October 2005 - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

by dwight＠ca2h0430.amd.com

>From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> > >The 279X is a more integrated 1793 so thats a good choice too. Hi From scratch, I'd pefer the 2793. There is another option, get a FDC card from an old XT level PC. I did this for may NC4000 machine. It is not anything like a x86 machine. Of course, I could only do 360K disk without modifications to the clock speeds. I don't recall which chip it used but it seem like I remember it being one of the 179X parts. I did all the interface as direct CPU controlled without DMA but then, the NC4000 is one fast processor. Dwight

20 years, 7 months

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Does anyone have a Radio Shack Electronics Learning Lab?

by John.Miramonti＠attglobal.net

Hi, I was your email regarding the Radio Shack Electronic LearningLab. I picked one up for my daughter, but it came without the manuals. I'm trying to get a copy. You mentioned "...The PDF file on the RS web site doesn't list things in enough detail.". I've been trying to download the PDF manual, but the upgraded web site apparently doesn't have it. Could you email me a copy? Or could I arrange to get a copy of your manuals? I could trade you a detailed list of components, with part numbers, catalog numbers, etc. Thanks, John Miramonti John.Miramonti at attglobal.net

20 years, 7 months

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SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST

by recycler＠swbell.net

SET CLASSICCMP MAIL DIGEST -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

20 years, 7 months

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http://cgi.ebay.com/RCA-TC-1206-Video-Monitor-5-25_W0QQitemZ7555

by jpero＠sympatico.ca

RCA TC 1206 Video Monitor 5.25" still $ 10 bid. Sorry I had didn't had a chance to post this in advance! Cheers, Wizard

20 years, 7 months

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Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... > From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:35 +0100 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >OK, I'm wanting to build a board with an 8 bit CPU (probably Z80, >possibly 6502) and a floppy controller IC on board with the intention of >hanging it off my PC (via serial or parallel, undecided yet) and >allowing me to read and write *most* formats from various 1980's 8 bit >micros... > >Intel's 8271 looks like a possibility at the moment, but I thought I'd >poll the list for alternative ideas too. FM support is of course >critical - MFM is less of an issue as the host PC can handle that. ick poo.. The 8271 was not widely used especially on 8bitters. If your serious then 1793 that was common as house flies and does most all soft formats. Actually with the exception of the GCR and hardsector formats that one chip is a good start. GCR (apple) is all software and a trivial amount of hardware (no special chip). Other hard formats have the problem of being unique to themselves (NS* hard is not like Heath hard) though it's possible to create copies of each of those as well. >I've never built any kind of computer from scratch, so it'll be a useful >experience. I figure on putting just enough code in ROM to support >downloading of actual firmware to the device over whatever the link is >to the PC, as that should save a lot of headache! > >Hopefully RAM requirements will be low enough that I can go the SRAM >route and avoid messing around with DRAM refresh (although IIRC the Z80 >has much of the necessary stuff built in...) Seriously 32kbyte static ram chips are easy to get (JDR and other have them) and EEprom (small is 2k and 8k are easy to find). Another way to do this is a small S100 bus with 16k of ram, a rom card Z80 cpu card and a serial board with one each of: NS* MDSA-4(a common hard sector that one does SD and DD) Tarbel 1771 based card (SD and really off 1771 specific formats) CCS 1793 based soft sector card. (most all softsector formats) Compupro 765 based card (why not!) In 7 commonly found S100 cards you cover 90+% of all floppies. The rest is software. If you stick to static parts and 6502 or Z80 the whole thing should be simple. Parallel port (bidirectional) will be faster but serial is easier though slower. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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FPGA VAX update

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Ken Seefried <ken at seefried.com> wrote: > From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> > > I think I have the documentation for the microcode for > > the different engines, and I also have the binary microcode > > files... > > Do you have the microcode files for the 11/730? Might still have the TU58 tapes around, yes. No TU58 drive to read them, though. > The Am2901 VHDL (and other formats) is freely availible and well > understood and fits several to an FPGA (even small ones covered by free > tools). The rest of the logic on an 11/730 CPU isn't that terrible > complicated. Given access to the microcode, I'd imagine it would be a > reasonable project to whip up an ersatz 11/730, validate that it works > correctly, then proceed to optimize and otherwise improve the design > (add in pipelining, test, add in FPU, test, add in cache, test, migrate > to faster FPGA family, test). Iterative, rather than shooting the moon > first run. Maybe. I think that there is probably a lot more logic outside the 2901 than inside... We're still talking several boards of logic here... I doubt all of that is microcode memory, 2901s and 74xx series stuff. :-) > You could even short-cut some of the FPGA work. I don't recall what > the microsequencer looks like on the 11/730, but if it's the usual > Am29{09,10,11}, there is at least one shop that still (as of at least > last year) makes an 8 x Am2901 + sequencer single chip ASIC that runs at > something like 20MHz. Or you can find NOS for the IDT 49c402 that is 4 > x Am2901s. > > This way of thinking won't result in the fastest VAX possible, but I > venture it has a better chance of resulting in an actual working VAX. It might be a possiblity. Not that I'll do it. But if someone really wanted this to happen, it's one possibility. Might be easier to talk with someone who still have an 11/730 running, to read his tapes though. > > Anyone want to take a crack at this? :-) > > Not me...:-) :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:27:23 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 10/25/2005 at 2:09 PM Allison wrote: > >>The 6116 is a great part and 4 of them are enough for a track level buffer >>and another 2 would provide adaquate code space. > >Dig into a junker external modem--the later V.32 ones have some very nice >SRAM chips in 64kx8 and 32Kx8 configurations. One chip and you're done >with RAM needs. > >Cheers, >Chuck Or a 386 or 486 mainboard. I have all my tiny(dip but .3 wide) cmos 8kx8, 32kx8 and larger that are real nice for this kind of stuff. Usually there will be a 27256 or 27C256 on those for 32k of easily programmed Eprom. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by henk.gooijen＠oce.com

Hi Jules, I have a design that worked - 20 years ago, with a 1793. It has a PLL-based data separator, using a 72LS629 and 2 4-bit counters, IIRC. I need to look it up. It was interfaced to 6809 bus signals, so changing it for 6502 is straight forward. I recently bought a few 1793 chips from BGMICRO, and then decided to make my design a lot simpler by using a 2793 as that FDC has a data separator integrated. With the correct clock cyrstal selection you can use the hardware for 3", 3.5", 5.25" _and_ 8" drives (under software control)! I am working on a 2793 which is piggy-back connected to the "Blinkenlight" Core Board which is based on the 6809E and has more than enough RAM and EPROM on board. But that's just a metter of how you write the software How to read the floppy. For instance, sector-wise or track-wise ! I started a webpage on this new project, see www.pdp-11.nl/ in the "my projects" folder. Vince still has Core Board kits (all parts included for $70), so the job is limited to the FDC part. (and the software ...) But it is a 6809E instead of the 6502, but that's a plus !!! Handling double density will become tricky with the 6502, and even with the 6809, because timing (read/write when DRQ is asserted) must be done by interrupt (FIRQ) or use the SYNC instruction. I am waiting on the arrival of my 2nd BGMICRO order that has the 2793 ... gd luck, - Henk, PA8PDP ________________________________ Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org namens Jules Richardson Verzonden: di 25-10-2005 20:14 Aan: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Onderwerp: Re: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... Chuck Guzis wrote: >>Intel's 8271 looks like a possibility at the moment, but I thought I'd >>poll the list for alternative ideas too. FM support is of course >>critical - MFM is less of an issue as the host PC can handle that. > > > The 8271 is a pile of worms. Don't even bother with it. :-) > In a DIP package, if you want to restrict yourself to 5.25/3.5" MFM and FM > (but not HD) formats, the WD 1770/1772 is a nice compact (28 pin) little I've certainly got 1770 chips lying around unused in the parts box... I think you've just put that at the top of the list :) > Why a floppy to support your device, though? There are many high-speed > interfaces available to choose from nowadays. Why not feed your device via > USB? Rationale: I'm interested in doing this in order to archive old floppies to modern media, and out of the 5 or so PCs I can lay my hands on at home, none are happy with FM data :-( Catweasel's ruled out on grounds of cost, lack of schematics, and the fact that it's an internal board anyway. I need an external box of tricks so that I can easily use it to do archival work both at home and at the museum (and potentially other locations too). I know the museum PCs have serial and parallel ports, but not all of them will have USB; plus I'm hoping to spend zero cash on this and just use parts lying around at home - I'll have various serial & parallel I/O chips but certainly no USB stuff! As an additional thought whilst writing this (admittedly not thought through yet!) serial might be nicer than parallel so that at some future date I can dump all of the necessary firmware onto the disk interface box's ROM and in theory just talk to it using a comms package from the PC host. Lots more work in terms of understanding the various download protocols to do it that way, and it means that the disk interface box needs to understand the resultant disk image format on the PC which I'm not sure I like... but it does mean that all the host PC needs is a serial port and some comms software (which is covered by pretty much any modern-ish PC OS on the planet) rather than any special application to drive the box. If serial's the standard interface though it'd be zero hardware changes to support this in the future - it just means being stuck with a slower serial protocol for disk image transfer, when parallel would be faster. And yeah, I think we've been over this on this list before... :-) cheers Jules This message and attachment(s) are intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or agent thereof responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone and with a "reply" message. Thank you for your cooperation.

20 years, 7 months

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ID: Memorex 3266?

by cheri-post＠web.de

> > picture: http://toresbe.at.ifi.uio.no/3266.jpeg > > This is a Fujitsu drive (not a 2444 but similar product line as > the 2444, maybe a 2436?) that Memorex relabeled. > > Most of the ones I dealt with were Pertec Formatted > (two 50-pin cables) and did 1600 and 6250. Some had > cache cards, some had outboard third-party Pertec Formatted > to SCSI converters. > > 2444's were especially popular with Sun VME systems. > > Tim. > These ARE relabeled Fujitsu drives, I'd suppose 2436 as well, Tim. I recognize the drives and their frontpanel as they were the same on the Unisys System 80, I tried to safe last year. The only difference: They were red, not blue. concerning the right number and the interface types: Can be looked up in 3 days. If the documents and schematics are needed, I wanted to scan them anyway. But it may take several months, as I'm in France and not in Germany currently. Regards, Pierre ______________________________________________________________ Verschicken Sie romantische, coole und witzige Bilder per SMS! Jetzt bei WEB.DE FreeMail: http://f.web.de/?mc=021193

20 years, 7 months

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FPGA VAX update

by ken＠seefried.com

From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> > I think I have the documentation for the microcode for > the different engines, and I also have the binary microcode > files... Do you have the microcode files for the 11/730? The Am2901 VHDL (and other formats) is freely availible and well understood and fits several to an FPGA (even small ones covered by free tools). The rest of the logic on an 11/730 CPU isn't that terrible complicated. Given access to the microcode, I'd imagine it would be a reasonable project to whip up an ersatz 11/730, validate that it works correctly, then proceed to optimize and otherwise improve the design (add in pipelining, test, add in FPU, test, add in cache, test, migrate to faster FPGA family, test). Iterative, rather than shooting the moon first run. You could even short-cut some of the FPGA work. I don't recall what the microsequencer looks like on the 11/730, but if it's the usual Am29{09,10,11}, there is at least one shop that still (as of at least last year) makes an 8 x Am2901 + sequencer single chip ASIC that runs at something like 20MHz. Or you can find NOS for the IDT 49c402 that is 4 x Am2901s. This way of thinking won't result in the fastest VAX possible, but I venture it has a better chance of resulting in an actual working VAX. > Anyone want to take a crack at this? :-) Not me...:-) Ken

20 years, 7 months

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ID: Memorex 3266?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

Chuck asked: >> picture: http://toresbe.at.ifi.uio.no/3266.jpeg > What's that big orange unit off to the right? It's upside-down, judging by the couple of characters visible :-). Tim.

20 years, 7 months

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Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... > From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:43:13 +0100 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: >>>Subject: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... >>> From: Jules Richardson <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk> >>> Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:28:35 +0100 >>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>> >>> >>>OK, I'm wanting to build a board with an 8 bit CPU (probably Z80, >>>possibly 6502) and a floppy controller IC on board with the intention of >>>hanging it off my PC (via serial or parallel, undecided yet) and >>>allowing me to read and write *most* formats from various 1980's 8 bit >>>micros... >>> >>>Intel's 8271 looks like a possibility at the moment, but I thought I'd >>>poll the list for alternative ideas too. FM support is of course >>>critical - MFM is less of an issue as the host PC can handle that. >> >> >> ick poo.. The 8271 was not widely used especially on 8bitters. If your >> serious then 1793 that was common as house flies and does most all soft >> formats. > >Ahh, not had experience of that one before (I don't think anyway). 177x >was pretty common in machines over here, and the 8271 gets used in a lot >of Acorn hardware which is why I'm used to it... the Acorn is one of the few that used it. The 8271 was rare here compared to 1771 and 1793. >> Seriously 32kbyte static ram chips are easy to get (JDR and other have them) >> and EEprom (small is 2k and 8k are easy to find). > >Well part of the plan is to raid the junk pile and at least put some of >it to use, which would likely mean a 2732 EPROM for on-board ROM and >6116 SRAM chips for memory - latter subject to power requirements and >board space though. I know I've got quite a few of them kicking around, >but they're physically large chips and not *that* big a capacity (8kbit >or 16kbit I think, going from my hazy memory...) The 6116 is a great part and 4 of them are enough for a track level buffer and another 2 would provide adaquate code space. >Of course I've got a boatload of various DRAM chips though, so if the >Z80 does provide pretty much all the refresh needed then maybe that's a >better bet. GO TO Gaby's site and look for Tim Olmstead DRAM article. It covers DRAM interface in the context of Z80 systems and is very complete. >> Another way to do this is a small S100 bus with 16k of ram, a rom card >> Z80 cpu card and a serial board with one each of: >> >> NS* MDSA-4(a common hard sector that one does SD and DD) >> Tarbel 1771 based card (SD and really off 1771 specific formats) >> CCS 1793 based soft sector card. (most all softsector formats) >> Compupro 765 based card (why not!) >> > >Ahh, thanks for that list. We've got a truckload of S100 hardware at the >museum, so there's definitely a possibility there - I'm just not sure >without checking what FDC cards we have. I don't know what spare ROM >boards we'll have either (my programmer won't do three-rail devices, so >I'd need a board that'd take slightly newer EPROMs...) Or enough eprom to boot over wire. Everytime I need a system to do xxzzy I find enough peices in the S100 spares bin to build it with minimal fuss. Simple enough, anything with WD1771 will do SD, 1791/93 does SD and DD and there were some cards with 765 (Compupro) that do SD/DD. The real key is documentation, however for the popular cards its wasy to docs on line. >> If you stick to static parts and 6502 or Z80 the whole thing should be >> simple. Parallel port (bidirectional) will be faster but serial is easier >> though slower. > >Agreed :) I can't see parallel being complex though; I guess there's >just handshaking protocol to design on top of hooking the chip itself up >(unless I got for individual ICs to do the parallel interface), but it >doesn't need to be anything complicated. It's really traffic management, who talks first and when. ;) >I've got a few weeks until I'm back in the UK, so it gives me something >to ponder over in the meantime though :) Good luck, Allison

20 years, 7 months

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Looking for an 8 bit FDC...

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Looking for an 8 bit FDC... > From: "Chuck Guzis" <cclist at sydex.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:46:34 -0700 > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On 10/25/2005 at 5:28 PM Jules Richardson wrote: > >>Intel's 8271 looks like a possibility at the moment, but I thought I'd >>poll the list for alternative ideas too. FM support is of course >>critical - MFM is less of an issue as the host PC can handle that. > >The 8271 is a pile of worms. Don't even bother with it. The 8271 was SD only as well. >In a DIP package, if you want to restrict yourself to 5.25/3.5" MFM and FM >(but not HD) formats, the WD 1770/1772 is a nice compact (28 pin) little >chip that includes motor control lines as well a decent data separator for >FM and MFM. The Atari ST used it. If you want something a bit more >elaborate, the WD 279x series will handle most of what you need to handle, >but in a 40 pin package. All are easy to program and have Z-80 friendly >signals. The 279X is a more integrated 1793 so thats a good choice too. Watch out for the 1770/72 as not all flavors of them will work at 8" data rates. >The NEC 765-based chips (National 8473/8477, WD 37C65, Intel 82077, etc. >(the list is very long)) are built for the PC market and, when viewed from >the aspect of reading the largest number of formats, are quite quirky. >Some will read FM, but not write FM; some will drop the first sector if the >IAM missing (many WD-based vintage computers didn't bother with it), few >support 128-byte MFM sectors, etc. etc. Some of the older chips require >that you supply your own data separator. Given the choice, I'd stay away >from them. The 765A was least integrated but with the right external support more flexible than the 37C65 and later. The data seperator was a fairly simple circuit and could be done with a counter or for improved results with a latch and prom. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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ID: Memorex 3266?

by tshoppa＠wmata.com

> picture: http://toresbe.at.ifi.uio.no/3266.jpeg This is a Fujitsu drive (not a 2444 but similar product line as the 2444, maybe a 2436?) that Memorex relabeled. Most of the ones I dealt with were Pertec Formatted (two 50-pin cables) and did 1600 and 6250. Some had cache cards, some had outboard third-party Pertec Formatted to SCSI converters. 2444's were especially popular with Sun VME systems. Tim.

20 years, 7 months

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ID: Memorex 3266?

by toresbe＠ifi.uio.no

Hey, I've come across a Memorex 3266 half-inch tape drive (well, actually several, but only one seems near to operable condition). picture: http://toresbe.at.ifi.uio.no/3266.jpeg Anyone recognize it and know what densities and interface(s) it used? Guesses are also appreciated ;) It's an autoloader, right? I've been googling, and also bitsavers has nothing on it. Grateful for any hints. -toresbe

20 years, 7 months

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Innovion PC info needed? Converting simms to dipps or Where do I find 1mx4 dipps?

by rmay635703＠aol.com

I have several old Innovion CASI Branded PCs computer photography PCs from the 80s (pictures here http://www.colortron.tk) I would like to expand the memory on several units to the full 4mb on the board, but I am finding it impossible to get 1mx4 20pin Dipp RAM chips. It would be nice if there were such a thing as a simm to dipp converter :) or sources of said chips. My other problem is with an old tektronix colorquick 4696 that works with my old photo systems. I need the dipp switch settings for it so I can get it to do a head clean (yes it has one) The printer is one of the old INK WELL type of printers and the heads clog easily, I ended up spraying the heads with distilled water and it worked for all of one copy. If you have a manual or dipp settings for this oldie it would be appreciated. Any ideas? Also on a side note I am looking for information, photos, really anything relating to the very old 1976 CASI / Innovion Apollo VPX Computer photo system. I have been trying to get one for years but everyone either tossed or sold their systems decades ago, the unit could take pictures and print them in B/W all with a whopping intel 8 bit processor. They were printed in 8pt text 14"x16". So your picture was ASCII ART!!!

20 years, 7 months

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help requested in Arkansas rescue

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: help requested in Arkansas rescue > From: "Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:21:16 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Allison" <ajp166 at bellatlantic.net> >To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:10 AM >Subject: Re: help requested in Arkansas rescue > > >> One good reason is that someday resources will appear to fully utilize it. >> That can also be read as keeping it from the scrap heap until such time. >> >> The other which is ugly is people storing and loosing to financial >> disaster or other physical disaster(weather, flood or fire) large amounts >> of hardware that end up as scrap. >> >> I've had to pass on gathering some hardware for lack of long term >supportable >> space and in other cases where I've collected more than I could sold off >excess >> so it would not be lost to the trash. I've also had hardware that I did >trash >> as likley of little to no value historically or as $$$ (mostly PCs of the >late >> XT clone and AT clones and the 386s). To me long term supportable space >for >> systems and board is stuff that can be accessed fairly easily and allows >actual >> test, repair and use. >> >> >> >> Allison > >Do you mean you save items at your own expense because someday some museum >might want it, or you intend to hit the lottery and move the machine to a >facility setup for it and other gems? None of the above though those are possible. It's more like I have a collection of systems and boards that are actively if only intermittently used. The key is functional and usable. the latter requires some space and local storage. >Personally anything with real historical value should be in a museum where >others can see it and learn about it. Most items that end up in a personal >collection that are not mainstream collectable just end up getting trashed >when that person dies or if lucky some other collector gets to hide it in >their warehouse away from view until they too die (or lose funding for the >storage). My evenual demise is provided for. As to historical, I have stuff I've used some since day one (Altair 8800 sn200 that no ware hear original) and some I've built. Most of the real history is lost just looking at it. It's what I did, why and how the equipment and I were invoved with various things. Same for the library of documentation tt's there to allow me to research, repair and occasionally relax with. >I have about all the machines I can setup and run without tripping over them >or using living space for their storage, although I need to rethink my >magazine and software storage methods. I'm at saturation. Occasionally I reorganize or mod a closet and get some space. >I guess the reason I replied to begin with is that while a Cray system does >sound cool in the geek sense (I picture circuit boards immersed in >fleuro-inert when I hear the name) I just don't see the average collector >having the time and resources to get it running and actually do something >with it. Once the cool factor wears out what are you getting out of having >the thing in storage? Thats a personal question I suspect. But with some machines its preserving the last known or one of the very few. PDP12s were never common and few are operable that do exist. Whos got a complete IBM360?? The Cray was only a few in existance and fewer remain. If your lucky enough to snag one and store it.. there's something special about the last one. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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Releasing OS/2

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Releasing OS/2 > From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:21:24 -0600 > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Allison wrote: > >>My original intent was limited to OSs that were operable on PCs. If >>there is OS/9 for PC then by all means but I'd suspect comparison would >>be to unix/linux rather than Dos/win. >> >> >> >Circuit Cellar had a Z8000 and on card for the PC once. Does anybody >remember >just what it ran? Other than 386's was there any other add on cards for >the PC? Cards to add other CPUs to PC are many. At any time there were: 8751 (multiples for Mandelbrot calulations) Z80 Other X86 Z8000 68000 16032 T-11 (PDP-11) All come to mind. Many had no OS as they relied on the host processor for support. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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help requested in Arkansas rescue

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: help requested in Arkansas rescue > From: "Teo Zenios" <teoz at neo.rr.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:43:50 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gordon JC Pearce" <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> >To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" ><cctalk at classiccmp.org> >Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:26 AM >Subject: Re: help requested in Arkansas rescue > > > >> Does the storage locker cost less than the equivalent amount of aggro >> from dragging a Cray home? How many peace offerings has it saved you? >> >> Gordon > >What would be the point of having the machine in a storage locker unpowered >and far enough away that you will rarely go there to look at it rust? One good reason is that someday resources will appear to fully utilize it. That can also be read as keeping it from the scrap heap until such time. The other which is ugly is people storing and loosing to financial disaster or other physical disaster(weather, flood or fire) large amounts of hardware that end up as scrap. I've had to pass on gathering some hardware for lack of long term supportable space and in other cases where I've collected more than I could sold off excess so it would not be lost to the trash. I've also had hardware that I did trash as likley of little to no value historically or as $$$ (mostly PCs of the late XT clone and AT clones and the 386s). To me long term supportable space for systems and board is stuff that can be accessed fairly easily and allows actual test, repair and use. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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Fan for DEC H7861 power supply?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Fan for DEC H7861 power supply? > From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.mv.com> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:57:54 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Okay, I'm stupid! I forgot to write down which direction the fan was >moving air when I removed the defective fan. It looks like the H7861 >has two fans one of which sucks air in and the other blows it out. Is >that correct? Or do they both suck air in? The one I'm replacing is >the one that is mounted at an angle. The one I haven't touched is >setup to suck air into the box. How should I mount the diagonal fan? >To suck air in or out? Same direction. Allison > >Thanks, >David > >On Oct 23, 2005, at 3:36 PM, Allison wrote: > >>> >>> Subject: Re: Fan for DEC H7861 power supply? >>> From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.mv.com> >>> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:55:07 -0400 >>> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" >>> <cctalk at classiccmp.org> >>> >>> I found a replacement fan for the H7861. It is the same size and same >>> wattage but it has only three blades instead of the five that the >>> original had. Is this likely to produce enough air flow to prevent >>> the system from frying itself? Or should I keep looking for a five >>> blade fan? >>> >>> >> >> I'd use it for testing and try to find the right one. >> >> >> Allison >>

20 years, 7 months

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help requested in Arkansas rescue

by jwest＠classiccmp.org

I had a rescue set up in northwest arkansas. Then the owner got in a car accident and was out of action for months. Now the family is working with me to finish off picking up the collection. But now that I'm talking to the family, they are telling me a far different story about the size of the collection. I was planning on going down this weekend to pick it up in a 14seat van (sans seats). However, I've just been informed that the computers and docs and such is approximately 7 foot tall by 10 foot by 12 foot. This is unlikely to fit, and I'm not sure I can do two trips (due to wifes surgery coming up, very soon I won't be able to go out for a few days for a few months). Of course, the family wants the stuff gone "now". Anyone able to help with pickup, storage, etc.? If so, please email me off-list. The collection is a very complete collection of most known home computers back to pre-dos IBM machines with all software & docs. Do I really even want this... *sigh* Kind regards, Jay West

20 years, 7 months

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11/782 (was: Any own an 11/725...?)

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > But the hardware I still keep around is much more interesting... :-) > > Sometime in the future, I wouldn't mind trying to put an 11/782 > together. Anyone know where I might be able to find some information > about the interconnect hardware? There basically isn't any (hardware, that is). The 11/782 was not an SMP design. It was two CPUs with shared memory, where one CPU acted as a slave to the other. All I/O was on the primary CPU as well. The second CPU was just a computing resource. I haven't (yet) found any references to any interconnect hardware apart >from the dual-ported memory boxes. Maybe someone else knows some more details? Appearantly, it wasn't much faster than a normal 11/780 either, so some of the machines appearantly got split up into two separate 11/780s instead. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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Fan for DEC H7861 power supply?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: Fan for DEC H7861 power supply? > From: David Betz <dbetz at xlisper.mv.com> > Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:55:07 -0400 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >I found a replacement fan for the H7861. It is the same size and same >wattage but it has only three blades instead of the five that the >original had. Is this likely to produce enough air flow to prevent >the system from frying itself? Or should I keep looking for a five >blade fan? > I'd use it for testing and try to find the right one. Allison

20 years, 7 months

4
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FPGA VAX update

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update > From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> > Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:38:27 +0200 (CEST) > To: cctalk at classiccmp.org > >On Tue, 25 Oct 2005, Ken Seefried <ken at seefried.com> wrote: > >> From: Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> >> > I think I have the documentation for the microcode for >> > the different engines, and I also have the binary microcode >> > files... >> >> Do you have the microcode files for the 11/730? > >Might still have the TU58 tapes around, yes. No TU58 drive to read them, >though. I must be thee rare one that maintaines TU58s for use. > >> The Am2901 VHDL (and other formats) is freely availible and well >> understood and fits several to an FPGA (even small ones covered by free >> tools). The rest of the logic on an 11/730 CPU isn't that terrible >> complicated. Given access to the microcode, I'd imagine it would be a >> reasonable project to whip up an ersatz 11/730, validate that it works >> correctly, then proceed to optimize and otherwise improve the design >> (add in pipelining, test, add in FPU, test, add in cache, test, migrate >> to faster FPGA family, test). Iterative, rather than shooting the moon >> first run. > >Maybe. I think that there is probably a lot more logic outside the 2901 >than inside... We're still talking several boards of logic here... I doubt >all of that is microcode memory, 2901s and 74xx series stuff. :-) Bet on it as the 2901 only provides 16 registers and I think VAX had more. It's also a slow device. >> You could even short-cut some of the FPGA work. I don't recall what >> the microsequencer looks like on the 11/730, but if it's the usual >> Am29{09,10,11}, there is at least one shop that still (as of at least >> last year) makes an 8 x Am2901 + sequencer single chip ASIC that runs at >> something like 20MHz. Or you can find NOS for the IDT 49c402 that is 4 >> x Am2901s. >> >> This way of thinking won't result in the fastest VAX possible, but I >> venture it has a better chance of resulting in an actual working VAX. > >It might be a possiblity. Not that I'll do it. But if someone really >wanted this to happen, it's one possibility. Might be easier to talk with >someone who still have an 11/730 running, to read his tapes though. Not I. I must ahve at least 16 2901C and 2911 and they are not that pretty without a lot of glue. More correctly, for some archetectures it's ugly and for some a very easy set of peices to use. The biggest problem is multiplexed external busses and that does impact design and speed. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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FPGA VAX update

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Brad Parker <brad at heeltoe.com> wrote: > it's good to fight the good fight, but in the end you'll need to fit > your design into either X or A's part (I'd pick X) and you'll need to > use their tools to do it, which mean you'll use widows if it's something > of a small/reasonable design or unix if it's bigger. No, fortunately I won't have to use Losedows. In the absolute worst case, i.e., if I can't find a free open source solution, and I can't convince anyone to let me have a pirate copy of their Xilinx Foundation CD, I would just have to fork over some $$$ for a legal copy of the full version and order one for, say, Solaris instead of Losedows and get a used SS5 just to run it. Still better than descending to Losedows. Or if I go the Altera route, I may be able to get a version of A's fucking Quartus for Linux/x86 through the company I currently consult for, and then pirate it. (I don't see how one can effectively enforce copyprotection under Linux.) > I like the idea of holding out for something that will work in the PD > but I'm not sure you can do that today. What we need to find out is whether that reverse-engineered project to generate Altera SOFs by open source means that my coworker told me about really exists or if he was hallucinating. This question was the main point of my original post and it still stands. > At some point you need to find > out if your design will "fit" into a particular part and you need to use > the right tool to find out. If the project I referred to in the previous paragraph exists, it would be the right tool. > We're talking "pre-synopsis" right now, but at some point you'll have to > graduate to "real tools". The REAL tools are the free-as-in-speech open source ones. > As you know, the size of your design dictates what tools you'll need to use. I don't see what does size have to do with it. If a tool can compile a traffic controller, it can compile a full CISC CPU. > I'm going to guess that an entire vax dictates a certain footprint. Aside from the issue of tools, the FPGA that seems to have the closest size and feature set to the needs of my current VAX project is the Cyclone II family from A. MS

20 years, 7 months

10
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FlashManager 2000

by kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com

Hi, group, I've been making some progress on getting this mysterious Intel PCMCIA FLASH card I've got to where I can read it. I've discovered, so far, that Intel sold their FLASH card business to another company some years ago (Centennial Technologies). Shortly after that, Centennial went up in a metaphorical ball of flames, and a company called Smart Modular Technology, based in Fremont, CA, bought them up. Up until a few years ago, SMT made available a free utility called 'Flash Manager 2000.' Said utility could read both Intel linear FLASH cards and Centennial's. I've been in contact with SMT, and they tell me that Flash Manager is "discontinued and no longer available," a position that strikes me as odd at best for what was a free utility. So... My search comes right back here. Does anyone happen to have a copy of Flash Manager? Still seeking... Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner & Head Hardware Heavy, Blue Feather Technologies -- http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech do/t c=o=m "If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped with surreal ports?"

20 years, 7 months

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Does anyone have a Radio Shack Electronics Learning Lab?

by john.miramonti＠hypertherm.com

Hi, I was your email regarding the Radio Shack Electronic LearningLab. I picked one up for my daughter, but it came without the manuals. I'm trying to get a copy. You mentioned "...The PDF file on the RS web site doesn't list things in enough detail...". I've been trying to download the PDF manual, but the upgraded web site apparently doesn't have it. Could you email me a copy? Or could I arrange to get a copy of your manuals? I could trade you a detailed list of components, with part numbers, catalog numbers, etc. Thanks, John Miramonti John.Miramonti at attglobal.net

20 years, 7 months

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Homebrew newsgroups / forums?

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Homebrew newsgroups / forums? > From: gtulloch at shaw.ca > Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:45:40 -0500 > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >Hi all: > >I'm building a Z80 based computer as a stepper motor controller, and it >would be nice if there was a homebrew newsgroup to ask questions on since >I don't think this is the group to do so - any recommendations? > >Yes, I know I'm 30 years behind the curve, and yes, I know a >microcontroller would save me some time, but where's the fun in that? > >Regards, > Gord Well the Z80 is still current. Still being made and used. However, to use it for stepper control is a lot of CPU for trivial task. With that aside, thre are plenty here that know the Z80 well. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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CCAG show postponed until Dec. 4

by news＠computercollector.com

Classic Computing & Gaming show was supposed to be this weekend but is postponed: http://www.ccagshow.com/ Is anyone planning to go? I could use a correspondent for the newsletter! Please contact me OFF-LIST if you're interested in writing about this event. ----------------------------------------- Evan Koblentz's personal homepage: http://www.snarc.net Computer Collector Newsletter: http://news.computercollector.com Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists & Museum: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/

20 years, 7 months

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FlashManager 2000

by r_a_feldman＠hotmail.com

Bruce, Take a look at http://www.teampctechnology.com/product_detail.php?id=298 and http://www.smartm.com/product/m_tech.cfm#1 for information that might be useful (though you might already know about the second company). There is a program called CardWizard 2000 (retail price $70) that might work for you, at http://www.systemsoft.com/l-2/l-3/products-cardwizard2000.htm Bob Message: 11 Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:51:33 -0700 From: "Bruce Lane" <kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com> Subject: FlashManager 2000 To: cctech at classiccmp.org Message-ID: <200510240651330626.11E2D64F at 192.168.42.129> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Hi, group, I've been making some progress on getting this mysterious Intel PCMCIA FLASH card I've got to where I can read it. I've discovered, so far, that Intel sold their FLASH card business to another company some years ago (Centennial Technologies). Shortly after that, Centennial went up in a metaphorical ball of flames, and a company called Smart Modular Technology, based in Fremont, CA, bought them up. Up until a few years ago, SMT made available a free utility called 'Flash Manager 2000.' Said utility could read both Intel linear FLASH cards and Centennial's. <snip>

20 years, 7 months

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Retrochallenge, 2005

by fireflyst＠earthlink.net

Do you add non-microprocessor systems to this list, such as MSI/SSI machines like the PDP 11/34? -----Original Message----- From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Wayne Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:49 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Retrochallenge, 2005 > Hmmm ... are you the same Ronald Wayne who was the third founder of > Apple and sold out for $800? No. That is an alias I used while signing up for gmail. I realised that it was a very silly alias when I signed up for this list. My name is Byron Desnoyers. Anyhow, I'll add processors when people suggest that they want to use it. The general rule of thumb is that some version the processor must have been introduced prior to March 1993. Processors like the 8085, 6809, and Z80 are dead simple to add (I just have to confirm what they are). I'm sure that some of you guys can throw much more difficult decisions my way too. On 6/14/05, Computer Collector Newsletter <news at computercollector.com> wrote: > Hmmm ... are you the same Ronald Wayne who was the third founder of > Apple and sold out for $800? > > -----Original Message----- > From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org > [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] > On Behalf Of Ronald Wayne > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:30 PM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: Re: Retrochallenge, 2005 > > Bah, don't let that serve as an excuse. All three of those processors > have been added to the list. > > On 6/14/05, John Hogerhuis <jhoger at gmail.com> wrote: > > Worse than that... the Z80, 8085, and 6809 (the first two of which I > > actually use on a daily basis) are not in the list of qualifying > > processors. > > > > -- John. > > > > > >

20 years, 7 months

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Front panels

by tpeters＠mixcom.com

I have some front panels laying about: http://www.mixweb.com/tpeters/pix/DEC/index.html There is a wicked pretense that one has been informed. But no such thing has truly occurred! A mere slogan, an empty litany. No arguments are heard, no evidence is weighed. It isn't news at all, only a source of amusement for idlers. --W. Gibson --... ...-- -.. . -. ----. --.- --.- -... tpeters at nospam.mixcom.com (remove "nospam") N9QQB (amateur radio) "HEY YOU" (loud shouting) WEB ADDRESS http//www.mixweb.com/tpeters 43? 7' 17.2" N by 88? 6' 28.9" W, Elevation 815', Grid Square EN53wc WAN/LAN/Telcom Analyst, Tech Writer, MCP, CCNA, Registered Linux User 385531

20 years, 7 months

1
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PDP-8 Discovery and Restoration

by phirkel＠sympatico.ca

Hi Folks. Being a student of Engineering at Carleton University, every day I walked by an old PDP-8 that was on display in the halls. However, over the years it got bashed up and abused, since there was nothing protecting it. Recently, I spoke to the chair of the department, and he (excitedly) agreed to provide me with space and the machine to restore, in hopes that the faculty could display it in its original glory (and even better if it is functional!). I started the restoration this past Thursday. It shall be one hell of a job to say the least. The machine was on display for close to 20 years, I figure, and as such took quite a beating. One of the parts in the worst condition is the bank of switches on the front. These were trashed by students walking by and playing around with them over the year. So, the statistics for switches: 7 Brown Switches irreparable 4 White Switches irreparable 6 Brown Switches reparable 5 White Switches reparable 2 White Switches are perfectly intact 1 Brown Switch is perfectly intact Also, unfortunately, certain flipchips (according to my schematics, anyways) are missing. The ADC option was installed, I know for sure, while the memory parity and power control stuff was not. At any rate, the first 11 flipchips from rows A and B on the processor side of things are missing in action. The following flipchips are missing: W501 R302 * 2 S603 R002 * 5 S111 * 9 R111 S603 * 2 S602 * 2 R405 * 2 S202 S203 * 2 S107 * 3 S151 R203 G209 * 3 R202 * 3 R503 The power supply unit for this machine has already blown in my face once, any advice on how to test/ensure that the PSU is functional? I'm keeping a log of my progress at http://www.cowpig.ca and would appreciate any feedback people offer and any suggestions people have over the course of the project. I'd really like to try to get this machine working. If anybody has any of the parts needed, and is willing to part with them, I would greatly appreciate it! Regards, Phil.

20 years, 7 months

2
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RX01 felt pad

by tradde＠excite.com

Anyone know how to replace the little felt pad on an RX01 floppy. It is the pad that is opposite the head to hold the floppy against the head. One of mine has come off, and without a dentist mirror thingy I can't see what holds it in place. Are these available still? _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!

20 years, 7 months

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Ringout on Overland Data TX-8/TX-16 cable?

by allanh-cctalk＠kallisti.com

Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote: > Does anyone have the wiring details for the Pertec-to-Overland Data > TX-8 or TX-16 cable used on OD's non-SCSI 9-track equipment? It's > got a D-sub 62-pin male connector on one end and two 50 conductor female > edge connectors on the other labeled P1 and P2. I rung one out, here is my documentation: The cable does not appear to contain twisted pairs, so which wire is used for which signal below is probably completely arbitrary. The wire assignment shown is from an Overland Data factory wired cable. The cable shield is connected to the D connector shell; the other end of the shield does not appear to contact anything. /* Sorted by Overland side */ 1 orange/red J1-a 2 brown/grey J1-Z 3 brown/violet J1-Y 4 yellow/red J1-X 5 violet/brown J1-W 6 grey/brown J1-V 7 black/white J1-U 8 green/black J1-T 9 black/green J1-S 10 green/red J1-R 11 black/orange J1-P 12 black/blue J1-N 13 violet/red J2-N 14 green/white J1-L 15 white/black J1-K 16 brown/yellow J2-K 17 red/green J1-F 18 blue/black J1-E 19 green/brown J1-D 20 orange/black J1-C 21 red/black J1-B 22 black/brown J2-Y 23 red/brown J2-X 24 white/grey J2-W 25 white/yellow J2-V 26 orange/white J2-U 27 white/red J2-T 28 orange/brown J2-S 29 grey/black J2-R 30 red/white J2-P 31 yellow/black J2-M 32 grey/red J2-L 33 black/yellow J2-J 34 white/blue J2-H 35 brown/black J2-F 36 orange/yellow J2-E 37 white/violet J2-D 38 white/brown J2-C 39 brown/red J2-B 40 violet/white J2-A 41 brown/orange J1-A 42 yellow/orange J2-2 43 red/orange J2-a 44 black/grey J2-Z 45 red/blue J2-b 46 red/grey J1-b 47 red/yellow J2-c 48 brown/white J1-c 49 green/orange J1-M 50 violet/black J2-1 51 blue/brown J2-24 52 orange/green J2-20 53 grey/white J2-16 54 yellow/white J2-13 55 white/orange J2-9 56 black/red J2-5 57 red/violet J1-24 58 yellow/brown J1-20 59 blue/white J1-16 60 black/violet J1-10 61 white/green J1-6 62 brown/green J1-2 nc nc J1-1 nc nc J1-11 nc nc J1-12 nc nc J1-13 nc nc J1-14 nc nc J1-15 nc nc J1-17 nc nc J1-18 nc nc J1-19 nc nc J1-21 nc nc J1-22 nc nc J1-23 nc nc J1-25 nc nc J1-3 nc nc J1-4 nc nc J1-5 nc nc J1-7 nc nc J1-8 nc nc J1-9 nc nc J1-H nc nc J1-J nc nc J2-10 nc nc J2-11 nc nc J2-12 nc nc J2-14 nc nc J2-15 nc nc J2-17 nc nc J2-18 nc nc J2-19 nc nc J2-21 nc nc J2-22 nc nc J2-23 nc nc J2-25 nc nc J2-3 nc nc J2-4 nc nc J2-6 nc nc J2-7 nc nc J2-8 /* sorted by Pertec side */ nc nc J1-1 62 brown/green J1-2 nc nc J1-3 nc nc J1-4 nc nc J1-5 61 white/green J1-6 nc nc J1-7 nc nc J1-8 nc nc J1-9 60 black/violet J1-10 nc nc J1-11 nc nc J1-12 nc nc J1-13 nc nc J1-14 nc nc J1-15 59 blue/white J1-16 nc nc J1-17 nc nc J1-18 nc nc J1-19 58 yellow/brown J1-20 nc nc J1-21 nc nc J1-22 nc nc J1-23 57 red/violet J1-24 nc nc J1-25 41 brown/orange J1-A 21 red/black J1-B 20 orange/black J1-C 19 green/brown J1-D 18 blue/black J1-E 17 red/green J1-F nc nc J1-H nc nc J1-J 15 white/black J1-K 14 green/white J1-L 49 green/orange J1-M 12 black/blue J1-N 11 black/orange J1-P 10 green/red J1-R 9 black/green J1-S 8 green/black J1-T 7 black/white J1-U 6 grey/brown J1-V 5 violet/brown J1-W 4 yellow/red J1-X 3 brown/violet J1-Y 2 brown/grey J1-Z 1 orange/red J1-a 46 red/grey J1-b 48 brown/white J1-c 50 violet/black J2-1 42 yellow/orange J2-2 nc nc J2-3 nc nc J2-4 56 black/red J2-5 nc nc J2-6 nc nc J2-7 nc nc J2-8 55 white/orange J2-9 nc nc J2-10 nc nc J2-11 nc nc J2-12 54 yellow/white J2-13 nc nc J2-14 nc nc J2-15 53 grey/white J2-16 nc nc J2-17 nc nc J2-18 nc nc J2-19 52 orange/green J2-20 nc nc J2-21 nc nc J2-22 nc nc J2-23 51 blue/brown J2-24 nc nc J2-25 40 violet/white J2-A 39 brown/red J2-B 38 white/brown J2-C 37 white/violet J2-D 36 orange/yellow J2-E 35 brown/black J2-F 34 white/blue J2-H 33 black/yellow J2-J 16 brown/yellow J2-K 32 grey/red J2-L 31 yellow/black J2-M 13 violet/red J2-N 30 red/white J2-P 29 grey/black J2-R 28 orange/brown J2-S 27 white/red J2-T 26 orange/white J2-U 25 white/yellow J2-V 24 white/grey J2-W 23 red/brown J2-X 22 black/brown J2-Y 44 black/grey J2-Z 43 red/orange J2-a 45 red/blue J2-b 47 red/yellow J2-c allan -- Allan N. Hessenflow allanh at kallisti.com

20 years, 7 months

3
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PDP-8/A front panel

by charlesmorris＠direcway.com

>From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> >What about switches for the front panel, that is a big expense too. There are 20 inexpensive tactile-feedback pushbuttons on the 8/A programmer's panel, not paddle switches. IIRC they were less than $1 each including the separate keytop. Vince would have the exact figure. >>The other major ticket item for this project is the front >>plate. Anyone know where we can get those done inexpensively? >What about a local machine shop? The front panel runs $90 in single quantities from Frontpanelexpress.com. (They get cheaper in quantity too). NO way a machinist with a Bridgeport would be able to do one for that! $90 would pay for 2 hrs labor (if you're lucky) and I think it would take far longer to do each one. Not even counting the engraved, color-filled legend at each LED and switch position. All of that is done by computer-controlled machine in minutes directly from the panel design software's output file. -Charles ps still looking for a bootable OS/8 RL02 pack for my 8/A, can anyone please help?

20 years, 7 months

4
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HP 9845 C with 280 option startup failure

by dwight＠ca2h0430.amd.com

>From: "Tequi Lizer" <tequilizer at gmx.net> > >I recently acquired a HP 9845C option 280 (was looking for it for a >really long time). > >The machine is in an overall good condition, however it hangs during >memory test ("MEMORY TEST IN PROGRESS"), even after cleaning all board >connectors, resocketing all ROMs & repeated control-stop's. Before >entering nirvana the printer outputs a couple of memory addresses. >Although lots of defects may be responsible, I assume there is a >combination of both a bad RAM chip and a ROM failure, since a RAM defect >alone should (?) not crash the system during the test. > >The printout looks like this: > >000000 100112 052525 >000000 110112 052525 >000000 120112 052525 >000000 130112 052525 ---snip--- Hi It looks like it is more likely that you are having a data bus buffer or address buffer issue than a massive RAM/ROM failure. You might look at things with a 'scope or logic analyser. Dwight

20 years, 7 months

1
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FPGA VAX update

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw at mesanet.com> wrote: > On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, Johnny Billquist wrote: > > > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw at mesanet.com> wrote: > > > >> Well since its pretty easy to get microcode to run at 75-100 MHz or so in > >> current cheap FPGAs, I'd say that 10 X a 780 should be trivial... > > > > I'd say that's wrong. Considering that the VAX8650 microcode engine runs > > at 68 MHz and manages about 7 times the 11/780, you're optimistic. > > The 8650 have a very large microcode word, actually have three (or was > > it four?) microcode engines running in parallell, and some very advanced > > cacheing and pipelining to speed it up to get even that far. > > > Not sure, but my guess is that a lot of that sophisticated caching and > pipelining was needed to get the microengine to run at that 68 MHz because of > the chip-chip delays in a large multi-chip design. The 8650 is all ECL, man. We're talking really fast gates here... > Current cheap FPGAs can manage 75-100 MHz with no pipelining. They can > also do 32 bit adds/subtracts in < 7 or so nS. I doubt if the 8650s hardware > could manage that. Would be interesting to know the average number of > microinstructions per macroinstruction on the 8650... It probably can do that. Without actually knowing, I would guess it requires much less than 7 ns for an add/substract. However, since we're talking about a pipelined machine here, you also have register copyback in the pipe, fp stuff, the memory management with page relocation, TLB cache, internal processor registers, and lots of other stuff going on. There is a lot of things to cover. And since you have several micromachines, register updates also needs to get duplicated to the other micromachines. I think I have the documentation for the microcode for the different engines, and I also have the binary microcode files... Anyone want to take a crack at this? :-) And of course, with a VAX, you have the bloody instruction fetch and decode stuff which really is a pain. Get first byte, figure out how many arguments it takes. Get the next byte and start parsing for the first argument, which might be a whole number of bytes, then continue with the next argument. Worst instructions take five arguments if I remember correctly. On Mon, 24 Oct 2005, woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote: > Johnny Billquist wrote: > > >I'd say that's wrong. Considering that the VAX8650 microcode engine runs > >at 68 MHz and manages about 7 times the 11/780, you're optimistic. > >The 8650 have a very large microcode word, actually have three (or was > >it four?) microcode engines running in parallell, and some very advanced > >cacheing and pipelining to speed it up to get even that far. > > > > > > > Also compared to a smaller machine -- remember you have floating point > stuff as well > as the basic instruction set. I forgot about that too. That is a fast > engine -- about 15 ns. Yeah, there are some reasons why I like the 86x0 series... They are quite brutal in their way... A number of patents DEC made on the 86x0 series (among others) were what the fight with Intel about the Pentium and patent infringement was about in the mid 90s. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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Any own an 11/725...?

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt at atarimuseum.com> wrote: > I know of one person on the list who owns such a beastie, I'm curious if > anyone else owns an 11/725 and would consider possibly selling/trading it? You'll probably hate me for telling that I threw an 11/730 away less than a year ago. But it was in Sweden, and I doubt anyone would want to pay for the shipping. But the hardware I still keep around is much more interesting... :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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FPGA VAX update

by ajp166＠bellatlantic.net

> >Subject: Re: FPGA VAX update > From: William Donzelli <aw288 at osfn.org> > Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:43:59 -0400 (EDT) > To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> > >> The 8650 is all ECL, man. We're talking really fast gates here... > >The 8650 was pretty slow for an ECL machine, as I think it was just >10K. That really is not a big step above something using 74ASxx series >technology. 100K, MECL III, 10G and 10E were the fast ECLs. > >William Donzelli >aw288 at osfn.org Yep, 86xx was ECL10k and a little of the early ECLx (early next generation). The 9000 was the ECL100K+ packaging. So an 86xx was still above 10nS for a full adder with lookahead. There is also something that came out of the RISC camp. The more stuff running in (hopefully) lockstep (multiple microengines) the more work on timing margins needs to be done. Critical paths for logic dominate and system speed will be slower. the MicroVAX-I was almost the other end of the spectrum. It was almost how much can be taken out and still be a creditable vax. That simplification was an important clue for the VAX on silicon (uV-II) as to hove much had to be there and how fast. I'd think if you simplify the 780 to eliminate the busses other than local ones and then implement using new tech the scalar result could be quite fast. However if the goal is to make a 780 with all the busses common to it for the IO and storage you'll end up with a more logic to implement the busses than the core CPU in hardware. One look at the microVAX series will show even though the cpu was reduced to trivial number of chips the total board space wraped around it was for busIO. the best contrast is the uVaxII (qbus) and the uVAX2000. They are close in performance (exact same CPU) but miles apart in power needed and chip count. This pattern occurs throughout the industry with just about every cpu that comes to mind. Allison

20 years, 7 months

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ASR32 available in NYC

by vcf＠siconic.com

Is anyone interested in a Teletype ASR32 with paper and paper tape? Unknown working condition but in decent physical condition. Comes with some rolls of printout paper and paper tape. Most likely pick-up only in NYC. I'll explain why if you're interested and you e-mail me. Asking price is $100 (might be negotiable). Please contact me off-list for details. P.S. Another ASR33 sold on eBay for $730(!) -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

20 years, 7 months

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PDP-8/A Front Panels

by Steven_R_Hutchins＠Raytheon.com

http://www.protoexpress.com/ I have used them for years. excellent product, great price, fast turn, small quantity OK |---------+-----------------------------> | | "vrs" | | | <vrs at msn.com> | | | Sent by: | | | cctech-bounces at cla| | | ssiccmp.org | | | | | | | | | 10/20/2005 02:19 | | | PM | | | Please respond to | | | "General | | | Discussion: | | | On-Topic Posts | | | Only" | | | | |---------+-----------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> | | cc: | | Subject: Re: PDP-8/A Front Panels | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| From: "steve" <gkicomputers at yahoo.com> > --- Vince Slyngstad <v.slyngstad at verizon.net> wrote: > > Charles Morris and I have been working to create an > > equivalent for the KC8A > > Nice, generally though the demand for something is > much greater if you actually have it ready to ship (in > case your preorder responses are low, don't get > discouraged). Thanks! > Looks like your front panel and parts cost are > constant with quantity, but your pc board drops > greatly with quantity. If I were you I would just > order 20 or so pc boards and let the buyers order the > parts and panel separately (as needed, some buyers may > not want the panel, others may already have most of > the parts). The problem with that is that it forces us to front hundreds of dollars, with no indication that we'll ever get it back. I already have boards sitting around from several projects, representing hundreds of dollars of investment on my part, that may never "sell" (even at cost). It is a lot better for us to have some idea of the demand, so we can mitigate how much "over-investment" we want to do. Though you are right, that if we found someone who would pick up the overhead cost of a board order ($200 each time), we would be way ahead. (Anyone know of a shop that can do a double-sided 16" board with solder mask and without a steep setup charge?) The other major ticket item for this project is the front plate. Anyone know where we can get those done inexpensively? Vince

20 years, 7 months

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FPGA VAX update

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw at mesanet.com> wrote: > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > Getting back to FPGA's, I know of a couple FPGA implementations of > > PDP-11's. (They are mostly KDJ11 clones, but they differ in a couple > > of tiny respects.) With extreme effort in the late 90's, they managed > > to make 4 FPGA's be about a factor of 2 factor on most benchmarks than > > a 11/93. And the PDP-11 is much easier to implement than a VAX. > > By the time the FPGA implementations made it to market the PC-based > > emulators were so much more cost-effective for most applications > > (despite their warts of running under a host OS...) > > > > I suspect that a FPGA implementation of a VAX would have a > > performance about equal to a 11/780 if done by an average Joe. > > Someone with much experience in caching/pipelining could probably > > eek out a factor of 2x or 3x by pulling out all the tricks in the > > book. > > > > Tim. > > > > Well since its pretty easy to get microcode to run at 75-100 MHz or so in > current cheap FPGAs, I'd say that 10 X a 780 should be trivial... I'd say that's wrong. Considering that the VAX8650 microcode engine runs at 68 MHz and manages about 7 times the 11/780, you're optimistic. The 8650 have a very large microcode word, actually have three (or was it four?) microcode engines running in parallell, and some very advanced cacheing and pipelining to speed it up to get even that far. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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FlashManager 2000

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> So... My search comes right back here. Does anyone happen to > have a copy of Flash Manager? Sorry for the multiple replies, but there are: >From http://www.smartm.com/product/m_tech.cfm a reference to: ftp://cust-ftp.smartm.com/Public/memcard.inf and From: http://www.magicram.com/FAQFlash.htm Q. Why won't my Linear Flash card work under Windows 2000? A. Linear Flash Cards do not come with drivers, it has always been the OS vendor's responsibility to include support for these devices. Unlike previous versions of Windows, the Flash drivers traditionally included on Windows distributions are not included with Windows 2000. The following information explains a work around to get Windows 2000 to recognize and use Linear Flash Cards. Be certain Windows 2000 has been upgraded with at least Service Pack 1 and the host hardware supports PC Cards. OEM installed Windows 2000 should not exhibit problems, but systems upgraded from older Windows versions may need confirmation that their hardware is compatible. Please note that MagicRAM provides this work around as a customer service and does not guarantee that will work with every system configuration. 1. During the Windows 2000 hardware setup process choose Display a list of known drivers... instead of Search for a suitable driver... 2. Select the category Memory technology driver 3. Select the M-Systems DiskOnChip2000 driver from listed manufacturer M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers 4. Click Yes on the Update Driver Warning message, continue and click Finish to complete the setup process, click No from the restart Windows message 5. Access the Device Manager and highlight M-Systems DiskOnChip2000 from the category Memory technology driver (it has the conflict symbol) 6. Access the M-Systems DiskOnChip2000 and click Update Driver from the Driver tab 7. Choose Display a list of known drivers... instead of Search for a suitable driver... when the options appear 8. You should now have more default driver options, select the Centennial PCMCIA Memory Card driver from listed manufacturer Centennial Technologies, Inc. (other drivers may work, but the Centennial driver was used successfully in testing) 9. Click Yes on the Update Driver Warning message, continue and click Finish to complete the setup process, click Ok from the properties window then Yes >from the restart Windows message 10. When Windows restarts, you should see a new drive letter and icon from "My Computer" or Windows Explorer

20 years, 7 months

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FlashManager 2000

by kelly＠catcorner.org

> So... My search comes right back here. Does anyone happen to > have a copy of Flash Manager? > Not a lot of help, but see: http://www.systemsoft.com/l-2/l-3/20010320_fm.htm Kelly

20 years, 7 months

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installing new ethernet address equipment with VMS 6.1

by Rinaldo.Eversdijk＠stork.com

Does anyone know how to install, on a alpha computer (DEC3000) running with VMS version 6.1 software, the same equipment with a new Ethernet address? Gr. Rinaldo -------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any attachment(s) sent with it are intended exclusively for the addressee(s), and may not be used by, opened by, passed on to, or made available for use to, any person other than the addressee(s). Stork rules out any and all liabilities resulting from any electronic transmission.

20 years, 7 months

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Unibus SCSI (was: Any own an 11/725...?)

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote: > > If anyone has a spare RC25 cart or two, I wouldn't mind picking one > > up... it's likely to be cheaper than a Unibus SCSI interface. ;-) > > Is there such a thing as a Unibus SCSI? Certainly. Several actually. CMD made the CMD 720/722, which was both disk and tape. Very good controller. I have one. Viking made a controller, and I believe Emulex also made one. There were probably one or two other manufacturers as well. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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Wondering which OS to use (PDP-8/A)

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, "Martin Bishop" <mjd.NO.bishop.SPAM at iee.org> wrote: > QUOTE The 8/A cannot have an EAE UNQUOTE > > Don't think this is correct. Because, such a machine would have no serious > (integer) arithmetic capability. Speaking of integer arithmetic capability: the 8/A systems where you wanted better numeric crunch were expected to be fitted with the FPP8A, which can do both integer and FP stuff, and does it much better. (One of the options I'd like to find to play with, but haven't...) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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Wondering which OS to use (PDP-8/A)

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005, "Martin Bishop" <mjd.NO.bishop.SPAM at iee.org> wrote: > QUOTE The 8/A cannot have an EAE UNQUOTE > > Don't think this is correct. Because, such a machine would have no serious > (integer) arithmetic capability. Also, the PDP 8/A Minicomputer Handbook > 1976/77 has a lengthy section [pp9-56 .. 9-65] on the KE8-E (Extended > Arithmetic Element : EAE). However, the "PDP-8 Summary of Models and > Options" (posted by Doug Jones) indicates that the EAE can be fitted iff the > PDP-8/E CPU boardset is fitted. That is PDP-8/A models 600/620 were fitted > with the KK8E CPU and optionally the 8/E EAE. And, I imagine "field > specials" were doubtless built. > > Another wrinkle; correction invited. As I said, some 8/A systems were fitted with 8/E CPUs. It's actually almost on the verge of terminology confusion. I should probably have written explicitly that it's the KK8A that cannot have an EAE, while the KK8E can. However, there are no "field specials". The KK8A simply cannot have an EAE. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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Any own an 11/725...?

by bqt＠Update.UU.SE

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/23/05, Johnny Billquist <bqt at update.uu.se> wrote: > > You'll probably hate me for telling that I threw an 11/730 away less than > > a year ago. > > But it was in Sweden, and I doubt anyone would want to pay for the > > shipping. > > I would have been happy to pay shipping for the CPU boards. I might have those still around (hate to throw things). Let me check... Oh, and remind me in a week or three. ;-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt at update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

20 years, 7 months

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test-drb October 2005