.org Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unisys, shame on you While surfing the Unisys websight, I found nearly NO mention of either Burroughs or Univac. One more reason to like IBM. William Donzelli aw288 at osfn.org And what did you expect? I worked for Unisys, and for Sperry before. I am surprised Unisys is still in business, since they don't seem to know what market to get into. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!

20 years, 8 months

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A few items for sale

by jcwren＠jcwren.com

Some of these items may interest folks. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjcwren --jc

20 years, 8 months

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Looking for a IBM 5110 EMI filter.

by henk.stegeman＠shell.com

Hi all, Who can help me with an EMI filter from an IBM 5110 ? Mine has an internal non-repairable short circuit. This EMI filter is a CORCOM type F2280 and is located in the mains entry box underneath the screen tube. Any one ? Thanks Henk

20 years, 8 months

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OT: Language for the ages

by dave04a＠dunfield.com

>Suppose you wanted to write an application for a manufacturing process that >will, in all probability, run for the next 30 years. No direct control of >the process itself is entailed (i.e., you don't need the program to >operation valves or run motors), but you do need this program to compute >manufacturing parameters for each customer. I/O requirements are very >modest, mostly simple keyboard and display. > >What would you write it in? Clearly, you'd want to be independent of a >particular software vendor, so the likes of Visual BASIC isn't an option. >You'd also want to write in a language that isn't nearing obsolesence, nor >one that's still evolving. "Niche" languages would be out of the question, >as longevity could be a problem. > >So what would it be? My vote is for FORTRAN. Impossible to say without a better specification of the application, however given the longevity requirement, unless it was a very bad fit, I would probably use 'C' (not C++, C# etc - plain vanilla 'C') for several reasons: - It's been around a long time, and has been ported to many different platforms, making it a well known and popular language. - It has a reasonably clearly defined standard. - It has always been developed with an eye to portability. - It is still being used in many systems, and is likely to continue to be used for a considerable time into the future. - It's flexible enough to use as a general purpose language, and has the ability to get "down and dirty" if you need. (Ie: It will probably not be a bad environment for the task at hand). But what is probably the most important reason to me: - I have a mature 'C' compiler (I first released it in 1988) which I can port to any damn platform I need, so I don't have to count on having a vendor to support C tools on this future unknown system. Regards, Dave -- dave04a (at) Dave Dunfield dunfield (dot) Firmware development services & tools: www.dunfield.com com Collector of vintage computing equipment: http://www.parse.com/~ddunfield/museum/index.html

20 years, 8 months

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Releasing OS/2

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Releasing OS/2 > From: "John Allain" <allain at panix.com> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:59:09 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > What I'd like to see is a comparison of OS/2 to say DRI Concurrent386 and Win3.1 or Nt3. I picked the latter two as I know them well. I have both concurrent386 and OS/warp 3 but never used them. Maybe I'm missing something and I'd like to have an idea of and how practical their use would be in the present as part of my PC based supporting systems. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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OT: Language for the ages

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: OT: Language for the ages > From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:37:39 -0700 (PDT) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >> > Are there any schools teaching FORTRAN and more? Does it >> >have an active community? If not, ... >> >> Amazingly*, Yes. >> I go visit my old college bookstore every few years for fresh titles >> in Computer Science (this year: I bought O/S internals by Stallings). >> It's a top 25 undergraduate engineering ranked place with a big >> budget for new equipment so I was quite surprised to see this year >> the book "Classical Fortran" by Kupferschmid. In my head I'm thinking >> Fortran is Only for classiccmps and classiccmps are Retired equipment. >> Apparently this course is for maintenence programmers. >> >> John A. >> * to me, for one. >> > >Fortran seems to still be the favorite language for number crunching. > > Zane That is the forte' of Fortran. However user interfaces in fortran are sparse as the language is not well suited to textual data. I feel there is no one language for all tasks. For example older 8080/z80 hardware was likely programmed in ASM for embedded apps due to size constraints of availabe ROMs. However I've seen a lot of stuff with basic in ROM and the programming in BASIC so the hardware could be somewhat self supporting. It would seem that languages that persist are those best able to cope with large changes in computing environments. Fortran and BASIC are old and well known as are Pascal and C and likely a few others. The rest are dialects or specializations that live in specific application environments. When those environments become passe` or surperceeded the languages will either evolve or become "old". Allison

20 years, 8 months

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luddites!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: luddites! > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:15:00 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >"Jeff Davis" wrote: >> >>Well, your own example proved the existance of productivity gains - 3 people >>with a machine could produce as much as 10 people without the machine, ergo >>the 3 people are more productive. If you give 9 of those workers the >>machines, and keep 1 around to do maintenance on the machines, the whole group >>is nearly 3x as productive. > >yes, but what if the 7 people who loose their jobs leave town and the town >goes belly up? > >if you measure at the planet level it all probably makes sense, but at a >local level it's not so clear. > >20,000 unemployed textile works in NC who won't ever be retrained may >have a better understanding of this effect... (but only in NC). > >-brad I cannot argue with that. Nor did I say that it was pleasent. I will say that technological change has been responsable for several migrations and those that didn't now commute a distance that took as many as 3-4 days by wagon at one time. The wholesale movement of production from one local to another of far lower employement is older than automation and has always come with a social and economic price that automation alone did not always entail. It's very different to have ones job change then the facility disappear completely. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:08:13 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 10/13/2005 at 9:36 PM Allison wrote: > >>OK I have one so I know what it is. FD55BVR, care to guess? Also a >>FD55BFR? > >Let's see, the BV is a 360K unit with head-load solenoid. The BF has me >stumped. The F would indicate a 720K drive, but if that were so, the B >wouldn't be part of it. FWIW, the "R" is a delimiter and ends the >capacity/special feature field. What follows next is a number, such as >200, that signifies revision, bezel color, etc. A final "U" means the >drive is UL approved. > >Cheers, >Chuck > No, the 55FV has a door latch solinoid as the head load when the door latch is closed. The 55BF is same drive with light beige front, the latch lever is opposite side a different lever shape the led shape is round. Otherwise they are interchangeable. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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Releasing OS/2

by jfoust＠threedee.com

Speaking of Gates, he showed up as guest lecturer at an entry-level CompSci course at UW-Madison this week: http://www.news.wisc.edu/11679.html for MTV's "mtvU" network's "Stand In" series: http://www.mtvu.com/on_mtvu/stand_in/ The other episodes are available on broadband but this one isn't up yet. >From the looks of the picture, I'd say this was a smaller discussion session. It's not the big lecture hall they'd use for a popular freshman course like 302. - John

20 years, 8 months

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Bendix Guidance Computer

by Arno_1983＠gmx.de

Hi everybody! Firstly, if anybody tried contacting me in the last month, please forgive me for being absent. I'm still catching up on my e-mail backlog since I had a math exam on 10th of October that was quite important to prepare for. Next, we've received quite an interesting donation at the University Museum yesterday: what looks like an electromechanical guidance system for a missile. A few photos are on http://www.iser.uni-erlangen.de/anzeigen.php?inventarnummer=I1062 (click on small one for bigger version, click "Weitere Infos" (further information) for two pictures of the innards (front and back)). I'm asking here because we'd like to acquire some background information on this unit, what type of missile it came from and so on. According to its former owner, it was purchased from a scrapper in the mid-70s. A small metal nameplate above the connectors reads: | U.S. | Guidance Computer | G&C | | PART NO.10586600-39 |MOD NO.4 | | SER NO. 614 |WT. 55.75 | | MFD BY THE BENDIX CORP E-P DIV | | CONTR.NO.DA-01-021-AMC-11344 Z | | ARMY MISSILE COMMAND | Below that is a sticker reading "SA PROGRAM" with four boxes, the first one stamped "T2". The small dial between the connectors (two of which are covered with adhesive tape) is an hours run meter with two hands, indicating a run time of 157 hours. Next to that is a sticker with "Pueblo Army Depot" and a large "R" in a box. There is also a material tag of the Bundeswehr (German armed forces) stuck onto one lid. On the inside, there are eight (!!) subassemblies of mechanical calculating gear, as follows: CR/SA DISPLACEMENT MODULE, 2x CR/SA VELOCITY MODULE, 2x PROGRAM GEN. MODULE SR VELOCITY MODULE SR INTEGRATOR MODULE SR DIPLACEMENT MODULE. The last three are linked via gear trains, the first five only have electric I/O. There are lots of Autosyn Transmitters, precision potentiometers, switches, small relays and motors on those! As far as electronics go, we have: SERVO AMPLIFIER MODULE 5x INT MOD & PREAMP MODULE 2x CUTOFF NULL DET. MODULE ROLL ARMING MODULE ELECTRICAL MODULE VOLTAGE MONITORING MODULE. There was no documentation whatsoever with it, so if it is declassified by now (I hope so), any information (or pointer to) is welcome. Yours sincerely, -- Arno Kletzander Stud. Hilfskraft Informatik Sammlung Erlangen www.iser.uni-erlangen.de Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! Satte Provisionen f?r GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner

20 years, 8 months

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MPX-16 census

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

a scholar and a gentleman. I even considered building my own, though not sure if MM made the artwork available. Was put off by the fact that the board has 7 layers according to the article. If anyone is knowledgeable enough of pcb production - is it possible to make a 7 layer board w/o special equipment/materials? Why did it even need 7 layers? How many layers were did the IBM PC mobo have? I know for a fact that the RE robot puter (80188) mobo had 2 sides (top and bottom, no sandwich). --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org <chenmel at earthlink.net> wrote: > On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:29:40 -0700 (PDT) > Chris M <chrism3667 at yahoo.com> wrote: > > > dont have one, but want one. I hope youll make disk > > images available. > > I certainly will. A list member has extended a warm welcome to the idea > of me imaging my disks and putting them on his site. More to follow > when they're all imaged and online. > > > --- cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org > > <chenmel at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > Does anybody else on the list have an MPX-16 system? > > I recently > > > acquired one from a list member and am wondering how > > many of these > > > systems still exist. I have a large (relatively) > > collection of > > > diskettes with mine. > > > > > > The MPX-16, for those not familiar with it, was > > published as a project > > > in Steve Ciarcia's 'Circuit Cellar' column in Byte > > magazine. It was a > > > three part 'construction' article and the machine > > was sold by MicroMint > > > for a time. What I've heard is that about 500 > > machines in total were > > > produced. > > > > > > It's an early 'IBM Compatible' in that they designed > > it to be similar to > > > the PC, but only to a certain degree. It uses a > > serial console rather > > > than keyboard/display adapter, and it runs CP/M-86 > > and supposedly MS-DOS > > > though I don't have DOS diskettes for mine. It has > > ISA slots and a > > > similar architecture to the IBM-PC, coming out of > > that early era before > > > there were PC clones from the likes of Compaq. > > > > > > I'm curious of how many other MPX-16 systems have > > survived to today. > > > There isn't a lot about it online. I can share what > > information I have, > > > as I have manuals and docs with my system. I'm > > interested in hearing > > > from other people with this machine. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > > http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

20 years, 8 months

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Classic hardware tours and KIM-1 repair advice

by pete＠dunnington.plus.com

On Oct 7 2005, 12:51, Hans Franke wrote: > Am 7 Oct 2005 0:09 meinte Pete Turnbull: > > > As some of you know, I'm helping with an exhibition of classic > > machines in the Department of Computer Science -- for Open Day > > tomorrow (Friday), and running conducted tours on Wednesday as well. [ ... ] > > Well, one of the supposedly-working exhibits is my KIM-1, but it > > died this afternoon. > That's unusual, standard procedure is that a machine dies at > the opening day at the first real presentation - no matter > how often you testet before. :-) Well, I *was* demoing it to the organisers and senior staff... Final death toll was one KIM-1, the top 1K of my Commodore PET (one of the early ones with the nasty MOS Technology 6550 RAMs) and a Mac Plus which got rather unhappy midmorning. Probably all fixable in one way or another. "Thank you" to the various people who replied about the KIM. I never had time to look at it again this week, perhaps I'll have a go at the weekend. I did actually know about the site that several of you mentioned, and I also have the schematic and most manuals, just not handy at the time, so I was really just wondering if there was a common failure mode. The suggestion of using small components on the back, out of sight, is an interesting one, though, and the suggestions made about other methods may be helpful too. In other respects the tours for the students were a great success -- and the staff loved them. Some went and fetched their colleagues and came back with them! We had a display of generations of computing from a 1920s mechanical card tabulator through bits of ENIAC (valve), Pegasus (valve), LEO (transistor, well the last version was anyway), and various TTL-based boards (some SSI, some with 74181 MSI ALUs, etc) to LSI/VLSI ending up with an 8008 board (we don't seem to have a 4004 between us, surprisingly -- if anyone would like to donate one for next time, feel free ;-)). We had a display of three generations (densities) of core memory, static and dynamic RAM chips and SIMMS/DIMMS/etc, several generations of EPROMS (oh, and a diode ROM board) and a few chips to see under a fairly powerful binocular microscope. We had a whole range of drives and discs, from RK05 to modern SCSI,including some hard drives running with perspex covers, and all sorts of floppies, stiffies, flopticals and zips, and tapes from paper tape (one of the quiz questions was how much paper tape would it take to store the same data as you'd fit on a 3.5" floppy?) through 1/2" magtape and C10 cassettes to TK50s, DLT-IVs and 200GB LTO Ultrium-IIs. The microcomputer section included an Altair 8800B, some S100 cards, Motorola MK6800D2, KIM-1, Scrumpi (an SC/MP kit), PET (running moonlander), Apple ][ (displaying a rolling demo of digitised pics), a BBC micro running games and with no less than 4 second processors, an untidy heap[1] of "lots of micros from the late 70s and early 80s", an Apple Mac (supposedly running Pagemaker 1.0 but that was the Mac that got ill) with a modified "1984" promo video[2] at the side, an original pristine 5160 PC/XT, an Amiga, and an Acorn Archimedes. [1] the "untidy heap" was to convey the idea of the explosion of micros that appeared around this time, and included -- some with the tops off -- Exidy Sorcerer, Acorn Atom, TRS-80, Sharp MZ80K, Sinclair ZX80, TI99/4, Sinclair ZX81, Jupiter Ace, Sinclair Spectrum, Dragon 32, Vic-20, Acorn Electron, Sinclair Spectrum Plus, Commodore 64, Commodore 128, Sinclair QL, Sony MSX and probably a couple I've forgotten. Altogether, we counted 16 different microprocessors in the display (another pop quiz question the students were supposed to answer). [2] the video is the 2004 version where the runner is wearing an iPod. We wondered (another quiz question: what was the anachronism) how many students would not notice the iPod because they're so common now, but most of them spotted it. What most didn't get without prompting was the question about how that related to the displays on either side -- which were an Acorn ARM Development system and an Archimedes (with an ARM processor). We also asked them what the most common microprocessor is, and a small number thought it was a Pentium (which doesn't even make the top three, actually). The "business and scientific" section covered a longer period, starting with a PDP-8/E (pop quiz: which machine has been through a dishwasher?) with attached ASR33 and which was running the inchworm and basic accumulator test programs, as well as a little routine to punch "HELLO, WORLD!" souveniers on tape (written by one of the staff who'd never seen PDP-8 code before, so he was dead pleased when it worked). Then we had an 11/40 opened up to the gaze of the onlookers (plus the "Ken and Den" photo at the side) and boards from an 11/03, 11/23, and 11/73, followed by a microVAX-II (no room for an 11/780, alas). The final item in that row was a 20-year-old working 11/53 system running an exam marking system under RSX-11M, with a mark-sense reader -- which booted first time and ran without problem all week, demonstrating -- as we hoped and expected -- that things were built to be reliable in those days. The other side of that aisle was mostly RISC-based machines, starting with an early Sparcstation, then the first microSPARC, a Mac Classic (last 68K Mac, first under 1000UKP), then Indigo, Indy and O2 SGI workstations (what machine do you see in Jurassic Park?) running assorted demos and finally a modern mid-range dual-processor Sun server. Note the complete absence of Wintel PCs (apart from the 5160) :-) We managed to relegate them to a corner table of their own, but we did have a full range of motherboards from XT (couldn't find a 5150 in time), through AT, 386, 486, assorted Pentium and AMDs to a big dual-core machine that will finally be put into service on Friday. The last section was sort of unusual odds and ends -- a piece of one of the Crays the Meteorological Office used to use for forecasting, some transputer boards from a Meganode and a Paramid system, a Presence-II neural net processor board (a PCI card designed and built by the Advanced Computer Architectures group at the University), one module >from my Origin 2000 "supercomputer" with some superfluous Craylinks to make more lights flash, an Origin 200, and some FPGA stuff from CompSci. We also had some pieces of Elliot 803 and English Electric KDF9 along with someone who had actually worked on these systems, and could talk enthusiastically about the novel and innovative aspects of their architectures, but sadly he got called away mid-morning. We all had an interesting and enjoyable day, though some of us are a bit hoarse from running sixteen tour groups through our parts of the exhibition! One of the technicians took lots of photos so I'll see if I can pick some out when I get a set and put them up online somewhere. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 8 months

2
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Old (1980s) Computer Giveaway, UK, North West

by chris.shallcross＠gmail.com

Hello, This seems to be the better of the two lists to put this, so here goes. Recently we've had a bit of a clearout at the company where I work. As it's a SW house from the early 80s we've unearthed all sorts of kit in the cellars. As I know people collect and use old computers I've gained a "stay of execution" for the old computer kit while I try to find a better home than a disposal site. If anyone can give a good home to any of the items in the following list please get in touch with me. Conditions: * All equipment is unwarranted. I don't know if any of it actually works. I can try to find out, but I can't guarantee anything. * Shipping not included. This isn't a for-profit exercise, but I can't run a for-loss exercise either - I don't think the powers that be would like that. * If you want to make a donation it'll be most welcome. In short, pay the shipping and I'll get it to you - carrier of your choice so long as they'll pick up from here. I don't know if any of it works, but I can try plugging it in and see what happens. It's all UK-spec, so if it's shipped elsewhere I don't know if it will work on your mains power, etc. If you want to cover the cost, I'll ship it to just about anywhere. List as follows: 1x Apricot F10 (whirrs, beeps and flashes lights when plugged in) 1x Apricot 5.25 drive, model no XN525F 1x Apricot Monitor, model no 12HM 1x Maxi 150MB tape drive (it's as big as a modern thin desktop and weighs as much, no media) 1x Tandon 286/N 1x Peanut PC2000 (this looks pretty old) 1x Northstar 100 (early 80s server, pretty big), and keyboard 1x Hasler telex, model no TU/014/10 4x Signet 3 boxes 1x Signet PC? (it looks like a PC, only it's dated Jun 1982) 1x Ampex ATL Model 210 + keyboard 1x Victor V286 1x Unisys <something> 5059 There's a fair amount of 386/486/pentium 1 + 2 class stuff, old CRTs (working). We're based in Blackburn, UK. If you have any questions feel free to contact me and I'll try to answer them as best as I can. I hope someone can give at least some of this a home - it seems a real shame to let it all go. Regards, Chris Shallcross my.name at gmail.com

20 years, 8 months

3
2
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Looking for ancient FreeBSD

by vp＠cs.drexel.edu

> This is almost Classic - I'm looking for a place to download an old > version of FreeBSD, specifically the last release of the 2.2.x branch, > which I think was 2.2.8. Hey, don't call it classic, I use 2.2.7 on a file server at home! :-) When the FreeBSD team moved on to 3.0 I thought they left the "true path" - too many changes to the BSD core. Eventually I switched to OpenBSD, but this one has also changed too much recently. > http://ftp.csie.chu.edu.tw/FreeBSD/ISO-IMAGES-i386/ FreeBSD-2/2/8-mini.iso: 140Mb distribution! That's more like it! I bet it also contains the source. **vp

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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Need some help with TRS-80 research

by news＠computercollector.com

I'm doing some homework about the TRS-80. This is for a follow-up to the article I published on Aug. 8, "The controversial birth of the TRS-80". http://www.snarc.net/c-trs80.htm What I'm looking for now is ANY information about a company called "Microcomputer Techniques". Any help is appreciated. - Evan ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:20:23 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > > >> you might be right by coincidence. However the second letter and third are >> for options to the basic drive such as door latch or media ready indicator. > >The third letter, sure. But I thought single speed/density drives had >just 2 letters (type and options), dual speed/dual density drives had 3. >I've certainly seen HFR (or some other 3 letter combination starting with >'HD') for 3.5" drives capable of 720K and 1.44M. OK I have one so I know what it is. FD55BVR, care to guess? Also a FD55BFR? Hint neither are dual speed. Allison

20 years, 8 months

2
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Spotted at local surplus (STL) - IBM, SGI

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

Been so busy with work, finally took some "me time" and went to the local scrapper/junkyard/surplus place and noticed these items there: SGI Impact Indigo II (probably about six of them) SGI Indy R5000 (probably about six of them) IBM 3480 If someone has interest, let me know. Jay

20 years, 8 months

2
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Luddite...aren't we all a bunch of Techno-Luddites

by cmurray＠eagle.ca

A techno-luddite? How apropos! I like to question what technology gives us. Old computers or new. They can challenge us but that's as far as I care to go. Murray--

20 years, 8 months

1
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luddites!

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: luddites! > From: Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:14:52 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >>>After all, aren't we all a bunch of Techno-Ludites :^) > >i haven't wasted any bandwidth *all day* so, > >I'd like to point out that the Ludites where not anti-technology. > >They were anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology. They didn't think it >was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just >because a new machine was installed... > >(and, I think they had a point. I think economists are all smoking >really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains') > >-brad What wasnt noticed by the displaced employees was the 7 that got bumpped went to making more machines, fixing them, selling them teaching those three left behind how to run them. Just a different view. With 35 years of high tech I've seen a few cycles and even displaced a few times. Allison

20 years, 8 months

1
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Public Service Announcement: AVOID "bobsbid1"

by zmerch＠30below.com

Rumor has it that 9000 VAX may have mentioned these words: >I am not familiar with those new ATX style power supplies, Not ATX... think "laptop." There are some mini-ITX motherboards that use laptop-type power supplies - external, 1 or *maybe* 2 voltages on the pins, and an external LED to actually show if the sucker's got power & working. That is the dark LED that tells Sellam the PS (and in this case, PoS) is no worky. Very handy if you want a small, very quiet, yet somewhat powerful PC. Somewhat in this case means: Laptop < mini-ITX < Desktop PC I'm looking at one to build a new TiVo out of. JDR's got a decent deal on a VIA (think: "Used to been Cyrix") 1GHz box for <$300. Quiet is good when you want to watch TV. ;-) Laterz, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers _??_ zmerch at 30below.com (?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead _)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.

20 years, 8 months

1
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Intel 80C186/80C188 Evaluation Board? Re: Single Board Computers

by chrism3667＠yahoo.com

>Can't help with the evaluation board, but the mention >of the 80186 reminds me of a system I worked on >(Durango Poppy) using one (an added 80286 was an >option if you wanted to run Unix). Interesting. Wish there was some info on that. >It's a great chip for its time with DMA done the >right way and lots of I/O pins. Unfortunately, any >programs that play with PC hardware are doomed to >failure. Right. Those aspects of typical pc hardware that had been integrated on the chip. Seemingly though, the Tandy 2000 ignored at least some of the extra facilities of the 80186 and simply utilized it as a fast 8086. That board has one of the highest chip counts I've ever seen. But it's also true that video and much else was integrated. >I've got a little FAX receiver box that was designed >to fit between a printer and a PC and would either >print FAXen as received or store them on a DOS->formatted 1.44MB floppy drive that was part of the >unit. It uses an 80C188 and I recall looking at the >27C256 BIOS and noting that it implemented many of >the PC BIOS calls, particularly those for diskette >I/O. It has 256K of RAM. The thing isn't much >bigger than a floppy drive and is powered by a wall >wart. It'd make a neat little CP/M-86 system if I >ever got around to programming it. I'd guess the bios was bought, or at least parts of it, from a supplier of such (AMI, Phoenix...). >But this brings up a question--how many early non-PC >PC's are there wandering around? IOW, things that >have the ability to run a full operating system, but >aren't PC's per se. My DSL model is certainly one-->runs Linux (just telnet to it and you get a login). I opened up a color IBM terminal years ago, mainly because I wanted to see if the monitor could be utilized as a vga (apparently had analog inputs, and only r,g,b, and sync lines). Phor phun. 3179 is the # sticking in my head, which might correspond to the model number. But then again it might not. I never actually bothered, but upon cursory observation of the logic board - 8088 based - I was amazed how much "pc stuph" was present. In other words most of the makings of a pc/xt motherboard were present as I recall. Of course there were no provision for disk drives and whatnot, and may not even have had a bios as we know it. I'd like to get another one. BYTE tried to deal with a similar issue issue years ago ~'85 in one of their special issues. They wanted a baseline for IBM compatibility. As loopy as it sounds, the Zenith Z-100 was elected a basis by which all others were compared. Funny that an incompatible was used to judge all the other compatibles. >I'm not sure if that counts, though. It may well not >be running Linux >on anything that you would recognise as PC hardware. >It might not have >a BIOS as such, even. Someone told me that MINIX didn't deal with the bios at all. What about Linux? >How about a TIVO or an MP3 player? Certainly most >video game boxes have the necessary resources (I seem >to recall a web site dedicated to getting early >Xboxes running Linux--it wasn't as simply as you'd >think). No, but they figured out a way of doing it w/o cracking the box. There was a couple of games with bugs that upon crashing (intentionally) made a back door available. You need some sort of usb device (a thumb drive was often utilized). Blah blah blah. I'm going there one of these days. I'm just hoping the release of the 360 brings down the price of the original ;). I wrinkled my nose when I found out a sort of special distro was needed, but I guess the hardware differed, however slightly, enough from a vanilla pc to warrant it. There's a kewell book called "Hacking the Xbox" that goes into different aspects of reverse engineering. Doesn't deal with installing Linux too much though. The TIVO's I looked at didn't use intel procs. I want to say PowerPC, but it might even be different from that. And I don't think any (other) game consoles used an 80x86. The Genesis used the 68000 I know. Show me wrong if I'm wrong. __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

20 years, 8 months

5
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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:07:28 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >> >> >F : 80 cylinder double sided >> >> >> >> 300 rpm only >> >> >> >> >G : 80 cylinder double sided, 360RPM, high density (1.2M for PCs) >> >> >> >> Does both 300 and 360. (can replace the E and F with correct jumpers). >> > >> >I am not convinced of that. I think 'G' implies 360RM. The drive in >> >question is a 'GFR', thus having the capabilites of both the 'G' and the >> >'F', in other words both 360 and 300 rpm. >> >> I am certain of the GFR, I have maybe 8 spares and 5 in use to confirm it > >I am also certain about the GFR. I agree with you. The GFR is a dual >speed drive, 360 rpm and 300rpm. > >What I am saying is that the letter 'G' as a suffix indicates a 360rpm >drive. The letter 'F' indicates a 300 rpm drive (both being 80 cylinder >double-sided). So both G and F mean a dual speed drive. No Tony, the 55F in single speed only. Now if you mean 55GF is dual speed you might be right by coincidence. However the second letter and third are for options to the basic drive such as door latch or media ready indicator. Allison

20 years, 8 months

2
1
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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: Alexey Toptygin <alexeyt at freeshell.org> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:39:22 +0000 (UTC) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Wed, 12 Oct 2005, Allison wrote: > >> Another good choice is the 4" tall Dell Pizza boxes such as the 425/np >> though 466/np. Theses are small, use PS2 connectors for keyboard >> and mouse and the board supports most floppies (x2), IDE disks to 500mb >> and S3 VGA video. There is room enough to add a CDrom or 5.25 floppy. > >I have 2 of these, and they're quite nice. You can run 25, 50, 33 and 60 >MHz chips in them with the right rejumpering (so my 425s are running 66Mhz >now). I have done the same thing with 425s. all mine are DX/66. >Dell even had the motherboard docs online, last I checked. There's >only one problem: the BIOS won't boot off any non-FAT formatted floppies, Mine do! There is a bios selection for that. The bios in these either boots the floppy or hard disk but doesn't switch well if HD is selected. Cdroms work well in them too. >though it's happy to boot anything off the HD. This makes putting a >'modern' OS (linux, in my case) on them a bit of a challenge. I've stuffed >one full of ne2k, intel and 3com cards and use it as a firewall. I've run DOS, win3.1, Linux, Win95b, Nt4/server on these with 32m of ram. Not super fast with a 486/66 as there is no external cache but remarkably solid. Drives larger than 500mb must have a 500mb primary boot partition but I have the NT4 system using a 4.3gb as NT4 fits easily in 500mb and handles the remaining partition after boot as "d:". Allison

20 years, 8 months

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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: Dan Williams <williams.dan at gmail.com> > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:17:32 +0100 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> Dan, I don't think I've ever seen a 5.25" PCMCIA drive. Do they exist? There's actually not a huge amount of difference between the PCMCIA bus and ISA. IIRC, you can get PCMCIA-PC104 adapters and PC104 is very close to ISA. >> >> Cheers, >> Chuck >> >These guys made one ten years ago, there might be some around. > >http://www.accurite.com/PR-PC.html > >Dan On the whole I prefer my solution. A simple 486/66 on a board that doesnt have any "chip set" and ISA cards that are easy to find in junkers. Convenient, you bet. The board board I selected uses PS2 keyboard and mouse. I have two spare boards and the nicads have been removed to prevent leakage. Thse have done well for floppy futzing from any 5.25 to any 3.5" (excluding the near unseen 2.88). Another good choice is the 4" tall Dell Pizza boxes such as the 425/np though 466/np. Theses are small, use PS2 connectors for keyboard and mouse and the board supports most floppies (x2), IDE disks to 500mb and S3 VGA video. There is room enough to add a CDrom or 5.25 floppy. A third candidate just a shade larger than the Dell pizza boxes is a AT&T Golbalist 620. That's a P100 box with three ISA or PCI slots, mouse, and keyboard are PS2, video is VGA and room for a IDE disk, CDrom and a 3.5 floppy inside. Beats wailing ones head against the wall with trying to retrofit current solutions. Also solves the how to reuse older hardware that exists for free. Allison

20 years, 8 months

4
3
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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by tim＠tim-mann.org

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 03:25:49 -0500 (CDT), cctech-request at classiccmp.org wrote: > Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:51:09 -0700 > From: jim stephens <james.w.stephens at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: TEAC FD-55GFR = Quad Density? > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" > <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > Message-ID: > <ae0bc2000510072151o541c0ad3u8dbc114f37216beb at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > <snip> > > > > > > <snip> > > Actually, I am still slowly getting over my long painful struggle to get > > two floppy drives enabled on a Dell Optiplex system. There's support > > for a second floppy in the BIOS but it appears the hardware support is > > entirely missing. I had to just do away with the 3-1/2" disk to get a > > 5-1/4" disk installed in one of my (many, since I get them for < $5 all > > kitted out with Pentium III processors) beloved (!!??!!) Optiplex boxes. > > Was there THAT much savings in not including hardware support for two > > floppies, DELL? Why not patch settings for the second drive out of the > > BIOS so we don't pound our heads against the wall trying?? > > > > I'm curious about the comment about second drive support missing. I > am curious why the addition of a proper multiheaded cable doesnt > fix this? > > they actually dont drive the drive select in the cable? I built a new machine around an EPoX 9NPA nForce 4 motherboard and found out to my surprise that it was only capable of running one floppy drive. In my case the BIOS provides no way to enable a second drive, so at least it's consistent. Having a BIOS that lets you put in settings for a second drive when the hardware doesn't support it would really be a screwup. EPoX makes schematics available, so I downloaded one and studied it to try to confirm whether there really was no way to get a second drive to work. It turns out the super-IO chip they use to run the floppies and several other system functions (fan control, temperature sensors, serial and parallel ports, etc.) has only a limited number of pins. Several have multiple functions, and the motherboard designer has to select which function he wants to use for each pin and do without the others. EPoX chose to use the pins that could have driven the second floppy's motor-on and drive select for other functions (I forget what offhand). So those pins are no-connects on the floppy cable. As a small compensation, it's possible to reconfigure the parallel port as an external floppy connector. If you do that, you can put two drives on it. (Whoopee.) This all is not a huge deal for me since I can pop a Catweasel card into the machine if I really want more floppies in it, but it's a bit annoying. -- Tim Mann tim at tim-mann.org http://tim-mann.org/

20 years, 8 months

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A few items for sale

by Gary.Messick＠ngc.com

> > > Some of these items may interest folks. > > > > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjcwren > > Or Not? > > How about a clue as to what they are before making us go and look... > One of the items is a pretty nice collection of early 8-bit computers w/software. I do have to point out that his "Z-100" is an H/Z-89/90 Z-80 system though! For pick-up only near Atlanta

20 years, 8 months

1
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So I been looking for an 8 inch floppy drive...

by tlindner＠ix.netcom.com

But it needs to be double sided. Does anyone know if this is a double sided floppy drive: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8708388143&ssPageName =ADME:B:SS:US:1 I have about 150 8 inch disks to image and I am also hoping someone can help me wire such a drive to a catweasel. -- tim lindner tlindner at ix.netcom.com Bright

20 years, 8 months

2
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Need a driver: Intel PCMCIA Flash card

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

Type I cards are thinner than Type II which are thinner than Type III. If you look at at Type II card, you will notice that it is thinner on three sides than in the middle. The thin part, which acts as the card guide, retains the Type I size specifications. Thus, you can use a Type I card in a Type II slot. The types should not be confused with the PCMCIA electrical standards, which used a different (arabic) numbering system. Most "current" PCMCIA cards (such as an XJack modem or 3Com network card) are Type II and PCMCIA 2.0. Type I came out first, so many SRAM cards are Type I. For example, the first Poqet SRAM cards are Type I in size, but used a pre-PCMCIA 1.0 protocol. Later Poqets were PCMCIA 1.0 compliant. The HPLX 95 palmtop is PCMCIA 1.0 compliant (IIRC) and can read either Type I or Type II SRAM cards, but needs a driver for using Flash cards -- it came out a little later than the Poqet and is more compliant with the early PCMCIA standards. Windows through Win 98 can handle SRAM cards with a couple of device drivers (CARDDRV.SYS is one) installed. I forget the exact drivers needed, but just search in the Windows Help for SRAM to find the information. Win XP seems to have dropped support for SRAM cards. At least some Intel flash cards used a different format than other flash cards, such as SunDisk/SanDisk, so the two types are not compatible. Bob Message: 18 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:24:36 -0400 From: Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> Subject: Re: Need a driver: Intel PCMCIA Flash card To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Message-ID: <434DA944.30707 at gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Ethan Dicks wrote: >On 10/12/05, Simon Fryer <fryers at gmail.com> wrote: > >>I am guessing, by looking at the size of the card, this is a Type II >>card. Most PCMCIA card readers fitted to laptops and PCs will only >>read Type III PCMCIA memory cards. > > >Perhaps you have an off-by-one error? > >Most recent laptops only have a single Type II slot, but many Pentium >laptops have a "dual Type II/Type III socket" meaning you can use two >Type II cards simultaneously or one Type III (the thickness of the >card blocks the upper slot) > >Type I cards were strange and most semi-modern stuff doesn't support >them, AFAIK. But aren't most of those Intel Series 2b cards Type I? I mean the ones that hold IOS images in slightly older Ciscos. As far as I can tell, they're just a bit thinner than your average ethernet/wireless/etc card. Peace... Sridhar

20 years, 8 months

1
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Looking for ancient FreeBSD

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

The oldest set I have is 2.2.6 the 4cd set. It's solid enough and useful that I never tried later. I keep the set as my backup case the system needs a new drive. Allison > >Subject: Re: Looking for ancient FreeBSD > From: William Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:35:47 -0400 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I've got a set back to 1.0.2 if anyone needs it... IIRC I also rolled >out a 1.1.5.1 or was it 1.5.1 set just before the mandatory move to 2.0 >and the removal of the AT&T embargo'd files. > >Bill > >Jay West wrote: > >> if you can't find it... I'm sure I have the cd here somewhere. I think >> I have a complete set of freebsd distro cd's back to 2.0. >> >> Jay >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Sokolov" >> <msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG> >> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:37 PM >> Subject: Looking for ancient FreeBSD >> >> >>> Hello fellow ClassicCmp'ers, >>> >>> This is almost Classic - I'm looking for a place to download an old >>> version of FreeBSD, specifically the last release of the 2.2.x branch, >>> which I think was 2.2.8. However, it seems to have totally vanished off >>> the net, including of course ftp.FreeBSD.ORG, apparently removed by the >>> dark forces of the evil reptilian conspiracy who want to force everyone >>> to run the modern crap. Has anyone saved a copy of the FreeBSD 2.2.8 >>> distribution or some nearby version? TIA, >>> >>> MS >>> >> >>

20 years, 8 months

1
0
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PC Collection on eBay

by john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org

He also appears to be full of B.S. as he claims he packed everything meticulously in anticipation of long term storage. No freaking way. The picture alone shows that he just threw stuff in there and did not box a lot of the important stuff (as you can see several computer items jumbled up in the mess out in the open and a bike that's obviously shoved into the mess. I don't know if anything is salvageable from the pile outside of using them as props and displays. =/ Would be nice if at least a few things worked well and were valuable enough to make it worth taking the rest of the mountain that didn't work. -John Boffemmyer IV At 06:23 AM 10/13/2005, you wrote: >I sent a message asking to go look next week if possible. We will see what >they say. It doesn't seem anyone I know. > >Paxton > > >-- >Paxton Hoag >Astoria, OR >USA > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 10/12/2005 > > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 10/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.14/131 - Release Date: 10/12/2005

20 years, 8 months

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Original PDP-8 spares

by prbotha＠hotmail.com

As promised, here's the list: 1 x Faceplace w/ circuit board & functional toggle switches. Unfortunately no key. 42 x double-width logic boards 93 x single-width logic boards 6 x ribbon cables w/ connectors 1 x Ferroxcube core module complete w/ connectors 2 x Marginal Power strips 2 x Wired backplanes 3 x nameplates (one bent, one nicked, one perfect) >From the nameplates it seems to have had a serial number in the late 700's. I would appreciate some advice as to how I should go about selling this. Obviously eBay would command the greatest exposure in terms of interested parties, but I would really like it to go to somebody who will really be able to restore it (or maybe who needs spares to complete an existing one). Any suggestions ? Many thanks ! Pieter Botha ============================ _________________________________________________________________ Upgrade to MSN Hotmail Plus - your e-mail, your way! http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-xe&DI=1054&XAPID=1816

20 years, 8 months

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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:39:21 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> >The _drive_ is HD, I am not sure what the controller can do, though. The >> >suffix letters of Teac drive numbers seem to indicate the specs as >> >follows : >> > >> >A : 40 cylinder single-sided >> >B : 40 cyclinder double sided >> >C : 77 cylinder single sided (??? I have never seen this) >> >D : 77 cylinder double sided (??? or this) >> >E : 80 cylinder single sided >> >F : 80 cylinder double sided >> >> 300 rpm only >> >> >G : 80 cylinder double sided, 360RPM, high density (1.2M for PCs) >> >> Does both 300 and 360. (can replace the E and F with correct jumpers). > >I am not convinced of that. I think 'G' implies 360RM. The drive in >question is a 'GFR', thus having the capabilites of both the 'G' and the >'F', in other words both 360 and 300 rpm. I am certain of the GFR, I have maybe 8 spares and 5 in use to confirm it with. Dec use that drive in the VAXMATE at 1.2mb and as RX33 in uPDP-11 at 400/800KB (low speed) units I've used for both are exact same units. one oddity of the FD55GFR series is I have at least 5 different PC board patterns that function the same, they are of different date codes. I have also used them in my S100 system for the infrequent DSQD 780kb CP/M format that is compatable with my Kaypro 4/84 with Advent turborom. I also have a supply of FD55B, E and F series drives as spares and in use My three Visual 1050s have the FD55E in them. My knowledge is first hand. Read the data for that drive and you will see that FD55GFR is a DUAL speed drive. >> >H : 80 cylinder double sided, 300RPM, high density (1.44M for PCs) >> >> Never seen an FD55H. > >No, but the same suffix letters are used on 3.5" drives too. I would have guessed it was 3.5" too. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 17:18:42 +0100 (BST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >> I'm sitting here looking at a TEAC FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive with a >> TEAC-branded SCSI daughterboard mounted on it. Picked this thing up for a >> buck at a flea market and don't know much about it. Anyone else familiar >> with it? I'm not even sure if this is a HD drive. > >The _drive_ is HD, I am not sure what the controller can do, though. The >suffix letters of Teac drive numbers seem to indicate the specs as >follows : > >A : 40 cylinder single-sided >B : 40 cyclinder double sided >C : 77 cylinder single sided (??? I have never seen this) >D : 77 cylinder double sided (??? or this) >E : 80 cylinder single sided >F : 80 cylinder double sided 300 rpm only >G : 80 cylinder double sided, 360RPM, high density (1.2M for PCs) Does both 300 and 360. (can replace the E and F with correct jumpers). >H : 80 cylinder double sided, 300RPM, high density (1.44M for PCs) Never seen an FD55H. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: Scott Stevens <chenmel at earthlink.net> > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:39:30 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 08:06:10 -0400 >Allison <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> wrote: > >> >> On the whole I prefer my solution. A simple 486/66 on a board that >> doesnt have any "chip set" and ISA cards that are easy to find in >> junkers. Convenient, you bet. The board board I selected uses PS2 >> keyboard and mouse. I have two spare boards and the nicads have been >> removed to prevent leakage. Thse have done well for floppy futzing >> from any 5.25 to any 3.5" (excluding the near unseen 2.88). >> > >I don't know that I've ever seen a 486 motherboard that didn't use a >'chipset.' The ASIC >'chipset' motherboards came in the late 286/early 386 era. The big >'Full AT footprint' '286 motherboards don't use a 'chipset' but rather >lots and lots of TTL gates and standard Intel 8xxx LSI chips. I differentiated ASIC glue from the other types of chipsets that are programable like the PCI bridges and resident FDC/IDE/Serial/parallel. Ever try to get W9x to run on a PCI machine without the correct PCI bridge driver? It's painful. For example the 486slc/33 mb I have in fornt of me is one of those small footprint styles (6.75x8.75") with 5 ISA-16 slots and four 30pin simm slots. There is an asic on that that really only glues the 486slc to the bus and contains the 8237 DMA not any of the other LSI (5818 RTC/Cmos and 8242 keyboard) functions. For it's size the board is mostly connectors! >Tony can probably add a few comments about the switch from 'regular >logic' PeeCee motherboards to 'chipset' based ones, as he seems to be >running a 'processor upgraded' IBM AT system specifically to avoid >'black box' ASIC-base motherboards. No doubt. But I hope he reflects on my use of chipset adverse to ASIC. >I definitely don't have any 'current solution' hardware here that I am >wailing about not being able to use. My Dell systems are >first-generation 100MHz bus Pentium III systems, which makes them >'rather old' in current terms. Today somebody at work gave me an 'old' >machine out of his car from home that he didn't want anymore. Said 'you >can probably salvage something out of it.' Then he dropped the comment >that it probably has an 800 MHz process. Uh... That 800mhz machine and definatly the PIII are way faster than anything I have. The main PC here for most on line cruft is a P166mmx from around 1998 an asus board. >I agree about the usefulness of keeping around some 'plain old' legacy >systems from the '486 or early Pentium era. I've always kept boxes like >that around for things like the machine at the bench that programs >EPROMS (my EPROM programmer is one of those Needham PB-10 ISA card >programmers (it will last FOREVER since the most 'proprietary' parts on >it are two 6821 PIAs) One of those 486s has the BGLA logic analyser in it. Handy 16channel thing. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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Archival storage

by mtapley＠swri.edu

At 16:03 -0500 10/10/05, Fred wrote: >Message: 27 >Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:45:02 -0700 (PDT) >From: Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> >Subject: Re: Archival storage >... >How much would it cost to move Sellam's collection >to the dark side of the moon? </Pedant> ...and keep moving it every 2 weeks, as the _dark_ side of the Moon moved around to the other side of the Moon (even if it was on the _far_ side)? Better to use those craters around the lunar North Pole. If Sellam's collection didn't fill them up... </Normal> If I'm gonna be a smart-ass, I *really* should be caught up, shouldn't I? Sorry... -- - Mark 210-522-6025, temporary cell 240-375-2995

20 years, 8 months

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ISA and derivitive non-PCs (was PCs that support only one floppy drive in H/W)

by compoobah＠valleyimplants.com

In the almost-UNIX front, Apollo workstations were ISA based. SGI Indigo2 and some HP-9000 PA-RISC desktops run EISA, with the unrealized hope (same as PCI, really) that more hardware would work with them. Few companies wrote drivers, though

20 years, 8 months

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Looking for ancient FreeBSD

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> wrote: > just curious, do any of these fit the bill? > > http://ftp.csie.chu.edu.tw/FreeBSD/ISO-IMAGES-i386/ Thanks! When I get a chance to download and burn that ISO image, I'll know whether it fits the bill. :-) MS

20 years, 8 months

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Looking for ancient FreeBSD

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

e.stiebler <emu at ecubics.com> wrote: > I know it is evil too, but did you try to check it out from the CVS ? That would give me just the source and not an installable distribution. I actually want to install it on a pee sea. MS

20 years, 8 months

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Restoring broken plastic

by cclist＠sydex.com

I'm looking at a couple of old tape drives that have severe front panel damage. Parts of each are broken off into many small pieces. I don't know what polymer was used, but it does seem to use a large amount of filler in proportion to resin (i.e., there's not much strength to this stuff--it doesn't break with a sharp "snap", but seems to fracture like a damp cracker). What adhesive is recommended for repairing these items? Cyanoacrylate (super glue)? Polyurethane (Pro bond)? Something else? A solvent cement is out of the question, I think. Would reinforcement wtih glass cloth be an option to strengthen things? Suggestions are most welcome. Cheers, Chuck

20 years, 8 months

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PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: PCs that support only one floppy drive in hardware > From: "Nico de Jong" <nico at FARUMDATA.DK> > Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:44:31 +0200 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >----- Oprindelig meddelelse ----- >Fra: "Steven N. Hirsch" <shirsch at adelphia.net> >> >> I'm sitting here looking at a TEAC FD-55GFR 5.25" floppy drive with a >> TEAC-branded SCSI daughterboard mounted on it. Picked this thing up for a >> buck at a flea market and don't know much about it. Anyone else familiar >> with it? I'm not even sure if this is a HD drive. >> >GFR is the 1.2M (HD) drive >Nico That is way to terse an answer. The board _may_ have been a comonent in a DEC system (microVAX3100 series) as an RX33 drive via SCSI. The FD55GFR Floppy disk drive is a 5.25 dual speed, two sided drive capable of PC 1.2mb mode as well as operation at all lower density 96tpi modes and if double stepped will reliabily read 48tpi formats both single and double sided. This type drive in the nonPC world was also called DSQD(Double Sided Quad Density for up to 800kb) or DSHD (Double Sided High Density for up to 1.2b) While used in PC based system it also appeared in Digital in both their VAXmate, DECmateIII, PDP-11 and microVAX (3100 series) systems as RX33. Somebody should archive that. Allison

20 years, 8 months

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OT && !OT Apple Warning

by dogas＠bellsouth.net

Its been PowerPC season down here. First, found and have been playing AIX on that IBM RS/6000 520, and then a couple of more recent Macs appeared, a sweet 700mhz g4 imac lamp/flatpanel model with OSX Jaguar CDs for almost nothing. Been enjoying OSX. too Then the other day I got a 350mhz slot-loading g3 all-in one imac. OS 9.1 was screwed up a little and the CDROM drive wasnt working, just spitting CDs back out. Big pause too on startup. I finally got OS 9.0 to boot and reinstall from an attached USB cdrom. And then I figured what the hell, and proceeded to install OSX/Jag on the g3... WARNING! Don't do that without updating the computer's firmware first! Too late for me. It highly screwed up the computer (pram/analog video settings/black screened) http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=06973 ...has a good article on it, but I'm trying something different... The logic board on the G3 doesn't have the VGA connector, but I have a junk imac logic board with the VGA port.. It was a good enough excuse to break out the blow torch and tonight I'll solder it onto my 350mhz board, hoping to get maybe at least get the 'alternate' video instead of just the imac's "Black Screen of Death" OS9.0 might still be in there but I think I still need a OS 9.2.2 CD (or a dmg) too and some way to genate a bootable HD with new firmware, externally. Anyone want to trade and get a nice MAC 0S 7.0 floppy package for a 9.2.2 CD? (open to other trades too) I've got the g4 imac and a beige g3 somewhere still, I hope, to work on the imac's HD if needed, but I sure could use some apple help. I bet many of us here will begin seeing some of these newer macs in our searches for the older stuff, watch out.... UPDATE FIRMWARE BEFORE INSTALLING OSX Dammit, I'm still mad that Apple's OS install can so f$&&ht up their own semi-current machine... Apple should never again be able to bitch about anything Microsoft... ;) - Mike: dogas at bellsouth.net

20 years, 8 months

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test-drb October 2005